JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Daniel on May 16, 2007, 02:01:44 PM
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Chaim isn't a member of the forum.
However, he's the head of JTF .
Yakov respects Chaim's decision, and he should.
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In fact, Yakov and the chief administrators can conceivable choose to ban Chaim if they see fit.
Hello Daniel, and good day to you.
Your statement above is inane. The JTF forum is hosted by the JTF website, therefore anything that contradicts or opposes the stated goals of this organization should be deal with accordingly because it will, via implication, be linked to JTF whether accurate or not. The admins and moderators here are volunteers, and the weird idea that Chaim Ben Pesach can be banned if "we see fit" is so far beyond the pale, I question if you actually considered what you wrote before you posted it.
Chaim entrusts us to maintain a level of integrity and respect on this forum. Whether or not he is an active member here with a title is downright irrelevant.
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it say's lisa is head of this forum whoever she is.
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I find it very interesting that Chaim states who should be banned from the forum and in addition states that if any moderator unbans this person that this moderator should be banned from the forum as well. While Chaim is the head of JTF, he is not in charge of running the JTF forum. The chief administrators are in charge of running the forum and for making these types of decisions. Chaim can make recommendations as to what should and should not take place here. But he is in no position to dictate what goes on here. If he wants to have the power to make these decisions, then let him become an administrator as well.
If hypothetically, Yakov and Chaim disagree on whether or not to ban a particular member of the forum, it would be Yakov that would trump over Chaim since Yakov is the creator and chief administrator of this forum and Chaim is not. In fact, Yakov and the chief administrators can conceivable choose to ban Chaim if they see fit.
While I believe that Chaim should have a lot of input and advice as to what goes on here, he should not be one who should dictate as to what goes on here. Those decisions should be made solely by the administrators.
I realize that what I'm saying here is probably very provocative and controversial and that I might even run the risk of being banned for this. But if that be the case, then let the administrators ban me and not Chaim.
Daniel
Daniel I have to disagree wtih you. Although this is a jtf forum..it named under the very group the Chaim is running...IN other words this forum is in a way in his name. If someone is on this forum ruining jtf's name, then Chaim has a right to his opinion and he should be listened to in these situations. No point in ruining the cause he believes in...otherwise, he will disassociate himself from this very group.
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it say's lisa is head of this forum whoever she is.
You know who lisa is, you ask her to move your posts every week. you are a troll.
And Yacov is in charge.
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oh
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im confusd now whats the difrence between what you and lisa do, say's ;isa is the moderator in the forun here.
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ok thank's for expleining
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In fact, Yakov and the chief administrators can conceivable choose to ban Chaim if they see fit.
Hello Daniel, and good day to you.
Your statement above is inane. The JTF forum is hosted by the JTF website, therefore anything that contradicts or opposes the stated goals of this organization should be deal with accordingly because it will, via implication, be linked to JTF whether accurate or not. The admins and moderators here are volunteers, and the weird idea that Chaim Ben Pesach can be banned if "we see fit" is so far beyond the pale, I question if you actually considered what you wrote before you posted it.
Chaim entrusts us to maintain a level of integrity and respect on this forum. Whether or not he is an active member here with a title is downright irrelevant.
I totally agree. Chaim is also the most qualified to make final decisions, I mean he's been to prison for fighting this fight!!
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So if Ann Coulter doesn't like a person on her forum, but doesn't physically run the forum herself, that she can't ban a poster or admin? Get real, will ya?
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If Ann Coulter paid for that forum's hosting, then she would have a say as to whom should be banned.
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If Ann Coulter paid for that forum's hosting, then she would have a say as to whom should be banned.
out of curiosity, who pays for JTF's?
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So it's only fair that Chaim has the final say, correct, Daniel?
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This is CHAIM's forum and CHAIM's organization. If Chaim asks Yacov to ban somebody, he better do it regardless of his own views or JTF members' opinions. In this case, he did exactly what he should after Chaim made his decision.
Daniel, you are a troll, plain and simple, and you might be in danger of a ban yourself.
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Chaimfan has a good eye for trolls.
what a stupid post from Daniel.
I'd support a ban.
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I find it very interesting that Chaim states who should be banned from the forum and in addition states that if any moderator unbans this person that this moderator should be banned from the forum as well. While Chaim is the head of JTF, he is not in charge of running the JTF forum. The chief administrators are in charge of running the forum and for making these types of decisions. Chaim can make recommendations as to what should and should not take place here. But he is in no position to dictate what goes on here. If he wants to have the power to make these decisions, then let him become an administrator as well.
If hypothetically, Yakov and Chaim disagree on whether or not to ban a particular member of the forum, it would be Yakov that would trump over Chaim since Yakov is the creator and chief administrator of this forum and Chaim is not. In fact, Yakov and the chief administrators can conceivable choose to ban Chaim if they see fit.
While I believe that Chaim should have a lot of input and advice as to what goes on here, he should not be one who should dictate as to what goes on here. Those decisions should be made solely by the administrators.
I realize that what I'm saying here is probably very provocative and controversial and that I might even run the risk of being banned for this. But if that be the case, then let the administrators ban me and not Chaim.
Daniel
Chaim = JTF what part of that equation don't you understand. This forum is hosted by JTF to advance JTF's interests. Chaim really seems to have a hands off policy for the most part however when something that is taking place on JTF Forum might be problematic to JTF.org Chaim has every right to step in. I think the more serious members of the forum understand this.
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JTF is not a cult. People can disagree with Chaim. He's not a rebbe.
Agreed, I have heard Chaim say this many times himself. What I am saying is Chaim should have the final word on important decisions.
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This forum is not "owned" by any one person, administrator, or moderator. It belongs to all of us. Chaim is the head of JTF, it's his web site, and his decisions are final.
I don't think this is hard to understand. Why are you all so concerned about this? What brought this on? Is there some decision that Chaim made that you disagree with?
What is your real motivation for this thread? Its appears very divisive to me.
If you spent the same amount of time trying to help build this forum into a mass movement that you do arguing over who controls the forum and who you wish controlled the forum, then we'd already be at our goal. I think a healthy look at priorities is in order. I am just in shock at the divisive dribble in this thread.
Why are you here, if it's not to help JTF become a mass movement?
Some are here because they are just hateful and insecure, old fashioned racists and have NEVER even posted on the "Save Israel" topic. They just love saying words like [censored] and beaner because they are ignorant and hateful... reminds me of Beavis and Butthead. It's that mentality. They would be happy if everyone who wasn't the same color as they are were killed (remind you of the muslims?). Sounds like a version of nazi that likes white Jews... I guess that's why "StørmFrønt" keeps coming up and some people have a history there. These people should be embarrassed.
Some people are here because they are entertained by idiots who proclaim dirty and insane ideas. These people just want to make fun of others so they don't have to feel so bad about themselves. I think that's what that filth Jerry Springer was for. These same people love to cause trouble because they aren't interested in JTF's goal. They are selfish and want a quick laugh... life is just a funny joke to these people. These people are idiots and will never amount to much.
Some people in here are just mad at the world and want someone to yell at or become trolls who misspell the word "college" and claim they are in a gay school. These folks would do better with anger management classes. They ask terrible questions and I'm not really sure why we tolerate them or why others defend them. They are here, simply, to make fun of us and undermine the cause. They love using the f-bomb and tearing down other posters who have done nothing wrong to them. They can't debate because their mind is too simple. They just want to feel control because the bottom line is, they can't control themselves and it makes them feel weak.
Then there's the group in here that we NEED. This group of people help JTF. They rate the YouTube videos. They give rational debates that are well thought out. They are respectful but stand up to scum when they need to. These people... these are who we need to be!
So we can look at this two ways... are you actually going to HELP JTF? Or are you going to be one of the obstacles we have to overcome in order to achieve our goals?
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Yacov, with all due respect, Dominater was flaming Chaim and he uses a screenname on another forum that is extremely similar to one used by a StørmFrønt member. Maybe I jumped to conclusions, but I don't see how that one was beyond all comprehension. In any event, Chaim accepted his apology and I dropped the matter.
How in the world is it unreasonable for me to call a user whose posts always belittle Chaim a troll?
Edit: My theory about an alliance between some members of StørmFrønt and Revava isn't unreasonable either considering the flamings from members of those forums was totally simultaneous.
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So I'm a troll now, eh? I guess we should take a poll on who thinks I should be banned now.
I want to clarify that my intent is not to be divisive or create a divisive situation. I just think that with any group or organization, the members have a right to state their opinions and offer criticism to their leaders if and when it is questionable whether or not they are overstepping their bounds. That's the truest sense of democracy. I'm just merely making a point and posing a question. That's all.
In regards to my statement of banning Chaim, that was just a hypothetical. I realized after I posted, I should have writted "G-d forbid" next to it. This would never happen, G-d forbid! At least I hope not! I apologize if I offended anyone or caused a misunderstanding on my part.
I never said you were a troll and we aren't banning you. I agree that you have a right to state your opinion. And others (myself included) have a right to respond.
Democracy is good for the US but isn't what G-d intended for Israel in the Bible.
I understand what you are saying... you are just trying to bring up a point for debate and it's not necessarily how you perceive things to be.
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So I'm a troll now, eh? I guess we should take a poll on who thinks I should be banned now.
I want to clarify that my intent is not to be divisive or create a divisive situation. I just think that with any group or organization, the members have a right to state their opinions and offer criticism to their leaders if and when it is questionable whether or not they are overstepping their bounds. That's the truest sense of democracy. I'm just merely making a point and posing a question. That's all.
In regards to my statement of banning Chaim, that was just a hypothetical. I realized after I posted, I should have writted "G-d forbid" next to it. This would never happen, G-d forbid! At least I hope not! I apologize if I offended anyone or caused a misunderstanding on my part.
Overstepping his bounds ???? That's funny.
Good leaders know how to delegate.
They also know how to oversee and step in when appropriate.
I believe that is what Chaim does.
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I think you are trolling. :o
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Re: "...That's the truest sense of democracy..."
Judaism is not democracy.
Especially Kahanist Judaism.
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Re: "...That's the truest sense of democracy..."
Judaism is not democracy.
Especially Kahanist Judaism.
When the Kahanists take over, it will be interesting to see the reaction of American Jewry.
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Democracy is good for the US but isn't what G-d intended for Israel in the Bible.
Jeff, I could not disagree more. I do not believe there should be a double standard between the Jewish state and right-wing white Western states. Democracy has dragged down every single country that's instituted it, starting with ancient Greece. We all know the Sodom ancient Greece became. Yeah, pretty much like America today.
The founding fathers were extremely noble men and saintly, but their ideals became corrupted beyond recognition in a couple generations. We deserve the same kind of government Israel will get, or at least along those lines.
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I think Daniel is a troll and tonicali is a shmuck. Of course Chaim has the final say around here. Why the hell would it be any way else? Maybe we should let Daniel make the decisions around here instead of Chaim because that is what he prob wants.
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You're entitled to your opinion, Daniel. Of course, you are not going to be banned for expressing your view. You certainly can criticize Chaim if you wish. We all see every week that about 50% of the questioners on the Ask JTF program disagree with Chaim on one thing or another. Chaim answers them respectfully even if he happens to disagree with something they have said.
But in my opinion, what you are saying is factually incorrect and logically flawed.
This forum is ten months old. Chaim has VERY RARELY intervened. He has trusted Yacov and myself and the other members here to make 99% of the decisions.
Only recently, Chaim felt that he had to intervene.
When you have a member calling for the murder of white women and Christians, that is something Chaim is not going to tolerate. Chaim was surprised, and even shocked, that this was allowed to continue. When Jeffguy finally took appropriate action, Jeffguy's decision was reversed and this sick member was invited back. Is Chaim supposed to be silent when the forum allows someone who repeatedly calls for mass murder against innocent people to post messages?
In another incident, Chaim repeatedly requested that there be a clear message in the beginning of the Ask JTF threads limiting the number of questions or comments, and requested that it be made clear that the questions or comments must be short. Surely, Daniel, you are not going to dispute that Chaim has a right to set the ground rules for the broadcast that he does. Chaim believes, and I believe, that the long questions and the multiplicity of questions, harm the program by making it too long. And when Chaim has to spend so much time reading the questions, it's frankly not the most interesting part of the program.
But Chaim's requests were simply ignored for at least two weeks in a row.
Then came the posting on the forum of two members' IPs. Ever since I worked with Chaim in JDL in the 1980s, Chaim has always been a zealous defender of members' privacy. Even if someone violates the rules and has to be banned, Chaim would not want his IP or his personal information revealed.
All of these incidents have led Chaim to the conclusion that changes have to be made. Chaim ran the JDL very professionally, Chaim does at least 10 broadcasts a week professionally, and Chaim wants the JTF forum to be run professionally. The Hebrew forum IS being run very professionally, thank G-d. But the English forum requires some improvements.
After all, we're not just here to chat. We aspire to become a mass movement that will change history.
We will never be perfect. There will always be flaws here and there. But there is no reason why we cannot have the same high standards that exist on the Hebrew forum. In fact, 90% of the members on the Hebrew forum are teenagers. Can't we have the same sense of idealism, common purpose and commitment to professionalism that JTF's Israeli teenage members have? Of course we can! And with G-d's help, we will.
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I find it very interesting that Chaim states who should be banned from the forum and in addition states that if any moderator unbans this person that this moderator should be banned from the forum as well. While Chaim is the head of JTF, he is not in charge of running the JTF forum. The chief administrators are in charge of running the forum and for making these types of decisions. Chaim can make recommendations as to what should and should not take place here. But he is in no position to dictate what goes on here. If he wants to have the power to make these decisions, then let him become an administrator as well.
Chaim specifically stated in his introduction to the current Ask JTF program that, 'I don't want people like that on any forum that I'm associated with', meaning that he will not endorse this forum unless certain expectations are addressed. The sole fact that Chaim hosts this forum on his server, let alone the many other factors surrounding him such as his seniority, experience and history within the Kahanist movement as a whole, qualifies Chaim as the ultimate Authority over this forum's direction. Proper respect must be given to Chaim's wishes.
Oh, and Admins/Mods, please pull the chain on this 'tonycali' turd and send him back into the sewers whence he came.
Respectfully,
Widlar.
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Chaim's requests were simply ignored for at least two weeks in a row.
Not by everyone.
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In another incident, Chaim repeatedly requested that there be a clear message in the beginning of the Ask JTF threads limiting the number of questions or comments, and requested that it be made clear that the questions or comments must be short. Surely, Daniel, you are not going to dispute that Chaim has a right to set the ground rules for the broadcast that he does. Chaim believes, and I believe, that the long questions and the multiplicity of questions, harm the program by making it too long. And when Chaim has to spend so much time reading the questions, it's frankly not the most interesting part of the program.
On this, I completely agree and do the best I can to make my questions as brief as possible. I think Chaim has every right to set the ground rules for the Ask JTF forum, especially since much of it is Ask Chaim ben Pesach. I was referring more to the rest of the forum. On a personal note, I must say that you write and express yourself extremely well and I am very impressed! I think you're a model example of how we should all strive to express ourselves!
Yacov, you are very level headed and diplomatic and I appreciate that. Keep it up as well as all the great work you do.
The rest of you, you're entitled to your opinions and of course, I expected that this would create sparks and I would receive criticism for this. That's fine, I can accept that. I just take exception to the ad hominum attacks. Many great thinkers, Rabbi Kahane included, so eloquently stated that, "those who can't debate, defame!" I'm not sure what a troll or "trolling" is supposed to mean. I don't think I'm harassing any billy goats now ;) I'm just reminded of a forum I was on a couple of years ago where a lot of members spewed out so much vicious anti-zionism. But the worst part about them was that they constantly called me a "violent racist" and a bunch of other horrible names. My constant complaint and request to them was, "attack my arguments, don't attack and name call me!" So I express that same sentiment here.
Peace out!
Daniel
It's pretty darn hypocritical of you to put forth some really outlandish rubbish and then act offended when people justifiably lash out. A good number of responses, however, were substantive and I do not see you addressing them. Instead, you fall back on the defense mechanism of "those who cannot debate...defame." Do us all a favor and come back when you are more mature.
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Daniel, you can't save your arse now by pretending to play the reasoned moderate. Your goose is cooked.
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Daniel, you can't save your arse now by pretending to play the reasoned moderate. Your goose is cooked.
No attacks on other posters.
Doesn't really seem like an attack - sounds more like stating an opinion- but that's just my opinion.
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Chaimfan is banned anyway.
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Daniel, you can't save your arse now by pretending to play the reasoned moderate. Your goose is cooked.
No attacks on other posters.
That's not an attack, Yacov. Chaimfan is merely commenting on Daniel's method of argument.
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Lets all remember we are on the same side, we can disagree on specific points without letting it become personal. We should all calm down, and accept we are all human and we will make mistakes.