JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: eb22 on June 27, 2010, 12:25:24 PM
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On my recent trip to Israel, one thing that stood out was something that I totally didn't expect: a multitude of stray cats. This was especially noticeable in the " Old City " of Jerusalem, where I was staying for several nights. These cats were undersized from a weight standpoint.
My questions are has anyone else who either lives in Israel or has visited Israel noticed the numerous amount of stray cats?
And is there a reason why Israel has so many more stray cats per square mile than the United States and Canada?
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Yep, they're everywhere.
I think it's from when the British brought them to the middle east or something like that. I don't remember what the story was with all the cats.
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Get them out
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Aish.com had a article on cats recently..
http://www.aish.com/jl/heb/s/92163084.html
The most popular pet in the world.
The master of the house – and the alley – is the cat ( chatul). Cats are the most popular pet in the world ( chayat machmad). Traditionally, historians have thought that ancient Egypt was the site of cat domestication, due to the clear depictions of house cats in Egyptian paintings about 3,600 years old.
Unlike many animals, the cat's language seems to be universal and all cats have the same meow ( ). In Israel you can see cats everywhere in every street, on fences, in garbage cans, or next to any possible food supply. Legend is that in the 1930s, the British brought cats to the Holy Land to control the rat population; that was solved and now Israel’s cities have a preponderance of wild cats.
Many cultures have negative superstitions about cats. An example would be the belief that a black cat "crossing your path" leads to bad luck. Believing in this would be a violation of the Torah commandment not to ascribe power to omens (Leviticus 19:26).
Cats are mentioned fondly in the Talmud. Our Sages of Blessed Memory ( ) refer to cats as an example of modesty, for the way they cover their droppings:
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Wow. I didn't know Israel had that many stray cats. But I do there are a lot of stray Arabs there.
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What is to be done about this problem? As Jews we are not supposed to neuter male animals [I am not sure about spaying females]. If we feed all the cats they will only breed more and cause an even greater tragedy in the long run. Any ideas?
My male cat was neutered before I adopted him. Same with my female cat.
(http://www.freewebs.com/zionist4israel/IDF%20AND%20CAT.jpg)
One of my favorite pics.
(http://williamthecoroner.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/idf_soldier_and_kittyimage21.jpg)
Another cat joins the IDF!
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I have taken care of up to 10 cats in my house... At this time I have only 2 left...
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It is interesting that the Bible does not even mention about Cats once!
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It is interesting that the Bible does not even mention about Cats once!
Well it mentions the Lion... And cats are related to lions.. The Talmud mentions Cats, as the Aish article points out..
The Lion is the symbol of the Tribe of Judah, thus the Judah Lion...
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/Jerusalem-coat-of-arms.svg/150px-Jerusalem-coat-of-arms.svg.png)
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The cats to Israelis are like the rats and mice to us here. Back in the 80's and 90's there were probably a ton more until the Thai workers were hired temporarily to work. And sure enough the cat population went down...the rest you can figure out. no need for me to say more than that.
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Why don't Israelis like cats?
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Why don't Israelis like cats?
Why do you like cats?
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Why does everybody in this thread hate cats? It's not their fault that they have been forced to live like cucarachas in the Holy Land.
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Why does everybody in this thread hate cats?
cause the're so ugly and cute
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Who hates cats? They should be discommunicated...
;D
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Why does everybody in this thread hate cats?
cause the're so ugly and cute
Ugly and cute? I think most cats are beautiful.
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This looks like one of my cute cats:
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/28/43878072_9b440a24af.jpg)
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Why does everybody in this thread hate cats?
cause the're so ugly and cute
Ugly and cute? I think most cats are beautiful.
(http://www.theguzzlersrock.com/images/ugly%20cat3.jpg)
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Why does everybody in this thread hate cats?
cause the're so ugly and cute
Ugly and cute? I think most cats are beautiful.
(http://www.theguzzlersrock.com/images/ugly%20cat3.jpg)
Whoah! Please tell me you didn't put your cat in the microwave? Chas VeShalom!
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Talking about an ugly cat:
(http://www.2funnycats.com/files/media/Damn-Ugly-Cat_0.jpg)
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(http://tracksuitceo.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/worlds-ugliest-cat.jpg)
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Sexy thing isn't it ^^^^
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Talking about an ugly cat:
(http://www.2funnycats.com/files/media/Damn-Ugly-Cat_0.jpg)
Ewww those are ugly kitties.
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Why does everybody in this thread hate cats?
cause the're so ugly and cute
Ugly and cute? I think most cats are beautiful.
(http://www.theguzzlersrock.com/images/ugly%20cat3.jpg)
Whoah! Please tell me you didn't put your cat in the microwave? Chas VeShalom!
That cat reminds me of those spongemonkeys from the old Quizno's commericals
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Sexy thing isn't it ^^^^
oy oy oy
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(http://onecatmainecoon.com/images/cat-kitten-with-silly-hat-dancing-animated-1-DHD.gif)
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I bet you that most cats in Israel have a better grasp of how to deal with the Arabs than most Jews.
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I bet you that most cats in Israel have a better grasp of how to deal with the Arabs than most Jews.
Well I rather have a million cats in Israel than one Arab.
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This looks like one of my cute cats:
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/28/43878072_9b440a24af.jpg)
That cat looks kinda like my cat, Frankie. She weighs 4.5 pounds in these pictures. She has beefed up to a whopping 6 pounds now. She insists on sleeping on me every night.
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs263.ash1/19073_103585049667269_100000473245992_95304_892020_n.jpg)
(http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs183.snc3/19073_103585043000603_100000473245992_95303_3951049_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs183.snc3/19073_103585039667270_100000473245992_95302_5405726_n.jpg)
[The buddha statue belonged to my roommate, and no longer inhabits our home.]
And this is Thorberg. He is hard to photograph because he has black fur. We consider him to be a small dog. He is a beast!
(http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs183.snc3/19073_103951276297313_100000473245992_106094_3855505_n.jpg)
Here is his birthday present; catnip and a giant scratch post. He turned 4.
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs521.ash1/30680_120025341356573_100000473245992_243519_8113436_n.jpg)
This is Jamie, my roommates cat. She is a Nebalung, so she is extra fancy.
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs163.snc3/19073_103951269630647_100000473245992_106093_6522572_n.jpg)
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TNR is the only humane solution to the feral cat problem. Trap/Neuter/Return. That way the population can be humanely reduced over time without killing the cats. If you only spay the females then that's good enough but it's better to neuter the males too. Would it be possible to hire Israeli gentiles for that job to get around the halachic problems? My four inside cats are former feral kittens.
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Would it be possible to hire Israeli gentiles for that job to get around the halachic problems?
That's some good thinking.
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Aish.com had a article on cats recently..
http://www.aish.com/jl/heb/s/92163084.html
The most popular pet in the world.
The master of the house – and the alley – is the cat ( chatul). Cats are the most popular pet in the world ( chayat machmad). Traditionally, historians have thought that ancient Egypt was the site of cat domestication, due to the clear depictions of house cats in Egyptian paintings about 3,600 years old.
Unlike many animals, the cat's language seems to be universal and all cats have the same meow ( ). In Israel you can see cats everywhere in every street, on fences, in garbage cans, or next to any possible food supply. Legend is that in the 1930s, the British brought cats to the Holy Land to control the rat population; that was solved and now Israel’s cities have a preponderance of wild cats.
Many cultures have negative superstitions about cats. An example would be the belief that a black cat "crossing your path" leads to bad luck. Believing in this would be a violation of the Torah commandment not to ascribe power to omens (Leviticus 19:26).
Cats are mentioned fondly in the Talmud. Our Sages of Blessed Memory ( ) refer to cats as an example of modesty, for the way they cover their droppings:
Thanks to the input that you, Kahane-Was-Right BT, and everyone provided.
Though I like cats, the amount of stray undersized cats was noticeable. The good news is not surprisingly, I didn't see any rats or mice.
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The cats to Israelis are like the rats and mice to us here. Back in the 80's and 90's there were probably a ton more until the Thai workers were hired temporarily to work. And sure enough the cat population went down...the rest you can figure out. no need for me to say more than that.
Someone I met on the trip mentioned that the Thai workers were mainly in Tel Aviv and some other parts in the Western part of Israel. If that was the case, maybe that explains why Jerusalem still has so many stray cats.
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They are beautiful but terrible personalities compared to dogs. Dogs are predictable and obedient. Cats on the other hand are tempramental. Not a fan of having one.
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There is no shortage of cats here in the US. The one thing I did notice there was that the cats were much more social towards humans. I was sitting on steps and one of them jumped on my lap and went to sleep. Probably the bug difference is that people treat them more humanely in the Jewish neighborhoods. My big question is whether the cats have the same behaviors in the Arab neighborhoods?
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There is no shortage of cats here in the US. The one thing I did notice there was that the cats were much more social towards humans. I was sitting on steps and one of them jumped on my lap and went to sleep. Probably the bug difference is that people treat them more humanely in the Jewish neighborhoods. My big question is whether the cats have the same behaviors in the Arab neighborhoods?
(http://www.moonbattery.com/nahoul-the-bee-cat.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ExZVimjST8
The latest episode of a popular Hamas children's TV show, Tomorrow's Pioneers, features its main character cruelly swinging cats by their tails and throwing stones at caged lions in the Gaza zoo.
The episode of Tomorrow's Pioneers features a costumed adult playing Nahool the Bee at the zoo, tormenting domestic cats and lions. The lions become so enraged by the abuse that one of them repeatedly tries to attack Nahool.
Every time Nahool swings a cat by the tail, an act that can cause permanent physical and behavior problems for the animal, children can be heard bursting into laughter.
Ironically, the decision to terrorize and inflict physical pain on real animals in the episode is an attempt to teach children not to abuse animals. When the program returns to the studio, the children in the audience criticize Nahool for his behavior, and he is told never to do it again.
NOTE: Nahool is the character that replaced Farfur, the Mickey Mouse clone that was killed off in response to widespread international outrage that a knockoff of the lovable Walt Disney character was teaching children about hatred and world Islamic domination.
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Do something with arabs, then think about cats. Throw the arabs keep the cats.
;D
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Do something with arabs, then think about cats. Throw the arabs keep the cats.
;D
:::D :::D :::D :::D :::D
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Why does everybody in this thread hate cats? It's not their fault that they have been forced to live like cucarachas in the Holy Land.
:::D
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Now I do remember hearing the story like others here said, except when it was told to me, they said the rat infestation was actually in egypt, so British brought the cats into egypt and from their they bred "like rabbits" and spread all over the middle east, including in Israel.
Was there a big rat problem in the Land of Israel in the beginning of the British mandate also? Or was that problem an Egyptian one? Maybe I'm getting my egyptian references mixed up....
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Do something with arabs, then think about cats. Throw the arabs keep the cats.
;D
:::D :::D :::D :::D :::D
What is so funny about that?
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I disagree with you, Dr. Dan. It is true that cats are less predictable than dogs but a very sweet cat, if it bonds to you, will arguably be more loyal to you than a dog. (Granted, it's harder to find a sweet cat than a sweet dog; they have to be raised just right as kittens, and their cat-mother's level of tameness has a lot to do with it too.)
I am very much a cat person, and although I cannot say I love every single cat, I definitely think they are noble animals.
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I disagree with you, Dr. Dan. It is true that cats are less predictable than dogs but a very sweet cat, if it bonds to you, will arguably be more loyal to you than a dog. (Granted, it's harder to find a sweet cat than a sweet dog; they have to be raised just right as kittens, and their cat-mother's level of tameness has a lot to do with it too.)
I am very much a cat person, and although I cannot say I love every single cat, I definitely think they are noble animals.
From my personal experience, I have had cats turn on me and be particularly annoying. If a dog wines and barks, you can tell it to shut up and it will listen...You do that to the cat, it will hiss and hate you FOREVER.
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If a cat is whining at you it's because you need to do something to serve it, and if you don't then of course it will see you as less than useless.
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If a cat is whining at you it's because you need to do something to serve it, and if you don't then of course it will see you as less than useless.
4AM in the morning? 3 AM...and then they poop all over the place? No thanks...
Dogs rule. Here is a very special one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYdRZmqoaR0
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I have had some of the most loyal and loving cats... I don't know how anyone can say that Cats are less social than Dogs... Sometimes cats are very introverted, but sometimes some other cats are very social and playful.
I prefer Cats to Dogs any day because cats require much less maintenance {I dont have to walk my cat, I can let them wander in my yard without fences, The cat can feed itself when hungry (I place water and food where the cats can find them)}...
I can go on about the reasons I prefer cats to dogs... When I was a young boy we had a Beagle dog and it was very hard on us to keep the dog happy... My cats are very much self-reliant and yet they both enjoy sitting with me and playing.
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Muman I think most cats can be loving and sweet, as long as they are socialized young enough. Truly feral cats should not be taken inside but should just be sterilized. Some are former pets and can be re-socialized. Whitenose for example was once a housepet, I can tell by her friendly demeanor.
I had to socialize Miss Kitty. When I first brought Miss Kitty in she was still young enough to be socialized but she was almost too old.
She was fearful and would hide and stay in one place, and when I held her, she would grip on tightly with her claws and act panicked.
It took a lot of patience and work to calm her down. I had to teach her how to play with her toys and not to be afraid of me. Now she's almost as tame as a regular housecat. It just took a lot of handling and talking to her.
I'm working on getting her to be able to let me touch her paws and claws now so I can eventually put colored nail caps on her. I want to do that because sometimes she still grips me with her claws on my shoulder when I'm holding her but not nearly as deeply as she used to.
I love dogs too. I never thought I'd be a cat person but somehow I ended up with four! lol I think puppies are probably the cutest animals on earth.
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If a cat is whining at you it's because you need to do something to serve it, and if you don't then of course it will see you as less than useless.
4AM in the morning? 3 AM...and then they poop all over the place? No thanks...
Dogs rule. Here is a very special one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYdRZmqoaR0
I always enjoy seeing that video.
Cookie is so smart.
Dogs do rule.
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and then they poop all over the place? No thanks...
Cats are among the cleanest animals on the planet. If a cat is doing that it is trying to tell you that something is wrong.
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and then they poop all over the place? No thanks...
Cats are among the cleanest animals on the planet. If a cat is doing that it is trying to tell you that something is wrong.
I can't imagine my cats deciding to poop anywhere but their litter area! What a tragedy!
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i like cats more than dogs.
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and then they poop all over the place? No thanks...
Cats are among the cleanest animals on the planet. If a cat is doing that it is trying to tell you that something is wrong.
I can't imagine my cats deciding to poop anywhere but their litter area! What a tragedy!
Isn't the litter area inside? I don't think I would like to have a litter box inside my house. It has been a very long time since I owned a cat.
My dog is trained to go outside and he never makes mistakes. He is great dog. Very intelligent and loyal.
I have a question. Do cats run to the door when you come home? I really don't know the answer to that question. That is one of the best times of my day. When the dog runs to greet me.
Also, my dog doesn't go on the furniture or kitchen counters. One of my relatives has a cat that climbs all over everything. My neighbors cat kills birds all over my yard and poops in sandy soil. I hate finding dead birds and cat poop.
I guess it's just a matter of preference.
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and then they poop all over the place? No thanks...
Cats are among the cleanest animals on the planet. If a cat is doing that it is trying to tell you that something is wrong.
I can't imagine my cats deciding to poop anywhere but their litter area! What a tragedy!
Isn't the litter area inside? I don't think I would like to have a litter box inside my house. It has been a very long time since I owned a cat.
My dog is trained to go outside and he never makes mistakes. He is great dog. Very intelligent and loyal.
I have a question. Do cats run to the door when you come home? I really don't know the answer to that question. That is one of the best times of my day. When the dog runs to greet me.
Also, my dog doesn't go on the furniture or kitchen counters. One of my relatives has a cat that climbs all over everything. My neighbors cat kills birds all over my yard and poops in sandy soil. I hate finding dead birds and cat poop.
I guess it's just a matter of preference.
The litter is in a part of the apartment that I do not stay in, as long as I stay current on the litter my home is happy. I can see why this would be an issue depending on the outlay of a home.
My boy cat must recognize the sound of how I walk because he is always right at the door when I come home ready to be picked up. This cat also hates when I leave even if he has other humans and cats to play with him, sometimes he howls, he would go crazy when he was younger -- even if I just take a shower [he used to get into my shower with me!]. My girl cat sleeps on my chest every night, or my back if I roll over. She is like a little lumberjack who can balance on a rotating log -- I don't fall asleep right w/o her now. My old dog [of blessed memory] used to light up when I would come home, sleep at my door so no one could bother me and she would know when I woke up first... I never needed a leash for her either. A cat being excited to see you when you come home and a dog excited to see you when you come home are different experiences, although both very pleasurable.
My cats seem to stay away from kitchen counters, but they do get on other furniture. In the past I have let my dogs onto the furniture as well. I guess I am just pet friendly as far as furniture goes. Sometimes it is interesting to me to watch my cats try and walk on certain areas, like my bookshelves that go around the room [the books provide an uneven surface so they need to balance carefully!]. They also have some "cat furniture" which I enjoy watching them play with.
I do not let my cats outside very often. I'll take my boy out to see a change of scenery every so often but indoor cats live a lot longer than outdoor cats, or even indoor/outdoor.
I like dogs a lot too. If I was not a dog person I would have never gotten my first cat, a sickly little 6 week old stray cat who lost his mom somehow who passed out starving under my cars tire. I like mammals in general. One day I hope to have another dog; my best dog was a Shepard-Rottweiler mix... I am holding out from getting a new dog until I, God willing, make Aliyah; I've been considering a Canaan dog, one of my Israeli friends has one. I'd also like a horse, I intend on at least riding a camel once to see if I like them [I've heard they are finicky and can even spit at people!]. I've had hamsters as a kid, and when I worked in SoHo NYC I adopted a rat my friend tried to feed to his boa constrictor that was too big to eat [and later a companion rat]. I don't like reptiles to much, or birds really [but I have taken care of a parrot at a store I used to run, and I have read about cockatiels and might check more out on them in time].
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You take a cat out of its natural home and put it somewhere else it gets stressed for a period of time and even its personality could permanently change as if it were an abused child.
Most dogs, however, stay the same stupid lovable, obedient animals when you do that.
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imo, cats are difficult to train unlike dogs. I dont like dogs cause they are loud and they salivate a lot lol. However dogs give the love back, cats hardly do. Dont feed a dog for a couple of days, and he/she wont be angry with you.. do that with cat, and they will withdraw themself from us.
i have a question for some here who own cats. Do female and male cats behave differently with their owners? i have heard that female cats tend to go towards the male owner, and vice versa.
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imo, cats are difficult to train unlike dogs. I dont like dogs cause they are loud and they salivate a lot lol. However dogs give the love back, cats hardly do. Dont feed a dog for a couple of days, and he/she wont be angry with you.. do that with cat, and they will withdraw themself from us.
i have a question for some here who own cats. Do female and male cats behave differently with their owners? i have heard that female cats tend to go towards the male owner, and vice versa.
I have had very close connections with both male and female cats.... But my current favorite cat happens to be a female...
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My cat was just like a dog, I sure do miss him! He would come to do the door to greet me every night when I came home from work. He was a great "watch cat" too, would alert me if someone was outside. He would fetch, play tag, you name it. NEVER on my kitchen counters, you CAN train cats! I think male cats are alot more friendly than females AND I believe each and every one has their own personality. I had an orange tabby and you talk about a brat! LOL I love both cats and dogs, but will say dogs drive me more crazy with their "Pet me pet me pet me pet me" constantly! And unless you have a fenced in yard, YOU have to put them on a leash and take them outside. I had a fenced in yard and would put my cat on a leash and the other end was tied to a brick so he wouldn't wander LOL I used to vacuum EVERY day, so the one thing I do NOT miss is all that hair!
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Its a shame that animals have to be left to starve and perish. Every family should find it in their hearts to own at least one pet. We always neuter or spay, that way there is not going to be any accidents.
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imo, cats are difficult to train unlike dogs. I dont like dogs cause they are loud and they salivate a lot lol. However dogs give the love back, cats hardly do. Dont feed a dog for a couple of days, and he/she wont be angry with you.. do that with cat, and they will withdraw themself from us.
i have a question for some here who own cats. Do female and male cats behave differently with their owners? i have heard that female cats tend to go towards the male owner, and vice versa.
I have one male and female and they both go to me more than my roommate [who is female] the vast majority of the time, and my roommate's cat is a female cat and she prefers being around my roommate for sure. I think with cats it really depends how much time at home you spend, and how much of that time you spend directly with them that influences how much a cat will go to interact with that person.
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i have a question for some here who own cats. Do female and male cats behave differently with their owners? i have heard that female cats tend to go towards the male owner, and vice versa.
I have 3 female cats and one male cat and the male cat is pretty much the same, he just is a little more pushy for affection and cries if I'm holding one of the other ones instead of him sometimes. lol
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See it's all a matter of preference. ;D
Animals are sometimes better then people.
They never look at the superficials.
You give them love. They love you back.
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I say better than cats and dogs are having your own kids. Something we all need to strive for
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I say better than cats and dogs are having your own kids. Something we all need to strive for
But you have to walk your kids, feed them, and bathe them... And then put them through school...
8)
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Kids Gd willing give you a legacy.
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I say better than cats and dogs are having your own kids. Something we all need to strive for
True. I only have one, but boy does she make life worth living.
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Every morning in Yeshivah we'd see them eating in the cheder ochel. Freaky.