JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nic Brookes on May 18, 2007, 06:08:28 PM
-
I believe that the in-fighting that has been going on recently is NOT helping our cause. The big disagreement with FOTL ripped us apart BADLY and i can see this happening with Chaimfan now. People posting nasty things against ME because i once posted on StørmFrønt is not acceptable to me, as I have apologised for it, and I am truly sorry. The reason I posted there is I believed there was no right-wing alternative for Gentiles.
Should this in-fighting continue in a way as to be counter-productive to the movement, I shall cease posting on this forum.
-
I believe that the in-fighting that has been going on recently is NOT helping our cause. The big disagreement with FOTL ripped us apart BADLY and i can see this happening with Chaimfan now. People posting nasty things against ME because i once posted on StørmFrønt is not acceptable to me, as I have apologised for it, and I am truly sorry. The reason I posted there is I believed there was no right-wing alternative for Gentiles.
Should this in-fighting continue in a way as to be counter-productive to the movement, I shall cease posting on this forum.
So people who are sticking up for Chaimfan are contributing to the in-fighting that you so detest? I'm not going to allow a decent poster to get the sort of treatment that he is getting.
The fact that you posted on StørmFrønt and are being given an opportunity to post on this forum goes to show that JTF is all about second chances for decent people. Chaimfan is a decent person. Ask Chaim ben Pesach what he thinks.
Chaimfan deserves a second chance and an apology.
-
The fact that you posted on StørmFrønt and are being given an opportunity to post on this forum goes to show that JTF is all about second chances for decent people.
100% agreed, which is why we need to stop bickering. Mods need to consult more before making (potentially) unpopular decisions. Yacov did not even know about Chaimfan.
-
I've already commented on this topic. Chaimfan should not be banned. He and whoever he has a beef with should be settled in private with Yacov to decide....
I think it is great that you went to StørmFrønt and posted on their forum. I have done so in the past to introduce these ignorami to logic, morality, historical fact and truth... Of course I was insulted because none of them could debate. Big deal you went to StørmFrønt...
This will all blow over.. no worries...mate..
-
The fact that you posted on StørmFrønt and are being given an opportunity to post on this forum goes to show that JTF is all about second chances for decent people.
100% agreed, which is why we need to stop bickering. Mods need to consult more before making (potentially) unpopular decisions. Yacov did not even know about Chaimfan.
chaim ben pesach should be consulted with before any banning. that's how i feel. when chaimfan wrote about raping, i, in fact wasn't sure if he was being serious!!!!
-
Whenever Chaimfan says something to extreme, I just delete it and tell him it is not acceptable. I would never ban him. But I am not going to reverse Jeffguy's decision without his approval because Chaim got mad at me when I did the last time with Fruit.
You can tell Jeffguy that there needs to be a real system for 'controversial' bannings. Otherwise, there are going to be many more problems like this. That will be a true waste time.
-
Whenever Chaimfan says something to extreme, I just delete it and tell him it is not acceptable. I would never ban him. But I am not going to reverse Jeffguy's decision without his approval because Chaim got mad at me when I did the last time with Fruit.
I think there is a very big difference between Fruit and Chaimfan to be honest. Fruit was unstable and, in my opinion, needs professional help by a learned Rabbi or a professional... Whatever Chaimfan has to say it should be handled by you and between him and whomever he has the problem with or who has a problem with Chaimfan.
-
While I do not know that Chaimfan should have been banned. I do understand it. Jeffguy and I both were disgusted with comments Chaimfan made regarding hanging men in the streets, raping women and then executing them, and killing little kids.
It was the comments about raping women and then executing them that were entirely disturbing. Whether or not he was "kidding" is not the issue. Rape is not a kidding issue. Raping and then killing someone is not a joke.
If this kind of speech is allowed here, then I will resign as a moderator immediately and JTF will lose me for sure. This is supposed to be a religious organization, and while I am not Orthodox I cannot fathom how anything in Chaimfan's posting remotely would be pleasing to HaShem.
-
While I do not know that Chaimfan should have been banned. I do understand it. Jeffguy and I both were disgusted with comments Chaimfan made regarding hanging men in the streets, raping women and then executing them, and killing little kids.
It was the comments about raping women and then executing them that were entirely disturbing. Whether or not he was "kidding" is not the issue. Rape is not a kidding issue. Raping and then killing someone is not a joke.
If this kind of speech is allowed here, then I will resign as a moderator immediately and JTF will lose me for sure. This is supposed to be a religious organization, and while I am not Orthodox I cannot fathom how anything in Chaimfan's posting remotely would be pleasing to HaShem.
Agreed..
and if there is anything that i said in response to his quote that offended anyone, I apologize..
-
While I do not know that Chaimfan should have been banned. I do understand it. Jeffguy and I both were disgusted with comments Chaimfan made regarding hanging men in the streets, raping women and then executing them, and killing little kids.
It was the comments about raping women and then executing them that were entirely disturbing. Whether or not he was "kidding" is not the issue. Rape is not a kidding issue. Raping and then killing someone is not a joke.
If this kind of speech is allowed here, then I will resign as a moderator immediately and JTF will lose me for sure. This is supposed to be a religious organization, and while I am not Orthodox I cannot fathom how anything in Chaimfan's posting remotely would be pleasing to HaShem.
Agreed..
and if there is anything that i said in response to his quote that offended anyone, I apologize..
Et tu, brute?
-
While I do not know that Chaimfan should have been banned. I do understand it. Jeffguy and I both were disgusted with comments Chaimfan made regarding hanging men in the streets, raping women and then executing them, and killing little kids.
You are quite adept at cutting and pasting your comments from thread to thread. Let me know when you come up with an original thought.
-
While I do not know that Chaimfan should have been banned. I do understand it. Jeffguy and I both were disgusted with comments Chaimfan made regarding hanging men in the streets, raping women and then executing them, and killing little kids.
It was the comments about raping women and then executing them that were entirely disturbing. Whether or not he was "kidding" is not the issue. Rape is not a kidding issue. Raping and then killing someone is not a joke.
If this kind of speech is allowed here, then I will resign as a moderator immediately and JTF will lose me for sure. This is supposed to be a religious organization, and while I am not Orthodox I cannot fathom how anything in Chaimfan's posting remotely would be pleasing to HaShem.
Agreed..
and if there is anything that i said in response to his quote that offended anyone, I apologize..
Et tu, brute?
Sorry, I dont' understand French... :-[
-
While I do not know that Chaimfan should have been banned. I do understand it. Jeffguy and I both were disgusted with comments Chaimfan made regarding hanging men in the streets, raping women and then executing them, and killing little kids.
It was the comments about raping women and then executing them that were entirely disturbing. Whether or not he was "kidding" is not the issue. Rape is not a kidding issue. Raping and then killing someone is not a joke.
If this kind of speech is allowed here, then I will resign as a moderator immediately and JTF will lose me for sure. This is supposed to be a religious organization, and while I am not Orthodox I cannot fathom how anything in Chaimfan's posting remotely would be pleasing to HaShem.
Agreed..
and if there is anything that i said in response to his quote that offended anyone, I apologize..
Et tu, brute?
Sorry, I dont' understand French... :-[
Latin... And You Brutus... (Read Julius Caesar - Shakespeare)
-
Easy guys... calm down this is turning into an un needed farce.. just like the "Palestinians".... ;)
-
While I do not know that Chaimfan should have been banned. I do understand it. Jeffguy and I both were disgusted with comments Chaimfan made regarding hanging men in the streets, raping women and then executing them, and killing little kids.
It was the comments about raping women and then executing them that were entirely disturbing. Whether or not he was "kidding" is not the issue. Rape is not a kidding issue. Raping and then killing someone is not a joke.
If this kind of speech is allowed here, then I will resign as a moderator immediately and JTF will lose me for sure. This is supposed to be a religious organization, and while I am not Orthodox I cannot fathom how anything in Chaimfan's posting remotely would be pleasing to HaShem.
Agreed..
and if there is anything that i said in response to his quote that offended anyone, I apologize..
Et tu, brute?
Sorry, I dont' understand French... :-[
It's latin for your "weak defense of Chaimfan".
-
It's a quote from Shakespeare, "And you Brutus" (Julius Caesar when everyone was stabbing him, Brutus had been a friend of his but joined in with the stabbing of him)
-
Easy guys... calm down this is turning into an un needed farce.. just like the "PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis".... ;)
If anything, it's the sordid bunch of moderators who intend to squeeze the last bit of freedom out of this forum who are turning this place into a farce.
I never applied to be a moderator and I never will.
-
It's a quote from Shakespeare, "And you Brutus" (Julius Caesar when everyone was stabbing him, Brutus had been a friend of his but joined in with the stabbing of him)
I wasn't defending Chaimfan at all. Unfortunately I didnt' react to him with the same scorn everyone else was reacting to him and I was merely agreeing with the previous poster.
I also added an apology for the reply I made which might have sounded offensive to the same people who were offended by Chaimfan.
-
Here's an orginal thought. Perhaps those who wish to defend Chaimfan's outrageous and disgusting comments ought to morally examine themselves just a tad.
Just to clarify, I understand a temporary ban. I did not suggest a full ban on Chaimfan, nor did I institute the current temporary ban on him. But I fully support Jeffguy on this issue.
Trumpeldor you are quite within your rights to disagree with me. However, you ought to act like an adult instead of being petulent.
-
Easy guys... calm down this is turning into an un needed farce.. just like the "PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis".... ;)
If anything, it's the sordid bunch of moderators who intend to squeeze the last bit of freedom out of this forum who are turning this place into a farce.
I never applied to be a moderator and I never will.
Are you or are you not right wing? ;)
-
Here's an orginal thought. Perhaps those who wish to defend Chaimfan's outrageous and disgusting comments ought to morally examine themselves just a tad.
Where did I defend Chaimfan's comment? I am simply, like Voltaire, defending his right to say it. I think Chaimfan should have the right to say whatever insane thing pops into his head. When warned, however, he should remove or repudiate the offending post.
Just to clarify, I understand a temporary ban. I did not suggest a full ban on Chaimfan, nor did I institute the current temporary ban on him. But I fully support Jeffguy on this issue.
Congratulations. You are an accessory to a crime.
Trumpeldor you are quite within your rights to disagree with me. However, you ought to act like an adult instead of being petulent.
I'll stop being 'petulent' when you buy a dictionary and learn proper English.
-
oops...did I misspell "petulant" in an earlier post?
Wow, I have GOT to get myself an Oxford dictionary.
-
So, according to you, Trumpeldor, incitement to rape is not a crime?
-
So, according to you, Trumpeldor, incitement to rape is not a crime?
I don't see Chaimfan "counseling, procuring or commanding another to commit a crime"*, so I wouldn't classify it as 'incitement'.
*R v Higgins (1801) 102 E.R. 269
-
Easy guys... calm down this is turning into an un needed farce.. just like the "PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis".... ;)
If anything, it's the sordid bunch of moderators who intend to squeeze the last bit of freedom out of this forum who are turning this place into a farce.
I never applied to be a moderator and I never will.
I'm insulted now just how is it a sordid bunch of moderators. I have been called everything under the sun at one time or another but never sordid. >:(
-
Easy guys... calm down this is turning into an un needed farce.. just like the "PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis".... ;)
If anything, it's the sordid bunch of moderators who intend to squeeze the last bit of freedom out of this forum who are turning this place into a farce.
I never applied to be a moderator and I never will.
I'm insulted now just how is it a sordid bunch of moderators. I have been called everything under the sun at one time or another but never sordid. >:(
If you had nothing to do with the banning of Chaimfan, and you do not support it, then you are not a sordid moderator. My sincerest apology.
-
In supporting Chaimfan's attempt's to say that rape is good, I would say that you are the sordid one Trumpeldor.
-
Easy guys... calm down this is turning into an un needed farce.. just like the "PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis".... ;)
If anything, it's the sordid bunch of moderators who intend to squeeze the last bit of freedom out of this forum who are turning this place into a farce.
I never applied to be a moderator and I never will.
I'm insulted now just how is it a sordid bunch of moderators. I have been called everything under the sun at one time or another but never sordid. >:(
If you had nothing to do with the banning of Chaimfan, and you do not support it, then you are not a sordid moderator. My sincerest apology.
I didn't know this was an issue until I signed on today however in all honesty I do think that Chaimfan could loose some of the sexual comentary he gives in some of his posts. I can deal with it and possibly many others on the forum can also but I think we need to see ourselves as outsiders would see us as visitors to the JTF forum. jeffguy and the moderators are only trying to put a polished face on the forum and attract some new membership. How does that make them sordid. The forum is growing when we started it was a small group and we had more freedom to say what we wanted among ourselves. We are now out on YouTube inviting people in to see whats going on here on the JTF Forum. Now we need to run a tighter ship and not turn people off before they even join.
-
In supporting Chaimfan's attempt's to say that rape is good, I would say that you are the sordid one Trumpeldor.
I don't care even if Chaimfan said the world is flat. I am not the one trying to shut him up.
-
I didn't know this was an issue until I signed on today however in all honesty I do think that Chaimfan could loose some of the sexual comentary he gives in some of his posts. I can deal with it and possibly many others on the forum can also but I think we need to see ourselves as outsiders would see us as visitors to the JTF forum. jeffguy and the moderators are only trying to put a polished face on the forum and attract some new membership. How does that make them sordid. The forum is growing when we started it was a small group and we had more freedom to say what we wanted among ourselves. We are now out on YouTube inviting people in to see whats going on here on the JTF Forum. Now we need to run a tighter ship and not turn people off before they even join.
What you're essentially saying is that Chaimfan's 'extremist' opinions don't count for anything because they could possibly offend future JTF'rs.
My point is that there is not going to be a JTF worth promoting if we ban somebody who has an uncanny ability to put his finger on the nation's political pulse (read his past posts) simply because he has a habit of saying outrageous and possibly offensive things.
Do you even know the circumstances surrounding his banning, aside from his actual post? Are you aware of the fact that he was insufficiently and ambiguously warned? Are you aware of the fact that he is one of the most-liked posters here? Are you aware of the fact that he was banned in an instant without discussion among the moderators, administrators or Chaim?
Are you aware of the fact that Yacov put up an absurd poll/thread the minute he learned of Chaimfan's banning? What does that say about the cohesiveness of the JTF forum?
What does that say about JTF's ability to handle future disruptions?
Is that fair? Is that right? Is that just? Is that what JTF stands for?
-
Even if someone is able to analyse some things in an amazing manner, calling for rape is unacceptable, it is illegal and it is wrong.
-
Even if someone is able to analyse some thing sin an amazing manner, calling for rape is unacceptable, it is illegal and it is wrong.
There was nothing about his post that was illegal. There was no 'incitement' to commit a crime. I defined 'incitement' on another post.
What Chaimfan suggested was that rape was an acceptable act of war, as prescribed by the bible. You may think that the he is wrong, as I do, but who am I or Jeffguy to ban him on that basis?
Jeffguy was not acting like 'the judge' in this instance, but rather as 'the attorney' because of his well-articulated bias against Chaimfan. A responsible moderator would not have done that.
-
Even if someone is able to analyse some thing sin an amazing manner, calling for rape is unacceptable, it is illegal and it is wrong.
There was nothing about his post that was illegal. There was no 'incitement' to commit a crime. I defined 'incitement' on another post.
What Chaimfan suggested was that rape was an acceptable act of war, as prescribed by the bible. You may think that the he is wrong, as I do, but who am I or Jeffguy to ban him on that basis?
Jeffguy was not acting like 'the judge' in this instance, but rather as 'the attorney' because of his well-articulated bias against Chaimfan. A responsible moderator would not have done that.
The bible does not call rape an acceptable act of war, I have read the passage he was referring to, and it is a horrendous twisting of it's real meaning to say that it dubs rape as acceptable.
-
Even if someone is able to analyse some thing sin an amazing manner, calling for rape is unacceptable, it is illegal and it is wrong.
There was nothing about his post that was illegal. There was no 'incitement' to commit a crime. I defined 'incitement' on another post.
What Chaimfan suggested was that rape was an acceptable act of war, as prescribed by the bible. You may think that the he is wrong, as I do, but who am I or Jeffguy to ban him on that basis?
Jeffguy was not acting like 'the judge' in this instance, but rather as 'the attorney' because of his well-articulated bias against Chaimfan. A responsible moderator would not have done that.
The bible does not call rape an acceptable act of war, I have read the passage he was referring to, and it is a horrendous twisting of it's real meaning to say that it dubs rape as acceptable.
Chaimfan is not a Rabbi. If his interpretation of the Torah is wrong, it is our duty to reason with him. Not to ban him.
Certain respected posters on this board have argued that Hurricane Katrina was G-d's wrath or that 9/11 was an 'inside job'. Are we banning them? I think not. Should we ban them? Are these comments somehow less reprehensible than Chaimfan's? I think not.
The moral relativism and double standard has got to stop.
-
We cannot condone someone saying that rape is a good thing. He has not been permanently banned, this is only a warning.
-
If anything, it's the sordid bunch of moderators who intend to squeeze the last bit of freedom out of this forum who are turning this place into a farce.
Quite the contrary Trumpeldor, it's over exaggerated hyperbole like this, which does nothing to promote or help the cause of the Jewish Task Force, and only makes this place look like a rancorous mess. You have a lot of nerve suggesting that the moderators here are "turning this place into a farce", and even more nerve suggesting that Chaimfan can write whatever "insanity" he pleases, and simply remove whatever is beyond the pale if requested.
I invite you to post these exact sentiments in the Ask JTF thread, because it seems to me that if it doesn't come out of the mouth of Chaim Ben Pesach, you don't care. And I guarantee you Chaim Ben Pesach won't exactly agree with your position that this board should be the house of insanity, and that we're destroying the board.
You have no respect for the moderators Chaim and Jimmy appointed, fine, but rest assured Chaim Ben Pesach does.
-
We cannot condone someone saying that rape is a good thing. He has not been permanently banned, this is only a warning.
A warning must proceed a punishment. You don't lock somebody up (albeit for a short time) and call it a warning. ¡Qué hipocresía!
-
If anything, it's the sordid bunch of moderators who intend to squeeze the last bit of freedom out of this forum who are turning this place into a farce.
Quite the contrary Trumpeldor, it's over exaggerated hyperbole like this, which does nothing to promote or help the cause of the Jewish Task Force, and only makes this place look like a rancorous mess. You have a lot of nerve suggesting that the moderators here are "turning this place into a farce", and even more nerve suggesting that Chaimfan can write whatever "insanity" he pleases, and simply remove whatever is beyond the pale if requested.
I invite you to post these exact sentiments in the Ask JTF thread, because it seems to me that if it doesn't come out of the mouth of Chaim Ben Pesach, you don't care. And I guarantee you Chaim Ben Pesach won't exactly agree with your position that this board should be the house of insanity, and that we're destroying the board.
You have no respect for the moderators Chaim and Jimmy appointed, fine, but rest assured Chaim Ben Pesach does.
I'm sorry you feel that way. I posted my support for Chaimfan on the ASK JTF thread 1/2 hour ago.
-
Easy guys... calm down this is turning into an un needed farce.. just like the "PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis".... ;)
Yes, if we're not careful, we can end up splintering into the Taskforce for Jews ;)
Those of you who saw Monty Python's "Life of Brian" would probably get this, having to do with the Peoples Front of Judea being called the Judean Peoples Front. Doesn't real life seem to imitate that phenonemon just so much? Especially with Jews! :laugh:
-
Trumpeldor,
I don't feel any particular way so there's no need for an apology. It is you who feels that the moderators personally appointed by Chaim and Jimmy are destroying this forum, and it is you who feels that this board should be a no holds bar forum where any post is permissible as long as it is edited or deleted upon request.
Again, I ask you to post both these sentiments in the next ASK JTF thread, and have Chaim personally address you on these points.
-
Trumpeldor,
I don't feel any particular way so there's no need for an apology. It is you who feels that the moderators personally appointed by Chaim and Jimmy are destroying this forum, and it is you who feels that this board should be a no holds bar forum where any post is permissible as long as it is edited or deleted upon request.
Again, I ask you to post both these sentiments in the next ASK JTF thread, and have Chaim personally address you on these points.
In general, I don't believe the moderators are destroying the forum. When it comes to the Chaimfan situation, I believe they are setting a dangerous precedent: that any poster, regardless of past contributions, can be banned without adequate warning, by a single moderator, without approval from Yacov or Jimmy, for an inflammatory comment that could have easily been handled behind the scenes.
It is the way in which this was handled by the moderators that opens you all to criticism.
-
In general, I don't believe the moderators are destroying the forum.
Trumpeldor,
You've stated on this forum that the moderators are turning this board into a "farce" -- your words, not mine. And you have posted nothing similar to that in the ASK JTF thread, nor have you told Chaim you believe all posts, regardless of content, should be allowed -- again, your words, not mine.
-
In general, I don't believe the moderators are destroying the forum.
Trumpeldor,
You've stated on this forum that the moderators are turning this board into a "farce" -- your words, not mine. And you have posted nothing similar to that in the ASK JTF thread, nor have you told Chaim you believe all posts, regardless of content, should be allowed -- again, your words, not mine.
I will do so right now.
-
Trumpeldor,
You may want to write precisely what you wrote earlier which certainly wasn't what you wrote in the ASK JTF thread. What you wrote was "the sordid bunch of moderators who intend to squeeze the last bit of freedom out of this forum who are turning this place into a farce", and softening that statement for Chaim only proves that your realize how degrading such a statement is, since Ben Pesach and Sullivan themselves appointed the mods here.
I also want you to request that all posts be allowed on this forum regardless of content or "insanity" as you stated earlier.
Let's get Chaim's opinion on both of your sentiments as expressed.
-
You can ask him that if you want.
(Trumpeldor I apologize, I accidently edited your post while trying to reply.)
-
Not a distortion at all, and I invite you to copy and paste the exact sentiment you posted which was: "I think Chaimfan should have the right to say whatever insane thing pops into his head."
While your at it, be sure to mention that you accused dawntreader of being an "accessory to a crime."
Your quite bold on these forums, Trumpeldor, but not quite as bold in the Ask JTF thread.
-
Not a distortion at all, and I invite you to copy and paste the exact sentiment you posted which was: "I think Chaimfan should have the right to say whatever insane thing pops into his head."
While your at it, be sure to mention that you accused dawntreader of being an "accessory to a crime."
Your quite bold on these forums, Trumpeldor, but not quite as bold in the Ask JTF thread.
By the way, if Jimmy reads those quotes and tells me to stop, I will respect that. Perhaps I will be fortunate enough to get a warning before I am summarily booted.
-
Trumpeldor,
That was an accident. I'm sorry about that.
-
It is 11:14 PM on Friday Evening.
Still no Chaimfan.
-
I think if Chaim himself would be more active on this forum, things would be different. How can this forum reflect him if he never comes on. We have moderators who think that they are cleopatra jefferson. I have personally met three of the moderators in person and those happen not to be the who are wattering down this forum. If Chaim himself knew about this, Chaimfan would be immediately reinstated and the moderators would be banned. It's not cute to ban someone and unless someone says somethng that Chaim Ben Pesach himself would not approve, no banning is neccesary.
-
I think if Chaim himself would be more active on this forum, things would be different. How can this forum reflect him if he never comes on. We have moderators who think that they are cleopatra jefferson. I have personally met three of the moderators in person and those happen not to be the who are wattering down this forum. If Chaim himself knew about this, Chaimfan would be immediately reinstated and the moderators would be banned. It's not cute to ban someone and unless someone says somethng that Chaim Ben Pesach himself would not approve, no banning is neccesary.
Even if Chaim ben Pesach would not approve of the statement in question, we cannot ban good people without clear warnings.
I think Chaim is tremendously busy so it probably isn't realistic to hope that he will become active on this forum. Right now, his primary focus should be on Israel and the Hebrew forum.
He does monitor this forum a fair bit through Jimmy and the Sunday Ask JTF.
-
This is exactly the kind of bickering that I want to avoid. (see first post in thread)