JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Confederate Kahanist on July 29, 2010, 10:32:39 PM
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Just Bobs take on these dangerous Wikileaks that could put us in harms way:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogqZ6xB9h7Q&playnext=1&videos=8rZh1WRX-gQ
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This is a huge concern for our troops on the battlefield!
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I think wikileaks is evil and should be shut down, the leaker arrested and punished for treason...
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You always hear these things about people hacking the Pentagon and things like that.
Now here comes it:
Why on earth is SECRET, CLASSIFIED GOVERNMENT INFORMATION ON A COMPUTER, CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET???
No internet - No hackers
No muslims - No terror
Keep secret information on a computer that is NOT attached to the internet. How hard can it be?
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You always hear these things about people hacking the Pentagon and things like that.
Now here comes it:
Why on earth is SECRET, CLASSIFIED GOVERNMENT INFORMATION ON A COMPUTER, CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET???
No internet - No hackers
No muslims - No terror
Keep secret information on a computer that is NOT attached to the internet. How hard can it be?
When I used to work as a contractor to defense companies in the late 80s the rule was that any machine which had sensitive information could not be connected to the network... I don't know if or why those rules changed..
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If you were Globalist/Fascists heading a military/industrial complex, and you wanted to find a 'convenient' way to institute massive repression and instill fear into your 'peons', wouldn't it be a convenient way to do it to release official public relations stories claiming that "enemies" had hacked your computers and "released secret documents"?
Especially at a time when public support for these "wars" is waning, and the public is beginning to "get wise" as to the fact that nobody knows why we're there or what it is we hope to achieve at the end of ten years!
Because, as many hear have so astutely pointed out, if things are "top secret" and "classified" then one doesn't leave them laying around on computer hard drives.
Duh!
But, what better way to "whip up WAR FRENZY" than to declare that "enemies of America" have "hacked" into "classified documents" in attempts to make the U.S. "efforts at fighting terrorism" look bad!
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If you were Globalist/Fascists heading a military/industrial complex, and you wanted to find a 'convenient' way to institute massive repression and instill fear into your 'peons', wouldn't it be a convenient way to do it to release official public relations stories claiming that "enemies" had hacked your computers and "released secret documents"?
Especially at a time when public support for these "wars" is waning, and the public is beginning to "get wise" as to the fact that nobody knows why we're there or what it is we hope to achieve at the end of ten years!
Because, as many hear have so astutely pointed out, if things are "top secret" and "classified" then one doesn't leave them laying around on computer hard drives.
Duh!
But, what better way to "whip up WAR FRENZY" than to declare that "enemies of America" have "hacked" into "classified documents" in attempts to make the U.S. "efforts at fighting terrorism" look bad!
But I did not hear that this information was 'Hacked'... From what I understand there was a person who worked in the agencies who released the information to the wikileaks site... Who said this was a matter of computer hacking?
If a human agent is working for the government and takes information out and sends it to wikileaks no hacking was required, and even if the computers were not connected to the internet the information would still be leaked.
Please provide a link which discusses the hacking aspect of this case..
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If you were Globalist/Fascists heading a military/industrial complex, and you wanted to find a 'convenient' way to institute massive repression and instill fear into your 'peons', wouldn't it be a convenient way to do it to release official public relations stories claiming that "enemies" had hacked your computers and "released secret documents"?
Especially at a time when public support for these "wars" is waning, and the public is beginning to "get wise" as to the fact that nobody knows why we're there or what it is we hope to achieve at the end of ten years!
Because, as many hear have so astutely pointed out, if things are "top secret" and "classified" then one doesn't leave them laying around on computer hard drives.
Duh!
But, what better way to "whip up WAR FRENZY" than to declare that "enemies of America" have "hacked" into "classified documents" in attempts to make the U.S. "efforts at fighting terrorism" look bad!
Uhh, that would make sense if these leaks didn't make the US war efforts look bad, but they do.
The leaks make the govt look like corrupt criminals. So your theory doesn't fit.
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The leaks may be planned and intentional.
It may be to initiate withdrawal from the war which was never meant to be what it meant.
The leaks may be a silent declaration for the formation of an axis.
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I've known about Wikileaks for years, and it can't be shut down because of the way it's setup. Their server is setup similar to Freenet or I2P, basically there is no central server, using DYNAMIC DNS and multiple servers located in several countries which means that the site will always be online.
Wikileaks is not very specific in the content it hosts, they pretty much post anything and everything regardless where it comes from.
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If you were Globalist/Fascists heading a military/industrial complex, and you wanted to find a 'convenient' way to institute massive repression and instill fear into your 'peons', wouldn't it be a convenient way to do it to release official public relations stories claiming that "enemies" had hacked your computers and "released secret documents"?
Especially at a time when public support for these "wars" is waning, and the public is beginning to "get wise" as to the fact that nobody knows why we're there or what it is we hope to achieve at the end of ten years!
Because, as many hear have so astutely pointed out, if things are "top secret" and "classified" then one doesn't leave them laying around on computer hard drives.
Duh!
But, what better way to "whip up WAR FRENZY" than to declare that "enemies of America" have "hacked" into "classified documents" in attempts to make the U.S. "efforts at fighting terrorism" look bad!
Uhh, that would make sense if these leaks didn't make the US war efforts look bad, but they do.
The leaks make the govt look like corrupt criminals. So your theory doesn't fit.
You mean the government aren't corrupt criminals? That's news to me...
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Re: "The leaks make the govt look like corrupt criminals. So your theory doesn't fit. "
OK -- I take it back.
They're just incompetent criminals!
:::D
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Re: "Please provide a link which discusses the hacking aspect of this case.. "
I would help you if I could, but right now my computer is being hacked! ;D
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If you were Globalist/Fascists heading a military/industrial complex, and you wanted to find a 'convenient' way to institute massive repression and instill fear into your 'peons', wouldn't it be a convenient way to do it to release official public relations stories claiming that "enemies" had hacked your computers and "released secret documents"?
Especially at a time when public support for these "wars" is waning, and the public is beginning to "get wise" as to the fact that nobody knows why we're there or what it is we hope to achieve at the end of ten years!
Because, as many hear have so astutely pointed out, if things are "top secret" and "classified" then one doesn't leave them laying around on computer hard drives.
Duh!
But, what better way to "whip up WAR FRENZY" than to declare that "enemies of America" have "hacked" into "classified documents" in attempts to make the U.S. "efforts at fighting terrorism" look bad!
Uhh, that would make sense if these leaks didn't make the US war efforts look bad, but they do.
The leaks make the govt look like corrupt criminals. So your theory doesn't fit.
You mean the government aren't corrupt criminals? That's news to me...
Huh?
I am saying that the documents within the leak expose the corrupt criminals in the govt doing criminal things they reasonably would not want the public to know about. So his theory does not make logical sense. There is no motive. These leaks do not promote war on terror, they actually expose some corruption behind it and make the war on terror look bad.
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If you were Globalist/Fascists heading a military/industrial complex, and you wanted to find a 'convenient' way to institute massive repression and instill fear into your 'peons', wouldn't it be a convenient way to do it to release official public relations stories claiming that "enemies" had hacked your computers and "released secret documents"?
Especially at a time when public support for these "wars" is waning, and the public is beginning to "get wise" as to the fact that nobody knows why we're there or what it is we hope to achieve at the end of ten years!
Because, as many hear have so astutely pointed out, if things are "top secret" and "classified" then one doesn't leave them laying around on computer hard drives.
Duh!
But, what better way to "whip up WAR FRENZY" than to declare that "enemies of America" have "hacked" into "classified documents" in attempts to make the U.S. "efforts at fighting terrorism" look bad!
Uhh, that would make sense if these leaks didn't make the US war efforts look bad, but they do.
The leaks make the govt look like corrupt criminals. So your theory doesn't fit.
You mean the government aren't corrupt criminals? That's news to me...
Huh?
I am saying that the documents within the leak expose the corrupt criminals in the govt doing criminal things they reasonably would not want the public to know about. So his theory does not make logical sense. There is no motive. These leaks do not promote war on terror, they actually expose some corruption behind it and make the war on terror look bad.
Corruption will always be blamed on conservative whites.
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I thought exposing corruption was a good thing
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I thought exposing corruption was a good thing
Me too.
However, some people do have interesting definitions of the term "corruption." Apparently when the US army storms an afghan village (or iraqi village, etc) to put down an insurgent uprising, the civilian casualties are in some people's minds the "illegal" and "unlawful" result of "corrupt" bloodthirsty people/politicians/generals who want to murder innocent Arabs. I do not agree with that interpretation, personally.
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But when these leaks expose that the Pakistani govt and the Pakistani intelligence, whom the US govt donates millions of dollars for 'the war on terror' actually uses these funds to aid their allies the taliban and al qaeda, or when US money goes toward other of our enemies, I'm all for wikileaks exposing that.
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Yes we should know what that money is being used for!
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Yes we should know what that money is being used for!
Taxpayers money, in essence, is mainly used to destroy whites and rightwing Jews.
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Yes we should know what that money is being used for!
Taxpayers money, in essence, is mainly used to destroy whites and rightwing Jews.
Yes very true.
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The wikileak leaker appears to be incarcerated at this time... Hallelujah!!!
I believe that this individual, if found guilty, should be given the death penalty as the original law was that treason was punishable by death. This individual has put American troops in dangers way and should be made an example of by having his body hung from a gallow till dead.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/30/alleged-rogue-gi-sent-wikileaks-probe/
An Army private suspected of leaking tens of thousands of classified Afghan War documents has been transferred from Kuwait to a Marine Corps brig in Quantico, Virginia, where he remains in custody.
Pfc. Bradley Manning, a 22-year-old intelligence analyst formerly posted in Iraq, is the focus of a military investigation into the publication of 75,000 secret Army logs sent from Afghanistan between 2004 and 2009. Manning has already been charged over the leaking a video of a fatal 2007 helicopter strike that appeared on the WikiLeaks website in April.
Defense officials said Thursday that they had found concrete evidence linking Manning to the Afghan leaks, but are still combing through computers he used to determine what other material he may have stolen. WikiLeaks is believed to possess another 15,000 sensitive logs.
Manning will remain in confinement as the military continues its investigation and attempts to determine who helped him to provide the documents to the website, defense sources said.
Top Pentagon officials slammed WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange as having "blood ... on his hands" for releasing the sensitive documents, which appeared to include the names of Afghans enlisted as classified U.S. military informants.
"Mr. Assange can say whatever he likes about the greater good he thinks he and his source are doing, but the truth is they might already have on their hands the blood of some young soldier or that of an Afghan family," Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen said.
Manning had been confined at Camp Arifjan in Kuwait since May 29, and was charged in July with 12 counts of violating Army codes and regulation. Those charges were pressed before the release of the massive cache of classified documents this week.
The charges currently pressed stem from the released of a video in April showing a U.S. helicopter missile strike in Iraq that killed a number of suspected militants, as well as a Reuters reporter and his assistant.
Manning's commanding general in Iraq requested the transfer to the U.S., expecting a potentially lengthy pre-trial confinement because of the complexity of charges and an ongoing investigation, according to military officials.
And I believe Mr ASSange should have a beam shoved up his...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason#United_States
"whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."
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It is also the U.S. Army and Pentagon which is supplying the PLO with advanced military weaponry and training 24 hrs./day inside Eretz Yisrael.
Am I supposed to consider a Kahanist who exposes the depth of this perfidy and betrayal through the release of previously classified documents to be a traitor deserving of immediate execution?
If the U.S. Army are the "good guys" in Afghanistan, then anyone who dares to interfere with their operations inside Judaea, Samaria, and Gaza must then, by very definition, be a monstrous traitor to all Jews.
Sorry, you can't have it both ways -- You can't declare yourself a Kahanist believing in Eretz Yisrael and simultaneously demand the execution of someone revealing the truth about the military forces who by following orders are funding and training the Jewish People's deadly enemies .
I'd like to read just how much evil is being perpetrated against the Jews by the present regime, and if it takes leaking documents for that to happen, then all the better.
"Classified Top Secret" starts out as a way to file documents and messages during wartime to protect a nation's vital security, and then degenerates during "peacetime" to a method of instituting an all out dictatorship over the people through allowing only an elite ruling class to access the facts about government actions both legal and illegal, dirty tricks in violation of all international conventions, and secret budgets used with taxpayer's money to fund such things.
My opinion.
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Re: "Apparently when the US army storms an afghan village (or iraqi village, etc) to put down an insurgent uprising, the civilian casualties are in some people's minds the "illegal" and "unlawful" result of "corrupt" bloodthirsty people/politicians/generals "
If it was your backyard/neighborhood under a foreign military occupation and military action, I have a feeling that after ten years of it you too would be considered "an insurgent carrying out an uprising".
We have no reason whatsoever to be in either Iraq or Afghanistan.
We deposed Saddam Hussein EIGHT YEARS AGO.
We declared we would capture Bin Laden EIGHT YEARS AGO and now say we don't know where he is but that we have to remain to defeat the Taliban.
Yet, we lose and lose because we simply can not dictate that Afghans accept our ways or laws. They never have. They never will. They are barbarous and always will be that way because they want to be such.
I fear there are many Americans who watch too much television and listen to too many charlatan shill phony "conservatives" on the radio.
Don't you get it yet?
You see Bush walking holding hands with the Saudi schmuck who is funding the Taliban? And you see Bush and Obama funding the PLO and Hamas and sending them millions and millions of our dollars to destroy Israel....and you still live in some willful denial dream state that there is some kind of "War on Terror" being fought by the U.S. in order to protect us which must continue indefinitely?
Sorry....but you need to strongly reconsider your viewpoints and political positions.
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The purpose of these leaks seems to be solely to interfere with Americas ability to wage war against a sworn enemy. I don't know why you are supporting a traitor like this. I believe that the war in Afghanistan is beneficial to the safety of American citizens.
I don't know why anyone would support this kind of treason, especially an American.
I dont see anything sinister in this war. The leaks seem to support the reasoning of the war effort.
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It is also the U.S. Army and Pentagon which is supplying the PLO with advanced military weaponry and training 24 hrs./day inside Eretz Yisrael.
Am I supposed to consider a Kahanist who exposes the depth of this perfidy and betrayal through the release of previously classified documents to be a traitor deserving of immediate execution?
If the U.S. Army are the "good guys" in Afghanistan, then anyone who dares to interfere with their operations inside Judaea, Samaria, and Gaza must then, by very definition, be a monstrous traitor to all Jews.
Sorry, you can't have it both ways -- You can't declare yourself a Kahanist believing in Eretz Yisrael and simultaneously demand the execution of someone revealing the truth about the military forces who by following orders are funding and training the Jewish People's deadly enemies .
I'd like to read just how much evil is being perpetrated against the Jews by the present regime, and if it takes leaking documents for that to happen, then all the better.
"Classified Top Secret" starts out as a way to file documents and messages during wartime to protect a nation's vital security, and then degenerates during "peacetime" to a method of instituting an all out dictatorship over the people through allowing only an elite ruling class to access the facts about government actions both legal and illegal, dirty tricks in violation of all international conventions, and secret budgets used with taxpayer's money to fund such things.
My opinion.
I think the math is pretty simple.
I want the US army to kill as many taliban/al qaeda/ muslim amalekites as possible.
I want the US govt to STOP funding the enemies of Israel such as the PLO and Hezbollah.
But I also want the ISRAELI govt to stop funding the enemies of Israel.
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Re: "Apparently when the US army storms an afghan village (or iraqi village, etc) to put down an insurgent uprising, the civilian casualties are in some people's minds the "illegal" and "unlawful" result of "corrupt" bloodthirsty people/politicians/generals "
If it was your backyard/neighborhood under a foreign military occupation and military action, I have a feeling that after ten years of it you too would be considered "an insurgent carrying out an uprising".
Oh give it a rest. Capturing a particular village does not take 10 years, it's an operation and it takes about as long as it takes to wipe out the people fighting against US troops. That could be a matter of days. There is not a daily "Battle of Fallujah" for 10 years straight. That was an event, hence the name. That the US thinks it's going to hang around in different places there with security detail, "democracy building," regime change, and other useless measures with Islamic Arabs, is not my concern. That's an error from the top and an error in philosophy.
Yet, we lose and lose because we simply can not dictate that Afghans accept our ways or laws. They never have. They never will. They are barbarous and always will be that way because they want to be such.
Who's "we?" I'm a Jew. As far as I'm concerned, the more Arab muslim nazis the US army kills, the better. That the US govt puts the soldiers into stupid 'regime-change' games that can never work, reflects a strategic error. It's deep rooted in the mentality of the US govt and a result of failure to understand the arab and Islamic world. That doesn't mean I'm going to start rooting for the afghanis to kill more US soldiers!?
I fear there are many Americans who watch too much television and listen to too many charlatan shill phony "conservatives" on the radio.
Don't you get it yet?
Get what? I'm listening.
You see Bush walking holding hands with the Saudi schmuck who is funding the Taliban? And you see Bush and Obama funding the PLO and Hamas and sending them millions and millions of our dollars to destroy Israel....and you still live in some willful denial dream state that there is some kind of "War on Terror" being fought by the U.S. in order to protect us which must continue indefinitely?
These are different issues. I don't think just because the US funds the PLO and hamas (SO DOES THE ISRAELI GOVT) means that I want al qaeda to be victorious or for taliban to kill US soldiers. That is just nuts. You can't paint a country like the US as "pure evil" just because they do some things wrong. Would you hope for Hezbollah to have success in war with Israel because you don't like the Israeli regime? I for one, would not. I would want as few IDF soldiers harmed as possible.
Sorry....but you need to strongly reconsider your viewpoints and political positions.
Which ones? I'm still waiting for you to explain something. I'm waiting to "get it." So tell me, what is there to get? Because Bush holds a Saudi's hand, I should jump to an irrational conclusion about something unrelated? And what conclusion would that be exactly too?
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But when these leaks expose that the Pakistani govt and the Pakistani intelligence, whom the US govt donates millions of dollars for 'the war on terror' actually uses these funds to aid their allies the taliban and al qaeda, or when US Yes we should know what that money is being used for!
money goes toward other of our enemies, I'm all for wikileaks exposing that.
+1
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Re: "I think the math is pretty simple. "
Perhaps this accounts for why the Jews scored 27th in the world on recent math exams?
I always thought that someone who thinks about everything in simple terms was known as a simpleton.
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Re: "Gary Berntsen's book, Jawbreaker
Questions:
1 - What legal authority does the CIA have for placing a military "Field Commander" in Afghanistan, in Iraq, or in any other theatre of war?
2 - If the Constitution of the United States of America forbids any branch of government except the Congress of the United States to declare war and wage war against an enemy, exclusively forbidding both the President and Judicial Branches from doing so ...
Then how is it that we are told we are fighting several wars on several different fronts for almost ten years ongoing which are supposed to be part of "The War On Terror!", and we have already lost both of them at the cost of bankrupting the entire United States, and yet readers here find no reason to question these illegal overseas military adventures?
3 - If we are in fact waging a "War On Terror" without which we here in the U.S. would be in danger here in our own country (''if we don't fight them over there, we'll have to fight them here") ...
Then how is it that a mulatto Marxist Muslim who is not even an American citizen is in the White House, then how is it that Muzzies are building a mosque at Ground Zero, and how is it that the U.S. has been funding and arming the PLO and Hamas - calling for Israel's surrender of Judea, Samaria, Gaza, and Jerusalem - all as part of of Republican Middle East policy - long before Obama even entered the picture?
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The purpose of these leaks seems to be solely to interfere with Americas ability to wage war against a sworn enemy. I don't know why you are supporting a traitor like this. I believe that the war in Afghanistan is beneficial to the safety of American citizens.
I don't know why anyone would support this kind of treason, especially an American.
I dont see anything sinister in this war. The leaks seem to support the reasoning of the war effort.
America is not waging war against a sworn enemy. Instead America is dithering as it supports the Muslim tyrants who control Afghanistan (Karzi and his minions), while tying the hands of its troops behind their backs with ridiculous rules of engagement.
The whole mission of modernizing Afghanistan is a waste of time, resources and lives. Furthermore the current strategy of Gen. Petraeus, which is to win the "hearts and minds" of the muslim world has led to him blaming Israel for the deaths of U.S. troops.
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Re: "I think the math is pretty simple. "
Perhaps this accounts for why the Jews scored 27th in the world on recent math exams?
I always thought that someone who thinks about everything in simple terms was known as a simpleton.
Is that your way of saying you don't have a response to the content of my post?
Why not address the points ? ::)
Here, I'll repost them for you:
I want the US army to kill as many taliban/al qaeda/ muslim amalekites as possible.
I want the US govt to STOP funding the enemies of Israel such as the PLO and Hezbollah.
But I also want the ISRAELI govt to stop funding the enemies of Israel.
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Re: "Gary Berntsen's book, Jawbreaker
Questions:
1 - What legal authority does the CIA have for placing a military "Field Commander" in Afghanistan, in Iraq, or in any other theatre of war?
Legal authority? You mean according to the geneva accords or other irrelevant forms of "international law" which also fundamentally misunderstand the Muslim and Arab world and how to deal with them? These "legal systems" are completely irrelevant to the behavior of countries internationally and it's time people, especially Jews, start to realize that. So quote your "paper champion" UN all you want, it's not going to change anything because no one holds themselves to the so-called "international standards."
I'm not going to shed a tear about the poor Afghani Islamists and their desire for full autonomy free from foreign intervention and US involvement, (or any hypocritical calls for adherence to "international law" in order to help these Islamists) especially after they harbored the group responsible for 9/11. I hope the US army continues to kill these animals in as large numbers as possible. Too bad the corrupt politicians are more interested in "regime-change" fantasies and mideast 'democracy promotion' games than to focus on the real goal, which is to wipe out these arab muslim nazis.
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The purpose of these leaks seems to be solely to interfere with Americas ability to wage war against a sworn enemy. I don't know why you are supporting a traitor like this. I believe that the war in Afghanistan is beneficial to the safety of American citizens.
I don't know why anyone would support this kind of treason, especially an American.
I dont see anything sinister in this war. The leaks seem to support the reasoning of the war effort.
America is not waging war against a sworn enemy. Instead America is dithering as it supports the Muslim tyrants who control Afghanistan (Karzi and his minions), while tying the hands of its troops behind their backs with ridiculous rules of engagement.
The whole mission of modernizing Afghanistan is a waste of time, resources and lives. Furthermore the current strategy of Gen. Petraeus, which is to win the "hearts and minds" of the muslim world has led to him blaming Israel for the deaths of U.S. troops.
Again it seems you don't consider the Taliban and Al Queda to be sworn enemies of America.... This is completely outrageous to me, as a victim of 9/11, because to me these are MY SWORN ENEMIES because of their involvement with planning, providing support for, and executing the deadly attack on American soil. Anything we can do to engage these bloodthirsty animals on their own ground is in Americas best interest.
And I fail to understand how attacking Afghanistan has anything to do with Israel... What are you trying to say about this? How is our war in Afghanistan having any effect on our relation with Israel? It seems like a stupid statement to me..
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Re: "Legal authority? You mean according to the geneva accords or other irrelevant forms of "international law" which also fundamentally misunderstand the Muslim and Arab world and how to deal with them?
- No.
That's not what I mean at all.
I mean the Constitution of the United States of America.
That's what I mean.
Ever heard of it?
It defines how to maintain and preserve a Free Republic called the U.S.A., and without it we end up where we are today, with a rudderless ship adrift in dangerous seas.
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Re: "So quote your "paper champion" UN all you want, it's not going to change anything because no one holds themselves to the so-called "international standards."
- You're only quoting YOURSELF...
I never once mentioned the UN or any other such international body.
Seems you have a problem with reading comprehension.
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Re: "Too bad the corrupt politicians are more interested in "regime-change" fantasies and mideast 'democracy promotion' games than to focus on the real goal, which is to wipe out these arab muslim nazis.
- Well that's just it...it's not the real goal at all.
It's only YOUR real goal.
And unlike YOU, most of "Mom and Pop America" are not willing to have their children come home maimed and crippled, or dead, after ten years of being lied to and taxed to death by the likes of George W. and Hussein O, in order to pay for YOUR idea of killing Muslims regardless of caring about anything or anybody else.
And, of course, when "Mom and Pop America" decide that 'THE JEW IS BEHIND THIS -- STARTING AND CARRYING OUT WARS TO HAVE OUR BOYS GO DIE FOR ISRAEL'S TROUBLES!" -- which, by the way, is what more and more average Americans have begun to believe after watching their children fight and die for a cause which never existed, in eternal wars exhorted by politicians with Jewish surnames ...
I'm sure that YOU still could care less, right?...
After all, YOU are for the Jews.
A self-declared hero of the Jews.
As for the others ... those like MassuhD ... well, they obviously don't understand the "simple math".
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Re: "I want the US army to kill as many taliban/al qaeda/ muslim amalekites as possible.
- That's nice. It's a shame that the U.S. Government doesn't share your desire.
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I want the US govt to STOP funding the enemies of Israel such as the PLO and Hezbollah.
- You, as do I, therefore, oppose "Peace in the Middle East", defined as "A Two-State Solution" by both the previous Republican Administrations as well as the current Democrat Administration.
Which, according to George W. Bush, makes BOTH YOU AND I a terrorist by definition, as he so stated in a major televised policy speech on Middle East Peace.
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Re: But I also want the ISRAELI govt to stop funding the enemies of Israel.
- The Israeli Government no longer serves or represents the Jewish People living in Eretz Yisrael (if it ever actually did).
It serves the same masters who are keeping the U.S. Armed Forces engaged in two unwinnable wars in Mohammedan toilets called Iraq and Afghanistan.
Who cares what the scum in those countries do to each other?
They will never change, and if we're not willing to use every weapon at our disposal to "eliminate" the problem in one month or less, then we should get the hell out of there and stop wasting our military resources and national wealth.
The same government in Washington allowing America's borders to remain wide open to foreign alien invaders is the same keeping our National Guard engaged overseas rather than sending them to secure our borders.
And YOU are convinced "all is well" as long as YOUR longing for revenge against any and all Mohammedans is served regardless of all the consequences for the Jewish People both here and in Israel.
If your intense HATRED is such that you're happy to see Israel and the United States vanish from history if just one more Muslim can be shot or bombed in Afghanistan or Iraq, then I suggest to you that all the Muzzies have to do in order to achieve their long sought goals is NOTHING.
All they have to do is NOTHING, and wait.
It's not your goals per se with which I disagree; it's your tactics for achieving them.
After 9/11 I would have told both Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan, that they had exactly 14 days to hand over Bin Laden and ALL of his accomplices and backers, or face nuclear annihilation, and I would have carried out my ultimatum using only air power.
To lose even one American or Israeli life unnecessarily in fighting Islamic maniacs is just not necessary, and if military engagement has to be financed by our Treasury then it should be over and done with in less than a month.
I care less about Afghan or Iraqi "sovereignty".
But that being said, they will only join the human race if and when they choose to do so.
They've ALWAYS been like they are today -- in fact, even WORSE!
Ten years ago, Bin Laden stated that the Goal of Al-Qaeda was THE DESTRUCTION OF THE AMERICAN ECONOMY.
PERIOD.
So I ask you, who's winning?
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Re: "Legal authority? You mean according to the geneva accords or other irrelevant forms of "international law" which also fundamentally misunderstand the Muslim and Arab world and how to deal with them?
- No.
That's not what I mean at all.
I mean the Constitution of the United States of America.
That's what I mean.
Ever heard of it?
It defines how to maintain and preserve a Free Republic called the U.S.A., and without it we end up where we are today, with a rudderless ship adrift in dangerous seas.
Hehe. So tell me what it says about foreign policy, and how a war in afghanistan or civilian casualties goes against the constitution.
Please.
And tell me was the war against the barbary pirates also a violation of American legal authority?
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Re: "Too bad the corrupt politicians are more interested in "regime-change" fantasies and mideast 'democracy promotion' games than to focus on the real goal, which is to wipe out these arab muslim nazis.
- Well that's just it...it's not the real goal at all.
It's only YOUR real goal.
And unlike YOU, most of "Mom and Pop America" are not willing to have their children come home maimed and crippled, or dead, after ten years of being lied to and taxed to death by the likes of George W. and Hussein O, in order to pay for YOUR idea of killing Muslims regardless of caring about anything or anybody else.
Am I the one who started the war? What the heck are you saying?
And there are plenty of people who sign up for the military exactly for that reason. To go get revenge for 9/11. I'm not asking anyone to "pay for my idea" - I'm on the sidelines just like you or anyone else. And the more Arab Muslim nazis killed, the better. Plain and simple. It is the corrupt politicians who endanger the soldiers' lives by playing "regime-change games" instead of simply killing the enemy in vast numbers. You are distorting the issue because you are conflating my own views with those of George w bush or Obama. But the views are not the same. So let 'mom and pop america,' whose kids want to blow up some arab muslim nazis, blame someone else for the handcuffs that are put on their kids in trying to do so.
And, of course, when "Mom and Pop America" decide that 'THE JEW IS BEHIND THIS -- STARTING AND CARRYING OUT WARS TO HAVE OUR BOYS GO DIE FOR ISRAEL'S TROUBLES!" -- which, by the way, is what more and more average Americans have begun to believe after watching their children fight and die for a cause which never existed, in eternal wars exhorted by politicians with Jewish surnames ...
Do I care what morons believe? I don't have to alter my views in deference to Jew-hating nazis like the ones you describe. George W bush and condisleeza rice are not Jewish. And it wouldn't matter if they were.
I'm sure that YOU still could care less, right?...
After all, YOU are for the Jews.
Care less about what? Not sure what you're referring to. Are you saying that I should be intimidated into believing differently because of "oh no what will the anti-semites say?" I should be in fear of what idiots think, so I should root for the taliban instead?
A self-declared hero of the Jews.
Really? I never claimed to be a hero, big shot. Can you keep the personal attacks out of this?
As for the others ... those like MassuhD ... well, they obviously don't understand the "simple math".
No you obviously don't if you think that the solution to corrupt politicians putting soldiers' lives in danger is to send the troops home in terror, fear, and surrender, instead of fighting stronger against the terrorists- the real solution.
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Re: "I want the US army to kill as many taliban/al qaeda/ muslim amalekites as possible.
- That's nice. It's a shame that the U.S. Government doesn't share your desire.
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So now you agree with me?
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The purpose of these leaks seems to be solely to interfere with Americas ability to wage war against a sworn enemy. I don't know why you are supporting a traitor like this. I believe that the war in Afghanistan is beneficial to the safety of American citizens.
I don't know why anyone would support this kind of treason, especially an American.
I dont see anything sinister in this war. The leaks seem to support the reasoning of the war effort.
America is not waging war against a sworn enemy. Instead America is dithering as it supports the Muslim tyrants who control Afghanistan (Karzi and his minions), while tying the hands of its troops behind their backs with ridiculous rules of engagement.
The whole mission of modernizing Afghanistan is a waste of time, resources and lives. Furthermore the current strategy of Gen. Petraeus, which is to win the "hearts and minds" of the muslim world has led to him blaming Israel for the deaths of U.S. troops.
Again it seems you don't consider the Taliban and Al Queda to be sworn enemies of America.... This is completely outrageous to me, as a victim of 9/11, because to me these are MY SWORN ENEMIES because of their involvement with planning, providing support for, and executing the deadly attack on American soil. Anything we can do to engage these bloodthirsty animals on their own ground is in Americas best interest.
And I fail to understand how attacking Afghanistan has anything to do with Israel... What are you trying to say about this? How is our war in Afghanistan having any effect on our relation with Israel? It seems like a stupid statement to me..
I never said I don't consider the Taliban and Al-Qaeda sworn enemies of America. I said that the U.S. is not putting up a fight, but is instead trying to "win the hearts and minds" of the Muslims in Afghanistan.
As for Israel it was not me but Gen David Petraeus who has said that Israel is undermining the so-called "war" in Afghanistan and Iraq by angering the Muslim world.
It is absentminded to blindly follow whatever the U.S. government is doing, which in this case is launching a "nation-building" exercise in Afghanistan instead of annihilating Al-Qaeda's networks that exist all over the world.
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The purpose of these leaks seems to be solely to interfere with Americas ability to wage war against a sworn enemy. I don't know why you are supporting a traitor like this. I believe that the war in Afghanistan is beneficial to the safety of American citizens.
I don't know why anyone would support this kind of treason, especially an American.
I dont see anything sinister in this war. The leaks seem to support the reasoning of the war effort.
America is not waging war against a sworn enemy. Instead America is dithering as it supports the Muslim tyrants who control Afghanistan (Karzi and his minions), while tying the hands of its troops behind their backs with ridiculous rules of engagement.
The whole mission of modernizing Afghanistan is a waste of time, resources and lives. Furthermore the current strategy of Gen. Petraeus, which is to win the "hearts and minds" of the muslim world has led to him blaming Israel for the deaths of U.S. troops.
Again it seems you don't consider the Taliban and Al Queda to be sworn enemies of America.... This is completely outrageous to me, as a victim of 9/11, because to me these are MY SWORN ENEMIES because of their involvement with planning, providing support for, and executing the deadly attack on American soil. Anything we can do to engage these bloodthirsty animals on their own ground is in Americas best interest.
And I fail to understand how attacking Afghanistan has anything to do with Israel... What are you trying to say about this? How is our war in Afghanistan having any effect on our relation with Israel? It seems like a stupid statement to me..
I never said I don't consider the Taliban and Al-Qaeda sworn enemies of America. I said that the U.S. is not putting up a fight, but is instead trying to "win the hearts and minds" of the Muslims in Afghanistan.
As for Israel it was not me but Gen David Petraeus who has said that Israel is undermining the so-called "war" in Afghanistan and Iraq by angering the Muslim world.
What is stupid if for you to blindly follow whatever the U.S. government is doing, which in this case in launching a "nation-building" exercise in Afghanistan instead of annihilating Al-Qaeda's networks that exists all over the world.
I have not heard that the action in Afghanistan is for the purpose of Nation building. I thought that the current Afghanistan administration is somewhat pro-American and permits American troops to perform operations against the Taliban in their midst.
Regarding the generals statement there is some question about what he was referring to. There is no way anyone can believe that America is in Afghanistan for the purpose of helping Israel, that is obvious because Israel is not fighting the Taliban but instead is in a conflict against organizations named Hamas, Hezbollah, and the other Iranian proxies. Is there a link between these organizations and the Taliban? I have not heard this... The only loose association is that these orgs are all Islamic organizations...
What difference is this leak from the leak of IDF documents which shamed the Israeli military? Why should the traitor not suffer the consequences of his action? Assange is a fool for doing what he has done, he is a traitor and deserving of the punishment for treason.
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The purpose of these leaks seems to be solely to interfere with Americas ability to wage war against a sworn enemy. I don't know why you are supporting a traitor like this. I believe that the war in Afghanistan is beneficial to the safety of American citizens.
I don't know why anyone would support this kind of treason, especially an American.
I dont see anything sinister in this war. The leaks seem to support the reasoning of the war effort.
America is not waging war against a sworn enemy. Instead America is dithering as it supports the Muslim tyrants who control Afghanistan (Karzi and his minions), while tying the hands of its troops behind their backs with ridiculous rules of engagement.
The whole mission of modernizing Afghanistan is a waste of time, resources and lives. Furthermore the current strategy of Gen. Petraeus, which is to win the "hearts and minds" of the muslim world has led to him blaming Israel for the deaths of U.S. troops.
Again it seems you don't consider the Taliban and Al Queda to be sworn enemies of America.... This is completely outrageous to me, as a victim of 9/11, because to me these are MY SWORN ENEMIES because of their involvement with planning, providing support for, and executing the deadly attack on American soil. Anything we can do to engage these bloodthirsty animals on their own ground is in Americas best interest.
And I fail to understand how attacking Afghanistan has anything to do with Israel... What are you trying to say about this? How is our war in Afghanistan having any effect on our relation with Israel? It seems like a stupid statement to me..
I never said I don't consider the Taliban and Al-Qaeda sworn enemies of America. I said that the U.S. is not putting up a fight, but is instead trying to "win the hearts and minds" of the Muslims in Afghanistan.
As for Israel it was not me but Gen David Petraeus who has said that Israel is undermining the so-called "war" in Afghanistan and Iraq by angering the Muslim world.
What is stupid if for you to blindly follow whatever the U.S. government is doing, which in this case in launching a "nation-building" exercise in Afghanistan instead of annihilating Al-Qaeda's networks that exists all over the world.
I have not heard that the action in Afghanistan is for the purpose of Nation building. I thought that the current Afghanistan administration is somewhat pro-American and permits American troops to perform operations against the Taliban in their midst.
Regarding the generals statement there is some question about what he was referring to. There is no way anyone can believe that America is in Afghanistan for the purpose of helping Israel, that is obvious because Israel is not fighting the Taliban but instead is in a conflict against organizations named Hamas, Hezbollah, and the other Iranian proxies. Is there a link between these organizations and the Taliban? I have not heard this... The only loose association is that these orgs are all Islamic organizations...
What difference is this leak from the leak of IDF documents which shamed the Israeli military? Why should the traitor not suffer the consequences of his action? Assange is a fool for doing what he has done, he is a traitor and deserving of the punishment for treason.
There is NO question as to what Gen. Petraeus was referring to Israel being an obstacle to U.S. operations in Afghanistan and Iraq, which are NATION-building operations. http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,44386.0.html (http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,44386.0.html) The debate over Petraeus' statements has been hashed over already on this forum.
As for the Afghan government they are as pro-American as FATAH is pro-American and pro-Israeli. In english Karazi will be clever and say what the U.S. wants him to say, but to his own people in their native tongue he will sing a different tune. Karazi is the one who is helping the Taliban survive by insisting on U.S. troops have strict rules of engagement that tie their hands behind their backs.
It is amazing the people on this forum fall for the Taqqiya that Muslims like Karazi practice.
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I want the US govt to STOP funding the enemies of Israel such as the PLO and Hezbollah.
- You, as do I, therefore, oppose "Peace in the Middle East", defined as "A Two-State Solution" by both the previous Republican Administrations as well as the current Democrat Administration.
Which, according to George W. Bush, makes BOTH YOU AND I a terrorist by definition, as he so stated in a major televised policy speech on Middle East Peace.
How does opposition to two-state final solution make one a terrorist? Can you prove this?
Re: But I also want the ISRAELI govt to stop funding the enemies of Israel.
- The Israeli Government no longer serves or represents the Jewish People living in Eretz Yisrael (if it ever actually did).
It serves the same masters who are keeping the U.S. Armed Forces engaged in two unwinnable wars in Mohammedan toilets called Iraq and Afghanistan.
OH PLEASE. Is this supposed to be an excuse? They are puppets of a secret cabal behind the scenes that not only controls their every action, but controls every other action in the world at the same time and so ALL actions, good are bad, are from the same source, a secretive cabal of dirty old men behind the scenes, and all of the disparate acts in the world have the same purpose? Give me a break. There are different issues, different policies, different interests etc etc. (Which is why I said one thing has nothing to do with the other - really, US war with Iraq has nothing to do with US arming of PLO terrorists). The Israeli govt makes its own choices and it chooses to go along with the wishes of the US president and US state dept. There have been times in the past when Israel has not done so. So where was the secret cabal master then? Fell asleep at the wheel? It is their own choice and these traitors are exercising their own free will when they sell out the Jewish people.
Who cares what the scum in those countries do to each other?
They will never change, and if we're not willing to use every weapon at our disposal to "eliminate" the problem in one month or less, then we should get the hell out of there and stop wasting our military resources and national wealth.
Good point, but I don't really consider it MY resources or wealth because I'm just a guest in the US. But what you say is exactly how I feel about Israel. Israel wastes the lives of soldiers for no reason when it could easily bomb away half of lebanon with no Israeli casualties. That is a waste of precious Jewish resources.
And YOU are convinced "all is well" as long as YOUR longing for revenge against any and all Mohammedans is served regardless of all the consequences for the Jewish People both here and in Israel.
Once again you are conflating the issues. First of all, these "Mohammedans" made war against my people, and war is what they must receive. It is not revenge, it is duty. Some people view it as revenge when they join the military but I don't necessarily see it that way myself - just to clarify my earlier comment.
But when you say "consequences for the Jewish People both here and in Israel" it again reflects the galut mentality of your other comments. You're deathly afraid of the neo-nazis blaming war with Taliban on American Jews / "neocons." And somehow you think that the more al qaeda are killed in Afghanistan, that somehow endangers the Jewish people in Israel? How so?
But what you fail to realize is that if the war with afghanistan , or iraq, or anything else is stopped, the neonazis are not going to give up on their Jew-hatred and stop blaming us for the world's problems. They'll blame something else on us. When al qaeda is emboldened and strengthened by US retreat, they'll blame the US peacenik Jews (who FAR outnumber the hawks) for "pulling out our troops and strengthening our enemies." Your problem is that not only you fear this antisemitism but you actually seem to believe their premises. It seems like you really do think that Jews are the ones orchestrating Iraq war and causing Americans to die for "their idea..."
If your intense HATRED is such that you're happy to see Israel and the United States vanish from history if just one more Muslim can be shot or bombed in Afghanistan or Iraq, then I suggest to you that all the Muzzies have to do in order to achieve their long sought goals is NOTHING.
Intense hatred is not what motivates me or my views. It's intense love of the Jewish people and all righteous people and a love of God. I also hate the enemies of my people who make war on us, and killing them is good, not bad. There's simply no way around that simple fact.
You are implying that Muslims dying in Afghanistan or Iraq is hurtful to the Jewish people. Aside from the neo-nazis' scapegoating of Jews angle which you already provided, please explain the logic behind that. Or is that the only logic?
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Re: "It is absentminded to blindly follow whatever the U.S. government is doing, which in this case is launching a "nation-building" exercise in Afghanistan instead of annihilating Al-Qaeda's networks that exist all over the world."
It is also an act of "wishful thinking" to continue insisting that "It is in America's interests to always side with whatever the State of Israel sees as its own interests".
Rabbi Kahane himself stated that the day was to soon arrive at which America would come to see the interests of Israel and its own as not identical.
Do I personally believe that it's in America's vital interests to TOTALLY back the State of Israel against the Islamic threat?
Yes.
But that has nothing to do with how our government in Washington sees things, and Washington has clearly shifted its position - first to "neutrality" - now to "Pro- PLO/Hamas", policy shifts no doubt dictated in part by increasing reliance on our Saudi and Red Chinese enemies for funding our ever increasing national debt.
And as a result of lots of propaganda combined with hard economic times, the average man in the streets is sick of hearing about Jews and Arabs and could care less what happens in the Middle East.
And that is a best case scenario , because many Americans beset with hard times wish that Jews and Israel would just go away and get off their evening news every day.
And for these reasons we simply can not afford to care only about how many Muslims can be killed in overseas wars which are not being won, and are causing the U.S. to become a weak debtor nation reliant on Saudi and Chinese money.
And it has ALWAYS been the Kahanist position that Israel should refuse aid from America and others, and that Jews should move to Eretz Yisrael, live as Jews on ALL our land, and fight Israel's wars without crying for U.S. intervention.
Supporting military adventurism which has lost popular support among Americans is hurting all free people everywhere, for if America collapses from within the whole planet is in for a very long bad time.
And the way to prove that these wars lack support is to have Congress reinstate the military draft for ALL eligible young Americans for mobilization and preparation for all out combat on two foreign fronts.
Then it will be seen how many who now call for continuing these wars will rush to enlist and go fight them.
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Once again Massuh, when did Israel ever ask America to attack Afghanistan? I think that idea is preposterous...
The reason we are there is to fight enemies of America, not enemies of Israel...
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And as a result of lots of propaganda combined with hard economic times, the average man in the streets is sick of hearing about Jews and Arabs and could care less what happens in the Middle East.
And that is a best case scenario , because many Americans beset with hard times wish that Jews and Israel would just go away and get off their evening news every day.
First of all, I don't see how it's "best case scenario" that people want to see Israel "go away," but in any case, do you really think that 'ending the war in Afghanistan's going to make Israel disappear from the news headlines? The headlines will simply change to different subjects but they will still obsess over Israel and so will the anti-semites. I think it is a delusion to think that if America stops fighting arabs overseas, suddenly the neo-nazis will give up their goal to scapegoat Israelis and American Jews for Americas problems.
And it has ALWAYS been the Kahanist position that Israel should refuse aid from America and others, and that Jews should move to Eretz Yisrael, live as Jews on ALL our land, and fight Israel's wars without crying for U.S. intervention.
I don't think anyone here has called for American intervention in Israeli affairs or American aid. Can't you see that military ventures in Iraq and Afghanistan constitute a completely separate issue? It appears you once again accept the premise of the propagandists that Israel is somehow the "reason" America is in the Middle East fighting these other countries. The American Govt is the reason. And they are responding to global islamic terror and specifically the act of 9/11 Muslim hijackers. That is the main motivating factor although America had reasons prior to 9/11 to go after Taliban, and Bush had a plan to invade Iraq well before that. But the Islamic terrorist hijackers of 9/11 play a huge role in Americans' general support for a "war on terror."
Supporting military adventurism which has lost popular support among Americans is hurting all free people everywhere, for if America collapses from within the whole planet is in for a very long bad time.
How much support has it lost? Maybe it lost support with democrats, but their savior obama increased the troop numbers to Afghanistan, and all his minions were ready and openly defended that strategy. I don't think it's true that "war on terror" lost popularity with Americans. Just with neo-nazis and fringe groups and far leftists. People generally argue about how the war on terror should be conducted, hence the "switch focus to Afghanistan" strategy as the obama foil to bush. They wouldn't be selling that if no one was buying.
And the way to prove that these wars lack support is to have Congress reinstate the military draft for ALL eligible young Americans for mobilization and preparation for all out combat on two foreign fronts.
Then it will be seen how many who now call for continuing these wars will rush to enlist and go fight them.
In that case everyone would have to because there is no choice involved. That's not a very good test. But there have been other wars in history that did not require a fullscale draft and yet they did have popularity. So I question the reliability of this idea as a measure of popularity.
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Re: "How does opposition to two-state final solution make one a terrorist? Can you prove this?
I don't agree with it, and don't need to prove it, because it is the governments of The United States and Israel which agree with it, and George W. Bush stated it on television declaring it official U.S. Policy.
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Re: "Is this supposed to be an excuse? They are puppets of a secret cabal behind the scenes...
It' certainly not my excuse, but it is a fact that they are controlled by behind the scenes cabals, comprised mainly of international banking and the international heads of state from most civilized countries.
However, this is no longer a secret.
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Re: "I don't really consider it MY resources or wealth because I'm just a guest in the US."
Well, then, you should be aware of the fact that hosts can begin to consider their "guests" as no longer being "welcome" and will end both their generosity as well as their hospitality.
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Re: "Once again you are conflating the issues."
I conflate nothing. I state my views succinctly and with precision.
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Re: "if the war with afghanistan , or iraq, or anything else is stopped, the neonazis are not going to give up on their Jew-hatred and stop blaming us for the world's problems. They'll blame something else on us. "
True.
And if the war is continued endlessly, those who hate us will continue to blame anything and everything on the Jew - AS THEY HAVE ALWAYS DONE THROUGHOUT HISTORY!
And this is because their hatred of all things Jew is not dependent on our collective or individual behaviors, or even whether or not we continue to exist as a people - this hate will continue uninterrupted until the coming of Moshiach ...
In fact, it is stated in our Scriptures that at the End of Days Ha'Shem will ensnare all the nations on Earth to come surround and wage war against Jerusalem, the city which He will use as a "millstone around the necks of the nations".
Read it for yourself.
As for the "neo-Nazis", I don't wish to see them grow in numbers, but they are of little concern to me.
Muslims have ALWAYS warred against ALL other men and nations, even each other.
We DO have an obligation to expel them from Eretz Yisrael and the U.S.A., but we are NOT obliged to destroy our own country by hunting them down everywhere on the entire planet.
That is the job of other nations to do for themselves.
Nice thought, hunting them and killing them worldwide for all eternity, but there isn't enough money on he planet to pay for such military ventures, and there never will be.
That is how all great nations on Earth fell -- they spread themselves thin trying to supervise and control too broad a land area, and fought endless wars far from home which they could not win.
These wars most usually started out with the best of intentions, but all ended up the same way - killing off the young generations, and profiting only the elite few who manufactured armaments and machines, together with the corrupt leadership accepting bribes from them.
There's really nothing new about Muslims and their treatment of the Jews throughout history, and neither is there anything new about the way Jews have been treated by Russians, Germans, Poles, British, Argentines, Americans, Italians, Hungarians, Croats, and all the rest.
History didn't begin two weeks ago, and those who don't learn its lessons are doomed to repeat it.
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The U.S. operations in Iraq and Afghanistan are hopeless nation-building operations that will result in failure. The U.S. should bomb any sites where Al-Qaeda or any organization that is planning on attacking the U.S., and secure its borders.
If the Muslim worlds wants to hate the U.S. or Israel that is fine as long as they hate us from the outside and not the inside.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSJacKcNzIo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSJacKcNzIo) Watch HaRav Meir Kahane, zecher tzadik livracha, at 5:00 state that it is better to have a distant enemy hate us from the outside rather than the inside.
The fact is that the current U.S. operations in Iraq and Afghanistan THREATEN U.S. and Israel's national security by shifting the focus away from Iran
http://jtf.org/america/america.iran.the.main.enemy.htm (http://jtf.org/america/america.iran.the.main.enemy.htm)
All the people on this forum who support U.S. operations in Iraq and Afghanistan are falling for neo-con propaganda that there are moderate Muslims who we should support.
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Re: "How does opposition to two-state final solution make one a terrorist? Can you prove this?
I don't agree with it, and don't need to prove it, because it is the governments of The United States and Israel which agree with it, and George W. Bush stated it on television declaring it official U.S. Policy.
Can you prove that he did so?
In other words, I'm asking you to provide a citation.
Re: "if the war with afghanistan , or iraq, or anything else is stopped, the neonazis are not going to give up on their Jew-hatred and stop blaming us for the world's problems. They'll blame something else on us. "
True.
And if the war is continued endlessly, those who hate us will continue to blame anything and everything on the Jew - AS THEY HAVE ALWAYS DONE THROUGHOUT HISTORY!
And this is because their hatred of all things Jew is not dependent on our collective or individual behaviors, or even whether or not we continue to exist as a people - this hate will continue uninterrupted until the coming of Moshiach ...
So then why do you base your opposition to the war on the fact that some non-Jews will see it as a Jewish endeavor and blame Jews for it? This was the thrust of the argument on your previous posts. My point was not merely to say that antisemitism will continue regardless of what is done in Iraq. My point was that that very fact discredits the 'counteracting of antisemitism and those who see Jewish influence as all-encompassing' as a motive for course of action in any of these places - iraq, afghanistan, or anywhere else.
In fact, it is stated in our Scriptures that at the End of Days Ha'Shem will ensnare all the nations on Earth to come surround and wage war against Jerusalem, the city which He will use as a "millstone around the necks of the nations".
Read it for yourself.
Read it for yourself implies that I don't agree. But I never denied any of this. In fact, you are simply confirming the point that I made above. You acknowledged the beginning of that confirmation by stating "True."
We DO have an obligation to expel them from Eretz Yisrael and the U.S.A., but we are NOT obliged to destroy our own country by hunting them down everywhere on the entire planet.
I don't agree that hunting them down destroys our country or destroys the US.
That is the job of other nations to do for themselves.
That's a pipe dream because most countries support them or agree with them, harbor them, finance them, train them, etc etc. Obviously the Muslim countries will not hunt down Islamic terror groups that target OUR country (or the US). So that IS the job of those being targeted because no one else is going to do it for them.
"Where there is no man, be a man" - Pirkei Avot, Rabbi Hillel.
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This "back and forth" is tiring.
I might continue with it later, but if not, it really doesn't matter.
Often I feel we're on the same page but perhaps there's something being lost in translation, so respectfully I'm going to move on.
I can not change your opinions, exactly as no military force is going to civilize and end Muslim insanity.
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This "back and forth" is tiring.
I might continue with it later, but if not, it really doesn't matter.
Often I feel we're on the same page but perhaps there's something being lost in translation, so respectfully I'm going to move on.
I can not change your opinions, exactly as no military force is going to civilize and end Muslim insanity.
Well at least provide some sort of proof to what you're claiming about Bush and American policy. Please provide a citation to this speech you're referring to.
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Re: "The fact is that the current U.S. operations in Iraq and Afghanistan THREATEN U.S. and Israel's national security by shifting the focus away from Iran"
Very true; a point I failed to bring out in my arguments.
I was concentrating entirely on the costs in blood and treasure.
Whacking both Saudi Arabia and Iran after 9/11 would have gone a long way in ending international terrorism.
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Re: "Gary Berntsen's book, Jawbreaker
Questions:
1 - What legal authority does the CIA have for placing a military "Field Commander" in Afghanistan, in Iraq, or in any other theatre of war?
A similar authority [and obligation] which entitled Baruch Goldstein [ZK"L HY"D] to confront Muslim Nazis in Israel unilaterally.
2 - If the Constitution of the United States of America forbids any branch of government except the Congress of the United States to declare war and wage war against an enemy, exclusively forbidding both the President and Judicial Branches from doing so ...
Then how is it that we are told we are fighting several wars on several different fronts for almost ten years ongoing which are supposed to be part of "The War On Terror!", and we have already lost both of them at the cost of bankrupting the entire United States, and yet readers here find no reason to question these illegal overseas military adventures?
vs.
After 9/11 I would have told both Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan, that they had exactly 14 days to hand over Bin Laden and ALL of his accomplices and backers, or face nuclear annihilation, and I would have carried out my ultimatum using only air power.
You appear to be supporting two ideas which are in conflict with each other. How do you understand your proposed idea of nuclear warfare against Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan would be constitutional, where as the President putting the CIA in Afghanistan would not?
I do not disagree with your idea, the "14 days" option, as far as I see that is one of the best options a military power could evoke against the Islamic threat the world faces.
I disagree with how war is conducted in these parts of the world, and I think we are in agreement about this; there is rarely a reason to put boots on the ground when we have our Air Force bombers, and unmanned drones. -- A million Afghanis or Iraqis are not worth one American fingernail.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Military_Force_Against_Terrorists
From my understanding, Congress approved President Bush to seek out international terrorists involved in 9/11 wherever they may be [esp. Afghanistan]. Am I mistaken?
On the separate issue of Iraq, we have disposed of Saddam, and now we should commandeer the Iraqi oil fields for use by the Western world in a way which puts no finances into Islamic hands. Any position which keeps US troops in harms by trying to police Iraq I am against, but I am for securing and using the Iraq oil fields until they run dry [as much as the West would benefit from cheap oil, it benefits most by keeping money from Islamic hands].
3 - If we are in fact waging a "War On Terror" without which we here in the U.S. would be in danger here in our own country (''if we don't fight them over there, we'll have to fight them here") ...
Then how is it that a mulatto Marxist Muslim who is not even an American citizen is in the White House, then how is it that Muzzies are building a mosque at Ground Zero, and how is it that the U.S. has been funding and arming the PLO and Hamas - calling for Israel's surrender of Judea, Samaria, Gaza, and Jerusalem - all as part of of Republican Middle East policy - long before Obama even entered the picture?
Because the US government, traditionally, takes one step forward and two steps back most of the time [partially because politicians are almost universally corrupt, while being afraid of doing anything not PC like confronting Islam as Islam instead as "extremists which corrupt a great religion".]. -- If we had a righteous Ben Noach Kahanist as US president things would be different [obviously]. I am very uneasy with how all US presidents have acted for at least the past 40-50 years, actually longer. I do not know of any solution to the plague of incompetent and immoral leaders which are elected every year, aside from praying to G-d [with Emunah and Bitachon].
To me it seems obvious that in preventing fighting a "war at home" an anti-Islamist "McCarthy" needs to be put in place w/o red tape getting in his way, and Islamic immigration needs to be halted and reversed.
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Well Massuh, I hope that you'll respond to my request.
I hope that you're aware that when I ask you for a citation, it is not merely because I "disbelieve" something you're saying or that I want to produce the appearance of a challenge to your view - I am sincerely interested to know what your statement is based on and determine whether or not I also think it's true or a correct interpretation of the event/source at hand. I'm certainly open to you being correct if I request a source. I just won't assume it since I'm surprised by what you're saying and would like to see verification. Thank you.
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Re: "citation...I just won't assume it since I'm surprised by what you're saying and would like to see verification. Thank you."
Fair enough.
I don't have the time at present to research his speeches and quote the exact one, but I will try to do that at some future time.
It was a speech given during the year in which he was pushing "The Roadmap to Peace in the Middle East".