JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: wonga66 on September 16, 2010, 06:33:23 AM
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Drugs, women, alcohol: looks like some Breslovers really let their peyos down in Uman! http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3953947,00.html
(http://torahmusings.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/uman.jpg)
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And violence against Ukrainian Police and citizens i heard the bars were full
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And violence against Ukrainian Police and citizens i heard the bars were full
yes also they murdered an Ukranian kid and kept his blood for next Pesach
this article from YNet is a Nazi article both of you (Mord and Wonga) hate Torah and especially Hassidic Jews it's known
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Would you please have the courtesy not to insult Hasidic Jews on a site such as JTF ? Do you think your photo and your comments on "hanky-panky" or "drugs, women, alcohol" are representative of what Hasidism is ?
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Pure Nazi lies from ynet
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Well I know personally two American Breslovers who were vigorously (ie black eyes and knocked out tooth) beaten up in Uman by the "Breslov Modesty Patrol" in 2004 for having a 'lliason' with a Ukrainian blonde.
An Orthodox Jew is not allowed to have sex with his wife for 12 days per month, and when presented with available & willing Ukrainian gentile females, who are the third most beautiful women in the world, some find it a temptation beyond endurance.
Breslov FFBs are pretty OK.
But Breslov attracts droves of a certain type of BT, many of whom have criminal backgrounds, and who can't help but temporarily lapse in to the vernacular when given the chance.
What has to be said in praise of Breslov (which is far from being a monolithic, unified group - with no rebbe and many factions) is that like Chabad they have always been strongly against "Land for Peace", unlike the other Hassidic & Haredi groups, and regularly make forays in to Shchem and Yericho.
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Why don't you come to the Hebrew forum and try to spread your anti-Semitic filth there?
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An Orthodox Jew is not allowed to have sex with his wife for 12 days per month, and when presented with available & willing Ukrainian gentile females, who are the third most beautiful women in the world, some find it a temptation beyond endurance.
Yes, of course, these sex freaks cannot refrain for a couple of days, so they don't go there to honour their Rebbe but for the whores...
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Why don't you come to the Hebrew forum and try to spread your anti-Semitic filth there?
I could. But "English is a unique language, in which some things can be expressed better even than in Hebrew, even in Torah concepts!" (Rabbi Chaim Zimmerman)
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Why don't you come to the Hebrew forum and try to spread your anti-Semitic filth there?
I could. But "English is a unique language, in which some things can be expressed better even than in Hebrew, even in Torah concepts!" (Rabbi Chaim Zimmerman)
In other words you don't speak Hebrew
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Why don't you come to the Hebrew forum and try to spread your anti-Semitic filth there?
I could. But "English is a unique language, in which some things can be expressed better even than in Hebrew, even in Torah concepts!" (Rabbi Chaim Zimmerman)
In other words you don't speak Hebrew
no i love Chassidim Lubavitcher i dislike some of the fakirs at uman .I bet Wonga speaks Hebrew
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In other words you don't speak Hebrew
בטח אני יכול לדבר עברית, זרג
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In other words you don't speak Hebrew
בטח אני יכול לדבר עברית, זרג
You call me a "d*ck" yet you call yourself a Torah Jew.
and this is no Hebrew. You just translated this using Google translator or something.
בטח - Sure.
אני - I.
יכול - Can
לדבר - Speak
עברית - Hebrew
One who speaks Hebrew will understand that the gramatically correct form is: בטח שאני מדבר עברית
Find a girl you lifeless zero
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Why don't you come to the Hebrew forum and try to spread your anti-Semitic filth there?
I could. But "English is a unique language, in which some things can be expressed better even than in Hebrew, even in Torah concepts!" (Rabbi Chaim Zimmerman)
You see, you're not even trying to deny that you spread anti-Semitic filth ! That aspect of the question did not bother you ! The fact that you did not react to that is very telling.
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Why don't you come to the Hebrew forum and try to spread your anti-Semitic filth there?
I could. But "English is a unique language, in which some things can be expressed better even than in Hebrew, even in Torah concepts!" (Rabbi Chaim Zimmerman)
In other words you don't speak Hebrew
no i love Chassidim Lubavitcher i dislike some of the fakirs at uman .I bet Wonga speaks Hebrew
What?
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this article from YNet is a Nazi article both of you (Mord and Wonga) hate Torah and especially Hassidic Jews it's known
Wonga yes, Mord no.
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Find a girl you lifeless zero
Plain as a pikestaff.
איזה מין פי טבעת
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this article from YNet is a Nazi article both of you (Mord and Wonga) hate Torah and especially Hassidic Jews it's known
Wonga yes, Mord no.
Thanks DBF
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I dislike the whole yearly Uman carnival. Jews shouldn't make pilgrimage into Cossack lands. That said- some of the chasidim who go there are so pious to the point of questionable sanity- a bunch of them were seen walking in the airport with vails hanged over their hats so they can only see the floor.
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Wonga, what is the point of your post?
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Of course I think this whole topic is inflamatory and divisive. wonga is quite a breed. Shame on him for doing this during the Ten days of Awe. What kind of year will Wonga have? Will he be written in the book of life, or maybe more appropriately in the book of death?
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Wonga, what is the point of your post?
And more important- i demand to know which women are ranked 1st and 2nd.
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this article from YNet is a Nazi article both of you (Mord and Wonga) hate Torah and especially Hassidic Jews it's known
Wonga yes, Mord no.
Right! Exactly what I was thinking. Thanks for making the post DBF.
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Re: "You call me a "d*ck" yet you call yourself a Torah Jew. "
He called you a duck?
Why?
That doesn't even make sense!
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Wonga, what is the point of your post?
30,000-50,000 right-wingish Orthodox Jews travel to the Jewish blood-soaked Ukraine at great expense every year, based solely on the dying words of Rabbi Nachman that "I will drag by his peyos out of Gehennom whoever prays at my kever on Rosh Hashana", & you ask what is the point of the post?!
I can foresee that number rising to 100,000 quite soon!
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And more important- i demand to know which women are ranked 1st and 2nd.
1 Czech females
2 Hungarian females
3 Ukrainian/Russian females
4 Polish females
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Wonga, what is the point of your post?
30,000-50,000 right-wingish Orthodox Jews travel to the Jewish blood-soaked Ukraine at great expense every year, based solely on the dying words of Rabbi Nachman that "I will drag by his peyos out of Gehennom whoever prays at my kever on Rosh Hashana", & you ask what is the point of the post?!
I can foresee that number rising to 100,000 quite soon!
I find your sarcasms toward great Hassidic Rabbis offensive, particularly on a week like this one. I remember previous posts of yours where you showed similar contempt for Sephardic Jews. What next ?
You have the right to be non-religious, but then at least respect those who are.
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It is not sarcasm. Rabbi Nachman - "The Advice Rebbe" - was the great grandson of the Baal Shem Tov. He was controversial in his own lifetime, and was spurned by his grandfather, the Shpoleh Zeide. R.Nachman's teachings are tremendous. He said that "my light will endure until the Moshiach". He has been dead 200 years. He had no succesor. Unlike Chabad, who's influence is waining, Breslov's is growing. This is a phenomenon that warrants study.
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You do realize that it's not just Breslaver's going to Uman, right?
There are all types of Jews who engage in this somewhat pointless custom. Really, lots of different Jews there. Guess you've never been there? I know people who have.
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It's not really the article that's antisemitic. Because the article points out that there are ISRAELI TOURISTS (read, non-chasidim and non-orthodox) who go there for the party scene. The real antisemitic part was the post that wonga crafted out of it.
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The real antisemitic part was the post that wonga crafted out of it.
Pray tell: where exactly did I post anything "antisemitic". You reprobate.
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The real antisemitic part was the post that wonga crafted out of it.
Pray tell: where exactly did I post anything "antisemitic". You reprobate.
"looks like some Breslovers really let their peyos down in Uman!"
"An Orthodox Jew is not allowed to have sex with his wife for 12 days per month, and when presented with available & willing Ukrainian gentile females, who are the third most beautiful women in the world, some find it a temptation beyond endurance."
You imply that Breslavers go to Uman for hookers and that Orthodox Jewish men are more prone to have sex with hookers (ukranian or otherwise). This assertion is not antisemitic? Let's keep in mind that having sex with hookers is a morally reprehensible act. Is this much different from a medieval antisemite claiming that Jews are prone to poisoning wells and to eat children's blood in their matzah?
Cut the name-calling, you child.
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From the article:
"Oh, you know, we try our best," says one of them. "People like me come here too and that's good. I don't see myself becoming religious or anything, but we'll come here next year, too."
Jews from all walks of life go on this strange trip to uman.
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Why do we read the section dealing with incest and forbidden sexual relations in Vayikra davka on Yom Kippur?
Because the Jew has more potential for kedusha: therefore he has a bigger yetzer hara, including for sex.
Most Orthodox Jews succeed in overcoming their sexual yetzer hara. Including those in Uman. But some succumb to the temptation.
And when the Jew falls, he can fall big and en masse eg the Baal Peor incident in the Midbar: "If a man feels an unstoppable urge come upon him, he should dress himself in black and partake himself to a city where he is not known" (Talmud).
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"If a man feels an unstoppable urge come upon him, he should dress himself in black and partake himself to a city where he is not known" (Talmud).
What's the relevance of citing this?
Contextually it has nothing to do with what you're saying. All men have urges. The point of this Talmudic passage (which is not readily apparent to the uninitiated), is that a person should go through a whole ritual and process that's going to make him rethink what he's doing and give time for the urge to fade and for him to get hold of himself and realize what a mistake he is making. Dressing in an unusual way, travelling a long distance, etc, gives time for thinking things through and letting instantaneous desires fade. This was their advice for AVOIDING sin, not for engaging in it in some other place!
As to: "Why do we read the section dealing with incest and forbidden sexual relations in Vayikra davka on Yom Kippur?"
I'm sure whatever the reason it has absolutely NOTHING to do with breslaver's or Uman. So you failed to make a coherent point.
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I only skimmed the article but did not get the impression that religious Jews were engaging in the illicit activity. It sounded more like Israelis tell the wife they are going there to see the Rabbi's grave and then use the trip as an excuse to party.
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I was booked but canceled my trip when I found out that Anna Chapman wasn't going to show! :'(
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Re: ""If a man feels an unstoppable urge come upon him, he should dress himself in black and partake himself to a city where he is not known" (Talmud). "
So...what you are saying is something about Johnny Cash? The Man in Black? Are you making fun of Nashville?
Is that what you just said?
Well is it?
IS IT!!!!!!!
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Re: ""If a man feels an unstoppable urge come upon him, he should dress himself in black and partake himself to a city where he is not known" (Talmud). "
So...what you are saying is something about Johnny Cash? The Man in Black? Are you making fun of Nashville?
Is that what you just said?
Well is it?
IS IT!!!!!!!
I was booked but canceled my trip when I found out that Anna Chapman wasn't going to show! Cry
:::D :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D
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There is not a single religious group in the world which does not have its share of "imbalanced" individuals who are attracted to such groups precisely because they can serve as a "cover" for their "over the edge" thoughts and behavior patterns which would otherwise stand out like a sore thumb in the overall "normal" population.
There are no exceptions.
And it's been this way since the first day on Earth.
Anyone who believes that a particular religious order is comprised of all "holy men" and "holy women" living lives of devout purity, selflessness, and sanctification, is unbelievably naive and needs to get out more.
I am not criticizing religious orders and followings as such; only pointing out the obvious fact that there's no shortage of nutjobs and others who follow and join all religious groups for all the wrong reasons.
Unholiness is always attracted to holiness.
Nor is it a secret that people born and raised within these groups, often to the third generation or more, know nothing of the world outside their small social circle, take their memberships and teachings 'for granted', do not see themselves as individuals who have repented and 'returned', and can frequently be tempted to stray from the fold just to "see what it is they've been missing".
It happens inside every faith community and just because it happens does not discredit the teachings and faith of the group itself - it's just the human condition showing itself.
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There is not a single religious group in the world which does not have its share of "imbalanced" individuals who are attracted to such groups precisely because they can serve as a "cover" for their "over the edge" thoughts and behavior patterns which would otherwise stand out like a sore thumb in the overall "normal" population.
There are no exceptions.
And it's been this way since the first day on Earth.
Anyone who believes that a particular religious order is comprised of all "holy men" and "holy women" living lives of devout purity, selflessness, and sanctification, is unbelievably naive and needs to get out more.
I am not criticizing religious orders and followings as such; only pointing out the obvious fact that there's no shortage of nutjobs and others who follow and join all religious groups for all the wrong reasons.
Unholiness is always attracted to holiness.
Nor is it a secret that people born and raised within these groups, often to the third generation or more, know nothing of the world outside their small social circle, take their memberships and teachings 'for granted', do not see themselves as individuals who have repented and 'returned', and can frequently be tempted to stray from the fold just to "see what it is they've been missing".
It happens inside every faith community and just because it happens does not discredit the teachings and faith of the group itself - it's just the human condition showing itself.
Ok, but this is a far cry from claiming that the Breslaver's trip to Uman is all about hookers, or that orthodox jewish men are more inclined to have sex with hookers. I think the post that was formulated out of that article to start this thread was somebody trying to spin something.
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Just because someone with a beard puts on black clothes and a hat, flies to Ukraine to smoke dope, get drunk, and get laid for cheap, doesn't necessarily mean they are there because they're living as Breslov Hasidim.
Out of 30,000 pilgrims only about a hundred caroused in the town.
YNET writes stuff like that because "it's a good read" to attract viewers, whereas the more correct title "29,900 devout Jews behave like saints while on pilgrimage to Rabbi's burial site!" just doesn't quite "have the same 'ring' to it" !
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Nobody ever suggested that any one religious group within Judaism is perfect. But it seems that some members take special pleasure in demeaning and denigrating other Jews. Doing this is a chillul Hashem and a Jew should do some Teshuva to repent for their wickedness. I recall the sins of Korach and the rebellion against Moses, and the sin of the spies when the entire nation was brought to tears because of the Lashon Hara of ten of these spies.
The Children of Israel are a diverse lot. I look at all Jews as part of the same soul, as we all believe that we stood there at Mount Sinai and heard the voice of G-d. I do not try to cause divisiveness between Ashkenaz or Sephard, Chassid or Modern Orthodox, or Mizrahi... Why should we cause divisions within our own people? We have enough enemies as it is...
I often grow impatient and disappointed when I read some of the accusations against religious Jews. Nobody says that they don't do wrong. But there is a way of rebuking a Jew which results in better outcomes than denigrating them and demeaning them. A righteous Jew should try to elevate a fellow Jew, no matter how different he is from ourselves. I righteous Jew should not look down on people who are not on the same level, nor should they feel inferior to a Jew who has attained a higher spiritual level. Every human is on a path leading toward their destiny.
Meditate long and hard on our present circumstances and devise a plan to achieve the goals of the Jewish nation.
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Just because someone with a beard puts on black clothes and a hat, flies to Ukraine to smoke dope, get drunk, and get laid for cheap, doesn't necessarily mean they are there because they're living as Breslov Hasidim.
Out of 30,000 pilgrims only about a hundred caroused in the town.
YNET writes stuff like that because "it's a good read" to attract viewers, whereas the more correct title "29,900 devout Jews behave like saints while on pilgrimage to Rabbi's burial site!" just doesn't quite "have the same 'ring' to it" !
lol
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Wonga, you need to stop playing dumb with me. I'm well aware of the fact that Jews go to Uman to visit this Rabbi's grave. I was merely asking your intentions for posting an article about Chasidic and other Jews going to Uman to sleep around with prostitutes. There are good Jews and bad ones, and Jews in between as there are good Christians, not so good ones and bad ones. Why do you choose to emphasize the bad things these Jews do on a Jewish forum? What do you hope to get out of this?
Are you by any chance a formerly Orthodox/Chasidic Jew turned secular with resentment issues? That's how you're coming across to me at least.
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Wonga, what is the point of your post?
And more important- i demand to know which women are ranked 1st and 2nd.
+1
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This needs to stop
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This needs to stop
I agree, this kind of thread needs to stop..
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I see that Wonga66 hasn't answered my last question about his reasons for posting something like this. I'll be happy to lock this thread.