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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dr. Dan on September 27, 2010, 07:03:29 AM

Title: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Dr. Dan on September 27, 2010, 07:03:29 AM
Has anyone seen or heard this on fox news this morning?  Elijiah Mohammed is finally coming :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: TheCoon on September 27, 2010, 07:18:43 AM
Better tie myself down to something heavy so the mothership can't suck me up.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: angryChineseKahanist on September 27, 2010, 08:52:19 AM

will the mothership only suck up the white race?
what about non-whites and mix-ups?
what about blacks who are partly white?
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Dr. Dan on September 27, 2010, 09:09:43 AM

will the mothership only suck up the white race?
what about non-whites and mix-ups?
what about blacks who are partly white?



I think they will leave poop and dark chocolate behind.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Spiraling Leopard on September 27, 2010, 09:42:11 AM
The 'martians' landed some 1400 years ago somewhere around mekka.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: syyuge on September 27, 2010, 10:07:21 AM
The 'martians' landed some 1400 years ago somewhere around mekka.
;D :laugh: :laugh: :::D :::D :::D
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: MassuhDGoodName on September 27, 2010, 10:30:26 AM
It's not beyond the realm of possibility that we have been, and are currently being visited from beings outside of our Solar System.

Wasn't too long ago that anyone denying that the Earth was flat, had four corners, and four winds, was put to death as a heretic.

And make no mistake about it, the ancient Rabbis also insisted on the flat Earth as Torah Truth and denounced any who would dare question it.

Even just recently the deceased Lubavitcher Rabbi Menachem Schneerson wrote to the most prominent Jewish scientists worldwide to denounce them for their "anti-Torah" stance in their having accepted as fact that the Earth and other planets revolved around the Sun.

He insisted that Torah PROVES the ULTIMATE TRUTH that the Earth is the center of the entire known Universe, and all of Creation revolves around a stationary Earth.

He also claimed there could be no life forms beyond Earth other than bacteria.

Recently, the world was astonished at new military technology allowing the U.S. to create Stealth Technology, allowing the building of cruise missiles and bomber jets which can not be detected with radar.

Prior to the invention of Stealth technology, all would have denounced the concept of a "stealth" invisibility as mere foolishness, insisting that radar would spot any large hot object in its path.

And today, already, newer high technology has already developed "invisibility cloaks" now being utilized on everything from military tanks to trench coats.

Ten years ago, everyone would have ridiculed people suggesting invisibility cloak technology as "the stuff of comic books". 

My point:  Just because present Earth technology doesn't detect the entry of "UFO" crafts into our atmosphere does not necessarily prove that such events do not regularly occur, and if such events occur, it is reasonable to think that beings advanced enough to travel light years at will are also beings advanced enough to use technology which permits them to evade detection by current day Earth technology.

And if the stories about aliens are true, I feel really sorry for the aliens, because any alien beings wanting to become involved with humans on planet Earth must be gluttons for punishment.

Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: MassuhDGoodName on September 27, 2010, 10:41:51 AM
There is so much evidence that these military experts are telling the truth that it is very foolish to reject their testimonies out of hand.

To that end, there is so much evidence that UFO's really do exist that it is foolish to ridicule the idea as "impossible".

The weight of evidence available in accumulated dossiers, unaltered photos, and witness testimonies gathered by the military, intelligence agencies, and police from all over the globe, which have recently been made available to the general public, would indicate that something is going on far beyond our current level of accepted understanding and belief.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: angryChineseKahanist on September 27, 2010, 11:35:15 AM

so massa, you're saying that the torah says the wourld is flat?
when i was a boy, i saw that the world is clearly roundish when I was on top of the twin towers. and i didn't see any sea monsters either.

anyway, i better practise my ebonics so i don't get sucked up by a ufo we've been warned about.


Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 27, 2010, 11:54:36 AM
Even just recently the deceased Lubavitcher Rabbi Menachem Schneerson wrote to the most prominent Jewish scientists worldwide to denounce them for their "anti-Torah" stance in their having accepted as fact that the Earth and other planets revolved around the Sun.

He insisted that Torah PROVES the ULTIMATE TRUTH that the Earth is the center of the entire known Universe, and all of Creation revolves around a stationary Earth.

He also claimed there could be no life forms beyond Earth other than bacteria.


So, what's your problem, you believed him? 

There are plenty of rabbis who say otherwise.   I've asked my own rabbi about this issue and he said it's certainly possible there are other lifeforms out there or other intelligent life somewhere in the vast universe.  Sometimes "Torah-true position" is really just one man's opinion of what the Torah-true position is but there can be other opinions (especially when it's something speculative like this that is never said explicitly anywhere).


Quote
And if the stories about aliens are true, I feel really sorry for the aliens, because any alien beings wanting to become involved with humans on planet Earth must be gluttons for punishment.



"become involved" hehehe that's quite an interesting way of terming it.   If the stories about aliens are true, they capture humans in order to probe their anuses and subject them to cruel torture.    If the stories are true, I feel sorry for the victims and for all human beings.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 27, 2010, 11:55:28 AM
There is so much evidence that these military experts are telling the truth that it is very foolish to reject their testimonies out of hand.

What exactly constitutes "evidence" that someone is telling the truth?
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: syyuge on September 27, 2010, 12:00:57 PM
We should not really support the existence of the ufo. Otherwise if and when the ufo's arrive, the alzazeera will shout at the top of its voice - See it is a pure Zionist conspiracy.
;D   :::D
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Rubystars on September 27, 2010, 12:16:47 PM

will the mothership only suck up the white race?
what about non-whites and mix-ups?

Most blacks have almost as strong of a hatred for other types of people as they do for whites, because other types of people tend to be smarter and more successful than blacks and show that even being a discriminated against minority doesn't keep them from success. Nonwhite races that do better than blacks in American society prove that all the claims of racism keeping blacks down are false.

A few tend to consider non-black non-whites as "people of color" in an attempt to pretend as if everyone is in an alliance against evil whitey. They don't take into account that most people white or not, see blacks for what they are: a bunch of degenerates.

Quote
what about blacks who are partly white?

That would be almost every black in America but you know they would never acknowledge that. Notice how they tend to be smarter than Africans. It's partly due to nutrition but that's not the whole picture.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: MassuhDGoodName on September 27, 2010, 01:19:53 PM
Re:  "What exactly constitutes "evidence" that someone is telling the truth? "

Having a sharp Jewish lawyer constitutes all the evidence needed.     :P
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: TheCoon on September 27, 2010, 01:21:33 PM
That's a good point, Ruby. Every single black in America has some white genes in them, provided their ancestry comes from slaves. There was a show on this year where famous people had their ancestry mapped via ancestry.com. Emmitt Smith was on it and it turned out he had some of the purest black genes in all of America at around 85% negro with the rest being white and native american. Kinda puts it in perspective. You wonder how many whites have negro in their gene pool, though this is probably traceable by how many times you eat at Popeyes or KFC per month.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Harzel on September 27, 2010, 01:27:16 PM
Does someone have a link ?

I am yet to see any hard evidence that aliens visit earth. So far I am aware of lots of [censored] stories about alien abducting humans, raping and sodomizing humans, mutilating cows, etc.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Rubystars on September 27, 2010, 02:02:20 PM
I don't really think aliens from another civilization out in space are visiting earth.

I do think it's possible that people may be having very vivid dreams or hallucinations, or even demonic visitation in the form of what looks like the typical "aliens" (some stories about Sidhe from Ireland or other similar stories from Europe describe similar appearance and experience of being abducted. Australian aboriginals had paintings that looked the same, etc.). 

Also it's possible that some stuff was genetically engineered and looks freaky. There have been news stories about embryos made from cow and human DNA, for example, but the claim is that these are stopped before they develop beyond a certain point. Who knows how far the unethical experimentation has been allowed to progress with such stuff in reality.

Before people start saying "oh no she's a nutcase" read it and weep:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/371378.stm

Quote
ACT said it had no intention of attempting to use the human cloning procedure to start a pregnancy - its aim was "therapeutic cloning" not "reproductive cloning", it said.

That time maybe. Also they say that the embryo doesn't have cow DNA, but it would have cow dna in the mitochondria in the cells.


G-d only knows how far this stuff goes.

I am pro-science but human life needs to be respected more than that.

Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: angryChineseKahanist on September 27, 2010, 02:17:06 PM
I don't really think aliens from another civilization out in space are visiting earth.

I do think it's possible that people may be having very vivid dreams or hallucinations, or even demonic visitation in the form of what looks like the typical "aliens" (some stories about Sidhe from Ireland or other similar stories from Europe describe similar appearance and experience of being abducted. Australian aboriginals had paintings that looked the same, etc.).

Also it's possible that some stuff was genetically engineered and looks freaky. There have been news stories about embryos made from cow and human DNA, for example, but the claim is that these are stopped before they develop beyond a certain point. Who knows how far the unethical experimentation has been allowed to progress with such stuff in reality.

Before people start saying "oh no she's a nutcase" read it and weep:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/371378.stm

Quote
ACT said it had no intention of attempting to use the human cloning procedure to start a pregnancy - its aim was "therapeutic cloning" not "reproductive cloning", it said.

That time maybe. Also they say that the embryo doesn't have cow DNA, but it would have cow dna in the mitochondria in the cells.


G-d only knows how far this stuff goes.

I am pro-science but human life needs to be respected more than that.





this usually happens when people use cocaine.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: angryChineseKahanist on September 27, 2010, 02:24:10 PM

massah? hello? I hope you didn't think I was criticising you...
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: syyuge on September 27, 2010, 02:26:16 PM
The incidents of ufos are very interesting but their scientific explanations are even more interesting. Most of them converge on to the bright venus. The daytime sightings and their scientific explanations are almost rare.

The earlier ufos were mechanical objects, then they evolved in to electrical objects, then elecro-magnetic and then electronic objects.

Fortunately most of them are non-stealthy from the radars and the eyes.

Obviously when the man develops invisibility then the ufos may also become invisible.  
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Rubystars on September 27, 2010, 02:29:06 PM
this usually happens when people use cocaine.

I thought cocaine caused people to be more awake and alert, not cause vivid dreams, although I could be wrong.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Alex37 on September 27, 2010, 03:09:05 PM
I find no reason to believe that there is no life outside Earth, but I don't believe that aliens actually came here.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: MassuhDGoodName on September 27, 2010, 03:36:41 PM
Re:  "I thought cocaine caused people to be more awake and alert, not cause vivid dreams, although I could be wrong. "

In large doses and with continued usage it produces hallucinations and delirium in users.

It's one of the all time worst drugs ever.

Don't ever even try it.

If you use it, QUIT.

It's only good for legitimate medical use as an anaesthetic.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 27, 2010, 05:41:31 PM
Also it's possible that some stuff was genetically engineered and looks freaky. There have been news stories about embryos made from cow and human DNA, for example, but the claim is that these are stopped before they develop beyond a certain point.   Who knows how far the unethical experimentation has been allowed to progress with such stuff in reality.

Before people start saying "oh no she's a nutcase" read it and weep:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/371378.stm

Quote
ACT said it had no intention of attempting to use the human cloning procedure to start a pregnancy - its aim was "therapeutic cloning" not "reproductive cloning", it said.

That time maybe. Also they say that the embryo doesn't have cow DNA, but it would have cow dna in the mitochondria in the cells.


G-d only knows how far this stuff goes.

I am pro-science but human life needs to be respected more than that.




Rubystars, I'm disappointed.  I think your comments are ill-informed and based on paranoia rather than fact.

Quote
There have been news stories about embryos made from cow and human DNA, for example, but the claim is that these are stopped before they develop beyond a certain point. 

The claim?   They are "claiming" or simply informing us about it because that is true!  Harvesting the stem cells from an embryo destroys the embryo so that it can no longer be carried to term if implanted into a surrogate.

Btw, this study is from 1999, which was BEFORE the Bush ban on creating new embryonic stem cell lines, just for reference.   So it was completely legal and justified research.

Quote
Who knows how far the unethical experimentation has been allowed to progress with such stuff in reality.

I don't see that this study was unethical, nor that unethical experimentation is allowed by US law in scientific research.   Institutions like Advanced Cell technology, major universities, hospitals, research institutes, etc obey the guidelines set out by US law for ethics in research because 1. the vast majority of scientists (if not all of them - there's never been a poll as far as I know) agree that ethical guidelines are important to put limitations in science and ensure that only humane research is conducted, and 2. these researchers will be denied funding and lose their jobs if they don't follow these guidelines (and possibly face legal prosecution as well).

Quote
Quote
ACT said it had no intention of attempting to use the human cloning procedure to start a pregnancy - its aim was "therapeutic cloning" not "reproductive cloning", it said.

That time maybe. Also they say that the embryo doesn't have cow DNA, but it would have cow dna in the mitochondria in the cells.

Human cloning is illegal.  That they have no intention to do it, is quite likely.  I see no reason to think otherwise, especially based on this article.

They say the embryo doesn't have cow DNA because it doesn't - for this procedure to work, the cow's egg cell must first be denucleated.   

It does not have cow dna in the cells, it would only have cow mitochondrial DNA which is something different than chromosomal DNA, so it doesn't make sense to say it would have cow dna in the cells.  It does not.   And it's very clear that this procedure was done in order to harvest human stem cells from the embryo, so they do not let this thing grow beyond the pre-implantation stage of development (it is grown 12 days). 

Not only would it be unethical and against the law to implant a created embryo like this into a surrogate mother in order to try to carry it to term as a "clone," (why would they do that with a cow egg cell rather than a human egg cell?) it would also be very likely to fail (the Italians who were trying to clone humans after other countries banned it failed again and again) and even if it is born it is likely to have health complications.    So I see less than a reasonable explanation for why they would even try to do this especially when overtly going out of their way to clarify to the public that that is not what they're doing.  (ie
Quote
  The company said it had released news of the discovery to try to allay fears over the artificial conception of life.
   So, at the time, they didn't even need to report any of the then- as-yet-unpublished work they were doing but did so anyway for public benefit).   (and perhaps to scoop their rivals)
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 27, 2010, 05:47:33 PM
Does someone have a link ?

I am yet to see any hard evidence that aliens visit earth. So far I am aware of lots of excrement stories about alien abducting humans, raping and sodomizing humans, mutilating cows, etc.

I haven't seen hard evidence either, nor has anyone presented a study that sets out to prove it...
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: MassuhDGoodName on September 27, 2010, 05:57:57 PM
Re:  "There have been news stories about embryos made from cow and human DNA, for example, but the claim is that these are stopped before they develop beyond a certain point."

Let me tell ya', right down the street from me is this guy who went off to Desert Storm.  Nobody knew exactly when he was supposed to come home.  In fact, nobody knew if he was even dead or alive.  Word was that he was all shot up with one of those IntraUterineDevices that the A-rabs put in the roads.  Some people told me they heard he'd been sent to one of them special hospitals where they clone people to grow new parts an stuff.  Well, anyway, about three weeks he came back home.  He's got one leg which is a chicken's leg, the other leg which is a turkey leg, and because he suffered from dizziness they stuck a third leg stickin' out from above his butt which I can only describe as some kind'a pelican beak or somethin'!  Instead of arms, he's got fish fins.  One of the fins has a monkey's paw on it, the other fin looks like a prehensile tail.  I went down there to visit him and 'cheer him up' for bein' a real hero.  He looked me square in the eye, and tole me that he don't go to the bathroom no more because the Government Agents let an alien core out his anus for an experiment!  This is all so dreadful an' terrible an' just has to stop!  Some alien's dun eatin his butthole for a snack just to make the U.S. Army on good terms with outer space!  Help!   Help!  Help!
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: MassuhDGoodName on September 27, 2010, 06:27:29 PM
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ufos/ (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ufos/)

http://www.cnes-geipan.fr/ (http://www.cnes-geipan.fr/)
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Rubystars on September 27, 2010, 07:29:59 PM
KWRBT, I know the difference between mitochondrial DNA and nuclear DNA. However mixing these together into one cell/entity with a human's nuclear DNA and a cow's mitochondrial DNA being in the same cell is wrong to me. I think the researchers who were doing this experiment were just reporting what they were doing, but my point (poorly made, I suppose) was that other researchers might not be stopping these embryos from growing and might implant them. Also there might be other experiments as-yet unreported that mix nuclear DNA from different creatures.

I don't know exactly how they're getting pigs to have human blood running through their veins, but it scares me a bit:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/01/0125_050125_chimeras.html

Here's one hypothetical problem that's possible:
Quote
For example, an experiment that would raise concerns, he said, is genetically engineering mice to produce human sperm and eggs, then doing in vitro fertilization to produce a child whose parents are a pair of mice.

It says nobody would actually try to do that experiment, but I am not so sure. There have been scientists in the past that are willing to do the most unethical work.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Rubystars on September 27, 2010, 07:34:37 PM
Massuh, lol that post reminds me of a tv show I was watching with a host that eats native, exotic foods. He was visiting an African tribe that used dung for their cookfires. One of the things they prepared for him to sample was a cattle anus that was cored out and on top of that, they were cooking it in the hot dung. The guy who was used to eating strange and exotic cuisine almost wasn't able to eat it, but felt obligated so as not to offend his hosts. It looked as disgusting as it sounds!  :o
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: MassuhDGoodName on September 27, 2010, 10:34:35 PM
Re:  "that post reminds me of a tv show I was watching with a host that eats native, exotic foods. He was visiting an African tribe that used dung for their cookfires. One of the things they prepared for him to sample was a cattle anus that was cored out and on top of that, they were cooking it in the hot dung. "

I actually saw that show!

Can you believe they were eating anuses boiled in feces and thought it was an ethnic delicacy?

Well, ... on second thought, I guess it is an ethnic delicacy!      :::D
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Rubystars on September 28, 2010, 06:26:49 AM
Can you believe they were eating anuses boiled in feces and thought it was an ethnic delicacy?

Well, ... on second thought, I guess it is an ethnic delicacy!      :::D

Maybe it's Africans in the space ships after all mutilating cattle  :::D
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 28, 2010, 01:38:25 PM
KWRBT, I know the difference between mitochondrial DNA and nuclear DNA. However mixing these together into one cell/entity with a human's nuclear DNA and a cow's mitochondrial DNA being in the same cell is wrong to me. I think the researchers who were doing this experiment were just reporting what they were doing, but my point (poorly made, I suppose) was that other researchers might not be stopping these embryos from growing and might implant them. Also there might be other experiments as-yet unreported that mix nuclear DNA from different creatures. 


I think this is paranoia for reasons I stated above.  There is nothing to gain and everything to lose from doing this if someone actually did.   And the rate of failure for such a procedure would guarantee not only the loss of career but also a failed experiment.

Also, I'm not sure why you think it's "wrong" to do what they did with a cell (to mix a cow egg cell with human nuclear DNA).

Quote

I don't know exactly how they're getting pigs to have human blood running through their veins, but it scares me a bit:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/01/0125_050125_chimeras.html


Personally, I don't really get what's "scary" about it.

Speaking of this article, it's kind of strange that they report:  "Chinese scientists at the Shanghai Second Medical University in 2003 successfully fused human cells with rabbit eggs. The embryos were reportedly the first human-animal chimeras successfully created. They were allowed to develop for several days in a laboratory dish before the scientists destroyed the embryos to harvest their stem cells."

Because that ignores the success of ACT from 1999 that we just looked at.   But maybe ACT never published it and this is the first time such a thing was published in a journal?

I don't fully understand the mice with human brains thing they refer to vaguely, but the rest they describe here seems pretty benign to me.

Quote
Here's one hypothetical problem that's possible:
Quote
For example, an experiment that would raise concerns, he said, is genetically engineering mice to produce human sperm and eggs, then doing in vitro fertilization to produce a child whose parents are a pair of mice.

It says nobody would actually try to do that experiment, but I am not so sure. There have been scientists in the past that are willing to do the most unethical work.
   

Why would anyone do that?

Is there something to be gained from that?

And which scientists do you refer to?

One really good thing about science today (especially in America, but I'm sure western countries follow a similar model) is that the ethical-legal restraints are intertwined with the ability to do research.  The safeguards are in place, and if someone actually goes out of their way to violate them, one can be sure that they will be held accountable for it.  There will always be lawbreakers in no matter what field, but it doesn't make sense to blame the field or every participant in the field, and hamper in new ways those who are obeying the law, for *potential lawbreakers (who haven't really done their crimes yet, according to this view).    But the best system is to intertwine the proper restraints with funding and publication of research and the field's hierarchy so that it is not in one's interest to break the law or to serve as an example, and it's impossible to succeed in the field by crossing certain agreed upon boundaries.

As an example, an article I read recently said quite poignantly about the Bush "stem cell ban" of 2001 -  You can argue with the "ethics" or "values" that motivate this particular legislature, but you cannot call it "anti-science" or against the researchers... 
I certainly disagree strongly with that ban, but I agree that it's not "anti-science."   It's simply a mistaken ethics motivating it - ethical premises which need to be reevaluated.   But the notion of ethics guidelines putting limits on scientific research is certainly within reason and importantly "pro-science" as we should desire science to be carried out.    We can disagree on the ethics, but ethics in general do need to play a role, and in American research they definitely do.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Rubystars on September 28, 2010, 01:54:03 PM
I think we should be concerned about what chimeras could potentially be used for. I also feel that human life should be held in such high regard that there should not be deliberately created life forms that are part human and part animal. The only time I would even see this as being feasible would be if a skin graft was needed or replacement organ or something, but not creating a creature from scratch that's part human/part animal.

Just the idea that its theoretically possible (although not probable at this time) to create a human being from nonhuman parents like mice raises the possibility of creating a very sticky spiritual situation in the modern world. This would be the first time in history that an animal did not share the same species as its parents. What if this person grew up and had all the natural desires to find a husband or wife as anyone else, how would they be able to do that and not have something be very sinful about that! Would being a human developed from mice-produced human gametes make one technically an animal or a human spiritually?

What if it wasn't a mouse, but an animal of a similar size as a human that had a "100% human brain" that functioned the same way? Of course having a fully-functional human brain and having human DNA in the cells are two different things, but I can see that something like that might be possible. I can see potential uses for this, but it would be completely unethical.

A lot of the experiments the Nazis did didn't make a lot of sense either, but they were done out of utter depravity and a total lack of limits as to ethical guidelines. I think if a scientist had the funding, enough secrecy surrounding the work, and could come up with a rationale for doing the research, some would do this kind of thing just for the fact that it can be done.

Stalin wanted to create a half-man, half-ape super soldier, but this never happened but who knows what could happen in the future with the improved technology of today already being what it is.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Dr. Dan on September 28, 2010, 02:12:49 PM
I think whatever it was these military experts heard or saw that disabled the nuclear missiles may not be aliens, but maybe Russian made space crafts..or maybe even a US experiment.

I personally believe that Gd created the universe only for us earthlings.  I don't think there is other intelligent life out there. However, I do believe that there are worlds out there that might be suitable for earthlings to live on.

Now of course, if other intelligent life forms to come about, that doesn't mean I will stop believing in Gd.  I just means I made a wrong assumption.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: White Israelite on September 28, 2010, 06:09:55 PM
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2m6l3td.jpg)

Ain't that the truth.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: White Israelite on September 28, 2010, 06:12:58 PM
Ancient Egypt also documented UFO's

(http://www.alien-ufo-pictures.com/ufoegypt1craft1small.jpg)

(http://www.alienshift.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/egypt3dwall.jpeg)

I think they do exist but I don't talk about it. I've seen some crazy stuff in the sky with my Orion telescope.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: MassuhDGoodName on September 28, 2010, 06:24:38 PM
Re:  "I personally believe that Gd created the universe only for us earthlings.  I don't think there is other intelligent life out there. However, I do believe that there are worlds out there that might be suitable for earthlings to live on. "

At this very moment there's an alien in another galaxy addressing his race, saying:

"I personally believe that G-d created the entire universe only for us aliens on this planet and in this galaxy.  There is no other intelligent life.  There are, however, worlds like Earth, stocked with the beings we call "snacks walk erect two legs", which G-d, in his infinite Mercy, provided us so we can eat dinner tonight! 

Bwwwwaaaaaa ha ha ha ha!"      >:(    >:(    >:(
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: cjd on September 28, 2010, 06:34:00 PM
There may be other places in the universe with some form of  life.  I believe however G-d was smart enough to keep his science projects far enough apart so they don't cross contaminate each other.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on September 28, 2010, 06:50:02 PM
Is there intelligent life elsewhere in the universe ?

Probably. Almost certainly.

Do they board UFOs and visit the Earth ?

I doubt it.

Unless they've found a way to travel faster than the speed of light, or a way to bend space, it would take thousands of years to get here.

And if you spent that much time getting here, why not stop to say hello, have a cup of coffee and a danish ?

I guess the aliens prefer mutilating cattle, making crop circles, or abducting humans for medical experiments.

But who am I to speculate on what aliens might do ?

I mean, everyone thought Richard Dreyfuss was nuts in Close Encounters Of The Third Kind, and Speilberg showed us that he was right all along !
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 29, 2010, 12:58:33 AM
A lot of the experiments the Nazis did didn't make a lot of sense either, but they were done out of utter depravity and a total lack of limits as to ethical guidelines. I think if a scientist had the funding, enough secrecy surrounding the work, and could come up with a rationale for doing the research, some would do this kind of thing just for the fact that it can be done.

The comparison to the nazis y''s is not valid.  They didn't have ethics committees and legal restraints or conditional funding.  Their program was anything goes and their evil so-called scientists carried out whatever they wanted.

That is not the system in place in America, therefore pointing to the nazis and saying we should worry about our current scientists, does not hold water.  Sorry.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: muman613 on September 29, 2010, 01:27:43 AM
A lot of the experiments the Nazis did didn't make a lot of sense either, but they were done out of utter depravity and a total lack of limits as to ethical guidelines. I think if a scientist had the funding, enough secrecy surrounding the work, and could come up with a rationale for doing the research, some would do this kind of thing just for the fact that it can be done.

The comparison to the nazis y''s is not valid.  They didn't have ethics committees and legal restraints or conditional funding.  Their program was anything goes and their evil so-called scientists carried out whatever they wanted.

That is not the system in place in America, therefore pointing to the nazis and saying we should worry about our current scientists, does not hold water.  Sorry.


KWRBT,

You seem to trust man way too much. The system is not etched in stone and relative morality always is a slippery slope. I agree with Rubystars that although currently it seems that things are being measured according to moral laws, there is no such guarantee that it will be that way in the future. It is always best to move forward cautiously lest we make a very large error.

Don't you think that the builders of the Tower of Babel had the noblest intentions? I know that they did, and their efforts ended up being against the wishes of Hashem. The rest is history.

Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: muman613 on September 29, 2010, 01:32:14 AM
I'm sorry I am digressing here, and if you think this is not relevant then please disregard it... I think it is relevant:



http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1013006/jewish/What-Was-Up-With-the-Tower-of-Babel.htm

What Was Up With the Tower of Babel?
By Menachem Posner

There are a number of fascinating explanations on the subject to be found in the classic commentaries. Let's begin with the Talmud (Sandhedrin 109a) where we find three traditions:

In the School of Rabbi Shila it was taught that they built the tower with the intention of piercing the heavens with axes to drain all the water held therein, making it impossible for G‑d to bring another flood, should they vex Him again. (Perhaps what's meant by this is that they had embraced their understanding of science and its workings to the extent that they felt they were now able to spar with G‑d on His turf—the heavens.)

Rabbi Yirmiya bar Elazar taught that there were actually three groups; each with its own plans for the tower: One group planned to climb the tower, safely out of harm's way, should another flood come. A second camp wanted to use it as a shrine for idol worship. Yet a third group actually wanted to use it as a platform from which to battle G‑d.

Rabbi Natan, on the other hand, taught that all of them intended to serve idols.

The Targum Yerushalmi explains that the tower was to be crowned by the form of a man holding a sword in his hand—an act of defiance against the G‑d whom they hoped to overcome.

An interesting teaching in the Midrash is that they were afraid that the heavens would collapse regularly every 1656 years like it did during the flood, which took place in the year 1656 from Creation, and they therefore decided to build a scaffolding to support it.

The Maharal (Rabbi Yehuda Lowe, 16th century rabbi of Prague) explains the Midrash and the teachings of the School of Rabbi Shila to mean that they saw the Flood as a natural occurrence that took place as a result of the movements of the celestial spheres and their positioning in the sky at the time of the Flood. The purpose of the tower was to somehow change what they perceived as the natural weather pattern.

Rabbi Obadiah Sforno (15th-16th Century) explains that their plan to place an idol on top of the tower was so that it would gain universal acclaim as the world's tallest shrine and greatest god, making it the center of worship for all—with the result that the one who ruled that city would rule all humankind.

Rabbeinu Bachya (13th-14th Century) gives a number of explanations. On an elementary level, he explains that their plan was to build a monument that would be seen from many miles around. They wanted to settle together, and decided that they would all remain within view of the tower and never stray from it. Anyone who strayed too far from the metropolis would have the tower to guide him back. This, however, was not G‑d's plan, since He created us to settle the world—all of it—and make it a better place.

He also suggests that they may have actually been creating the first lightning rod. They knew that G‑d had promised not to bring another flood, and feared that He would instead punish those who rebel with fire. They hoped that the tower would serve to divert any electrical storms that G‑d would send their way. (Note that Bachya lived many centuries before Franklin.)

The Netziv (Rabbi Naphtali Tzvi Yehuda Berlin, the19th century Rosh Yeshiva of the famed Volozhin Yeshiva) has a fascinating and very instructive view on their plan. He explains that they were the first social engineers—hoping to create a utopian society where all lived and thought as one. They feared that if some people would settle their own colonies and towns, they would develop their own cultures and unique modes of living. They wanted everyone to live in one controlled environment where they would be able to make sure that all remain culturally homogenous. The tower served as a base around which all people of their planned colony would settle—no one leaving its immediate environs. The problem with their plan was that it was the first step toward a tyrannical state where no individual expression would be tolerated, and G‑d split them into separate nations.

The Lubavitcher Rebbe once explained the episode as follows: They planned a tower which would be a monument to inspire commitment to their common goal—survival. They wanted to ""make for ourselves a name""—to ensure the continuity of the human race.

Where did they go wrong?

Precisely that was their error: they saw survival as an end in itself. Let us make a name for ourselves, they said; let us ensure that there will be future generations who will read of us in their history books. To them, life itself was an ideal, survival itself a virtue.

This was the beginning of the end. Nature abhors a vacuum, and this is true of spiritual realities as well: unless a soul or cause is filled with positive content, corruption will ultimately seep in. A hollow name and shrine soon becomes a tower of Babel.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Dr. Dan on September 29, 2010, 05:00:00 AM
I don't get how ufos and science has anything to do with the tower of babel
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Rubystars on September 29, 2010, 06:05:29 AM
A lot of the experiments the Nazis did didn't make a lot of sense either, but they were done out of utter depravity and a total lack of limits as to ethical guidelines. I think if a scientist had the funding, enough secrecy surrounding the work, and could come up with a rationale for doing the research, some would do this kind of thing just for the fact that it can be done.

The comparison to the nazis y''s is not valid.  They didn't have ethics committees and legal restraints or conditional funding.  Their program was anything goes and their evil so-called scientists carried out whatever they wanted.

That is not the system in place in America, therefore pointing to the nazis and saying we should worry about our current scientists, does not hold water.  Sorry.


I think the comparison is very valid, especially considering that America itself imported Nazis after the war to help in their science researches. If there is a defense reason for doing an unethical experiment, it will be done. Those laws you mention apply to regular scientists that would more than likely behave in an ethical manner anyway. Many unethical experiments have been done by our own government. That's not paranoia, that's history. As one example I give Project Bluebird (http://www.examiner.com/us-intelligence-in-national/cia-behavior-modification-project-bluebird).

To me, if anyone is saying that our government and others around the world no longer perform unethical experiments, then I think that's naive.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Rubystars on September 29, 2010, 06:25:23 AM
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2m6l3td.jpg)

Ain't that the truth.

That about sums it up! I like the part with the batman symbol.  :::D
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Rubystars on September 29, 2010, 07:36:11 AM
You seem to trust man way too much. The system is not etched in stone and relative morality always is a slippery slope.

I sent KWRBT a link to a documentary and I hope other people would watch it as well.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5712544616311773685#

It talks about documented facts of what happened in CIA experiments and experiments on human beings (medical and psychological) that were going on in England, Canada, Germany, and the USA during the Cold War. I am almost certain that people are not more moral today than they were then, and our governments are no more trustworthy today than they were then. I am concerned about how science can be abused even though I absolutely love the good side of science, exploring the universe, discovery, helping people, etc. there is a real dark side to it too that has come out and more than likely still happens.

Quote
I agree with Rubystars that although currently it seems that things are being measured according to moral laws, there is no such guarantee that it will be that way in the future. It is always best to move forward cautiously lest we make a very large error.

Thanks Muman. I would go one step further and say that there are unethical scientists working even to this day on things that would shock people if they knew about it. Can I prove it? No. Why? Because they're working in secret of course. However I think history is a good guideline there. There are no good reasons that I know of to think that human nature and the nature of our governments have changed that much in the matter of a few decades.

Quote
Don't you think that the builders of the Tower of Babel had the noblest intentions? I know that they did, and their efforts ended up being against the wishes of Hashem. The rest is history.

I am no theologian, but I always thought they did it in order to commit the same sort of Sin that Adam and Eve committed, wanting to be like God. Some people don't even have noble intentions to begin with at all when they degrade into pure evil.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 29, 2010, 08:34:57 AM
I seen Illegal Aliens,,, does that count? :P
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Rubystars on September 29, 2010, 08:37:28 AM
I seen Illegal Aliens,,, does that count? :P

If that mother plane the black nationalists are talking about is going to beam anyone up I wish it would be them and all their anchor baby spawn.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 29, 2010, 08:39:52 AM
A little Alien on a mothership named Jose.. Flew over the border into California to pick lettuce, he got paid in pesos, brought drugs and 35 of his family members with him.. Ohhhhhhhhh.. You mean them green looking E.T. ones? Well I would take the green looking E.T. ones over the Joses
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Rubystars on September 29, 2010, 08:43:03 AM
A little Alien on a mothership named Jose.. Flew over the border into California to pick lettuce, he got paid in pesos, brought drugs and 35 of his family members with him.. Ohhhhhhhhh.. You mean them green looking E.T. ones? Well I would take the green looking E.T. ones over the Joses

I wonder if they can pick lettuce though.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 29, 2010, 08:49:14 AM
There could be... I mean this will explain these creatures.

(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee128/MasterWolf1/HDR-freak-show.gif)

(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee128/MasterWolf1/pgt048_ufo.jpg)

(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee128/MasterWolf1/aronpnew.jpg)

(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r118/MaxMax_06/MichelleObamaLOL.jpg)

(http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss37/exyank/thomas.jpg)
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 29, 2010, 08:50:41 AM
A little Alien on a mothership named Jose.. Flew over the border into California to pick lettuce, he got paid in pesos, brought drugs and 35 of his family members with him.. Ohhhhhhhhh.. You mean them green looking E.T. ones? Well I would take the green looking E.T. ones over the Joses

I wonder if they can pick lettuce though.

Can't be any worst then the illegals picking lettuce and chances are no one will get sick
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Rubystars on September 29, 2010, 09:26:42 AM
The CIA basically were following up on experiments done by the Nazis at Dachau! This is all a matter of fact, there is nothing controversial about this. After Olson jumped or was pushed out of the window a lot of the hidden stuff came out.
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on September 29, 2010, 09:34:41 AM
Jose and Miguel cross the border into America and decide to become professional beggars.

Everyday, they each go out with a sign asking for money.

Everyday, Miguel comes back with a few dollars.

Everyday, Jose comes back with a suitcase full of 10 dollar bills, and in no time he purchases a beautiful home, car, and a boat.

Miguel is mystified by his friend's amazing success. He asks what his secret is.

Jose replies, "I have a very good sign".

Miguel says, "I have a good sign too".

Jose asks, "What does your sign say ?".

Miguel responds, "I have a wife and 4 children that I can't feed, please help".

Jose says, "Not bad".

Miguel asks, "What does your sign say ?".

Jose answers, "I need 10 dollars to go back to Mexico".   
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 29, 2010, 10:21:24 AM
A lot of the experiments the Nazis did didn't make a lot of sense either, but they were done out of utter depravity and a total lack of limits as to ethical guidelines. I think if a scientist had the funding, enough secrecy surrounding the work, and could come up with a rationale for doing the research, some would do this kind of thing just for the fact that it can be done.

The comparison to the nazis y''s is not valid.  They didn't have ethics committees and legal restraints or conditional funding.  Their program was anything goes and their evil so-called scientists carried out whatever they wanted.

That is not the system in place in America, therefore pointing to the nazis and saying we should worry about our current scientists, does not hold water.  Sorry.


KWRBT,

You seem to trust man way too much. 

False.   It's simply logic.   The comparison of the nazi's to American science is comparing apples to oranges.

If a nazi scientist did cruel experiments on Jews, he would be rewarded and be advanced to high standing in the nazi party.   If an American researcher or scientist does a cruel experiment on any human that violates the legal-ethical standards he is bound to BY LAW, he will lose his job, lose his career, lose funding for his lab, desecrate the institution he works for, be publicly ridiculed and attacked, and possibly or likely end up in jail.

Big difference.  Apples to oranges.   No trust involved.


Quote
The system is not etched in stone

Yes it is.  There are legal restrictions.  Violators are punished for breaking the law.  The US has a good reputation that those who break the law are charged with crimes.   This is not the wild west or the African jungle.

Quote
and reative morality always is a slippery slope. I agree with Rubystars that although currently it seems that things are being measured according to moral laws, there is no such guarantee that it will be that way in the future. It is always best to move forward cautiously lest we make a very large error. 

You're not making a coherent point.   Even if you suspect (a baseless suspicion, I might add) that in the future ethical concerns will not restrain scientific research in any way like they currently do, the important point and relevant point is that they CURRENTLY DO, so it makes no sense to punish scientists who follow these guidelines and uphold the ethical standards that have been established by ethics committees and legal structure.

Quote
Don't you think that the builders of the Tower of Babel had the noblest intentions? I know that they did, and their efforts ended up being against the wishes of Hashem. The rest is history.   

How is that relevant?

You really compare science to the tower of babel? 

So if you have a medical issue chas veshalom, you're going to take a moral stand and refuse to take the modern, most advanced treatment from the tower of babelites as a protest against their science that developed the treatments?
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 29, 2010, 10:31:12 AM
Now there's been a conflating of issues.  (anyone need a translation for that, so I'm not accused of stealing that language from a college professor) 

::) ???

Anyway, back to the subject at hand, you guys are now speaking about secret experiments by the CIA... But how did we jump away from the subject of science that goes on in research institutions with funding, transparent data and methodology, ethical guidelines, legal restraints, etc - to a practically autonomous group that can discard the law at will?     Rubystars, you mentioned the achievements of a research group at Advanced Cell Technology for crying out loud.    They have published their findings and methods in scientific journals any person can look up on pubmed.   Once again comparing apples to oranges.   Why should THESE scientists (ie those at transparent research institutions, hospitals, etc) be punished because there might be a secretive govt-associated group that DISCARDS the legal-ethical standards that THESE scientists are bound to abide by and which the system enforces?   Why should I be wary of the people whom the system actually affects?   I shouldn't.   If you want to worry about the CIA, maybe I'm with you there, but that's precisely because they are above the law and above the restraints/unaffected by the system itself!
Title: Re: retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances
Post by: Rubystars on September 29, 2010, 12:51:32 PM
KWRBT, I think there's been a misunderstanding, and I think it's my fault for not explaining well enough what I meant.

My concern is that this kind of technology can be used to create things that are completely WRONG to create, such as animal/human hybrids (it was even being implied that a human brain might be possible to be grown inside an animal's body, which would raise huge morality issues).

Also the idea was raised that it may be possible to grow human sperm and eggs from transgenic mice, etc. That is just sickening to think of. I can see a day when a fertility clinic would be offering "donated eggs" that came from transgenic mice. 

Another thing to think about with this kind of experiment is this. Right now if a modern day Mengele wants a human subject to do his or her dirty work on, then they have to somehow procure a human, whether by kidnapping, etc. but if you can have a laboratory full of MICE and produce human embyros from them, not only for stem cells but also possibly to grow experimental human subjects if implanted in a woman (perhaps against her will) then there could be a large amount of babies produced that would have no parents and no public birth record. There are so many ways this could go wrong that I don't even know where to begin.

I wasn't saying that particular lab would do it, because a legit lab like that wouldn't. However it's possible that some lab somewhere would use what was learned by the legitimate experiments and take it and create monsters basically, if that was somehow seen as useful for defense or for some special project the government wanted to do.

This kind of idea goes back a long way. Stalin wanted to create animal/human hybrid soldiers but there wasn't the technology to do it back then. I don't know if there is now or not, but if human beings were murdered by the CIA in "Terminal experiments" after hours of "interrogation techniques", then God only knows what they or some other agency has been up to. I really doubt there are any ethical constraints in China for example.