JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: mord on June 18, 2007, 06:41:10 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4pRQec-y1I
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A very noble gesture to be sure, but Israel will get NO thanks and NO grattitude from those people. You might save a baby crocodile but it's parents will still see you as lunch.
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Your right,but she's a little girl
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I will not let any physician attend me who has not taken the Oath of Hippocrates.
Up until about twenty years ago, it was the standard oath of all medical physicians in the world, dating back to ancient Greece, where Hippocrates, whom we call "The Father of Modern Medicine", enforced the Oath upon all of his disciples who desired to practice the Art of Medicine.
With the acceptance of legalized abortion, society has become so corrupted that American Medical Schools will not allow a student to graduate unless they take a course on how to abort babies.
The A.M.A. no longer endorses the ancient solemn Oath of Hippocrates, written 400 B.C.E, which reads as follows:
-I SWEAR by Apollo the physician, and Aesculapius, and Health, and All-heal, and all the gods and goddesses, that, according to my ability and judgment, I will keep this Oath and this stipulation- to reckon him who taught me this Art equally dear to me as my parents, to share my substance with him, and relieve his necessities if required; to look upon his offspring in the same footing as my own brothers, and to teach them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or stipulation; and that by precept, lecture, and every other mode of instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the Art to my own sons, and those of my teachers, and to disciples bound by a stipulation and oath according to the law of medicine, but to none others.
-I will follow that system of regimen which, according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patients, and abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous.
-I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel;
-and in like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to produce abortion.
-With purity and with holiness I will pass my life and practice my Art.
-I will not cut persons laboring under the stone, but will leave this to be done by men who are practitioners of this work.
-Into whatever houses I enter, I will go into them for the benefit of the sick, and will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief and corruption; and, further from the seduction of females or males, of freemen and slaves.
-Whatever, in connection with my professional practice or not, in connection with it, I see or hear, in the life of men, which ought not to be spoken of abroad, I will not divulge, as reckoning that all such should be kept secret.
-While I continue to keep this Oath unviolated, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and the practice of the art, respected by all men, in all times!
-But should I trespass and violate this Oath, may the reverse be my lot!
-Translated by Francis Adams
A physician who refuses to aid a young child, or anyone of whatever age or sex or whatever ethnicity, aids in torture or in an execution, performs abortions, administers euthanasia, has sex with patients, or engages in any immorality, has always been considered a fraud by the medical profession and barred from the profession.
Still approve of an IDF doctor refusing to aid a little Arab girl?
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Still approve of an IDF doctor refusing to aid a little Arab girl?
Did i say i did'nt
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Mord: " Did i say i did'nt?"
No.
But others here seem unfamiliar with the attributes expected of one practicing the Medical Arts.
And that in itself, is one more contributing factor to a decadent and corrupt society on the decline.
We can not save Western Civilization unless we are knowledgeable as to what it actually is, and always has been.
Deporting those unfit to live here is meaningless, if we don't first know the very standards for which we are struggling, and demand their reimplementation.
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what is a pessary?
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what is a pessary?
A thing thats used to support parts of internal organs usually on women
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I will not let any physician attend me who has not taken the Oath of Hippocrates.
Up until about twenty years ago, it was the standard oath of all medical physicians in the world, dating back to ancient Greece, where Hippocrates, whom we call "The Father of Modern Medicine", enforced the Oath upon all of his disciples who desired to practice the Art of Medicine.
With the acceptance of legalized abortion, society has become so corrupted that American Medical Schools will not allow a student to graduate unless they take a course on how to abort babies.
The A.M.A. no longer endorses the ancient solemn Oath of Hippocrates, written 400 B.C.E, which reads as follows:
-I SWEAR by Apollo the physician, and Aesculapius, and Health, and All-heal, and all the gods and goddesses, that, according to my ability and judgment, I will keep this Oath and this stipulation- to reckon him who taught me this Art equally dear to me as my parents, to share my substance with him, and relieve his necessities if required; to look upon his offspring in the same footing as my own brothers, and to teach them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or stipulation; and that by precept, lecture, and every other mode of instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the Art to my own sons, and those of my teachers, and to disciples bound by a stipulation and oath according to the law of medicine, but to none others.
-I will follow that system of regimen which, according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patients, and abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous.
-I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel;
-and in like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to produce abortion.
-With purity and with holiness I will pass my life and practice my Art.
-I will not cut persons laboring under the stone, but will leave this to be done by men who are practitioners of this work.
-Into whatever houses I enter, I will go into them for the benefit of the sick, and will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief and corruption; and, further from the seduction of females or males, of freemen and slaves.
-Whatever, in connection with my professional practice or not, in connection with it, I see or hear, in the life of men, which ought not to be spoken of abroad, I will not divulge, as reckoning that all such should be kept secret.
-While I continue to keep this Oath unviolated, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and the practice of the art, respected by all men, in all times!
-But should I trespass and violate this Oath, may the reverse be my lot!
-Translated by Francis Adams
A physician who refuses to aid a young child, or anyone of whatever age or sex or whatever ethnicity, aids in torture or in an execution, performs abortions, administers euthanasia, has sex with patients, or engages in any immorality, has always been considered a fraud by the medical profession and barred from the profession.
Still approve of an IDF doctor refusing to aid a little Arab girl?
This is all very good, but I doubt that the Hippocratic Oath was originally intended to have a universal meaning. The ancient Greeks did have a nationalist consciousness (although not in the modern meaning of this word). I would imagine that the unstated assumption of this oath is its applicability to a specific community, not the world at large.
However this might be, if I were an Israeli doctor or hospital, I would abstain from all help to the Palestinian community because it is a community of sworn enemies to all Jews. I would put aside all vague do-good, bleeding-heart humanitarian principles in this particular situation, because what is at stake here is the survival of the Jewish people, and to have a will to survive, we must treat our enemies as enemies. I'm not saying that a doctor should not help a foreigner in general. Of course not. Only as applies in this specific case. Color me uncharitable. I confess, I am not a universal humanitarian.
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I could be wrong but I think a Jewish doctor CANNOT provide medical care to an enemy of the Jewish prople under Talmudic law. I stand to be corrected if orthodox torah schollars know different.
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I could be wrong but I think a Jewish doctor CANNOT provide medical care to an enemy of the Jewish prople under Talmudic law. I stand to be corrected if orthodox torah schollars know different.
That is correct, a doctor is required to by Halacha to let such a person die, the exception being if they have information you need or some other similiar concern.
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I could be wrong but I think a Jewish doctor CANNOT provide medical care to an enemy of the Jewish prople under Talmudic law. I stand to be corrected if orthodox torah schollars know different.
That is correct, a doctor is required to by Halacha to let such a person die, the exception being if they have information you need or some other similiar concern.
Common sense!
Only a secular cement head would be stupid enough to save someone who is trying to kill them.
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I could be wrong but I think a Jewish doctor CANNOT provide medical care to an enemy of the Jewish prople under Talmudic law. I stand to be corrected if orthodox torah schollars know different.
From what I heard about Talmud's general attitude, this makes sense. I also heard that it is not wrong, according to Talmud, to show gladness when an enemy dies. But I don't know the Talmud, so let's wait for a scholar.
These are the two principles I would apply to an enemy (I don't know if they are correct from the Talmudic viewpoint):
1) Do not aid the enemy.
2) Do not harm your enemy more than necessary for achieving your strategic goals.
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I could be wrong but I think a Jewish doctor CANNOT provide medical care to an enemy of the Jewish prople under Talmudic law. I stand to be corrected if orthodox torah schollars know different.
That is correct, a doctor is required to by Halacha to let such a person die, the exception being if they have information you need or some other similiar concern.
As I was typing, you already provided the answer - thank you. This makes perfect sense. As always, the Talmud sages are, how should we say it, very sagacious. :)
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The Gemara in Megillah explains yes, we do celebrate at the downfall of national enemies, not personal enemies.
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The Gemara in Megillah explains yes, we do celebrate at the downfall of national enemies, not personal enemies.
Yes, I was thinking of national enemies. Purim would probably an example of such a celebration.
(Actually, when I think about it, I cannot think of any people whom I consider "personal enemies." Some people that I dislike, yes. But I wouldn't qualify them as enemies).
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From what I heard about Talmud's general attitude, this makes sense. I also heard that it is not wrong, according to Talmud, to show gladness when an enemy dies. But I don't know the Talmud, so let's wait for a scholar.
These are the two principles I would apply to an enemy (I don't know if they are correct from the Talmudic viewpoint):
1) Do not aid the enemy.
2) Do not harm your enemy more than necessary for achieving your strategic goals.
I'm sorry...but children are not "the enemy". Even Muslim children. They are being brought up in a culture of lies. Oh that someone would rescue and enlighten them!
I find it a genuine act of mercy and kindness that an Israeli doctor would help an Arab little girl. I would not give a flying flip what the Gemarah had to say on the matter. Sometimes I genuinely believe HaShem might be shocked and ashamed that the Rabbanim who profess to speak for Him, interpreting and analyzing everything down to the last detail would go so far outside the intent of His real will and approve of standing idly by while someone lies hurt and wounded...someone who is innocent.
Just because someone is born into "The Enemy" and into a false faith, does not make that person, especially a child who doesn't know any better, "Guilty."
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From what I heard about Talmud's general attitude, this makes sense. I also heard that it is not wrong, according to Talmud, to show gladness when an enemy dies. But I don't know the Talmud, so let's wait for a scholar.
These are the two principles I would apply to an enemy (I don't know if they are correct from the Talmudic viewpoint):
1) Do not aid the enemy.
2) Do not harm your enemy more than necessary for achieving your strategic goals.
I'm sorry...but children are not "the enemy". Even Muslim children. They are being brought up in a culture of lies. Oh that someone would rescue and enlighten them!
I find it a genuine act of mercy and kindness that an Israeli doctor would help an Arab little girl. I would not give a flying flip what the Gemarah had to say on the matter. Sometimes I genuinely believe HaShem might be shocked and ashamed that the Rabbanim who profess to speak for Him, interpreting and analyzing everything down to the last detail would go so far outside the intent of His real will and approve of standing idly by while someone lies hurt and wounded...someone who is innocent.
Just because someone is born into "The Enemy" and into a false faith, does not make that person, especially a child who doesn't know any better, "Guilty."
Let us just agree to disagree. This girl is a future jihadi womb. If the situation were different - sure, show some humanity. But the situation is extreme, IMHO. We have a demographic bomb on our hands in addition to all real bombs.
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I'm sorry...but children are not "the enemy". Even Muslim children. They are being brought up in a culture of lies. Oh that someone would rescue and enlighten them!
I find it a genuine act of mercy and kindness that an Israeli doctor would help an Arab little girl. I would not give a flying flip what the Gemarah had to say on the matter. Sometimes I genuinely believe HaShem might be shocked and ashamed that the Rabbanim who profess to speak for Him, interpreting and analyzing everything down to the last detail would go so far outside the intent of His real will and approve of standing idly by while someone lies hurt and wounded...someone who is innocent.
Just because someone is born into "The Enemy" and into a false faith, does not make that person, especially a child who doesn't know any better, "Guilty."
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I've got a newsflash for you.
Sand apettes as young as 10 are being recruited as suicide bombers. I'm no Torah schollar, but someone packing C4, rusty nails and rat poison more than quallifies as an enemy.
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Sure, if you see a kid with a homicide bomber belt on, shoot and kill.
I agree with that.
But someone who is unarmed? And a kid?
I realize that even kids are being recruited as Suicide(homicide) bombers. It's sick and twisted.
Would it make a difference in the life of that Muslim girl that a Jewish doctor saved her life? It just might.
(I'm an Israeli, and I know a lot of what goes on in Israel though I live in the American South West right now. Thanks for the newsflash though!) ;)
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Sure, if you see a kid with a homicide bomber belt on, shoot and kill.
I agree with that.
But someone who is unarmed? And a kid?
I realize that even kids are being recruited as Suicide(homicide) bombers. It's sick and twisted.
Would it make a difference in the life of that Muslim girl that a Jewish doctor saved her life? It just might.
(I'm an Israeli, and I know a lot of what goes on in Israel though I live in the American South West right now. Thanks for the newsflash though!) ;)
I think we have very different opinions on the meaning of a "national enemy." I believe that a Biblical understanding of a national enemy is not that of a lawful combatant in an identifiable uniform that can be found on a field of battle. Remember the Amalek? It is a good example. I think that it is very regrettable, but also symptomatic, that as an Israeli child you were taught in school secular humanist ethics. I think that Israel would be in better shape right now if the kids were taught Jewish ethics instead. I am not trying to pick a fight with you or point fingers. This is simply an expression of my opinion. Your opinion is different. But note that the Talmudic scholars (as has been confirmed on this thread) do not agree with you.
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Any doctor who treats a muslim is a traitor. Remember Baruch Goldstein, he was famous for refusing to treat muslims and I am sure he was right.
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I could be wrong but I think a Jewish doctor CANNOT provide medical care to an enemy of the Jewish prople under Talmudic law. I stand to be corrected if orthodox torah schollars know different.
How about this - an enemy must not live on the territory of your state, period.
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You know why they call Israel an apartheid state?
Because the dumb leftists first ask Arabs to stay in Israel and then fight them.
This is a pure masochism!
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I could be wrong but I think a Jewish doctor CANNOT provide medical care to an enemy of the Jewish prople under Talmudic law. I stand to be corrected if orthodox torah schollars know different.
How about this - an enemy must not live on the territory of your state, period.
Kahanists have been saying that all along. If the traitors and kapos in the Israeli gov't could only get that into heads.
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I'm telling you... I don't know who called the Jews the smartest nation of all.
Let me tell you - Jews are the dumbest people in the world. Even Arabs are smarter than them.
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Wait a minute, I wouldn't call the jews the dumbest. The christians in america have let all the shvartzas, cookarachas and now even muslims come in and destroy their country.
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You know why they call Israel an apartheid state?
Because the dumb leftists first ask Arabs to stay in Israel and then fight them.
This is a pure masochism!
Good point. They've filled their own house with wasps and black widow spiders to be nice. Now the world hates then for spraying the bugs. Meshuganah!
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Now, let's think for a second:
1) Did the USA give even an inch of its territory to anyone?
2) Is there an ongoing war on the US borders?
3) Did Israel benefit from having Arabs on its land? They were not used as slaves, if I am not mistaken.
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Now, let's think for a second:
1) Did the USA give even an inch of its territory to anyone?
2) Is there an ongoing war on the US borders?
3) Did Israel benefit from having Arabs on its land? They were not used as slaves, if I am not mistaken.
Israel gets bagged when they take minimal, humane defensive measures in a most extreme situation no other country could imagine.
Imagine if the USA had wetbacks or flappy headed canadians blowing themselves up in American cafes. Everything south and north of the border would be ash!
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Now, let's think for a second:
1) Did the USA give even an inch of its territory to anyone?
2) Is there an ongoing war on the US borders?
3) Did Israel benefit from having Arabs on its land? They were not used as slaves, if I am not mistaken.
Israel gets bagged when they take minimal, humane defensive measures in a most extreme situation no other country could imagine.
Imagine if the USA had wetbacks or flappy headed canadians blowing themselves up in American cafes. Everything south and north of the border would be ash!
That's why early Americans took necessary actions to eliminate as many enemies as possible, and now the USA is one of the largest countries in the world.
Israel is one of the microscopically viewable states on Earth. Not because it is sorrounded by enemies, but because it lets them stay there, unlike America.
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Now, let's think for a second:
1) Did the USA give even an inch of its territory to anyone?
2) Is there an ongoing war on the US borders?
3) Did Israel benefit from having Arabs on its land? They were not used as slaves, if I am not mistaken.
Israel gets bagged when they take minimal, humane defensive measures in a most extreme situation no other country could imagine.
Imagine if the USA had wetbacks or flappy headed canadians blowing themselves up in American cafes. Everything south and north of the border would be ash!
That's why early Americans took necessary actions to eliminate as many enemies as possible, and now the USA is one of the largest countries in the world.
Israel is one of the microscopically viewable states on Earth. Not because it is sorrounded by enemies, but because it lets them stay there, unlike America.
Ironic that noble people who suffered so terribly at the hands of nazi germans now allow themselves to be killed by sand ape nazis because they're worried the Germans will call THEM nazis.
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Here is the official nomination.
The smartest people in the whole universe are Armenians.
In 1988 they decided to occupy a territory called Nagorniy Karabakh in neighboring Azerbaijan. Armenians had no right for it, but they still did it.
Here are the actions they took:
1) Kicked out all Azerbaijanis from Armenia;
2) Occupied Nagorniy Karabakh, which is in Azerbaijan;
3) Kicked out all Azerbaijanis from Nagorniy Karabakh;
4) Built a strong army backed by Russia
Here are the benefits they harvested:
1) Minimum casualties of the native population
2) Not even a slight association with apartheid, since there is no native population there at the first place.
3) Over 1 million Azerbaijani refuges have settled around Azerbaijan, have babies, buy homes etc. In 50 years everyone will forget about the conflict.
4) Nobody is suffering, thus there is no noise.
Now, compare it to Israel. Armenians had no right for that land. Israel had all rights for its land. And look who is the most hated of all.
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That family looks pretty secular to me.
But yah, they're arabs and it must be in their blood to murder all Jews. ::)
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That family looks pretty secular to me.
But yah, they're arabs and it must be in their blood to murder all Jews. ::)
It's in their DNA
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Dawn, during WWII American Marines were told they would have to kill children, why? Because the Japanese were training school children to attack American soldiers with sharpened bamboo canes, yes, it is terrible that those children had to be killed, but otherwise American soldiers would have died. When the enemy uses his own children as weapons you have to view them as weapons, otherwise you and your children will be killed.
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You and newman should get together and go kill some Arab babies then. Start now before their DNA forces them to murder Jews. I love how this little girl with a bright red handband is a pursuer of Jewish blood somehow. What other sick justifications for your ungodly hatred will you bring up? There's a difference between helping a little girl who gets nailed in the head and a kid trained to kill soldiers. If the little girl had a bomb on her or was trying to hurt Israel soldiers then so be it, but she wasn't.
Mods, I'm being real here: You gotta do something to stop this degeneration of reasoning that is happening on the board. This type of mental savagery can't win the day. The discussion is becoming inhuman lately.
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That's why we have to remember Rav's words:
1) "I don't want to kill Arabs, I want them out of Israel"
2) "I don't hate Arabs, I love Jews"
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You and newman should get together and go kill some Arab babies then. Start now before their DNA forces them to murder Jews. I love how this little girl with a bright red handband is a pursuer of Jewish blood somehow. What other sick justifications for your ungodly hatred will you bring up? There's a difference between helping a little girl who gets nailed in the head and a kid trained to kill soldiers. If the little girl had a bomb on her or was trying to hurt Israel soldiers then so be it, but she wasn't.
Mods, I'm being real here: You gotta do something to stop this degeneration of reasoning that is happening on the board. This type of mental savagery can't win the day. The discussion is becoming inhuman lately.
Don't forgett the rock was thrown by another sand ape
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It's easy to say you would'nt help this cute little girl but if you were their i bet most would help.Yes they do look secular they might be Christians
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I could be wrong but I think a Jewish doctor CANNOT provide medical care to an enemy of the Jewish prople under Talmudic law. I stand to be corrected if orthodox torah schollars know different.
From what I heard about Talmud's general attitude, this makes sense. I also heard that it is not wrong, according to Talmud, to show gladness when an enemy dies. But I don't know the Talmud, so let's wait for a scholar.
These are the two principles I would apply to an enemy (I don't know if they are correct from the Talmudic viewpoint):
1) Do not aid the enemy.
2) Do not harm your enemy more than necessary for achieving your strategic goals.
Masechat Megillah says on page 13(?) that not rejoicing when you enemy falls, only refers to a Jew rejoicing when another Jew falls, which is what the phrase was talking about. Mordechai kicked Haman when Haman was helping him onto a horse, and Haman asked him "arent u supposed to not rejoice when your enemy falls?" and Mordechai responded "that is only taking about another Jew".
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I could be wrong but I think a Jewish doctor CANNOT provide medical care to an enemy of the Jewish prople under Talmudic law. I stand to be corrected if orthodox torah schollars know different.
From what I heard about Talmud's general attitude, this makes sense. I also heard that it is not wrong, according to Talmud, to show gladness when an enemy dies. But I don't know the Talmud, so let's wait for a scholar.
These are the two principles I would apply to an enemy (I don't know if they are correct from the Talmudic viewpoint):
1) Do not aid the enemy.
2) Do not harm your enemy more than necessary for achieving your strategic goals.
Masechat Megillah says on page 13(?) that not rejoicing when you enemy falls, only refers to a Jew rejoicing when another Jew falls, which is what the phrase was talking about. Mordechai kicked Haman when Haman was helping him onto a horse, and Haman asked him "arent u supposed to not rejoice when your enemy falls?" and Mordechai responded "that is only taking about another Jew".
So we can laugh our butts off when it's a sand ape...woo hoo :laugh:
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You and newman should get together and go kill some Arab babies then. Start now before their DNA forces them to murder Jews. I love how this little girl with a bright red handband is a pursuer of Jewish blood somehow. What other sick justifications for your ungodly hatred will you bring up? There's a difference between helping a little girl who gets nailed in the head and a kid trained to kill soldiers. If the little girl had a bomb on her or was trying to hurt Israel soldiers then so be it, but she wasn't.
Mods, I'm being real here: You gotta do something to stop this degeneration of reasoning that is happening on the board. This type of mental savagery can't win the day. The discussion is becoming inhuman lately.
We do not follow Christian morals on this forum we follow Jewish morals and laws, and these are to be merciless in war against our enemies. If you could prove that this girl and her family were loyal to Israel and the Jewish people, then I wouldnt have a problem helping her, but if her family in any way assists or even supports our enemies then no help should be given to them under any circumstances.
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A very noble gesture to be sure, but Israel will get NO thanks and NO grattitude from those people. You might save a baby crocodile but it's parents will still see you as lunch.
The difference is that a crocodile is an infinitely nobler creature than an Arab. I'm all for saving the gators. If a building was burning and there was an alligator inside and a Muslim Nazi, who do you think I'd pull out? :P
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A very noble gesture to be sure, but Israel will get NO thanks and NO grattitude from those people. You might save a baby crocodile but it's parents will still see you as lunch.
The difference is that a crocodile is an infinitely nobler creature than an Arab. I'm all for saving the gators. If a building was burning and there was an alligator inside and a Muslim Nazi, who do you think I'd pull out? :P
But CF a human life is undoubtedly more sacred then an animal, be it an enemy of yours or not.
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We do not follow Christian morals on this forum we follow Jewish morals and laws, and these are to be merciless in war against our enemies. If you could prove that this girl and her family were loyal to Israel and the Jewish people, then I wouldnt have a problem helping her, but if her family in any way assists or even supports our enemies then no help should be given to them under any circumstances.
kahaneloyalist, this is a very good point that I also try to make when I can. I don't want people to impose their values on me. I insist on following the Jewish values. I would even argue with you and say that the values you are calling Christian are not really Christian, but some watered-down, bastardized version of "Christianity" that is nothing other than secular humanism. I don't want to start an argument on Christian theology on a Jewish forum - that would be improper. Suffice it to say that I have reasons to label these values secular humanist and distinguish them from proper Christian values, which are not universalist. It is a great misunderstanding to call Christianity a universalist religion.
It is a great shame that thunderbolt has been so brainwashed by the secular humanist Israeli public education. What do you mean by "ungodly hatred," thunderbolt? Do you believe in G-d? How do you understand G-d? What religious doctrine are you following? Or if the word "ungodly" does not literally mean "ungodly," but is just some metaphor, and you are a secular humanist, then why do you expect people who do believe in G-d to be convinced by your secular arguments?
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Ladies and Gentlemen,
Madame et Monsieur,
Brothers and sisters, at last,
Death to Arabs, of any age, should not become a goal by itself, since if we start killing all people who want to see us dead, we would have to kill 75% of the world.
Our goal is to save Israel at any cost to ourselves and others.
By not helping this girl, Jews would have achieved nothing. Nada. Zero.
We need a strong political representation that will ensure that Arabs live happily somewhere else.
As you can see, such goal is unfortunate, but critically necessary.
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I could be wrong but I think a Jewish doctor CANNOT provide medical care to an enemy of the Jewish prople under Talmudic law. I stand to be corrected if orthodox torah schollars know different.
From what I heard about Talmud's general attitude, this makes sense. I also heard that it is not wrong, according to Talmud, to show gladness when an enemy dies. But I don't know the Talmud, so let's wait for a scholar.
These are the two principles I would apply to an enemy (I don't know if they are correct from the Talmudic viewpoint):
1) Do not aid the enemy.
2) Do not harm your enemy more than necessary for achieving your strategic goals.
My cousin works as a nurse in a hospital in Beer Sheva that treats both Jewish and Arab children. So is she engaging in evil deeds by working in a place like this?
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I think it is common sense...
but if i had to save a life right then and there and had no idea of the person's political point of view was or if they were an arab or muslim etc..I would rather err in saving a life than not saving it..
So in the instance of this little arab girl, I would have had no clue whatsoever what the deal was with her as a pursuer of Jewish blood or even if her parents were a pursuer of Jewish blood...The right thing to do is to make the mistake of saving her life because more good can come from it...than standing idly by and doing nothing letting her die and causing revengful feelings from her parents (which either way would be existing no matter what was done).
In other words...let's just say it was a hamas girl from hamas parents, but you didn't know it...
-by saving the life:
bad = saved a life of a pursuer of jewish blood
same = parents still hate jews
-by not saving the life:
bad = the rest of the world sees it as worse
same = parents still hate jews
good? = one less pursuer of jewish blood perhaps?
let's say it was a regular arab that thought Jews were bad but only by lashon hara...
by saving the life:
bad = nothing
good = parents realize that not all jews are bad
good = little girl will remember that a jew saved her life and will hopefully go against anyone who chooses to pursue Jewish blood
good = PR campaign is positive
good = you feel good about yourself making some folks happy
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One of the suicide bombers(she was foiled) had been saved when she was a child by a Jewish doctor, sorry I dont remember which one.
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We do not follow Christian morals on this forum we follow Jewish morals and laws, and these are to be merciless in war against our enemies. If you could prove that this girl and her family were loyal to Israel and the Jewish people, then I wouldnt have a problem helping her, but if her family in any way assists or even supports our enemies then no help should be given to them under any circumstances.
Who says Jewish and Christian morals are not one in the same on this matter? We are used to a watered-down, bastardized PC castrated form of the Gospels today that completely misses the point. NOWHERE does the New Testament teach for nations to be merciful to Nazis. Read Matthew 15: 24-8. When the Canaanite woman (Canaanites were that era's equivalent of Arab Muslim Nazis) asks for her daughter to be exorcised from the demon (probably Allah) inhabiting her, Jesus makes clear he was sent only to the children of Israel, and that Canaanites are dogs. The woman's daughter is purged only after the woman acknowledges to Christ that her people are vile Nazi animals.
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Death to Arabs, of any age, should not become a goal by itself, since if we start killing all people who want to see us dead, we would have to kill 75% of the world.
I would say that it is more than that, but Scripture does say exactly what should happen to them. Both testaments of the Bible (Jewish and Christian, that is) teach that evil people deserve death.
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Death to Arabs, of any age, should not become a goal by itself, since if we start killing all people who want to see us dead, we would have to kill 75% of the world.
I would say that it is more than that, but Scripture does say exactly what should happen to them. Both testaments of the Bible (Jewish and Christian, that is) teach that evil people deserve death.
CF, as I said, they could deserve 5 deaths, but it is not the goal. You could kill some of them as a result of achieving your goal, but you should not go to kill just to kill.
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Who says kill anybody? They could have refused to treat her. That's all they needed to do.
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Who says kill anybody? They could have refused to treat her. That's all they needed to do.
That's all they need to do to achieve what? I mean, what the death of one kid would bring to us? Really... think about it.
But you can take actions of larger scale to ensure that they are no longer within the jurisdiction of our police or doctors, that is out of Israel.
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That little girl was living for the day she could get to murder her very first Jew. The Arabs want to be independent--they want their own state--why couldn't an Arab hospital treat her?
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That little girl was living for the day she could get to murder her very first Jew. The Arabs want to be independent--they want their own state--why couldn't an Arab hospital treat her?
You started out very good with saying that "The Arabs want to be independent", and they should be independent somewhere else, and the way to do that is not by a single accident of proudly refusing to help. You encourage them to leave, and then all Arab hospitals in the world will be at their disposal.
Why find sadistic and masochistic measures, when there are simple solutions?
I mean, you don't rape a woman, who is trying to seduce you.
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How do you compare rape to doing nothing?
This Muslim child was wounded by a fellow Muslim. Let's let her own kind step up and save her life. But they would have loved to see the girl die. That way, they could drag her body before the Associated Nazi Press' cameras and claim that Israelis killed her.
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How do you compare rape to doing nothing?
This Muslim child was wounded by a fellow Muslim. Let's let her own kind step up and save her life. But they would have loved to see the girl die. That way, they could drag her body before the Associated Nazi Press' cameras and claim that Israelis killed her.
By saying "you don't rape a woman, who is trying to seduce you" I mean that it is dumb to create problems for yourself in order to resolve them later.
I mean, winning in so many wars, and telling Arabs to stay every time is the highest level of idiotism and masochism in my understanding.
Americans kicked out 2 million Japanese during WWII. They did not kill them. They let them go. And it is better than killing them, if at the end you achieve the same result - homeland free of enemy.
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I'll add something more.
Americans later still killed over 300,000 Japanese in the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but then those people were the enemy nation, and not American nationals.
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And look at Japan now.
The inventors of kamikaze attacks are now the most Westernized country in South Asia. and they thank America for their success.
And now look at Israel and feel the difference.
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My cousin works as a nurse in a hospital in Beer Sheva that treats both Jewish and Arab children. So is she engaging in evil deeds by working in a place like this?
She should not be treating arab children, unless they are children of Christian, Israel-loving Arabs. It is legitimate, IMHO, to help this category.
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Here's a solution:
Whenever an Arab is hit with a rock by another Arab, or whenever they need free medical attention that they leach off the "cruel, oppressive Jews, and the 'apartheid' Israeli Government occpupation forces", they should be forced to sign a paper saying that they will leave Israel.
If they (or their parents) don't sign, no treatment.
If they sign, we can treat them and as soon as they get out of the hospitable bed, they gather their belongings and are on a train out of Israel and not allowed anywhere within the boarders of Eretz Israel.
They get to leave with their lives and plenty of Arab nations for them to settle in.
Else they can try their luck in the Gaza local hospital.
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Here's a solution:
Whenever an Arab is hit with a rock by another Arab, or whenever they need free medical attention that they leach off the "cruel, oppressive Jews, and the 'apartheid' Israeli Government occpupation forces", they should be forced to sign a paper saying that they will leave Israel.
If they (or their parents) don't sign, no treatment.
If they sign, we can treat them and as soon as they get out of the hospitable bed, they gather their belongings and are on a train out of Israel and not allowed anywhere within the boarders of Eretz Israel.
They get to leave with their lives and plenty of Arab nations for them to settle in.
Else they can try their luck in the Gaza local hospital.
If I were a doctor and a sand ape wanted my help I would prescribe a bacon sandwich and a lead pill (7.62mm variety)!
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Here's a solution:
Whenever an Arab is hit with a rock by another Arab, or whenever they need free medical attention that they leach off the "cruel, oppressive Jews, and the 'apartheid' Israeli Government occpupation forces", they should be forced to sign a paper saying that they will leave Israel.
If they (or their parents) don't sign, no treatment.
If they sign, we can treat them and as soon as they get out of the hospitable bed, they gather their belongings and are on a train out of Israel and not allowed anywhere within the boarders of Eretz Israel.
They get to leave with their lives and plenty of Arab nations for them to settle in.
Else they can try their luck in the Gaza local hospital.
hmmm...you might have something good there.
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If I were a doctor and a sand ape wanted my help I would prescribe a bacon sandwich and a lead pill (7.62mm variety)!
There is a way to combine the two: Bacon-bit buckshot. You load shotguns shell full of bacon bits and blast away (of course only for non-lethal situations). They get molten hot bacon bits embedded in their belly.
I think this should be the new standard in non-lethal force situations when dealing with muslims.
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If I were a doctor and a sand ape wanted my help I would prescribe a bacon sandwich and a lead pill (7.62mm variety)!
There is a way to combine the two: Bacon-bit buckshot. You load shotguns shell full of bacon bits and blast away (of course only for non-lethal situations). They get molten hot bacon bits embedded in their belly.
I think this should be the new standard in non-lethal force situations when dealing with muslims.
Good point.
I worked in bio-tech. I know blood serum can be freeze dried into powder. Why not load freeze dried pigs' blood into hollow points? Top terrorist deterent for police and border guards etc. Pershing dipped bullets into pigs blood to kill moslem moros in the PI and burried their stinking carcasses in pig hide......they never attacked US forces again.
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If I were a doctor and a sand ape wanted my help I would prescribe a bacon sandwich and a lead pill (7.62mm variety)!
There is a way to combine the two: Bacon-bit buckshot. You load shotguns shell full of bacon bits and blast away (of course only for non-lethal situations). They get molten hot bacon bits embedded in their belly.
I think this should be the new standard in non-lethal force situations when dealing with muslims.
Good point.
General pershing dipped bullets into pigs blood to kill morro moslems in the PI and burried their carcasses in pig hide. They never attacked US forces again.