JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Left fake JTF on November 18, 2011, 03:40:40 PM
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Does anyone know of any actions that have been taken against Neturei Karta in particular their leader the sanctimonious dog traitor "R." Weiss?
They are having a field day on YouTube, and elsewhere with their hateful propaganda against other Jews.
This is the lowest scum, worse than the Islamists, Neo-Nazis, and far left Antisemitic Atheists.
Check http://www.adl.org/extremism/karta/ for a short, and good description of the organization.
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We know who they are and have rebuked and cursed them for their hatred for the Jewish people.
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I read about them in the Jewish Telegraph sometime back, TRAITORS! >:(
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We know who they are and have rebuked and cursed them for their hatred for the Jewish people.
A lot of good that did!
That is not a JDL action. A JDL action would be beating the hell out of their sacrosanct traitor dog leader "R." Weiss or ending his wicked life with extreme prejudice.
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A lot of good that did!
That is not a JDL action. A JDL action would be beating the hell out of their sacrosanct traitor dog leader "R." Weiss or ending his wicked life with extreme prejudice.
LMAO at the way you phrased that. JTF is a law abiding organization Dov
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Just ignore them. They are extremely few and crazy. They want the publicity you are giving them now.
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I think the worst thing about them is that they give Nazis like the Whorefront crew an excuse to claim they're not really anti-Semites. They say things like "We're against Israel/Zionism, but so are these Jews, so it can't be anti-Semitic". Same goes for other self-haters, gives the stupid Nazis excuses.
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YIP!
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LMAO at the way you phrased that. JTF is a law abiding organization Dov
Indeed. We only follow the law here.
Lol at the provocation though.
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LMAO at the way you phrased that. JTF is a law abiding organization Dov
This would be within the law -- Natural Law.
And Chaim ben Pesach spent 10 years in jail because he was following the letter of the law, and he is the leader of this organization so don't give me that crap about the JTF and the law.
Maybe you should join the Girl Scouts instead of JTF because you are very law abiding.
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Just ignore them. They are extremely few and crazy. They want the publicity you are giving them now.
If I could ignore them I wouldn't be making up a thread about them on JTF.
And the fact is that they are enemy #1 for all Jews, and that can not be disputed with their successful hate propaganda against other Jews which results in violence from non-Jews to Jews.
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I think the worst thing about them is that they give Nazis like the Whorefront crew an excuse to claim they're not really anti-Semites. They say things like "We're against Israel/Zionism, but so are these Jews, so it can't be anti-Semitic". Same goes for other self-haters, gives the stupid Nazis excuses.
These guys are on the world stage. I am not so concerned with one group like the pathetic StørmFrønt neo-Nazis.
What they did with Ahmadinejad in Iran was much more damaging!
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Indeed. We only follow the law here.
Lol at the provocation though.
I would like to laugh too if I knew what the provocation was.
I was stating facts. These would be ligitimate JDL actions, Cursing, praying, and doing the tango don't qualify.
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(http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/SwMWPlUWWoU/default.jpg) The sanctimonious dog traitor and clown leader of Neturei Karta, Weiss. Unfortunately these clowns do more damage than 10,000 Israeli rockets.
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Just ignore them. They are extremely few and crazy. They want the publicity you are giving them now.
Neturei Karta is one of the most successful hate propaganda organizations (check.adl.org and elsewhere)
They are no more extreme, not so few, (a few thousand supporters), and crazy than we are. They just follow an evil ideology like the Islamists or neo-Nazis.
I am shocked that you are suggesting that anybody should follow an ostrich in the sand policy against them.
In the JDL we never ignore our enemies, and R. Kahane never did.
You are lucky that you are living now because in the Holocaust you would have never survived by ignoring the Nazis and their supporters.
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This is the lowest scum, worse than the Islamists, Neo-Nazis, and far left Antisemitic Atheists.
Check http://www.adl.org/extremism/karta/ for a short, and good description of the organization.
I agree they are worse because they claim to act in the name of Judaism, which is more confusing.
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This would be within the law -- Natural Law.
And Chaim ben Pesach spent 10 years in jail because he was following the letter of the law, and he is the leader of this organization so don't give me that crap about the JTF and the law.
Maybe you should join the Girl Scouts instead of JTF because you are very law abiding.
11 posts and all of them starting trouble TROLL ALERT
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This would be within the law -- Natural Law.
And Chaim ben Pesach spent 10 years in jail because he was following the letter of the law, and he is the leader of this organization so don't give me that crap about the JTF and the law.
Maybe you should join the Girl Scouts instead of JTF because you are very law abiding.
Yes he went to jail, which is what he does NOT want to happen with us because we have other goals. We are not trying to free Soviet Jews, we are trying to build a mass movement. That does not happen from jail. You certainly talk tough when it comes to OTHER PEOPLE doing dangerous things. The only girl scout here is you because you try to convince others to do what you cannot.
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If I could ignore them I wouldn't be making up a thread about them on JTF.
And the fact is that they are enemy #1 for all Jews, and that can not be disputed with their successful hate propaganda against other Jews which results in violence from non-Jews to Jews.
Naturei karta are irrelevant garbage. The ones who are destroying the Jewish people sit in the knesset. And they truly have the power to harm us.
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I would like to laugh too if I knew what the provocation was.
I was stating facts. These would be ligitimate JDL actions, Cursing, praying, and doing the tango don't qualify.
This is JTF, not JDL.
The provocation is that you are trying to get someone else to break the law or to write something here that is against the law, perhaps so the authorities can shut down our site. So either you need to be smarter about what you type here, or you are a provocateur looking to get our site shut down.
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Neturei Karta is one of the most successful hate propaganda organizations (check.adl.org and elsewhere)
They are no more extreme, not so few, (a few thousand supporters), and crazy than we are. They just follow an evil ideology like the Islamists or neo-Nazis.
I am shocked that you are suggesting that anybody should follow an ostrich in the sand policy against them.
In the JDL we never ignore our enemies, and R. Kahane never did.
You are lucky that you are living now because in the Holocaust you would have never survived by ignoring the Nazis and their supporters.
You do realize that nature karta were around in his time, right? And now think how little energy he devoted to those spineless useless clowns. Think of where the Rav did focus his energy. It wasn't at them, as evil as they are. Its like telling me to focus on an ant while there is an elephant in the room.
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I agree they are worse because they claim to act in the name of Judaism, which is more confusing.
They pervert the Torah.
They have the status of the most vile apikorsim in the Torah, and it is great mitzva per the Torah to kill such a person. They have themselves made one with evil so the following Torah sayings apply where in this case the evil has to be destroyed.
"The fear of the Lord is to hate evil...." (Mishlei 8:13)
"You who love the Lord hate evil...." (Tehillim 97:10)
The Three Oaths on which they base their philosophy are totally bogus now.
The Three Oaths is the popular name for a Midrash found in the Talmud, which relates that G-d adjured three oaths upon the world. Two of the oaths pertain to the Jewish people, and one of the oaths pertains to the other nations of the world. The Jews for their part were sworn not to go up from Exile to the Land of Israel en masse and not to rebel against the other nations, and the other nations in their turn were sworn not to subjugate the Jews excessively.
Zionist arguments that consider the Three Oaths
An overview of some of the primary claims made by Religious Zionists concerning the Three Oaths:
The Three Oaths are an Aggadic Midrash, and therefore they are not Halakhically obligatory (Aggadic Midrashim, as opposed to Halachic Midrashim are not traditionally understood as a valid source for Halacha). Accordingly, Maimonides' Mishne Torah, the Arba'ah Turim, the Shulchan Aruch, and other halachic sources do not cite the Three Oaths or rule accordingly. They are not found there at all.
The League Of Nations' vote to declare the State of Israel fulfills the first condition of the oath to not rebel against the nations. Thus, when the League of Nations told the Jews to go home, it was mandatory that they do so. Just as Cyrus instructed the Jews of Babylonia to construct the Second Temple.
The Three Oaths simply meant that G-d had decreed an exile for the Jewish people. The fact that the Jewish people have successfully returned to the Land of Israel, and that the State of Israel has survived, is evidence that the oath is void and the decree has ended.
The wording of Maimonides in his Epistle to Yemen specifically states that the Oaths are “metaphorical” (see Maimonides above), furthermore in his Halachic work he places great value upon living in the Land of Israel, and forbids leaving it.
Although the Three Oaths were obligatory in the past, the gentiles violated their vow by excessively persecuting the Jewish people. Therefore the validity of the two other vows has been nullified. Religious Zionists point to a specific Midrash warning that if gentile nations violated this oath, then "they cause the End of Days to come prematurely". This has been interpreted to mean that Israel's re-establishment would be implemented sooner than originally intended. With atrocities against Jews throughout history, and especially after The Holocaust, the Jewish people were absolved of their part of the Oaths. Those who hold this position often rely on the Shulchan Aruch which states: "two [persons] who have taken an oath to do a thing, and one of them violates the oath, the other is exempt [from it] and does not require permission." As a result, the ban on mass-immigration to the Land of Israel became void, and Zionism and the State of Israel arose as a direct result of the breach by gentile nations of the Oaths.
Religious Zionists often point to Israel's seemingly miraculous survival in the numerous Arab-Israeli wars, especially the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, and interpret this as the State of Israel being preserved directly by G-d's hand.
The Jewish people did not return en masse to the Land of Israel, but rather through individual immigration as well as a series of five Aliyahs. Jews continue to individually immigrate to Israel today. There was never a point in history where a majority of world Jewry collectively migrated to the Land of Israel.
It is not clearly established in either the Gemara or the Halacha what precisely would constitute permission from the nations. As such, the Balfour Declaration, San Remo conference, United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181, and the League of Nations-issued Mandate for Palestine plan of July 24, 1922 is understood as representing permission and approval from the nations of the world. Accordingly, the Jewish people cannot be considered to have rebelled against the nations. This was the opinion of Rabbi Meir Simcha of Dvinsk regarding the Balfour Declaration.
Jewish religious texts warned that during the apocalyptic War of Gog and Magog, the gentile nations will conspire with their Jewish allies to destroy Israel. The Jewish allies are considered by some to be current Anti-Zionist Jewry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Oaths
NETUREI KARTA
These Jews Make Satan Look Good!
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You do realize that nature karta were around in his time, right? And now think how little energy he devoted to those spineless useless clowns. Think of where the Rav did focus his energy. It wasn't at them, as evil as they are. Its like telling me to focus on an ant while there is an elephant in the room.
In his time they were weak. Now they are strong. Just open your eyes, and look at all the hateful propaganda they put out. Start with YouTube, and you will see how they entice MANY goyim to hate other Jews, and also don't forget that they are successful in placing their hateful propaganda against other Jews on the national, and international stage.
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In his time they were weak. Now they are strong. Just open your eyes, and look at all the hateful propaganda they put out. Start with YouTube, and you will see how they entice MANY goyim to hate other Jews, and also don't forget that they are successful in placing their hateful propaganda against other Jews on the national, and international stage.
No, open YOUR eyes. They have always put out hateful propaganda. They have always been worms and always will be.
Meanwhile the Israeli govt destroys the settlements and you think it doesn't matter?
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No, open YOUR eyes. They have always put out hateful propaganda. They have always been worms and always will be.
Meanwhile the Israeli govt destroys the settlements and you think it doesn't matter?
Are you putting words in my mouth? Did I say anything about settlements. This topic is about Neturei Karta -- not settlements.
And per the Torah as I explained they are enemy #1, and it is great mitzva to kill such a traitorous apikores. The Vilna Gaon was talking about such people when he said it is mitzva to kill a hasid. I am basing myself on the Torah -- not my personal opinion.
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This would be within the law -- Natural Law.
And Chaim ben Pesach spent 10 years in jail because he was following the letter of the law, and he is the leader of this organization so don't give me that crap about the JTF and the law.
Maybe you should join the Girl Scouts instead of JTF because you are very law abiding.
Chaim himself has said that JTF is 100% law abiding and that's what we're going by here. If we allow posts that call for illegal activity, the entire forum can be shut down permanently.
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Just a thought I had- could the nk possibly be agents of the government?
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11 posts and all of them starting trouble TROLL ALERT
Hahaha Hehehe, You mock me, and I am the Troll.
Please don't respond to my posts anymore. This is my thread, and I didn't invite you to comment so stay out. You disgust me.
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Chaim himself has said that JTF is 100% law abiding and that's what we're going by here. If we allow posts that call for illegal activity, the entire forum can be shut down permanently.
What illegal activity? This is an open discussion. I didn't ask anybody to commit something illegal -- nor did I say that I was going commit something illegal.
All I am saying is what the Torah recommends in such cases. If that is illegal here then the JTF is a joke in comparison to its forerunner the JDL.
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We all condemn NK... Nobody supports them... What is concerning is that you are new here and have posted several inciteful posts...
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What illegal activity? This is an open discussion. I didn't ask anybody to commit something illegal -- nor did I say that I was going commit something illegal.
All I am saying is what the Torah recommends in such cases. If that is illegal here then the JTF is a joke in comparison to its forerunner the JDL.
The JDL was not a legal organization, the JTF is. I think in the case of speaking about what you described you have to be very careful how you word things.
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Yes he went to jail, which is what he does NOT want to happen with us because we have other goals. We are not trying to free Soviet Jews, we are trying to build a mass movement. That does not happen from jail. You certainly talk tough when it comes to OTHER PEOPLE doing dangerous things. The only girl scout here is you because you try to convince others to do what you cannot.
Yes he went to jail, which is what he does NOT want to happen with us because we have other goals. We are not trying to free Soviet Jews, we are trying to build a mass movement. That does not happen from jail. You certainly talk tough when it comes to OTHER PEOPLE doing dangerous things. The only girl scout here is you because you try to convince others to do what you cannot.
What OTHER PEOPLE did I talk about? I asked a simple question to find out if the JTF has taken any actions against Neturei Karta. You seem to be offended by that. I don't have a problem with that, but I do have a problem when you interfere with my right of free speech as a member of this forum. I have as much right as any member of this forum to express my thoughts as long they satisfy the terms and conditions that I agreed to when I joined this forum.
This is my thread. And if you don't like it who asked you to comment. You are a troublemaker, and you are placing the blame on me because you don't like my thread.
I'm expressing the Torah viewpoint on this problem, and if this bothers you shouldn't be in a Jewish forum!
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What OTHER PEOPLE did I talk about? I asked a simple question to find out if the JTF has taken any actions against Neturei Karta. You seem to be offended by that. I don't have a problem with that, but I do have a problem when you interfere with my right of free speech as a member of this forum. I have as much right as any member of this forum to express my thoughts as long they satisfy the terms and conditions that I agreed to when I joined this forum.
This is my thread. And if you don't like it who asked you to comment. You are a troublemaker, and you are placing the blame on me because you don't like my thread.
I'm expressing the Torah viewpoint on this problem, and if this bothers you shouldn't be in a Jewish forum!
Sir,
I don't know who you are but you have a lot of Chutzpah to come here and start lecturing our long time good members of JTF. Maybe you have good intentions but several of those who you are addressing today are moderators and honorable JTF members. You should show a little more respect considering you have made a total of 17 posts to date.
Maybe you should spend some time learning just what JTF is and what it isn't. JTF never intends to be a replacement for JDL. That should be made clear to you from the get go.
While we share your contempt and anger toward NK, we do not share your opinion as to what we should do about it. Although nobody here would weep if something bad happened to NK Rabbis or their followers, do not expect us to openly say that someone should do something to them.
PS: It is not considered a 'right' to be able to post here, it is considered a 'privelege' and many people who have expressed opinions contrary to JTF have been banned.
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We all condemn NK... Nobody supports them... What is concerning is that you are new here and have posted several inciteful posts...
I have posted the Torah viewpoint on this. If you think that is inciteful than so be it. I follow the Torah -- not what you or anybody else considers the right course of action.
And because I am new here I have to censor my thoughts?
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I have posted the Torah viewpoint on this. If you think that is inciteful than so be it. I follow the Torah -- not what you or anybody else considers the right course of action.
And because I am new here I have to censor my thoughts?
No, but you should consider the fact that JTF has several goals and that we must remain on the legal side of things. Posting things which are inciteful out in the open is definately a way to get this forum in hot water.
If you are sincere in your feelings then I believe things will work out. But please be considerate of others input on this. We have had many new members who turn out to be trolls, those who want to paint us in a negative light.
Also you state that you are posting the 'Torah viewpoint'.... Where did you learn this? I agree with you about the 'three oaths' and posted about this a couple of years ago [if you search for it you may find it]... But there are some religious Jews who do believe that, not just the NK.... I know Satmar Chassids who believe that... And I do not hate Satmar.
See this discussion of the three oaths:
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,53734.0.html
http://www.ou.org/shabbat_shalom/article/masechet_ketubot_111112/
Ketubot 111a-b
Based on passages in Shir ha-Shirim (2:7, 3:5, 8:4), Rabbi Yossi ben Rabbi Hanina understands that there are three oaths that bind the Jewish people in their relationship with the non-Jewish world:
1. That the Jews should not return to the Land of Israel be-homah – "like a wall"
2. That the Jews should not rebel against the nations of the world
3. That the nations of the world should not oppress the Jewish people overmuch.
Rashi interprets the first oath to mean that the Jewish people should not return to Israel by force, all together (in fact, some manuscripts have ka-homah, which would indicate "all together"). The Maharsha argues that it refers to the actual building of a wall – which would indicate a rebellion against the ruling nation. Such building could not be done without the permission of the nations that ruled over the land, as took place with the return of Ezra and Nehemia at the beginning of the Second Temple era.
Based on his reading of the pesukim (=verses) in Shir ha-Shirim, Rabbi Levi believed that each passage implied a double oath. Aside from the three mentioned above, he adds three more:
4. That the end (ketz) should not be revealed
5. That the end should not be pushed off
6. That the secret should not be shared with the non-Jews.
Rashi understands that the fifth oath is a warning that sins and transgressions will delay the Messianic end of days, while the Maharsha suggests that it means that the people should not push off the ends of days in their hearts, but that they should believe that the Messiah will come swiftly.
There are also a wide variety of opinions regarding the secret that cannot be shared with non-Jews. While Rabbenu Tam believes that it is the secret of the Jewish calendar and Rabbi Avraham Ya'akov Neimark in his Eshel Avraham suggests that it refers to the oaths that are under discussion, it may not be connected with a religious issue at all. In a mosaic floor that was found in Ein Gedi, a curse is placed on the person who reveals the secret of the city to non-Jews. It is an apparent reference to a security secret; a way to enter the city.
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Sir,
I don't know who you are but you have a lot of Chutzpah to come here and start lecturing our long time good members of JTF. Maybe you have good intentions but several of those who you are addressing today are moderators and honorable JTF members. You should show a little more respect considering you have made a total of 17 posts to date.
Maybe you should spend some time learning just what JTF is and what it isn't. JTF never intends to be a replacement for JDL. That should be made clear to you from the get go.
While we share your contempt and anger toward NK, we do not share your opinion as to what we should do about it. Although nobody here would weep if something bad happened to NK Rabbis or their followers, do not expect us to openly say that someone should do something to them.
I don't want you or anybody else here to do something about NK. This was just a discussion if something was done by the JTF against NK because I believed that the JTF has replaced the JDL.
I don't understand the hostility by some of you for opening this discussion.
I thought I was among friends. I guess I was wrong. Consider my membership deleted in this fake Jewish activist organization!
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I don't want you or anybody else here to do something about NK. This was just a discussion if something was done by the JTF against NK because I believed that the JTF has replaced the JDL.
I don't understand the hostility by some of you for opening this discussion.
I thought I was among friends. I guess I was wrong. Consider my membership deleted in this fake Jewish activist organization!
I don't suggest you quit. My only suggestion is to be more tactful in the way you express yourself. Chaim has discussed this many times. As you are new you may not be aware of this.
I am sorry you feel this way.
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This lot epitomises treason with a capital T.... Scum of the earth.
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You do have to be careful how you word things but that doesn't mean you can't be controversial. You just have to stay legal.
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This lot epitomises treason with a capital T.... Scum of the earth.
And we curse them every day, three times a day, in our Amidah prayer. The curse on the informer applies to these traitors to the Jewish people. There is no dogma in Judaism which can justify helping the enemies of the Jewish people. They are lost souls, damned to gehinom for their treachery.
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No, open YOUR eyes. They have always put out hateful propaganda. They have always been worms and always will be.
Meanwhile the Israeli govt destroys the settlements and you think it doesn't matter?
KWRBT,
You are way to cool to be spending your time with someone like this: brand new to the forum and immediately the only behavior he chooses to demonstrate is that which attacks other members. Yes, to lively to debate, but I smell something else and it isn't girl scout cookies
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I've re-read all of this person's posts and I'm very sad to say that this person has an almost signature writing style
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What OTHER PEOPLE did I talk about? I asked a simple question to find out if the JTF has taken any actions against Neturei Karta. You seem to be offended by that. I don't have a problem with that, but I do have a problem when you interfere with my right of free speech as a member of this forum. I have as much right as any member of this forum to express my thoughts as long they satisfy the terms and conditions that I agreed to when I joined this forum.
This is my thread. And if you don't like it who asked you to comment. You are a troublemaker, and you are placing the blame on me because you don't like my thread.
I'm expressing the Torah viewpoint on this problem, and if this bothers you shouldn't be in a Jewish forum!
:o
Explain how I limited anyone's free speech.
Btw did you know that the law puts limits on free speech? The 1st amendment is not all-inclusive. For instance, the classic example they teach everyone in 5th grade social studies class, you can't yell "fire" in a crowded building (if there's not actually a fire). Similarly you cannot call for violent and illegal acts here. Its against the law to do so and if you don't like that take it up with your local congressman.
You ask what other people you spoke about. Isn't i t obvious? This whole forum. You asked why JTFers aren't doing JDL style actions and called us girl scouts. So I told you who the real girl scout is.
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KWRBT,
You are way to cool to be spending your time with someone like this: brand new to the forum and immediately the only behavior he chooses to demonstrate is that which attacks other members. Yes, to lively to debate, but I smell something else and it isn't girl scout cookies
I certainly hear what you're saying.
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If I could ignore them I wouldn't be making up a thread about them on JTF.
And the fact is that they are enemy #1 for all Jews, and that can not be disputed with their successful hate propaganda against other Jews which results in violence from non-Jews to Jews.
I think it's wisest to pray to Gd for justice against those traitors in this world and in the next. We are a law abiding organization.
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I think it's wisest to pray to Gd for justice against those traitors in this world and in the next. We are a law abiding organization.
This person's writing and interpersonal style are almost telltale
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And we have a troll here from the gaydl..goodbye Steve fageng