JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: IsraeliGovtAreKapos on November 27, 2011, 06:19:27 AM
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Just watch my video about how 2.5 million Jews smashed the f-k out of Allah's 250 million brave warriors in just 6 days
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvoOn3vOxXc&feature=player_embedded
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That was the IDF and State of Israel of which you usually put down.
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I want to see Islam destroyed.
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That was the IDF and State of Israel of which you usually put down.
Do you seriously think that it was the IDF (which then had a drunk sadistic narcissist named Rabin as a Chief of General Staff) who destroyed entire Arab armies? Wow. You must be really blind.
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Do you seriously think that it was the IDF (which then had a drunk sadistic narcissist named Rabin as a Chief of General Staff) who destroyed entire Arab armies? Wow. You must be really blind.
Educate me, who was it? Did the IAF not take out the Egyptian Air Force at the start? Were the soldiers advancing through Judea, Samaria, Jerusalem, Golan, Gaza, and Sinai not IDF?
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Educate me, who was it? Did the IAF not take out the Egyptian Air Force at the start? Were the soldiers advancing through Judea, Samaria, Jerusalem, Golan, Gaza, and Sinai not IDF?
The hand of Hashem himself allowed the idf to win. There is no other explanation ...
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Educate me, who was it? Did the IAF not take out the Egyptian Air Force at the start? Were the soldiers advancing through Judea, Samaria, Jerusalem, Golan, Gaza, and Sinai not IDF?
Yes, I am also interested to hear how Ron responds to this. Perhaps the IDF back then wasn't as emasculated and politicized as it is today. That to me would seem the explanation for how it pole-axed the arab losers.
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The hand of Hashem himself allowed the idf to win. There is no other explanation ...
Fair enough but you can say that about anything a person accomplishes.
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Fair enough but you can say that about anything a person accomplishes.
I am not speaking for Ron because I do not know what he is thinking, but...
I think that the IDF today is not nearly as 'righteous' as the IDF of 40 years ago... But no matter what the victory in 1967 was miraculous. There is no way that the hand of Hashem was not involved in that victory. The Torah teaches, in many places, that the victories which Israel achieves are not due to the great merit of Israel, not from the might of their hands, but from the goodness of Hashem, and his promise to our forefathers that he would watch out for us.
I am comforted to know that Israel possesses some of the greatest wisdom, knowledge, and technology in the art of warfare. If only we can overcome this fear of the 'public opinion' of the world and place our trust in Hashem then we will be unbeatable. So many times, on a personal level, I have faced down opponents and defeated them when I place my trust in Hashem. I am always grateful to the G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob for the livelihood which he has granted me and my family.
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Do we need to have a fight over this too?
Yes, the IDF physically defeated the Arabs in 1968.
Yes, it was Hashem that did it and not really the IDF.
No, the state of Israel and most of her citizens are not righteous.
No, the state of Israel should not be destroyed.
Sigh.
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Do we need to have a fight over this too?
Yes, the IDF physically defeated the Arabs in 1968.
Yes, it was Hashem that did it and not really the IDF.
No, the state of Israel and most of her citizens are not righteous.
No, the state of Israel should not be destroyed.
Sigh.
If the IDF gets no credit because G-d is responsible then what do people ever get credit for? The IDF trained the soldiers, devised the strategy and executed it. It strikes me as ridiculous to say they deserve no credit for that victory.
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G-D fighting our wars does NOT mean that we sit back and do nothing. For example King David (Alawv Hashalom) was a rightious King who was told by G-D that He would have great victories. And he did, BUT the Gemarah tells us that when he went to Battle he trained his men, and choose his best swords. Was this a deficiency of his faith and trust of G-D? Absolutely NOT. Remember one thing. We are required to do our parts. We can't and should not rely on miracles. It is even assur to do soo. (in most situations, unless told by G-D through a prophet under specific instruction). The best way the world works is through natural means. Because what we call "nature" is/are laws of G-D and G-D definitely works through nature (that is also the Hiddush of Purim).
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G-D fighting our wars does NOT mean that we sit back and do nothing. For example King David (Alawv Hashalom) was a rightious King who was told by G-D that He would have great victories. And he did, BUT the Gemarah tells us that when he went to Battle he trained his men, and choose his best swords. Was this a deficiency of his faith and trust of G-D? Absolutely NOT. Remember one thing. We are required to do our parts. We can't and should not rely on miracles. It is even assur to do soo. (in most situations, unless told by G-D through a prophet under specific instruction). The best way the world works is through natural means. Because what we call "nature" is/are laws of G-D and G-D definitely works through nature (that is also the Hiddush of Purim).
Nobody is saying we should rely on miracles here. But we must realize that we have fallen, pick the Jewish people back up, and regain our strength. I know that Israel possesses the strongest and best equipped army in the region. But even with the best equipment we can be defeated without the proper amount of emunah in Hashem.
And certainly if the IDF of today is not righteous it would be foolish to think that we will merit winning the next big war. Regardless of the amount of preparation and the superior weaponry, a Jewish army which is wicked will not succeed.
My prayers are that the IDF mends its ways, allows its religious soldiers to observe the commandments as their Rabbis teach them, and that it no longer illegally remove Jewish residents of the land from their homes...
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The day 5 and a half million Jews defeat a billion and a half Muslims would be amazing. Talk about a David and Goliath situation. Not realistic but it's a good dream.
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The day 5 and a half million Jews defeat a billion and a half Muslims would be amazing. Talk about a David and Goliath situation. Not realistic but it's a good dream.
Do not mock Hashem by limiting his ability to provide the Jewish people victory. While it may seem fantastical to us today, the Torah teaches us that such miraculous victories are possible.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYGCwOKK1xE
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Show me where Hot Spot mocked G-d.
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Show me where Hot Spot mocked G-d.
The day 5 and a half million Jews defeat a billion and a half Muslims would be amazing. Talk about a David and Goliath situation. Not realistic but it's a good dream.
It is just this kind of thinking which caused Sarahs life to be shortened. When she laughed at the thought that she would have Yitzak at the age of 99 she lost several years of her life. Just because it seems as if it is not naturally possible is no reason to limit Hashem by saying it is 'not realistic' or a 'good dream'. If it is not mocking it is surely limiting...
http://www.shlomokluger.com/Kluger-Books/Imrei-Shefer/Chayei-Sarah.html
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That's a stretch if I've ever seen one, Muman. Of course it's not realistic. No miraculous event is--hence why they are called "miracles".
I think you know that we are taught not to rely on miracles or to demand them.... don't you?
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That's a stretch if I've ever seen one, Muman. Of course it's not realistic. No miraculous event is--hence why they are called "miracles".
I think you know that we are taught not to rely on miracles or to demand them.... don't you?
Certainly.... But my point is that you are placing a limitation on Hashem, which should not be done. I am not suggesting that we should rely on miracles. But if you look into the story which we recently read, Chayai Sarah, you can see that when we doubt whether Hashem is capable of doing something, we should believe it till we cannot believe it any longer.
The entire reason Sarah was punished for her laughing was because she did not believe that it was possible at her age to have a son, and thus she thought it ridiculous that she would have Yitzak. And there is another belief of Judaism that we should never give up belief even when the knife is up against our throat... Is this relying on a miracle? No, it is remembering basic concepts of Jewish faith and trust in Hashem...
http://www.torah.org/learning/rabbiwein/5763/devarim.html
One of the most essential traits for leadership of any kind and most certainly for leadership in Jewish life is cultivating a “good eye.” Our Rabbis in Pirkei Avot emphasize that having a “good eye” is a major goal and accomplishment in life. A “good eye” allows one to be optimistic and hopeful, even though the realities of life are often discouraging and negative. One of the tests of faith in Judaism is the ability to be optimistic even in the face of overwhelming difficulties. Again, the Rabbis of the Talmud taught us “Even if there be a sharp knife held at your throat do not despair completely.” Despair, merciless criticism, pessimism, bitterness, cynicism - none of these traits and attitudes is acceptable Jewish behavior, and certainly not in those who occupy public leadership roles. The Torah demands that we always look at life and people realistically. We are not allowed to willfully fool ourselves as to the negative dangers that exist around us. All of that being said, the Torah then asks us to nevertheless be optimistic, hopeful, and to see life’s realities and circumstances through the prism of a “good eye.”
http://www.shemayisrael.com/parsha/peninim/archives/miketz61.htm
To have bitachon in Hashem is a primary component of Jewish theology. One must never give up hope for salvation. Chazal say, "Even if a sharp knife is resting on one's throat, he should not despair, he should not give up hope." For some people, every waking moment in the day is a lesson in emunah, belief, and bitachon, trust in the Almighty. They persevere amidst pain and anguish, with no prospects for a natural cure; never does their trust in Hashem wane, never does it falter. Everyone has his own "pekel," package, of tzaros, troubles and misfortunes. For some, it is health related, for others, it could be a situation in chinuch ha'banim, raising children - educational, emotional, social, or shidduchim, marriage. Each person is doled out his "pekel" package, in accordance with his ability to manage with the problem.
PS: What I am basically saying is that the IDF needs to get back to basic Jewish education and learn to be the army of the Jewish state. We could be so much more if we had more faith and trust in Hashem.
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http://theshmuz.com/blog/parshas-bechokosai-the-power-of-a-tzibbur/
“If you go in my ways and follow my statutes…Five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and they will fall from your sword.” Vayikra 26:8
The Torah is very explicit that if the Jewish nation follows the ways of HASHEM, we will enjoy peace, prosperity, and success in all of our endeavors.
We will plant and harvest abundant crops, our borders will be secure, – life will be good. Included in this is a guarantee that in battle with our enemies we will be astonishingly successful; small numbers of our weakest soldiers will chase down and annihilate far larger groups of the enemy.
When describing this phenomenon, the Torah is very specific: five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand. Rashi is troubled by the proportions. If five will chase a hundred, then the ratio is 1:20. By that proportion, a hundred should chase 2,000. Yet the Torah tells us that 100 will chase 10,000, a ratio that is five times greater than what it should be. Why would the group of a hundred be five times more effective than the group of five?
Rashi explains: “There is no comparison between a few keeping the Torah to a multitude keeping the Torah.”
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I shall repeat my initial question: who here exactly was putting a limitation on G-d? Show me.
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I shall repeat my initial question: who here exactly was putting a limitation on G-d? Show me.
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,58561.msg526816.html#msg526816
One with a real faith would say, "Although it seems improbroble, it could happen"...
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You do understand the definition of "realistic", right?
"Realistic" means what can be expected to happen under a normal situation, under the laws of nature. The 1967 victory of Israel over the Arabs was about as unrealistic as you can get. That is how we know it's a miracle. Do you really think the IDF of that era, which numbered something like 20,000 trained front-line soldiers tops, truly defeated five combined Arab nations with the most modern Soviet equipment, training, and advisors by its own might?
We are not allowed to expect miracles, rely on them, or demand them. That is central to Judaism, Noahidism, and Christianity. We can ask for them humbly while simultaneously working as hard as we can but if we expect or demand them to happen, that is really mocking G-d. So to that end I'll not just agree with Hot Spot, but state that without G-d's intervention, 5 million Jews defeating 2 billion Muslims isn't just unrealistic, but impossible.
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Of course it's not realistic. No miraculous event is--hence why they are called "miracles".
;D
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;D
Good to see some people understood what Hot Spot and I were getting at.
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You do understand the definition of "realistic", right?
"Realistic" means what can be expected to happen under a normal situation, under the laws of nature. The 1967 victory of Israel over the Arabs was about as unrealistic as you can get. That is how we know it's a miracle. Do you really think the IDF of that era, which numbered something like 20,000 trained front-line soldiers tops, truly defeated five combined Arab nations with the most modern Soviet equipment, training, and advisors by its own might?
We are not allowed to expect miracles, rely on them, or demand them. That is central to Judaism, Noahidism, and Christianity. We can ask for them humbly while simultaneously working as hard as we can but if we expect or demand them to happen, that is really mocking G-d. So to that end I'll not just agree with Hot Spot, but state that without G-d's intervention, 5 million Jews defeating 2 billion Muslims isn't just unrealistic, but impossible.
Indeed, and it was 'impossible' for Sarah to conceive Yitzak... Period...
http://www.shemayisrael.com/parsha/bonchek/archives/vayigash68.htm
The Ramban takes strong issue with Ibn Ezra. He says thinking that such miracle could happen and not be mentioned in the Torah is a big mistake. The Torah (and life), says the Rambanm is an unending series of quiet miracles. Not all miracles are openly mentioned in the Torah. Sara's miracle was mentioned for several reasons; 1) It was forecasted by G-d's promise to Abraham; 2) Sara had stopped have "the way of woman' so biologically it was impossible for her to conceive; 3) Abraham was 100 years old, this doubled the miracle.
If you don't understand what I mean by putting a limitation on Hashem you should consider what you are doing by saying it is 'a dream' or 'not realistic' for this to happen. Sure under natural conditions it seems hopeless. But is the answer to give up hope? No, our faith and trust in Hashem is stronger than that.
You have some points there but you are missing the point I am making. We should not say that things are impossible to happen which Hashem himself promised us are not impossible, if we merit them. As we have seen in much of Tanakh that Hashem will assist the Jewish people.
I am not arguing with you. I have simply stated that it is wrong to disregard the promise of Hashem, to stand with the Jewish nation when the other nations are trying to destroy us, this promise will always be fulfilled. Will we suffer and will we take loses? Yes, this is the nature of a war of obligation.
Do not attempt to state that my opinion is that we should rely on miracles. We should have faith in the promise of the redemption...
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Another thing about NES- Nes is translated as a "miracle". But the root is banner. Something out of the ordinary is a NES. The 1967 was was a NES definitely. BUT that NES came about through toughness, preparedness, brains, Will and strength on the part of the Jews. With all of this, G-D made the timing exact as well and the fact that the missions were successful. Their are many inside things that were made by G-D. Even the fact that Jews received the "brains" and Bolls to carry such missions is from G-D as well. BUT lets never confuse the issues. Lets follow in the footsteps of King Dawidh Alav Hashalom who prayed to G-D and who prepared for war with training, with the best weapons available for him and with confidence that G-D is with him. "Even though I walk through the darkest valley,
I fear no evil;for you are with me;" is his proclamation.
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Muman is 100% right. The IDF won in 6 days with Gd's help. Everything that righteous people do that leads to success is with Gd's help.
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Muman is 100% right. The IDF won in 6 days with Gd's help. Everything that righteous people do that leads to success is with Gd's help.
Chazal try to minimize "miracles" as much as possible. It is the general rule. G-D created the Universe and created the system within the universe based on Laws. Their are laws of the Torah that obligate Jews to do and not do certain things. Their are laws for the nations (7 Noahide laws, general morality). Their are laws of animals and plants and all created beings (including "survival of the fittest"). Within the laws of the Torah their are laws of War and Peace and how to deal with enemies, friends, and neutrals.
As far as making "Tishuva" is concerned, YES we must make Tishuva. BUT the Hiddush of Rav Kahane ZTKL HYD, also his son Rav Benyamin Kahane ZTKL HYD, is what type of Tishuvah do we need?
Their are sins and consequences. The fact that their is arab terror is a consequence of the sins of surrendering land and being "nice" to the enemy, (also letting them stay on the land). That's just it. Read Rav Benyamin's commentary on Rosh Hashana and Tishuva. People are yelling "we need to make Tishuva" and pointing at the terror. Rav Benyamin said YES, we MUST make Tishuva, but in the issue of the terror its not kosher or Shabbous (Although YES these have MAJOR consequences as well, both in this life and the next) that will save us, its the teachings and implementation of "the Jewish idea" that will. Everything is cause and effect.
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Also to add what I said above- being more observant does weaken the enemy in a number of ways as well. Overall the reason why Israel belongs to the Jews is G-D. The enemy can and does say (as an excuse) see how can you claim that the land is yours if you yourself aren't Observant?
Also the Torah and Mitzwoth generally create a better human being and a more disciplined one as well.
The only problem I see is when some people say and claim that keeping Shabbous, kosher, learning Towrah will someone (through its own directly) affect the battle. I saw all of these things indirectly affect things, but only when used properly. For example learning Torah will (when learned properly without your own predisposed leftist flaws) install "nationalism", love of Israel and understanding of G-D's mission for the Jewish nation. also the fact that all of Israel belongs to the Jewish nation. BUT when one wants to claim to learn Torah (AS AN EXCUSE) against whats needed to be done properly for example fighting G-D's battles, etc. It becomes something dangerous and really kooky. That is not the original idea and ideal of the Torah. Or else people like King Dawid would have to run into battle with books and not swords. (Lehavdil like Eran- which got all those boys killed).
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Also to add what I said above- being more observant does weaken the enemy in a number of ways as well. Overall the reason why Israel belongs to the Jews is G-D. The enemy can and does say (as an excuse) see how can you claim that the land is yours if you yourself aren't Observant?
Also the Torah and Mitzwoth generally create a better human being and a more disciplined one as well.
The only problem I see is when some people say and claim that keeping Shabbous, kosher, learning Towrah will someone (through its own directly) affect the battle. I saw all of these things indirectly affect things, but only when used properly. For example learning Torah will (when learned properly without your own predisposed leftist flaws) install "nationalism", love of Israel and understanding of G-D's mission for the Jewish nation. also the fact that all of Israel belongs to the Jewish nation. BUT when one wants to claim to learn Torah (AS AN EXCUSE) against whats needed to be done properly for example fighting G-D's battles, etc. It becomes something dangerous and really kooky. That is not the original idea and ideal of the Torah. Or else people like King Dawid would have to run into battle with books and not swords. (Lehavdil like Eran- which got all those boys killed).
When the Jewish people keep their part of the covenant then Hashem will certainly keep his. All this talk of Miracles is irrelevant. Nature is no less miraculous than an unnatural miracle. Hashem created nature so that it will benefit the Jewish people. This is why the water which parted in the Sea of Reeds was made from the 1st day of creation with the purpose of splitting when the Jewish people became trapped at the sea. Chazal teach that every component of every miracle which happens was created with the intention of revealing Hashems providence.
Do not rely on miracles, but be strong in the knowledge that through study of Torah, doing the mitzvot, saying blessings, and doing kindnesses that Hashem will strengthen us, and the Jewish people.
http://www.shemayisrael.com/parsha/bonchek/archives/vayigash68.htm
RAMBAN ARGUES WITH IBN EZRA
The Ramban takes strong issue with Ibn Ezra. He says thinking that such miracle could happen and not be mentioned in the Torah is a big mistake. The Torah (and life), says the Rambanm is an unending series of quiet miracles. Not all miracles are openly mentioned in the Torah. Sara's miracle was mentioned for several reasons; 1) It was forecasted by G-d's promise to Abraham; 2) Sara had stopped have "the way of woman' so biologically it was impossible for her to conceive; 3) Abraham was 100 years old, this doubled the miracle.
The Ramban brings other examples in Tanach where events are based on miracles and never the less the Scriptures do not "announce" them as miracles. He says in this refutation he has "poured hot gold down the throat of the Ibn Ezra!
It is important to note that the Ramban himself will argue with the sages' viewpoint at times. But his main point here was that our life is suffused with miracles, ordinary existence is full of unnatural happenings - and we should be aware of this. This is for the Ramban a basic element in Jewish belief. Denying it, denies G-d's constant involvement in this world.
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Muman I don't read all your posts (not your, but what you copy/paste from other sites), but my point and issues to what you said last "When the Jewish people keep their part of the covenant then Hashem will certainly keep his. " and "Do not rely on miracles, but be strong in the knowledge that through study of Torah, doing the mitzvot, saying blessings, and doing kindnesses that Hashem will strengthen us, and the Jewish people."
Is exactly what Rav Kahane (and son) fought against soo to speak. Its an attitude and idea that some are espousing that if only we pray harder, if only we learn one more chapter on Mishna or Talmudh that our enemies and our problems will go away or just that Moshiah will suddenly come once the Mitzwah tank (metaphorically speaking) is full. Their is a serious problem with this.
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Muman I don't read all your posts (not your, but what you copy/paste from other sites), but my point and issues to what you said last "When the Jewish people keep their part of the covenant then Hashem will certainly keep his. " and "Do not rely on miracles, but be strong in the knowledge that through study of Torah, doing the mitzvot, saying blessings, and doing kindnesses that Hashem will strengthen us, and the Jewish people."
Is exactly what Rav Kahane (and son) fought against soo to speak. Its an attitude and idea that some are espousing that if only we pray harder, if only we learn one more chapter on Mishna or Talmudh that our enemies and our problems will go away or just that Moshiah will suddenly come once the Mitzwah tank (metaphorically speaking) is full. Their is a serious problem with this.
Im sorry you have a problem with it. There is nothing wrong with placing your trust in Hashem. I know that it works and there is nothing which you can say which will decrease my faith in Hashem, and his promise to the Jewish people.
There is nothing to be ashamed about being faithful in Hashem. A man who has emunah can achieve just about anything he puts his energy into. Blind faith is not what I am talking about. Hashem has given us the abilities which we need in order to achieve the goals which his Torah gives us. I am very surprised you are speaking in the name of Rabbi Kahane, that they stood against the study of Torah as a means of strengthening the Jewish people.
I watch Rabbi Kahanes speeches almost every day. The Rabbi was very clear that Jews must observe the Torah, that they need to strengthen their emunah through observance of Mitzvot. You claim that you have the writings of Rabbi Kahane, so show us where he says that Torah and Mitzvot are not keys to the survival of the Jewish people?
I feel that you are attempting to paint faith and trust in Hashem in a negative light. Think about what you are saying... I will show you that might and strength alone do not make a successful army...
Basically I think you are completely missing the point when you make a humorous statement like this:
if only we learn one more chapter on Mishna or Talmudh that our enemies and our problems will go away
Nowhere did I say this, and yet you sneak this ridiculous idea into your attack on my approach.... I have said several times that we need to have a strong and capable military which will be able to annihilate the enemy. Currently Israel does have such an army, with military weapons which dwarf the enemies abilities.... But what we need are Jews in power who will use them in order to achieve the goals that Hashem has for the Jewish people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw8rPega_6Y
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I think you are not understanding me, and i know I don't understand you as well. I in no way are telling you or anyone to "decrease your Emuna". My point is what is Emuna and what is not and many times in the world it is presented at opposite.
About Rav Kahane's writings (I include the son as well) check the essay in the Dara Shel Torah of Rav Benyamin Kahane ZTL HYD page 7 titled "What kind of Tshuva Do We need? "
a little part of it
"Obviously the Tshuva we see today is a positive thing that must be encouraged, but it is far from adequate. We must strive for a different kind of tshuva-one that is much more comprehensive and far-reaching."
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I think you are not understanding me, and i know I don't understand you as well. I in no way are telling you or anyone to "decrease your Emuna". My point is what is Emuna and what is not and many times in the world it is presented at opposite.
About Rav Kahane's writings (I include the son as well) check the essay in the Dara Shel Torah of Rav Benyamin Kahane ZTL HYD page 7 titled "What kind of Tshuva Do We need? "
a little part of it
"Obviously the Tshuva we see today is a positive thing that must be encouraged, but it is far from adequate. We must strive for a different kind of tshuva-one that is much more comprehensive and far-reaching."
I see...
I have always been of the opinion that we must work to strengthen our military through rigorous training and investment in technology. Israel has many intelligent engineers who should be put to work developing the next level of weaponry in order to ensure Jewish survival in the land. Here is one of the posts I made on this thread where I stated this belief:
<snip>
I am comforted to know that Israel possesses some of the greatest wisdom, knowledge, and technology in the art of warfare. If only we can overcome this fear of the 'public opinion' of the world and place our trust in Hashem then we will be unbeatable. So many times, on a personal level, I have faced down opponents and defeated them when I place my trust in Hashem. I am always grateful to the G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob for the livelihood which he has granted me and my family.
I think we agree.... I agree that the next level of Teshuva would be for all of us to stand up, make aliyah, and stand up against the nations which seek our destruction... That would be the 'different kind' of Teshuva Rabbi Binyamin Kahane seemed to be talking about...
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Muman is 100% right. The IDF won in 6 days with Gd's help. Everything that righteous people do that leads to success is with Gd's help.
That's what I said all along.
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Also I'll tell of of a personal example- their are people (yes even Rabbis) - I very much respect and everything, but when we debate some of these issues things like this is said-
We need to trust Hash-m. Who do you think is fighting our wars, the army or Hash-m? You don't know how much us learning Torah right now is helping Jews across the globe. etc.
I answer (in these topics) we need to fight against Jew haters. The solution to fighting Hamas is to whip them out.
(common/typical) Response- (either) common that not right, (or once this is also defeated and proven wrong) - Common Israel can't do that to the Arabs just look at what the world says when Israel bombs just 1 target, or- but America will go against Israel. Or Israel will be condemned in the U.N.
- the question and answer is where is the EMUNA? The proper Emuna in the proper time? When it comes to Israel and fighting we are suddenly told that we need Emuna and not guns. When it comes to the nations condemning Israel and things like that all of a sudden we need to "be practical" and by practical they mean to give in (which is suicide!) .
Soo faith and trust are extremely important. Its just how this and everything lately in this generation is upside down and distorted.
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I think we agree...
We do. I was trying to point out though how others usually say similar things, but mean differently (as seen when furthus discussing such topics with them).
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To me, my personal Teshuva, involves recognizing that Hashem has created enemies in this world. The Torah has taught me that since the beginning of the Jewish people there has been hatred of those who follow Hashems commandments. Either through jealousy or plain hatred they have oppressed us, killed us, tried to convert us, and they mocked us. The enemy is very real to the Jew, and the psalms of David HaMelech are full of descriptions of the enemy.
While Chassidus teaches that in some occasions the 'enemy' is really the yetzer hara, the force within us which drives us to do wrong. But other times the 'enemy' is clearly an external force which seeks to kill the Jewish people. We indeed have two enemies, the enemy within and the enemy without. It is wise for a Jewish man to work on his character traits through the study of Torah, since it will strengthen him in faith and trust, and he will know what he is obligated to do and not do. It is said that Torah study is the antidote to the yetzer hara, and I do believe this to be true {to an extent}...
But Torah study, as was stated before, also does bring us to believe that the Jewish peoples mission in this world is a struggle. That we are obligated to keep our side of the bargain {to keep the commandments} in order to be able to merit the blessings which are enumerated in the Torah. And alongside those very blessings we find the very curses which Hashem brings against his own people. When I recite the Shema prayer and concentrate on the words while saying 'And it will come to pass that if you continually hearken to My commandments that I command you today, to love Hashem, your G-d, and to serve Him, with all your heart and with all your soul - then I will provide rain for your land in its proper time, the early rain and late rains, that you may gather your grain, your wine, and your oil..." I think about how important it is to trust in Hashem.
The Torah is truth, so say the sages... Thus we must study Torah to strengthen ourselves, thus strengthening our brothers and sisters, and our friends and neighbors, and we strengthen our Jewish community... One leads to the next.
Again I realize everyones experience is different. May we all achieve the level of emunah we need in order to achieve our lifes goals.
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Also I'll tell of of a personal example- their are people (yes even Rabbis) - I very much respect and everything, but when we debate some of these issues things like this is said-
We need to trust Hash-m. Who do you think is fighting our wars, the army or Hash-m? You don't know how much us learning Torah right now is helping Jews across the globe. etc.
I answer (in these topics) we need to fight against Jew haters. The solution to fighting Hamas is to whip them out.
(common/typical) Response- (either) common that not right, (or once this is also defeated and proven wrong) - Common Israel can't do that to the Arabs just look at what the world says when Israel bombs just 1 target, or- but America will go against Israel. Or Israel will be condemned in the U.N.
- the question and answer is where is the EMUNA? The proper Emuna in the proper time? When it comes to Israel and fighting we are suddenly told that we need Emuna and not guns. When it comes to the nations condemning Israel and things like that all of a sudden we need to "be practical" and by practical they mean to give in (which is suicide!) .
Soo faith and trust are extremely important. Its just how this and everything lately in this generation is upside down and distorted.
Either I am witnessing miracles, or I am just lucky. The small Jewish community I am involved with has shifted more to the right over the years I have davened with them. I regularly bring up Rabbi Kahane and most people will have good things to say about him. Also concerning the security situation in Israel... Last High Holidays I brought it up at the Rosh Hashana dinner table and everyone at the table shared my opinion that Israel should not give up any land, and that Obama was dead wrong on his 1967 borders statements...
I feel that WE can change the Jews around us if we approach them in the proper way...
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Remember that after the 1967 war the idf thought they were invincible and didn't attribute their win as a miracle. So 1973 yin Kippur war happened.
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Remember that after the 1967 war the idf thought they were invincible and didn't attribute their win as a miracle. So 1973 yin Kippur war happened.
Good point
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Good point
Axl Rose, Really? I would not have thought...
I vaguely remember liking that band...