JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dr. Dan on June 18, 2007, 07:02:25 PM
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This is in regards to Chaim's story about the Rebbe giving Chaim two dollars, grabbing his arm and staring at him.. (which was a very moving story and brought tears to my eyes)
My interpretation: Very huge..I think the Rebbe knew how important Chaim will be in the future. My interpretation for the two one dollar bills...One for tzedaka to a poor person..the other to symbolize all Jews and humanity. The stare by the rebbe and grabbing Chaim's arm..maybe he was telepathically saying a million emotions and words all at once to Chaim..what he is, what he will do, how to do it and how to be...perhaps for all the future...or 10 years into the future...might have warned him to be patient...or told him to be strong...
Anyway, what do other people here think the rebbe was trying to say and do?
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It's very interesting. I know a very special Rabbi. He can teach the secrets of the Torah like nobody else-in my view his role is a very important one in the spiritual development of the world. But he's had a very difficult life. He's very interesting and special person.
He and another Rabbi went to the Rebbe once and the Rebbe also took him and the other one by the arm and actually took them behind the stand that the Rebbe uses. But this time the Rebbe told them a bunch of stuff-tons of instructions. It all seemed vitally important. The Rebbe asked them both "Do you understand what I've told you?"- In a serious manner" And they said "yes". The Rebbe told them more instructions and again asked him if they understood. They said "yes". They truly did understand.
The moment they left the Rebbe's presence they both forgot EVERYTHING the Rebbe told them. They felt shattered. While talking to eachother they both went to the local place where they tape all of these meetings with the Rebbe-it's called WLCC on Kingston Ave. They wanted to go get the video of their meeting. But the two of them were so caught up in their conversation that they kept walking by the store! They'd go back when they realized they'd gone too far and before they realized it, they were way past the store again! After this happened like 5 times he and his fried decided...they had heard whatever they needed to hear.
I really like what DannyCookie said. I have no doubt the Rebbe saw what lie ahead for Chaim Ben Pesach. I have so many stories of the Rebbe giving ppl. and myself vital advice in preparation for future events. I have no doubt the Rebbe knew what challenges Chaim would face. Maybe he was (somehow) giving him the strength he would need...the strength to be a leader of the Jewish people. It's not something that needs to be explained. It's just a gift, like the way Moshe "gave" some of his wisdom to the 70 elders in the Bible.
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lubab
I have a question in regards to the late Rebbe..and wonderful human being. there are some Lubovitch who felt that he might be the messiah. How do you feel about that?
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lubab
I have a question in regards to the late Rebbe..and wonderful human being. there are some Lubovitch who felt that he might be the messiah. How do you feel about that?
This really deserves its own thread.
But in short, I feel it is a valid position under the Torah sources.
See www.MoshiachFacts.com which is a great site which deals with the major questions ppl. usually have about this beleif.
If you have more questions about it after reading that site, then let me know.
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their is such a concept and actually a book (only studied by very few advanced Torah Scolars) where by looking at different parts of a persons body expecially the face you can tell what kind of person he or she is, (ex- people can tell by the nails if someone killed someone or not- my Rabbi (who mentioned this, but didnt study all of the book except knowing the nails- say some Israeli once and he could tell that he killed someone, he asked him and the Israeli said yes I did kill an arab once when I was a soldier.)
I went to a Hasidic Rebbe (dont remember from which group, but know that its a small group) a couple of times and he was able to tell me a lot about myself. He also asked me and everyone he meets who ask him for a Bruha to make a promise to keep a certian mitzva (which you havent yet) which he instructs each person personally.
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lubab
I have a question in regards to the late Rebbe..and wonderful human being. there are some Lubovitch who felt that he might be the messiah. How do you feel about that?
This really deserves it's own thread.
But in short, I feel it is a valid position under the Torah sources.
See www.MoshiachFacts.com which is a great site which deals with the major questions ppl. usually have about this beleif.
If you have more questions about it after reading that site, then let me know.
thanks..i'm goign to go ahead and read it...let me just tell you what my current opinion is.... Does it matter? When the messiah comes..no matter who it is, it will all just be the same..I do not need to be first on the band wagon to believe someone may or may not be.
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lubab, what a great story you told about the two friends!
I was also moved by Chaim's story about the Rabbi and the 2 dollars. I agree with what has been said - this is very significant. The Rabbi really saw into the future as holy people are sometimes able to. Chaim said that he was in his 20ies. So it must have been before his involvement with the JDL. Which means there was nothing about Chaim´that the Rabbi could have know at that point. He just knew with his 6th sense that the young person he's meeting is someone special and is destined to do great things. That's what I think.
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He also asked me and everyone he meets who ask him for a Bruha to make a promise to keep a certian mitzva (which you havent yet) which he instructs each person personally.
Do you get to choose which one or does he tell you?
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actually Chaim did start with the JDL when he was 14 so maybe the Rebbe say his great self sacrifice (not threw the media, but threw his aura and Neshama)
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his auro and Neshama)
What does this mean, sorry?
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He also asked me and everyone he meets who ask him for a Bruha to make a promise to keep a certian mitzva (which you havent yet) which he instructs each person personally.
Do you get to choose which one or does he tell you?
He tells you. The first time I met him I said okay right away, the second time I was like I cant promise becuase I dont know if ill do it for sure and I dont want to break a promise I made, but then he insisted and I said that I will try my best. (a Rabbi who was used to teach me said that he does this becuase their has to be something "given" in exchange for a blessing or something else the Rebbe or someone else gives, in order for a blessing to take effect better.)
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their is such a concept and actually a book (only studied by very few advanced Torah Scolars) where by looking at different parts of a persons body expecially the face you can tell what kind of person he or she is, (ex- people can tell by the nails if someone killed someone or not- my Rabbi (who mentioned this, but didnt study all of the book except knowing the nails- say some Israeli once and he could tell that he killed someone, he asked him and the Israeli said yes I did kill an arab once when I was a soldier.)
I went to a Hasidic Rebbe (dont remember from which group, but know that its a small group) a couple of times and he was able to tell me a lot about myself. He also asked me and everyone he meets who ask him for a Bruha to make a promise to keep a certian mitzva (which you havent yet) which he instructs each person personally.
Which Mitzvah ?
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his auro and Neshama)
What does this mean, sorry?
(I can write a lot about it, but in a hurry so will write a quick note)
Neshama is soul (or Higher part of the soul), Aura is sort of the outer energy that radiates from a person. Their is an auro machine (which not only Jews use but its used in different parts), I was at a lecture where this guy came from Israel and did a lecture about this (and about water) to make things short theirs different colors of Auro that people have and increasing holiness and doing mitzvot raise the levels. for example he plugged the machine to a guy wearing Tefillin and the auro was partly purple and a lot white light (which are the highest levels)
You have to see it to believe it, if your in Israel this guy is available in Ramle hes a Rabbi and also incharge of a preschool center. Im sure he does lectures and demonstrations their too.
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his auro and Neshama)
What does this mean, sorry?
(I can write a lot about it, but in a hurry so will write a quick note)
Neshama is soul (or Higher part of the soul), Aura is sort of the outer energy that radiates from a person. Their is an auro machine (which not only Jews use but its used in different parts), I was at a lecture where this guy came from Israel and did a lecture about this (and about water) to make things short theirs different colors of Auro that people have and increasing holiness and doing mitzvot raise the levels. for example he plugged the machine to a guy wearing Tefillin and the auro was partly purple and a lot white light (which are the highest levels)
You have to see it to believe it, if your in Israel this guy is available in Ramle hes a Rabbi and also incharge of a preschool center. Im sure he does lectures and demonstrations their too.
This is very interesting! Thank you for taking your time to explain this. So I guess this Rabbi could see his aura without any machine.
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That's an interesting story. Some Rabbis had the gift of being able see things in people on a spiritual level and some were even able to predict the future and a few had the gift of doing miracles. The Ribnitzer Rebbe Zs'l was able to do the later two. As far as the Rebbe being the Moshiach, every other Orthodox group besides the Lubovitch think that this borders on Heresy to think such a thing since the Rambam says explicitly that the Massiah must be alive and can not die before his mission is accomplished. Although I do respect Lubab and the Lubovitchers so this is the only time I'm going to speak about this.
The only thing that I don't like about these Rebbe stories is that they imply that if the Rebbe did not give you special attention, then you are not special and this is not true for everyone is special and has a mission to accomplish.
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I wonder how many other people Schneirson did the same type of thing to. Perhaps it's possible that he sensed something in Chaim. But I have serious doubts about him being the messiah.
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Moshiah can come from the dead. (remember "dieng" isnt the end of a soul and life, and not even the body necessarily -ex- ressurection) But that doesnt mean I belive him to be Moshiah and frankly it doesnt matter at all who Moshiah is, but what matters is what can we do to bring the process of redemption, Mitzvot, Milhemet Mitzva, etc.
we shouldnt underestemate what Jewish scolars we have and expecially had. even the least mentioned person in the Talmud minimally was able to resurect the Dead. recently the Baba Sali did a number of miracles when needed for example hosted a large crowd of people during a celebration with only one bottle of wine. He kept pouring and pouring from the same bottle having enough for the large crowds that came to him. Another example was when he got into a Taxi in Israel, he needed to go somewhere and the meter said that their was little gas, he told the driver not to worry and the gas was enough for the whole long trip.
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See Rambam Hilchot Melachim that discusses this http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=4059.0. He says that if someone who is the potential Moshiach dies without accomplishing his mission of defeating our enemies and building the temple then he is not the Massiah but he is no different that the other Righteous kings of Israel that died.
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That's an interesting story. Some Rabbis had the gift of being able see things in people on a spiritual level and some were even able to predict the future and a few had the gift of doing miracles. The Ribnitzer Rebbe Zs'l was able to do the later two. As far as the Rebbe being the Moshiach, every other Orthodox group besides the Lubovitch think that this borders on Heresy to think such a thing since the Rambam says explicitly that the Massiah must be alive and can not die before his mission is accomplished. Although I do respect Lubab and the Lubovitchers so this is the only time I'm going to speak about this.
The only thing that I don't like about these Rebbe stories is that they imply that if the Rebbe did not give you special attention, then you are not special and this is not true for everyone is special and has a mission to accomplish.
Thank you JDL4ever. I have a lot respect for you too. ;)
I just wanted to correct one thing you said: if you look in the Rambam there which you are referring to (in Hilchos Melachim), he says that if a Messianic candidate was "KILLED" (neherag) he cannot be Moshiach. He does not say this about a Messianic candidate who dies naturally (meit). I know this Rambam very well and would be happy to discuss it with you in private.
I agree with everything else you said though, though I obviously think the "heresy" label is thrown around way too loosely these days. "Heresy" applies to one who denies one of the 13 principles of faith.
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I don't want to divide this forum so I'm not talking about this anymore and I suggest you do the same as well.
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I don't want to divide this forum so I'm not talking about this anymore and I suggest you do the same as well.
Agreed.
That's why I said: (discuss further) "in private".
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The story of the Rebbe's giving Chaim two dollars rather than handing out the usual one dollar bill is auspicious.
Immediately the "double portion" mentioned in Torah comes to mind.
Perhaps the Rebbe was expressing that Chaim was gifted with twice the Jewish Soul than most of us, and was going to require twice the effort in steadfast strength (his gripping Chaim in a strong grip), and twice the amount of resources at hand, in his life's work for the Jewish People.
I have absolutely no doubt of the fact that the Rebbe knew all there was to know about Chaim; both past, present, and future.
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maybe the double portion symbolizes Chaim being connected to the land of Israel (even though hes not their it counts as if he is becuase he wants to do this mitzva with all his heart and soul, but is physically prevented from doing so currently). The double is what our sages said in that a Jew can accomplish 2ce as much in Israel then in the Galut. (its 4 times greater for a Torah scholar).
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I don't want to divide this forum so I'm not talking about this anymore and I suggest you do the same as well.
Agreed.
That's why I said: (discuss further) "in private".
You mind if I can observe your discussions? Include me in your exchanges.
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We're not discussing anything.
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I remembered a story. Not perhaps directly related to this topic - more about the Rabbis' uncanny abilities. The Satmar Rabbi came to the US to raise money for his institutions. He came with very few suporters who were all quite poor. He organized a fundraiser event. But it wasn't a success. The same few supporters came, who very very poor. The Rabbi sat quiet for a long time, and then he exclaimed: "I see we have no choice! The only solution would be if all of you became very rich and supported our movement with your money." And, indeed, in a very short period of time, all of the people who were present at this fundraiser became multi-millioners. I'm telling this story from memory. Maybe someone could correct me if they know some details.
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Wow. What a powerful experience that must have been for Chaim!
The hairs on my arms are standing on end this very moment.
With deep reverence, I would like to state my opinion regarding the meeting between this Great Man and Chaim.
The Rebbe clearly (in my opinion) saw the idealism and courage in Chaim. He was telling Chaim (in my EXTREMELY humble opinion) that it was his (Chaim's) destiny to dedicate his life to the Jewish people.
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Rav Kahane was Mashiach Ben Yosef.
Maybe Chabad people believe that The Rebbe was Mashiach Ben Yosef and he will be reincarnated into Mashiach Ben David.
Chabad people, some say a sizable minority, some say a majority, some say most, whatever it may be, believe that the Rebbe ZT"L is Mashiah ben David, according to my experiences. (I refuse to make this post an argument about whether or not the Rebbe was Mashiah, although I would like to say many things on this subject.)
If you just want to bash, I'm not really interested. But if you want to discuss the Torah issues-I'm here for you. PM me.
(Ppl. seem to agree it's not good for a public thread).