JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Spiraling Leopard on December 05, 2011, 08:47:38 AM
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http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/u-s-military-to-rescind-policy-banning-bibles-at-hospital.html
Walter Reed National Military Medical Center said they are rescinding a policy that prohibits family members of wounded military troops from bringing Bibles or any religious reading materials to their loved ones.
The decision to rescind the ban on Bibles came exactly one day after a Republican lawmaker denounced the policy on the House floor and called on President Obama to publicly renounce the military policy.
“The President of the United States should address this and should excoriate the people who brought about this policy and the individual who brought it about should be dismissed from the United States Military,” Rep. Steve King (R-IA) told Fox News & Commentary.
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King spoke from the House floor Thursday blasting a policy memorandum from the commander of Walter Reed National Military Medical Center written by Chief of Staff C.W. Callahan. The September 14th memo covers guidelines for “wounded, ill, and injured partners in care.”
“No religious items (i.e. Bibles, reading material, and/or artifacts) are allowed to be given away or used during a visit,” the policy states.
“That means you can’t bring in a Bible and read from it when you visit your son or your daughter, perhaps – or your wife or husband,” King said. “It means a priest that might be coming in to visit someone on their death bed couldn’t bring in the Eucharist, couldn’t offer Last Rites. This is the most outrageous affront.”
A spokesperson for the medical center told Fox News late Friday that the policy will be rewritten and its intent will be made “crystal clear.”
“The instructions about the Bibles and reading material have been rescinded,” said Sandy Dean, a public affairs officer for Walter Reed. “It will be written to articulate our initial intention which was to respect religious and cultural practices of our patients.”
Dean said the instruction was “in no way meant to prohibit family members from providing religious items to their loved ones at all.”
If that’s the case, why is the policy being rescinded?
“We don’t want there to be any misinterpretation of what we’re trying to say,” she told Fox News. “We appreciate Congressman King bringing this to our attention. We don’t want our instructions to be ambiguous.”
We appreciate him bringing it to our attention.
Rep. King said the military has some explaining to do.
“I don’t think there’s any excuse for it and there’s no talking it away,” King told Fox News. “The very existence of this, whether it’s enforced or not, tells you what kind of a mindset is there.”
“The idea that these soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines that have fought to defend our Constitution, and that includes our First Amendment rights to religious liberty –would be denied that religious liberty when they are lying in a hospital bed recovering from wounds incurred while defending that liberty is the most bitter and offensive type of an irony that I can think of,” he said.
The policy has brought strong condemnation from religious and conservative advocacy groups.
“It flies in the face of not only the Bill of Rights, but 200 years of federal law,” said Ken Klukwoski, of the Family Research Council. “This current administration is showing unprecedented hostility towards those practicing the Christian faith.”
“But beyond that,” he told Fox News, “We’ve also seen a militantly secular attitude of trying to sterilize the Defense Department of all references to faith.”
Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, echoed Rep. King’s demand that whoever is responsible for the memo be fired.
“It cannot be allowed to stand,” Land told Fox News. “It must be rescinded and the people responsible for perpetrating it should be fired.”
Land said the policy “shows the ugly face of the pseudo-tolerance of secularism.”
“They claim to be tolerant but this is as intolerant as you can be – to not allow wounded soldiers to have religious artifacts,” Land said.
King said Americans must “take a very strong stand.”
“Christians are generally nice people and for that reason they can victimize the Christians in this country,” he said. “There was a reason that Christ gave us the demonstration of righteous anger when he threw the money changers out of the temple. It gives us some license to throw these kinds of people out of the military.”
King said he’s been alarmed at a trend he’s seen to scrub Christianity from the military – most recently the decision to remove a cross from an Army chapel in northern Afghanistan because it violated Army regulations.
He placed the blame on the Obama Administration.
“This is Orwellian,” he said. “Who would have believed even two or five years ago that the Executive branch of government led by our Commander in Chief Barack Obama would produce some kind of document that would prohibit family members coming into our military hospitals
Klukwoski said he’s noticed a similar trend in what he called “anti-faith measures.”
“We are seeing a shocking level of hostility towards religious faith but beyond that – we’ve also seen a militantly secular attitude of trying to sterilize the defense department of all references to faith and references,” he said.
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I wonder if I can still bring a quran.
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I wonder if I can still bring a quran.
I bet you could!
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I don't like that reference to 'money changers' in the temple... That whole christian concept is based on some big misunderstandings by the church...
Actually there is nothing wrong with money changers in the Temple, the Torah discusses this {that people can come on pilgrimage to the Temple from foreign lands and change their money for the sacrifice easily}....
http://www.webshas.org/kinyan/shulchan.htm
http://www.jewishpath.com/parsha/shemos/shkolim.html
The Bet Din {the Holy Jewish Court} established money exchangers in the Temple courtyard to accurately exchange money from around the region and around the world into the holy currency, “Ha Shekel Ha Bet Mikdosh.” This holy currency is termed Sh’Kolim. According to the command of Hashem in Shemos 30:13 a Jew could not give just any money for the terumah offering. Why? The mitzvah... the commandment is for every Jewish male age 20 and above to give exactly the same amount. The terumah offering had to be “EXACT”. The rich could not give more! The poor could not give less! Every Jewish male was required to give exactly the same amount. To observe Hashem’s command, the Bet Din issued a half shekel coin in accordance with Hashem’s command in Shemos 30:13. This coin was ONLY issued... ONLY exchanged by approved exchangers in the courtyard of the Bet Ha Mikdosh. Why? Because one could NOT charge more for “Ha Shekel Ha Bet Mikdosh” than the exact amount. If an exchanger did, it would be in direct violation to this mitzvah of Sh’Kolim. That is why the only exchange was at the Bet HaMikdosh. The Bet Din regulated the money exchangers. They had to regulate and monitor the “EXACT” exchange of the world currency into “Ha Shekel Ha Bet Mikdosh.” This was extremely important for the fulfilling of the mitzvah of Shemos 30:13.
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That's a big stretch.
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i think the issue with the money changers is used to show there shouldn't be a money-making operation out of the church like those megachurches who bleed their members dry with the phony preacher getting rich. church should be about god, not about money making. i dont think it had anything to do with the jewish practice of the time. the money changers jesus threw out were corrupt businessmen of the time.
thats how ive been told.
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Great explanation by muman. It was never heard or never read earlier, at least by me.
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i think the issue with the money changers is used to show there shouldn't be a money-making operation out of the church like those megachurches who bleed their members dry with the phony preacher getting rich. church should be about G-d, not about money making. i dont think it had anything to do with the jewish practice of the time. the money changers jesus threw out were corrupt businessmen of the time.
thats how ive been told.
Thats what you have been told... But in fact there was nothing wrong with money changing in the temple...
This site explains why : http://www.jewishpath.com/parsha/shemos/shkolim.html
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By the way on the topic.... I think it is sick that the hospital would not allow religious texts or artifacts. I have no problem with 'freedom of religion' as long as nobody is trying to proselytize on hospital grounds....
I read Psalms to my father when he was in the hospital before he died...
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i think you're misunderstanding. the whole point isnt that the moneychanging was bad. its that the "moneychangers" were acting corrupt, cheating people on exchange rates and selling merchandise out of the church. ie doing what corrupt bankers and corrupt megachurch preachers do when they bleed their followers dry. i think youve been taught incorrectly on this manner.
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i think you're misunderstanding. the whole point isnt that the moneychanging was bad. its that the "moneychangers" were acting corrupt, cheating people on exchange rates and selling merchandise out of the church. ie doing what corrupt bankers and corrupt megachurch preachers do when they bleed their followers dry. i think youve been taught incorrectly on this manner.
OK... The Text itself just says that they were money changers.... According to the Halacha there are supposed to be money changers in the Temple from one date to the next {a short period}. What I don't understand is why, at the time, would there be any concern about 'mega-churches'? The commandment of the Torah is that everyone must come to the Holy Temple to make offerings. Why would there be any concern about 'mega-churches' at the time? Maybe there is an oral tradition that these were not the money changers which were commanded to be in the Holy Temple...
And no, the Jewish belief is that that your messiah was acting unreasonably to do this.. That the money changers were supposed to be there and he had a big tantrum for no reason. This 'money-changer' story in your bible has lead to much antisemitism...
I find no explanation as you suggested at the wiki page on this topic :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleansing_of_the_Temple
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I'm not here to debate this topic... I just want people to know that the Jewish view of what happened is vastly different from the Christian view... You {non-Jews} are entitled to believe what you want, but I hope that Jews would take the time to look into the claims made by the non-Jewish bible..
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Muman, America is a historically Judeo-Christian nation. That means that although there is a strong Jewish influence and component to the religious shape of our nation the Christian Bible is the guiding book of the land. I think it's funny that you think that the Christian Bible should be banned from hospitals.
Or do you seriously think that the Muzzie-appeasing pencil-pushers responsible for this policy wouldn't also ban the Hebrew Tanach and Midrashes? If that is what you think (and it appears that that is indeed what it is), you're rather naive, my friend.
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I'm not here to debate this topic
Ignorant us, that is what we thought to be the case:
I have no problem with 'freedom of religion' as long as nobody is trying to proselytize on hospital grounds
This, coming from a poster who actually posted a rant against Santa Claus once!
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Ignorant us, that is what we thought to be the case:
This, coming from a poster who actually posted a rant against Santa Claus once!
I don't remember what the issue with Santa Claus is... But I believe that there should not be Santa Claus in the classroom...
Here I reposted Tzvi Fishmans rant on Christmas...
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,41196.msg408964.html#msg408964
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Why should Santa Claus not be in classrooms? Can you explain that in lay terms?
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Why should Santa Claus not be in classrooms? Can you explain that in lay terms?
This is another topic all-together. But I explained in the thread I linked to how I feel about this season. Yes indeed I want to make aliyah and I look forward to being in a culture where Judaism is dominant... But I feel that having characters of one religion or the other causes confusion in young kids.
We should all be sensitive that not everyone celebrates the same holidays as we do. If a school will have Christmas holiday events and there are significant number of Jews in the school they should also provide some Channukah event. There should be the ability to opt-out of the Christmas party if the student so desires.
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Mmm yeah
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I'm not here to debate this topic... I just want people to know that the Jewish view of what happened is vastly different from the Christian view... You {non-Jews} are entitled to believe what you want, but I hope that Jews would take the time to look into the claims made by the non-Jewish bible..
Why should they even bother... Look at it as a form of revisionist history :::D
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Lol good way of looking at it cjd! :laugh:
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This is another topic all-together. But I explained in the thread I linked to how I feel about this season. Yes indeed I want to make aliyah and I look forward to being in a culture where Judaism is dominant... But I feel that having characters of one religion or the other causes confusion in young kids.
We should all be sensitive that not everyone celebrates the same holidays as we do. If a school will have Christmas holiday events and there are significant number of Jews in the school they should also provide some Channukah event. There should be the ability to opt-out of the Christmas party if the student so desires.
Many moons ago when I went to school here in the New York City public schools we never had problems like this... All the Jewish and Christian holidays were represented in the classroom and nobody ever had a problem dealing with it... Honestly I think people today look for problems... Liberals would have people believe relations were worse between different religions 30 or 40 years ago however I actually think they were better.
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Many moons ago when I went to school here in the New York City public schools we never had problems like this... All the Jewish and Christian holidays were represented in the classroom and nobody ever had a problem dealing with it... Honestly I think people today look for problems... Liberals would have people believe relations were worse between different religions 30 or 40 years ago however I actually think they were better.
You're absolutely right. The real reason for this ban at Walter Reed was to prevent Koranimal "soldiers" like Nidal Malik Hasan, ysv, from being "offended" by the Christian or Jewish Bibles.
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The way I've always heard it taught about is that the money changers Jesus was unhappy with were not exchanging at the correct rate, they were skimming off the top and profiting from it. The lesson to take away from that would be to deal fairly with others in business, don't be a cheat.
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The way I've always heard it taught about is that the money changers Jesus was unhappy with were not exchanging at the correct rate, they were skimming off the top and profiting from it. The lesson to take away from that would be to deal fairly with others in business, don't be a cheat.
That guy upset at the military policy obviously wasn't referring to Jews.
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Many moons ago when I went to school here in the New York City public schools we never had problems like this... All the Jewish and Christian holidays were represented in the classroom and nobody ever had a problem dealing with it... Honestly I think people today look for problems... Liberals would have people believe relations were worse between different religions 30 or 40 years ago however I actually think they were better.
I agree with CJD even though I am much much much younger than him :::D :::D :::D
In all seriousness, CJD is totally right. There were decorations in the classroom for Jews and Christians. No one cared, hated or fussed over it. Now though, the classrooms are more diverse, it's not just Jews and Christians anymore which makes it more complicated
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That guy upset at the military policy obviously wasn't referring to Jews.
Oh I know but I thought I'd try to help anyway. Sometimes I wonder if I should say anything.
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I know what you mean Rubystars. People do have the right to their opinions though. But I suppose that if the Christian Bible were successfully removed from our entire military by militant atheists, nobody would dream of doing that to the Jewish Scriptures... :laugh:
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I know what you mean Rubystars. People do have the right to their opinions though. But I suppose that if the Christian Bible were successfully removed from our entire military by militant atheists, nobody would dream of doing that to the Jewish Scriptures... :laugh:
LOL
As someone else already mentioned it's the Qu'ran that's untouchable.
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People should be able to read whatever they want in their hospital bed, especially a religious text as long as they are not making a nuisance of themselves by say praying loudly and being thoughtless about the other pts in their room that that they share. Common decency goes a long way to making non-issues out of these things