JTF.ORG Forum
Save Western Civilization => Save America => Topic started by: Circus Boy on January 09, 2012, 05:32:03 PM
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In 1996, the Santorum's son, Gabriel was born prematurely and died two hours later. Wife Karen Santorum wrote that she and Rick brought the deceased infant home from the morgue of the hospital without it being embalmed or prepared and introduced him to their six children as, "Your brother Gabriel"!!, and then driving the infant back to the morgue of the hospital. I think that this is gross negligence and child abuse and I wouldn't vote for this schlemiel just on this basis alone. It makes my skin crawl. OK, if they went home and asked the kids and if they said yes and they returned to the morgue with their parents with proper gowns and masks. He is a complete Catholic freak like Mel Gibson and his Opus Dei. He may have some good ideas on Israel but is that the only thing? He is like Norm Coleman, a flip flop- untrustworthy!! With he as President, we're in for big trouble!! Am I alone? How do my fellow JTFer's feel?
Karen Garver Santorum- "Letters to Gabriel" (1998)- CCC of America
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I would not think highly of someone who judged a man for how he handled a horrific personal tragedy.
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He is a sick man, that is sickening.
If this is how he handles tragedy he does not belong being president.
"Look children at your dead brother, who wants to take him to school for show and tell."
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בס''ד
He may have some good ideas on Israel but is that the only thing?
So even if he's good on Israel, you wouldn't support him because of some other issue? Are you Jewish?
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Does this story have a reference? It sounds fake to me.
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Does this story have a reference? It sounds fake to me.
Karen Garver Santorum- "Letters to Gabriel" (1998)- CCC of America-I don't have it.
I'll try to find it in the library and scan it and post it. I wouldn't buy it. Alan Colmes brought it up in a Fox News debate recently where he was moderator and got embarrassed immediately. It's mentioned several places on the internet but not quoted directly. Steve Malzberg, a personal friend of Santorum, mentioned it yesterday.
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בס''ד
So even if he's good on Israel, you wouldn't support him because of some other issue? Are you Jewish?
I am 100% Jewish but many of the candidates are acceptable on Israel and Jewish issues but if they have baggage on domestic and personal issues that I find difficult, that is a strike against them. I am not a Johhny one-note about Israel-that is- if they are good on Israel, they are immediately the one I will vote for. I am an American. I am not a hyphenated American.
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This sounds made-up but if it is true, I don't see what is wrong in what he did.
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I am 100% Jewish but many of the candidates are acceptable on Israel and Jewish issues but if they have baggage on domestic and personal issues that I find difficult, that is a strike against them. I am not a Johhny one-note about Israel-that is- if they are good on Israel, they are immediately the one I will vote for. I am an American. I am not a hyphenated American.
בס''ד
Any Jew that puts other issues ahead of Israel is a traitor.
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Can you give us a link to the article?
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Honestly Santorum makes me very uneasy... I find myself changing the channel after a few moments anytime he speaks on the TV... His political baggage is a mess and his personal baggage is not much better... I want a candidate that talks money and jobs... I am tired of hearing about abortion and condoms... This guy was run out on a rail in his own home state... I commend him for his stand on Israel however he will never be in a position to put that stand to good use... If this is what the Republicans plan to put in front of the American people in November they better start preparing the concession speeches now.
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Can you give us a link to the article?
I don't have it. You have to go to Barnes and Noble or Amazon.com or the library.
Karen Garver Santorum- "Letters to Gabriel" (1998)- CCC of America
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That thinking is what got you banned from Israel for life.
That really is uncalled for... Chaim gave up years of his life to help fellow Jews... You really should retract that nasty statement.
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That thinking is what got you banned from Israel for life.
SPEAKING OF BANNING!!!!!!!!!! I think its about time Circus boy went back to the circus!!!
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בס''ד
Any Jew that puts other issues ahead of Israel is a traitor.
I removed a couple of my over-the-top comments but I don't like how the word "traitor" or "malshin" is used by you so trippingly off your tongue or keyboard for somebody who has thoughts a little bit skew from yours or the upper echilon of JTF.
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I removed a couple of my over-the-top comments but I don't like how the word "traitor" or "malshin" is used by you so trippingly off your tongue or keyboard for somebody who has thoughts a little bit skew from yours or the upper echilon of JTF.
I find it curious that after less than 30 posts on JTF, Circus Boy already mentions about Chaim being banned in Israel. This is an obvious sign of a troll who has been here before, and did his homework before joining.
Also, he mentioned Opus Dei and Mel Gibson as typical Catholics.
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I find it curious that after less than 30 posts on JTF, Circus Boy already mentions about Chaim being banned in Israel. This is an obvious sign of a troll who has been here before, and did his homework before joining.
Also, he mentioned Opus Dei and Mel Gibson as typical Catholics.
Somebody has you all whipped into a frenzy, with delusions of grandeur as if you think you all really matter. If they can keep Chaim out of Israel, he is neutralized and so are you. I found the forum fun but you think you are going to take over the Knesset from a basement in Queens like Khomeini took over Iran from a basement in Paris, the two situations are not comparable. So I wish you A.M.F.
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בס''ד
So even if he's good on Israel, you wouldn't support him because of some other issue? Are you Jewish?
Chaim, that is not even an issue. He wanted his children to know they had a brother even if he did not live. Anyone can decide they would not do that but to put him down for that shows inhumanity and coarseness that makes me uncomfortable.
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This sounds made-up but if it is true, I don't see what is wrong in what he did.
It is true but as you said there is nothing wrong with it.
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Honestly Santorum makes me very uneasy... I find myself changing the channel after a few moments anytime he speaks on the TV... His political baggage is a mess and his personal baggage is not much better... I want a candidate that talks money and jobs... I am tired of hearing about abortion and condoms... This guy was run out on a rail in his own home state... I commend him for his stand on Israel however he will never be in a position to put that stand to good use... If this is what the Republicans plan to put in front of the American people in November they better start preparing the concession speeches now.
What personal baggage? He seems to be a good family man.
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That's not sick to me. It's a terrible tragedy for them.
I like santorum even more for this. It shows how much he cares about the living and dead.
As far as jobs and economy being important, I agree. However without morality, those things are short lived. In order to become a prosperous nation, we first need to be a moral nation. If we are a moral nation, we become patriotic. If we become patriotic, we work harder and therefore do better and as a result become inventive and prosperous.
You are what you eat.
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I don't like the term "traitor" used against me. Richard Nixon and Kissinger send arms to Israel during the Yom Kippur War of 1973. If I said I did not like him because of Watergate or the Vietnam War escalation or the secret Cambodia bombings, etc. am I a traitor? Then put your money where your mouth is and delete my account.
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Hi there Stephanie.
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That's not sick to me. It's a terrible tragedy for them.
I like santorum even more for this. It shows how much he cares about the living and dead.
As far as jobs and economy being important, I agree. However without morality, those things are short lived. In order to become a prosperous nation, we first need to be a moral nation. If we are a moral nation, we become patriotic. If we become patriotic, we work harder and therefore do better and as a result become inventive and prosperous.
You are what you eat.
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It is true but as you said there is nothing wrong with it.
How do you know it's true? It sounds pretty ridiculous, like something his political foes would concoct.
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I don't like the term "traitor" used against me. Richard Nixon and Kissinger send arms to Israel during the Yom Kippur War of 1973. If I said I did not like him because of Watergate or the Vietnam War escalation or the secret Cambodia bombings, etc. am I a traitor? Then put your money where your mouth is and delete my account.
What's the matter, did Ben dump you?
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I don't know whether he should have shown the other children but maybe he wanted to give them a chance to at least see their sibling and be able to grieve the loss.
A lot of parents who have this kind of thing happen to them just want some time at home with their dead child away from the hospital environment or a funeral home environment. They may want to take some pictures or spend a little time holding their child before letting them go. There's nothing wrong with this and I think it's healthy.
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I don't like the term "traitor" used against me. Richard Nixon and Kissinger send arms to Israel during the Yom Kippur War of 1973. If I said I did not like him because of Watergate or the Vietnam War escalation or the secret Cambodia bombings, etc. am I a traitor? Then put your money where your mouth is
Awww poor little circus boy doesnt want to be called a traitor.
By the way, RIchard Nixon did not escalate the vietnam war, that was Lyndon Johnson.
U.S. military involvement ended on 15 August 1973, during Nixon's presidency. I think you need to do a little reading between circus acts. I really expect more from a boy raised in the circus. :o
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Awww poor little circus boy doesnt want to be called a traitor.
By the way, RIchard Nixon did not escalate the vietnam war, that was Lyndon Johnson.
U.S. military involvement ended on 15 August 1973, during Nixon's presidency. I think you need to do a little reading between circus acts. I really expect more from a boy raised in the circus. :o
Circus Boy is Weifag.
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בס''ד
That thinking is what got you banned from Israel for life.
To Circus Clown:
If you are Jewish, then you are a self-hating, cowardly traitor. You call yourself an "American". You would betray America the same way that you betray the Jews. A wimpy backstabber like you cannot be trusted by anyone in any situation. You miserable, gutless weasel.
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Circus Boy is Weifag.
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No, Steven Weigang cannot put a sentence together in proper English.
This is either a wimpy self-hating Jew or an anti-Semite posing as a Jew.
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בס''ד
No, Steven Weigang cannot put a sentence together in proper English.
This is either a wimpy self-hating Jew or an anti-Semite posing as a Jew.
Which Weifag has done already many times.
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That thinking is what got you banned from Israel for life.
Only a piece of garbage would say something like this. This circus sideshow reminds me of chaim jr. actually.
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Good guess, I forgot all about Homo, Jr.
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Only a piece of garbage would say something like this. This circus sideshow reminds me of chaim jr. actually.
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It might be chaim jr. It's possible.
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Shall we I ban him/her/it?
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Do you really need to ask?
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No, Steven Weigang cannot put a sentence together in proper English.
I know one time Weifag sent me a message titled "You make fun about me". It was hilarious :::D
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Circus Freak has been banned.
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Circus Freak needs to drop the "circus" from his name in the interest of accuracy.
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How do you know it's true? It sounds pretty ridiculous, like something his political foes would concoct.
It has been discussed. Alan Colmes ymach shmo brought it up to put Santorum down. Rich Lowry scolded him for it and Colmes apologized. Nobody has denied it.
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How do you know it's true? It sounds pretty ridiculous, like something his political foes would concoct.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/rick-santorum-dead-baby-critics-lambasted-families-grieve/story?id=15306750
By SUSAN DONALDSON JAMES
Jan. 6, 2012
Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum has evoked squeamishness and ridicule for retelling the story of the death of his son, Gabriel, at 20 weeks gestation and the family's unconventional response -- taking the body home from the hospital and allowing their other children to cuddle the corpse and say goodbye.
The Internet lit up with comments this week after Santorum's meteoric rise to second-place in the Iowa caucuses, nearly tying him with presidential candidate Mitt Romney. Some described Santorum's story as "weird" or "horrifying."
Gabriel was the couple's eighth pregnancy and he survived only two hours. In her book, Karen Santorum wrote about bringing the body home to their other children.
''Elizabeth and Johnny held you with so much love and tenderness," she wrote. "Elizabeth proudly announced to everyone as she cuddled you, 'This is my baby brother, Gabriel; he is an angel.'''
But some mental health experts believe the Santorums may have been ahead of their time by ritualizing their son's death in order to exorcize their grief, though they say taking a body home is unusual and not recommended.
In the context of the times -- the year was 1996 when the family buried Gabriel -- their behavior was understandable, according to Dr. David Diamond, a psychologist and co-author of the 2005 book "Unsung Lullabies."
Helen Coons, a clinical psychologist and president of Women's Mental Health Associates in Philadelphia, said couples are not encouraged to bring a deceased fetus home.
Winslow Townson/AP Photo
Republican presidential candidate Rick... View Full Size
Winslow Townson/AP PhotoRepublican presidential candidate Rick Santorum, second from left, takes a hay ride with his wife, Karen, left, his daughter, Sarah Maria, his son, Daniel, third and fourth from left respectively, in Candia, N.H., Nov. 26, 2011. Rick Santorum's Wife Breaks Down in Iowa Watch Video
Iowa Caucuses: Santorum Neck-and-Neck with Romney Watch Video
Santorum Gets Loudly Booed Watch Video
"If a couple chooses to do a burial or memorial service for a third-trimester loss, funeral homes will assist in a caring manner," she said.
Radio host Alan Colmes criticized the conservative candidate, who is Catholic, for "playing" with a dead baby. In an interview, Fox News reporter Rick Lowry responded, "You are mocking him."
"I think it is showing a certain unusual attitude toward taking a two-hour baby home who died to play with his other children," said Colmes, who later called the Santorums and apologized, according to his Twitter feed.
Of the nearly 6 million pregnancies each year in the United States, about 15 percent end in miscarriage, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
In about half the cases, a cause cannot be determined. Among the conditions usually linked to miscarriage are a woman's age, chromosomal abnormalities, structural problems, infections, autoimmune disorders or a condition that causes the blood to clot in the placenta, known as thrombophilia.
Technically, because it occurred after the 20th week in the second trimester, the Santorums' loss was a pre-term delivery, which is less common than a first trimester miscarriage.
Medical experts regard it as a fetus, because it was born before the third trimester, when it is viable. But medical experts say the loss is still emotionally devastating.
Couples have different ways of coping, and grief experts say that rituals are often important in healing.
"There are some who choose to move very quickly from the loss and others who find holding a third-trimester baby in the hospital very helpful," said Coons. "Some find it helpful having a ritual on an annual basis, making a contribution or saying a prayer or planting a tree or flowers. Others have a need for private ways to remember the loss."
Washington Post columnist Charles Lane described today his own experience nine years ago with his stillborn son, Jonathan, chastising critics who called the Santorum's response to Gabriel's death as "weird."
The baby's heart stopped in utero just prior to a scheduled Caesarian at 33 weeks.
"Next came hours of induced labor so that my wife could produce a lifeless child," Lane writes. "I cannot describe the anxiety, emotional pain and physical horror."
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I believe it happened...
I do not care. This is not something which would invalidate him as a candidate.
It is a strange story but I don't know what motivated him. I am tired of the media attempting to make big deals about things like this while ignoring the liberals oddities...
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I think for a child it could be a little scary seeing a lifeless body of what was to be your baby brother, but you know, people have different ways of handling the past and tragedies so I can't judge the man because of that, at least he values life unlike some politicians.
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I don't like the term "traitor" used against me. Richard Nixon and Kissinger send arms to Israel during the Yom Kippur War of 1973. If I said I did not like him because of Watergate or the Vietnam War escalation or the secret Cambodia bombings, etc. am I a traitor? Then put your money where your mouth is and delete my account.
You might have been too quick to ban here. sure we have had a lot of trolls but this post just reeks of ignorance. not everyone who signs up here will understand all kahanist concepts immediately, it takes time to sink in.
Take me for example, if you look at my early post, you would think im a troll (that's what some people thought actually), truth was I just didn't know much. heck the name which I signed up under, "kahanist liberal" did turn some heads.
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There's nothing wrong with what Santorum did. Many families choose to spend a little bit of time with their baby like this. There's nothing creepy or unsanitary about a recently dead person. This was the only chance that the family would ever get to hold the baby and say goodbye. I think if more people knew this was an option they might take it to spend a few hours at home with their baby before having to let them go.
I started crying a little bit earlier thinking about how cruel it is people are ridiculing Santorum and his wife for such a personal decision on how to handle their own family affairs.
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It's a candidate like santorum who does this vs. Obama who went to Jeremiah wright for 20 years.
It's like praising an animal abuser football player (vick) vs. A Jesus loving qb (tebow)
I mean come on. If santorum loses support over this, then I know the US will suffer more setbacks.
Right now its newt or santorum for me. It will most likely end up as romney
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We've already established that the real sicko here is the troll who started this thread, Homo, Jr.
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We've already established that the real sicko here is the troll who started this thread, Homo, Jr.
Yes he was a sicko. It's a good thing he was banned as his behavior in this thread was just terrible.
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What's even more sick is that the entire media and NWO is denouncing Santorum for this event that may or may not be true, but this same NWO and its propaganda ministry thinks that partial-birth mutilation is wonderful, righteous, and great and will make you out to practically be a racist (the one unpardonable sin in America) if you oppose it.
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We are living in evil times within an evil culture which is getting more evil by the day.
Evil is now cool; and Goodness is now considered evil and uncool.
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We are living in evil times within an evil culture which is getting more evil by the day.
Evil is now cool; and Goodness is now considered evil and uncool.
I'm starting to wonder if there ever will be a way to help bring the USA back. I have a hard time listening sometimes even to music I used to like because I realized a lot of it was leftist propaganda or had some kind of occult message buried in it. Same thing for movies. Anyone who points these things out is labeled as paranoid and a religious fanatic even when it's obvious for all to see.
What's even more sick is that the entire media and NWO is denouncing Santorum for this event that may or may not be true, but this same NWO and its propaganda ministry thinks that partial-birth mutilation is wonderful, righteous, and great and will make you out to practically be a racist (the one unpardonable sin in America) if you oppose it.
That's their all-purpose weapon. Racism in the general media doesn't mean hatred against other races, but it usually just means a white person somewhere is breathing. Of course anybody else who opposes anything a black says for whatever reason can also be stuck with that label.
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I may not think that Romney and/or Ron are necessarily behind this.
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What's even more sick is that the entire media and NWO is denouncing Santorum for this event that may or may not be true, but this same NWO and its propaganda ministry thinks that partial-birth mutilation is wonderful, righteous, and great and will make you out to practically be a racist (the one unpardonable sin in America) if you oppose it.
Yes, my feelings as well. I too had to go through a similar horror that santorum went through... not full-term... but similar... and it was DEEPLY depressing and I certainly wasn't the same after it happened.
I also got to see first-hand those who decided to murder their own unborn babies at the clinic, many in the mid and even late terms. They were genuinely evil... and seemed to have no remorse about their decision. (Not that having remorse somehow makes the act any less evil)
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You might have been too quick to ban here. sure we have had a lot of trolls but this post just reeks of ignorance. not everyone who signs up here will understand all kahanist concepts immediately, it takes time to sink in.
Take me for example, if you look at my early post, you would think im a troll (that's what some people thought actually), truth was I just didn't know much. heck the name which I signed up under, "kahanist liberal" did turn some heads.
Meerkat, you've always been respectful here. Your posts have always been intelligent. Don't compare yourself to Circus Freak.
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Meerkat, Circus Freak is a longtime troll of JTF (going back to when the forum was first created, over five years ago) whose original username is "Chaim, Jr." Look him up.
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Meerkat, you've always been respectful here. Your posts have always been intelligent. Don't compare yourself to Circus Freak.
THe fact that in one of his first points, he said told Chaim that its his fault that he was banned for Israel isnt about ignorance. He is a troll who is probably on his 100th re-incarnation on this forum.
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Meerkat, Circus Freak is a longtime troll of JTF (going back to when the forum was first created, over five years ago) whose original username is "Chaim, Jr." Look him up.
Is Chaim Jr anti-catholic? I barely remember him. There is a troll who keeps coming on this forum who is fixated on Catholic hatred.
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If Rick Santorum was REALLY for the State of Israel the way that we are, then I wouldn't care if he brought his son home on a plate and ate him.
Okay, that was too gross... sorry... but I did want to make my point... and I think I just did.
NEVER AGAIN!
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If Rick Santorum was REALLY for the State of Israel the way that we are, then I wouldn't care if he brought his son home on a plate and ate him.
Okay, that was too gross... sorry... but I did want to make my point... and I think I just did.
NEVER AGAIN!
Well I found the new diet secret, appetite suppression through reading IsraelForever's posts, you'll never want to eat again! :::D