JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: White Israelite on February 16, 2012, 11:28:59 AM
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I know the Japanese are an "advanced society" in terms of technology, but when I see videos like this, you start to wonder how sick and twisted you have to be to eat an animal alive and laugh about it. I guess some things never change!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=n4p5Hmg8OW4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqphVlp2VJI&feature=related
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I don't think it's good to eat an animal while they're alive like that. I think it's more humane to eat dead animals.
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...And my nephews invite me for sushi at a japanese restaurant? No thx
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Eating too much Sushi can be dangerous. My cousin ate at an expensive well-known Sushi Restaurant, and he still managed to get food poisoning. But eating it now and then in moderation from reliable restaurants is ok.
Unless I'm on survivor trying to win an eating challenge, I wouldnt even consider eating something live.
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It's dead. The title of the video is misleading. The head has clearly been cut off. It is the same animal that is swimming in the first scene. Do you see how much of it is missing once it is on the plate? The muscles are just reacting to the salt. The animal is very dead.
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I think only a small minority of Japanese eat things like this, but althrough it is disgusting.
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It's dead. The title of the video is misleading. The head has clearly been cut off. It is the same animal that is swimming in the first scene. Do you see how much of it is missing once it is on the plate? The muscles are just reacting to the salt. The animal is very dead.
It's still pretty gross though
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvaZrUAZ_9k&feature=related
Look how they cut it, perhaps its not completely dead since they just cut the skin and leave the rest intact.
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I don't think it's good to eat an animal while they're alive like that. I think it's more humane to eat dead animals.
Noachide Law prohibits eating from a living animal. I am surprised that there are some here who would even consider such a thing...
http://noahidenations.com/index.php/about-us/the-seven-laws/88888976-flesh-of-a-living-animal/143-noahide-laws-flesh-of-a-living-animal
Eating the flesh of a living animal is forbidden.
This teaches us to be sensitive to cruelty to animals. (This was commanded to Noah for the first time along with the permission of eating meat. The negative laws were enforced at the Garden of Eden.) This commandment (the seventh) was given to Noah in Genesis 9:4-5. ("Nevertheless, you may not eat flesh with its life, which is its blood.")
(Note that Adam and Eve were not given permission to eat animals, so all humans were constrained to be vegetarians until after the Flood. G-d permitted the eating of meat for the first time to Noah and his family after they left the Ark, which is why G-d at that time added the seventh commandment, which prohibits the eating of flesh removed from a living animal.)
Eating flesh from a living animal encompasses:
against eating a limb severed from a living animal, beast, or fowl; and
against eating the flesh of any animal which was torn by a wild beast, which in part, prohibits the eating of such flesh as was torn off an animal while it was still alive.
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Some animal bodies can still move after brain death. (So I hear)
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It's dead.
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/2011/07/28/instant-zombie-just-add-salt/
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Oh Yeh, that thing is dead.
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Noachide Law prohibits eating from a living animal. I am surprised that there are some here who would even consider such a thing...
I wouldn't. I don't think there's any good reason to eat an animal that's still alive unless you're starving to death and have to eat bugs to survive.
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I LOVE sushi. But with that being said, I think eating any animal while it's still alive is disgusting.
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This is going to sound really weird. What if the heart has stopped and it's removed from the body , but it is still warm and it has blood in it. Is that against the law?
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This is going to sound really weird. What if the heart has stopped and it's removed from the body , but it is still warm and it has blood in it. Is that against the law?
For a Jew it is... A Jew is commanded to eat only animals which have been slaughtered by ritual slaughter/Schitah. I was discussing this with my step-father last week when he was discussing hunting. A Jew is not supposed to eat an animal unless it is Kosher and it has been slaughtered according to Jewish law. Thus an animal killed when hunting is considered Treif...
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/222240/jewish/What-is-Shechita.htm
What is Shechita?
Shechita is the Jewish religious and humane method of slaughtering permitted animals and poultry for food. It is the only method of producing kosher meat and poultry allowed by Jewish law. It is a most humane method as explained below.
There is no ritual involved in shechita. It is a cardinal tenet of the Jewish faith that the laws of shechita were divinely given to Moses at Mount Sinai (Deuteronomy XII:21); the rules governing shechita are codified and defined and are as binding and valued today as ever and they ensure a swift and painless dispatch of the animal. Infringing the laws of shechita renders the meat unconditionally forbidden as food to Jews. The time hallowed practice of shechita, marked as it is by compassion and consideration for the welfare of the animal, has been a central pillar in the sustaining of Jewish life for millennia.
Shechita is performed by a highly trained shochet. The procedure consists of a rapid and expert transverse incision with an instrument of surgical sharpness (a chalaf), which severs the major structures and vessels at the neck. This causes an instant drop in blood pressure in the brain and immediately results in the irreversible cessation of consciousness. Thus, shechita renders the animal insensible to pain, dispatches and exsanguinates in a swift action, and fulfils all the requirements of humaneness and compassion.
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http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/kashrut.htm
Kosher slaughtering
The mammals and birds that may be eaten must be slaughtered in accordance with Jewish law; "as I have commanded thee" (Deuteronomy 12,21) is according to the Oral Torah on kosher slaughter given to Moses at Sinai. We may not eat animals that died of natural causes (Deuteronomy 14,21) or that were killed by other animals (Exodus 22,30). In addition, the animal must have no disease or flaws in the organs at the time of slaughter. These restrictions do not apply to fish, which may be merely "gathered" (Numbers 11,22).
Ritual slaughter is known as shechitah, and the person who performs the slaughter is called a shochet, both from the Hebrew root Shin-Chet-Tet, meaning to slaughter. The method of slaughter is a quick, deep stroke across the throat with a perfectly sharp blade with no nicks or unevenness. This method is painless, causes unconsciousness within seconds, and is widely recognized as the most humane method of slaughter possible.
Another advantage of shechitah is that ensures rapid, complete draining of the blood, which is also necessary to render the meat kosher.
The shochet is not simply a butcher; he must be a pious man, well-trained in Jewish law, particularly as it relates to kashrut. In smaller, more remote communities, the rabbi and the shochet were often the same person.
On the topic of Hunting:
http://www.shemayisrael.com/publicat/hazon/tzedaka/aversion.htm
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I don't think it is good to show this, but here are the consequences of eating live sushi:
ATTENTION: Mentally ill and pregnant people should not see it.
http://i057.radikal.ru/0912/ab/5bb4fc7b617e.jpg
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I have always hunted for food not sport. And with the utmost respect for the soul of the animal. I also believe you should not kill an animal if you're not going to use it! In some way!
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I don't think it is good to show this, but here are the consequences of eating live sushi:
ATTENTION: Mentally ill and pregnant people should not see it.
http://i057.radikal.ru/0912/ab/5bb4fc7b617e.jpg
I dont get it. Care to offer an explanation with the sensational photo?
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I have always hunted for food not sport. And with the utmost respect for the soul of the animal. I also believe you should not kill an animal if you're not going to use it! In some way!
Noachides are permitted to hunt and eat what they kill. My Jewish friend who is a SWAT team member on a local force goes hunting {despite the warnings from our Rabbis} and he gives the meat to non-Jews to eat.
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It's dead.
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/2011/07/28/instant-zombie-just-add-salt/
Is that where all the salt went when they created all those Obama voters in 2008?
BTW that zombie pus is still gross....
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Is that where all the salt went when they created all those Obama voters in 2008?
BTW that zombie pus is still gross....
Not as scary as Ozombies...
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Not as scary as Ozombies...
Stop Obama! Hide the salt!
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I don't think it is good to show this, but here are the consequences of eating live sushi:
ATTENTION: Mentally ill and pregnant people should not see it.
http://i057.radikal.ru/0912/ab/5bb4fc7b617e.jpg
Did that person have tapeworms in their brain or something else?
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is hunting permitted in survival situations? How did the ancient Israelites gather their food previously before herding?
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is hunting permitted in survival situations? How did the ancient Israelites gather their food previously before herding?
Thank you for asking that WI! I am also curious about that.
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Despite what Muman said, as far as I know it is technically "kosher" to eat live fish, as long as the fish itself is kosher (which rules out squid of course). The reason is fish don't need to be slaughtered.
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Despite what Muman said, as far as I know it is technically "kosher" to eat live fish, as long as the fish itself is kosher (which rules out squid of course). The reason is fish don't need to be slaughtered.
This is true... But there is the question of cruelty to animals. I don't know the answer to this one..
Regarding hunting for survival... I don't know the 'official' answer but my guess is based on Pikuah Nefesh {Saving Life} that in a condition of survival it is OK to eat whatever is available to stay alive.
This site discusses the issues raised in the Talmud concerning eating a limb of a living bird..
http://www.dafyomi.co.il/chulin/insites/ch-dt-102.htm
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Here is a story from the Holocaust where Jews had to eat non-Kosher food to survive..
http://www.kehillastorah.org/kedoshim5760.html
A group of young men who had survived the holocaust met the renown Vizhnitzer Rebbe. The Rebbe went out of his way to comfort and console the countless Jews who had lost their families, friends, and possessions as the result of the horrible war.
With great sincerity and heartache, the Jewish men told the Rebbe that they felt guilty for having eaten non-kosher food throughout their time in the camps. "Perhaps we should have been stronger," said one of the young men with remorse. "Perhaps we could have survived without eating the food from their kitchens. What should we do to repent for our sins?"
The Rebbe was touched by their sincerity. He was quiet for a few moments and then he began to cry. He took the hand of one of the young men and clasped it warmly in his own hands. "The only reason you and your friends ate the treif (non-kosher) food was so that you should survive, is that not so?" The young man nodded yes.
"Surely the reason you felt you had to eat the food was because of the commandment "And you shall live by them [the commandments] (Leviticus 18:5)," said the Rebbe. Again the young man nodded. (The Torah commands us to violate all but three types of mitzvahs in order to save a life.)
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This Rabbi from Yeshiva Ohr Somayach mentions that Jews don't eat live fish... He doesn't give a source though...
http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/243/Q2/
Here too we find mention that a Jew should not eat live fish:
http://www.shemayisrael.com/parsha/fleisher/archives/behaloscha59.htm
While on the subject of fish ......
Shulchan Oruch Y.D. 13:1 rules that fish require no ritual slaughtering, shechitoh. This is derived from our verse which says that if bnei Yisroel were to receive meat it would require shechitoh, "Hatzone u'vokor YISHOCHEIT lo'hem." However, by fish it says "yei'o'seif," that they only require gathering.
There is an opinion that fish require shechitoh. It is to be found in M.R. Breishis 7:2. "Yaakov of the village of Gvuroi ruled in Tzur that fish require ritual slaughter." I have no idea where the place of the shechitoh would be or if it would require the cutting of one or two "simanim."
The Kesef Mishneh brings the opinion of Rav Saadyia Gaon that fish which die on their own may not be eaten. The Bach's text of the words of R.S.G. is that live fish may not be eaten. The Rambam in hilchos shechitoh 1:3 says that fish which die in the water may be eaten. He also permits eating fish alive. The Hagohas Beis Yosef on Knesses Hag'doloh Y.D. #13 questions if the Rambam would permit consuming fish that died on land. It would seem obvious that if fish were caught in a body of water and left to die on land, that this is considered not dying by themselves, but rather being killed by a person. This is literally "yei'o'seif."
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This is true... But there is the question of cruelty to animals. I don't know the answer to this one..
Regarding hunting for survival... I don't know the 'official' answer but my guess is based on Pikuah Nefesh {Saving Life} that in a condition of survival it is OK to eat whatever is available to stay alive.
This site discusses the issues raised in the Talmud concerning eating a limb of a living bird..
http://www.dafyomi.co.il/chulin/insites/ch-dt-102.htm
Technically, fish don't need to be slaughtered the way a cow gets slaughtered. They just suffocate when they're out of the water for too long. Otherwise, I've never heard anything about it being OK for Jews to eat fish that are still alive (even if they're kosher types of fish). Nor have I ever heard of any Jews eating fish that are still alive. The idea of eating any animal that's still alive is repugnant to me.
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As for eating a fish that's still alive, I don't understand how it would NOT fall under the prohibition of eating the flesh of a live animal. I mean, the fish isn't even dead yet, and it's being eaten. So what is there not to understand?
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As for eating a fish that's still alive, I don't understand how it would NOT fall under the prohibition of eating the flesh of a live animal. I mean, the fish isn't even dead yet, and it's being eaten. So what is there not to understand?
That is the first thing I said... It is a violation of Noachide laws.. But apparently Rambam {In the piece I quoted above} allowed eating live fish... I don't know the source of that...
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I think the humane-ness would matter depending on the size of the fish. If you can chew it up and swallow it in one bite then that fish will be killed rather quickly, but if you have to take bites out of the fish, then it's definitely inhumane.
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I think eating a living fish is very un-Jewish. Like Muman said there is still the matter of cruelty to an animal. Although, the any way that gets the fish from the pond to your plate is not going to be very pleasant for the fish.
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After viewing this topic, I may never eat sushi again.
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I think eating a living fish is very un-Jewish. Like Muman said there is still the matter of cruelty to an animal. Although, the any way that gets the fish from the pond to your plate is not going to be very pleasant for the fish.
It's not something most humans would partake in Jew or Gentile... I was never a great fan of the "Japs" Raw fish is bad enough... Live is taking it to the another level. :yuck:
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Obviously eating something that is still alive is just barbaric. But I don't understand why Jews often feel like hunting is a sin for Gentiles, too.
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Obviously eating something that is still alive is just barbaric. But I don't understand why Jews often feel like hunting is a sin for Gentiles, too.
I fill that is a sin as a vegan not because I am Jewish. I think the reason is quite obvious- it is often a rather painful and slow death, not that being mauled by a bear or hunted down by a pack of wolves is any better, but still I think humans should show more mercy if they have to kill an animal.
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I fill that is a sin as a vegan not because I am Jewish. I think the reason is quite obvious- it is often a rather painful and slow death, not that being mauled by a bear or hunted down by a pack of wolves is any better, but still I think humans should show more mercy if they have to kill an animal.
An arrow through the heart and lungs is a rather quick death with massive blood loss.
Have you always been a vegan? What do you eat for protein?
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An arrow through the heart and lungs is a rather quick death with massive blood loss.
Have you always been a vegan? What do you eat for protein?
But not every shot is a perfect hit. I think using arrows to kill big animals like moose and elk is especially cruel.
I've been vegan for 11 years. I get all the nutrients I need from vegan food except perhaps B12 for which I take a pill.
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What do you expect the Japanese and the Chinese are savages, people think they are so intelligent but when push comes to shove they are the same animals as they were hundreds of years ago.
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But not every shot is a perfect hit. I think using arrows to kill big animals like moose and elk is especially cruel.
I've been vegan for 11 years. I get all the nutrients I need from vegan food except perhaps B12 for which I take a pill.
Extra beans for you!
I like red beans. It fills me up. I like to eat them while they're still alive though. :P
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Be very careful about who you call a barbarian, jbeige.
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Be very careful about who you call a barbarian, jbeige.
What do you call people that hang dogs by their necks so they die slowly so the meat is tender and deep fry them in hot oil while they are still alive? That's what the Chinese do.
What do you call people that slaughter dolphins just so they don't get caught in their nets and who still chop up whales while they are still alive and also cut off just the fins of the sharks and toss the shark back into the water that's what the Japanese do so I don't think anyone should be careful about who they call barbarian.
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Yes the WN is always right. All Asian people are scum of the earth.
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:-X
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I do think there's something wrong with the culture of people who think nothing of cruelty to animals. Unfortunately the majority of the world is still like that. Most of the world doesn't even treat fellow human beings with dignity though either.
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JBeige,
Lately you're comments are off the charts. I remember liking your comments and thinking they demonstrated thoughtfulness and intelligence, but lately you are all reaction and anger. I dont know what is with the tone and content of almost all of your comments lately.
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I think he's angry because he got an F instead of a D in school because those pesky Asian kids keep raising the curve.
BTW I don't bother killing dogs before eating them. Real men eat dogs alive.
Also, I hope he's not Jewish. Wouldn't want anyone to use him to say: "not all of them are geniuses".
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I think he's angry because he got an F instead of a D in school because those pesky Asian kids keep raising the curve.
You're probably right on that one!
BTW I don't bother killing dogs before eating them. Real men eat dogs alive.
Also, I hope he's not Jewish. Wouldn't want anyone to use him to say: "not all of them are geniuses".
Great post. :::D
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You're probably right on that one!
Great post. :::D
Yes, it took me long enough to stop ignoring this guy.
I've never met anyone who knew someone who knew someone else who may have had dog or cat.
Lets hope he's just having a bad month or so.
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Yes, it took me long enough to stop ignoring this guy.
I've never met anyone who knew someone who knew someone else who may have had dog or cat.
Lets hope he's just having a bad month or so.
People of all races abuse animals it's not like he can point to one group like that as if nobody else does anything bad to animals. As much as I do care for animal welfare (and I do) I'm personally more concerned about the abortion issue, which ironically jbeige thinks is just ok. Eating dogs=bad to him but killing babies, that's ok.