JTF.ORG Forum
Torah and Jewish Idea => Torah and Jewish Idea => Topic started by: edu on May 22, 2012, 01:36:39 PM
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It is not just some elements of Chabad that still believe their leader is Mashiach even though he is dead. In my neighborhood, some individual or individuals have been putting up posters and stickers claiming the dead leader of The Na, Nach, Nachman sect of Breslov is Mashiach!
I am very far from being a member of either movements. In fact I, like the Chatam Sofer, think that most of the Zohar is not from Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai which knocks down the foundations of the various chassidic movements. Nevertheless, I do expect and demand that individuals who are part of the more respectable branches of Chabad and Breslov to come out and denounce, those individuals who are turning dead Chassidic leaders into the Mashiach.
Being quiet is not enough in my opinion to separate yourselves from these "messianists".
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Actually for a time their was strong Messianism of Breslovers. Then it died down. This is the first time I'm hearing of a Breslover who believes that their Rebbe (Nachman) was the Messiah.
Oooh wait I just re read your post, are you saying that they now believe the old guy who made the Na Nach Nachman slogan is believed to be the Moshiah now?
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To answer Tag-MehirTzedek
Oooh wait I just re read your post, are you saying that they now believe the old guy who made the Na Nach Nachman slogan is believed to be the Moshiah now?
Yes That's right. The Old guy that made the Na Nach Nachman slogan is their Mashiach.
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To answer Tag-MehirTzedek
OYes That's right. The Old guy that made the Na Nach Nachman slogan is their Mashiach.
Do you mean they think rabbi Yisroel Ber Odesser is the messiah ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yisroel_Ber_Odesser
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I blieve he went insane in his old age. Its truly sad that he made a statement and now apparently some are believing him to be the Messiah.
"A few days before his death at the age of 106, Rabbi Odesser recorded these words on tape:[1]
All the world, and the whole government, do not know who I am! Behold, I inform them who I am! I am Na Nach Nachma Nachman Meuman!
Who is the Rebbe of the whole world? Rebbe Na Nach Nachma Nachman Meuman!
I am Na Nach Nachma Nachman Meuman! "
This probably has to do with the whole "Gilgul" craze as well. I know many Breslover teachings (especially Likutei Moharan) some are great others problematic including reincarnation and the Rebbe being a Behinat of someone else (usually Moshe-Moshiah) perhaps this also is similar to Chabad messianism as well. Its a shame, we need to get back to down to earth true Torah Judaism if we are wanting to see real progress and have Jewish society be as it supposed to be.
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I have not heard of this. And I reject it for the same reason everyone else.
Rabbi Nachman was a great Rabbi and his wisdom has kept many Jews faithful. But it is wrong to suggest that a dead man is Moshiach when it is obvious that today we do not see the messianic signs.
I will investigate this.
Also realize that Breslov is not a singular sect. There are different branches of Breslov and various Rabbis {such as Rabbi Shalom Arush and R. Lazer Brody} lead more sensible branches of Breslov.
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I have not heard of this. And I reject it for the same reason everyone else.
Rabbi Nachman was a great Rabbi and his wisdom has kept many Jews faithful. But it is wrong to suggest that a dead man is Moshiach when it is obvious that today we do not see the messianic signs.
I will investigate this.
I think their claim is not about rabbi Nachman but about the late rabbi Odesser. See discussion above.
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I think their claim is not about rabbi Nachman but about the late rabbi Odesser. See discussion above.
Yes I understand that. My point was to reinforce that I believe that Breslov Chassidus has done a lot of good, and a lot of people respect Rabbi Nachmans teachings. I know that Rabbi Nachman was not, nor do most people even Breslovers, believe he was Moshiach.
I am not able to find anything on the internet at this time which suggests there is an organized attempt to recognize this Rabbi Odesser as Moshiach. The Breslover branch referred to as 'NaNaNach' does not speak for the entire Breslev community.
From the wikipage:
Odesser's publicizing of Na Nach Nachma Nachman Meuman was rejected by mainstream Breslovers for many decades. Around 1984, when he was 95 years old and living in an old age home in Ra'anana, Israel,[1] a group of baalei teshuva (returnees to the Jewish faith) discovered Odesser and were attracted to his teachings. He eventually became their spiritual leader. The name and song, Na Nach Nachma Nachman Meuman was adopted by this subgroup of Breslover Hasidim and has appeared on billboards, bumper stickers, and knitted yarmulkes, as well as in musical compositions of this group (colloquially known as the Na Nachs) ever since.