JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ephraim Ben Noach on June 10, 2012, 12:43:13 AM
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If this upsets anyone? I will remove it right away, but this is one side of my ancestry. I just think Americans should think about this!
PURITANS WERE MORE JEWISH THAN PROTESTANTS
Hugh Fogelman
A Puritan is a name often misunderstood. During the 17th century English Civil War (known as the Puritan Revolution), the Puritans were Protestant fundamentalists who wished to “purify” the Church of England. Some of the Puritans, known as Separatists “separated,” forming their own church. The Puritans felt that Parliament, and not the King, should have the final say and that the moral guidance for all legal decision should come from the Jewish Bible which they considered to be the highest authority in all matters.
The Puritans were obsessed with the Bible and came to identify their political struggle against England with that of the ancient Hebrews against Pharaoh or the King of Babylon. Because they identified so strongly with ancient Israel, they chose to identify with the Tanach (Hebrew Bible). (World Book Encyclopedia & Encyclopaedia Judaica) In 1620, the “Separatists” sailed for America on the Mayflower. The Separatists/Puritans who settled at Plymouth Colony called themselves “Pilgrims” because of their wanderings in search of religious freedom. The Puritan culture of New England was marked from the outset by a deep association with Jewish themes. No Christian community in history identified more with the Israelites of the Bible than did the first generations of settlers of the Massachusetts Bay Colony, who believed their own lives to be a literal reenactment of the biblical drama of the chosen people―they were the children of Israel and the ordinances of G-d’s Holy covenant by which they lived were His divine law. Since they viewed themselves as the persecuted victims of the sinful Christian establishment of the Old World (England), the Puritans also had a natural sympathy for the Jews of their own time. The Protestant Puritan leader Cotton Mather repeatedly referred to the Jews in his prayer for their conversion as G-d's "Beloved People.” The New Israel―The influence of the Hebrew Bible marks every step of the Puritan exodus to their Zion in the wilderness of the New World. The Jewish Bible formed their minds and dominated their characters; its conceptions were their conceptions.
The "Separatists,” ready to depart from England for the new land, fasted in a manner reminiscent of the fasts held by the Israelites before any new undertaking. Their Pastor Robertson read I Samuel 23:3-4 and then they sailed to the New Canaan in America. The biblical basis for this procedure is manifest; just as the ancient Israelites prayed and fasted before undertaking an uncertain venture, so did the Puritans. And once settled in America, the custom was retained and frequently renewed. Early in 1620, the very year of the Pilgrims' landing in the new Plymouth, a solemn day of prayer was observed; Pastor Robinson spoke, again quoting from I Samuel 23:3-4, by which he strove to ease their fears and strengthen their determination. This custom, combining prayer and fasting with biblical readings on momentous occasions, persisted and as late as 1800, President Adams likewise called a national day of prayer and fasting.
The next major group of Puritan settlers to arrive in New England (1630) was headed by John Winthrop (1588–1649) and founded the Massachusetts Bay Colony. They were ruled initially by an elite of leading Puritan families - since the colony itself was based on biblical principles and was moved by the Puritan spirit of the Scriptures—was the Holy Jewish Bible. The Puritans wholeheartedly believed that it was their special mission to establish in America a society precisely modeled on the precepts of Sacred Jewish Scriptures. The Massachusetts Bay Colony was at the very least a state inspired by and thoroughly devoted to the Jewish Bible. "If we keep this covenant," Governor John Winthrop assured his people, "we shall find that the G-d of Israel is among us, but if we deal falsely with our G-d... we be consumed out of the good land whither we are going." The Jewish covenant concept was thus the bedrock of all Puritan religious communities.
When the Puritans, a bitterly persecuted people by the English government, reached America, they drew clear analogies between themselves and the Jews of antiquity. They constantly referred to the Hebrew Bible, renewing the similarities to their own experience, so that its philosophy and spirit came to permeate their lives. Also, like Israel of old, the Pilgrims (and their fellow Puritan counterparts) regarded them-selves as the elect of G-d, so that throughout the Revolutionary War they visualized their enemies as Amalekites or Philistines. And in a manner reminiscent of the traditional Jewish Passover night, the Pilgrims too memorialized their passage into freedom. In searching the Scriptures for readings pertinent to their own situation, the Puritans readily discovered the general similarity between themselves and the ancient Israelites, and proceeded to draw from it some very particular conclusions. They firmly believed that the Hebrew prophets were speaking to them as directly as they had spoken to the Israelites. Thus the history of the Israelites as related in the Bible served, according to the ministers of the day, as a mirror in which the Puritans could see their own activities reflected. Still considering themselves as Christian Protestants, the Puritans related to the Israelites and their Jewish belief for their fundamental “grounding.
In this respect they differed sharply from the majority of traditional Christian theologies. To the Puritans the primary lesson of the Tanach was that a nation as well as an individual could enter into a covenant with G-d. The Puritans reasoned in America the concept of the covenant would assume new dimensions. Once they reached the colonies a new factor entered into the matter of the covenant. In this New Israel the Puritans established a completely new society based solely upon the Jewish concept of a covenant between G-d and man. Thus the Puritans made certain of the biblical system they wished to establish in the New World. When, during a convention of Puritan ministers at Boston on May 26, 1698, they confirmed the belief that "under the Tanach, the Church was constituted by a covenant." Because of this concept, the Puritan Church was not ruled by a formal and rigid papal hierarchy but derived its direction immediately from G-d, ruled by His word as revealed in the sacred Jewish Scriptures.
The Bible was in all circumstances and for all occasions the ultimate source of knowledge and precedent. The Jewish Bible was the inspired word of G-d which was for them a matter of absolute conviction, and, hence, indisputable. Accordingly, failure to abide by the strict reading and literal interpretation of the Scriptures was severely punished: If any "Christian, so called,” spoke contemptuously of the Scripture, or the holy penmen thereof, they were to be punished by fine or whipping. Laws were also passed punishing those who violated the Sabbath. Laws and regulations adopted by them, which, at the present day, are stigmatized as singularities, were in many instances, the legitimate fruits of their strict adherence to the teaching of the Bible.
Most of the official acts of the colonies were determined by the Jewish Scriptures. One of these, the Connecticut Code of 1650, adopted a near Mosaic form of government. Its fifteen Capital Laws, Pentateuchal citations and language are later found in the Massachusetts Code of 1660. The guide of early Connecticut was Thomas Hooker, a man deeply touched by the Bible and its spirit, and called by some "the founder of American democracy." He wrote in a letter (1648) to Governor Winthrop of Massachusetts on the subject of liberty under the law: Sit liber judex, as the lawyers speak. Deuteronomy 17:10–11: "Thou shalt observe to do according to all that they inform, according to the sentence of the law. Thou shalt seek that Law at his mouth: not ask what his discretion allows, but what the Law requires." The Puritans' incorporated the Mosaic code and injunctions from the Tanach into their own legal framework. It is worthy of note that fully half of the statutes in the Code of 1655 for the New Haven colony contained references to or citations from the Tanach, while only three percent referred to the New Testament.
Accordingly, the first settlers in New England called themselves "Christian Israel." Comparison of the Puritan leaders with the great leaders of ancient Israel—especially Moses and Joshua—were common. So the names of Daniel, Jonathan, Esther, Enoch, Ezra, Rachel and a host of others were in constant use among the Puritans. Interestingly enough, there was a conspicuous absence of the names of Christian saints. Names of cities, towns and settlements likewise derived from Hebraic sources. This widespread use of biblical names, however, was not confined to the naming of offspring, cities and towns - names of many biblical heights were eventually bestowed upon the great mountains of America. Mount Carmel and Mount Horeb, home of the Prophets, were popular names, as was Mount Nebo, the final resting place of Moses. Names like Mount Ephraim, Mount Gilead, Mount Hermon, Mount Moriah, Mount Pisgah, were all popular as well. Some mountains in the New World were even called Mt. Sinai, Mount Zion and Mount Olive. .
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Puritan obsession with the Bible led them to try and incorporate many aspects of the Jewish commandments into their lifestyle based on their literal interpretation of Hebraic laws. One of the most significant was the concept of the Sabbath as a day of rest and meditation. Puritan Sabbath observance began at sundown and no work of any kind, even household chores, was allowed for the next 24-hours. Sabbath observance was strictly monitored by local officials.
In summary: The majority of the earliest settlers were Puritans from England. Unlike their cousins back home, these American Puritans strongly identified with both the historical traditions and customs of the ancient Hebrews of the Tanach. They viewed their emigration from England as a virtual re-enactment of the Jewish exodus from Egypt: England was Egypt, the English king was Pharaoh, the Atlantic Ocean their Red Sea, America was the Land of Israel, and the Indians were the ancient Canaanites. They were the new Israelites, entering into a new covenant with G-d in a new Promised Land.
These settlers found themselves in a New World which had no existing laws or govern-ment. Their first task, therefore, was to create a legal framework for their communities and the first place they looked for guidance was the Hebrew Bible. Thus most of the early legislation of the colonies of New England was determined by Scripture. The most extreme example was the Connecticut Code of 1650 which created a form of fundamentalist government based almost entirely on Jewish law using numerous citations from the Bible. The same held true for the code of New Haven and many other colonies.
At the first assembly of New Haven in 1639, John Davenport clearly declared the primacy of the Bible as the legal and moral foundation of the colony: "Scriptures do hold forth a perfect rule for the direction and government of all men in all duties which they are to perform to G-d and men as well as in the government of families and commonwealth as in matters of the church ... the Word of G-d shall be the only rule to be attended unto in organizing the affairs of government in this plantation."
Thanksgiving which has evolved into a national day of feasting and celebration was initially conceived by the Pilgrims, in 1621, as a day similar to the Jewish Sukkot, the holiday of joy as told in Leviticus 23:40. It was for the Puritans and is for the Jews a day of great joy because it was the time of the year for the gathering grain and fruits from their fields into their homes. A time for introspection and prayer, because it was G-d, not man who allowed the first harvest.
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How can chritians be more Jewish than other chritians?
Anyways, I'm always interested in history, if anything the Puritans were more pious than their contemporaries. You should be very proud to know your ancestors built this country! :-)
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They used the Tanach.(the Torah). My point is the Puritans had a covenant with the G-d of Israel and that is the reason this country exists!
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All Gentiles have a special mission from Hashem, different from the mission He gave Jews. And we know the Gentile covenant is through Noach.
Hashem created the world with a plan and He allowed for the creation of the US as part of His plan. This is slightly different than what you say that puritans had a covenant with Hashem. But it's just from my understanding.
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They were perhaps more Christians then other Christians. But make no mistake of calling them Jews. They believed in Jesus and worshiped the trinity.
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In many respects the Puritans were more Jewish then other Christians.They only celebrated Jewish Holidays if you even thought about Christmas or Easter they would surely whip you.
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I definitely do not like the title of this article. Jews are Jews! Christians are Christian! The reformers of Christianity were trying to get us back to the true teachings of Jesus. Did they get it all right? No! As individuals can we try to live the way of Jesus? Yes! Jesus studied Torah, observed the holidays, and the Sabbath. The Puritans believed in Jesus, and tried to live the life of Jesus and the Torah the way they understood it! And they were blessed. Everyone knows I’m Noachide. So take what I say with a grain of salt. Do I care about Christians and Jews? Heck yeah! How great would the world be if we all studied Torah?
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You'll probably hate me for saying this, but half the new colony at Plymouth died within the first year. I know they had great faith, but they didn't have a lot of sense. These are also my ancestors, and I believe they should have listened to and followed the Indian ways of building small shelters instead of large, hard to heat houses. What they should have done is stay on the boat until spring, and they should have fished for food. There was a well spring of food available under their ship.
Am I bad?
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You'll probably hate me for saying this, but half the new colony at Plymouth died within the first year. I know they had great faith, but they didn't have a lot of sense. These are also my ancestors, and I believe they should have listened to and followed the Indian ways of building small shelters instead of large, hard to heat houses. What they should have done is stay on the boat until spring, and they should have fished for food. There was a well spring of food available under their ship.
Am I bad?
No why?
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They were in a whole new environment so they were bound to make mistakes. At least not all of them died and some of them made it. The Indians were more familiar with the area and how best to survive there because they had lived there longer.
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Plus, the wikipedia article for Plymouth Colony does not say that starvation was one of the reasons for the deaths. Also many did stay on board the ship. In fact, the article says that diseases like scurvy and conditions on board the ship were main causes of the deaths during the winter.
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True enough, Reormy. A heck of a way to live, in the hold of a ship.
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You'll probably hate me for saying this, but half the new colony at Plymouth died within the first year. I know they had great faith, but they didn't have a lot of sense. These are also my ancestors, and I believe they should have listened to and followed the Indian ways of building small shelters instead of large, hard to heat houses. What they should have done is stay on the boat until spring, and they should have fished for food. There was a well spring of food available under their ship.
Am I bad?
No your not bad, and I do not hate you! We are Americans! We can say what ever we want unless you’re a muzzy and then you need to leave our country! Yes, many Puritans did die, but in the end the result was good! Sometimes we die and suffer for a better ending.
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All Gentiles have a special mission from Hashem, different from the mission He gave Jews. And we know the Gentile covenant is through Noach.
Hashem created the world with a plan and He allowed for the creation of the US as part of His plan. This is slightly different than what you say that puritans had a covenant with Hashem. But it's just from my understanding.
The covenant between Jews and Puritans is totally different! Do not think I'm saying they are the same! I am not. :-)
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Ephrein, you are saying there are godly people everywhere.
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What? What are you talking about?
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When I hear people whine about "oh there was a peanut in the same facility that made my chocolate bar, waaaaah" I want to remind them how hard their ancestor's life really was.
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The Puritans of back then are the Evangelicals of today.
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The covenant between Jews and Puritans is totally different! Do not think I'm saying they are the same! I am not. :-)
What covenant?
There was a covenant between G-d and Noah (for the nations) and between G-d and all Jews.
Are you suggesting there is another covenant that is not biblical that happened in t he 1600's according to you?
More likely, Hashem planned for the US to be founded and used the Puritans are a means... considering the importance the US would play in the re-established Israel. The gentile nations are dependent on G-d's will.
I know this may not be a popular thing for me to say but otherwise, please state how and when this puritan covenant happened.
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Cromwell was a great man, he let the Jews back into England. John Milton was a great playwrite, ie, Samson Agonistes ! :)
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What covenant?
There was a covenant between G-d and Noah (for the nations) and between G-d and all Jews.
Are you suggesting there is another covenant that is not biblical that happened in t he 1600's according to you?
More likely, Hashem planned for the US to be founded and used the Puritans are a means... considering the importance the US would play in the re-established Israel. The gentile nations are dependent on G-d's will.
I know this may not be a popular thing for me to say but otherwise, please state how and when this puritan covenant happened.
You keep believing what you believe!!!!
Ok, I'm going to say what THEY believed... They believed they were descendants of Abraham, so the covenant of Abraham. They also believed you made a covenant (a contract) with G-d, by studying, living, and enforcing the laws of the Hebrew Bible.(Tanach)
You might like this? I have edited it, because it was written by a Christian, but it is still good, and we all know there were Jewish patriots too. One of the greatest was Haym Solomon.
CHAPTER III
THE WAR OF INDEPENDENCE
"G-d Works in Mysterious Ways"
The Great Awakening
The revival of our national faith, called "The Great Awakening," was triggered by the anger aroused in the colonists because of the heavy taxation levied on them by the British Parliament. They called it "taxation without representation." The Molasses Act of 1764, followed by the Stamp Act and other taxations, were deeply resented.
Because many settlers wanted to seek new farmland, the British Ordinance of 1763 restricting Western settlement also aroused great indignation.
By 1775, the restrictions regarding western settlement and the revenueraising acts by the British Parliament, though they provoked great ire, also created a sense of unity among the colonies. This unity helped foster resistance against the expanding power of the British Parliament and showed once again how "G-d works in mysterious ways His wonders to perform."
When the time of crisis came, the colonists were ready. That decisive turn came in April, 1775, when the Revolutionary War really began. It would not end until 1783.
The Declaration of Independence
More than a year of fighting followed the critical juncture of 1775 before the colonies could formally agree to break their ties with Britain. But on July 4th, 1776, the thirteen colonies, united as a federation of states, issued a unanimous declaration,The Declaration of Independence. It begins:
We hold these truths to be selfevident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights. That among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights...
And for the support of this declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.
Signing the Declaration of Independence
All fifty-six Americans who signed the Declaration of Independence risked death by hangingif their revolution failed. They risked sharing the fate of the courageous patriot, Nathan Hale, who was hanged without trial, and who, on the gallows, spoke the famous words: "I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country." What inspiring courage!
Note the fervor of patriotism and love for their new country expressed in the mutual pledge: "to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor." These men meant it! They followed through! Many lost their lives, many lost property, and many endured terrible suffering.
John Hancock, whose elaborate signaturebold and large "so that even George III cannot miss it"heads those affixed to the Declaration, later lost much of his fortune in the war, but fortunately escaped when General Gage sent troops to Lexington and Concord to effect his capture.
The holy dedication of all the signers, in the face of such great risk, is echoed in Jefferson' forceful declaration, "I swear, before the altar of G-d, eternal hostility to every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
The Declaration's salient words, "endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights," would profoundly affect the history of mankind.
Our forefathers understood that it was G-d, not man, who was responsible for supplying them with rights. And we today should never for an instant forget to be thankful that they believed in those rights enough to fight for them.
As so clearly stated in the Declaration, the colonists fought the Revolutionary War with a firm reliance on divine Providence. General George Washington believed that the only way they could win this war was with G-d's help. In line with the highest spiritual understanding of that time, he issued orders to his troops demanding (along with other highprincipled behavior) "punctual attendance at divine services to implore the blessings of heaven upon the means used for our safety and defense."
Surely, "G-d tempers the wind to the shorn lamb," for it was only through the most miraculous intervention of divine Providence that the ragged and tattered little band, "the continental army" led by General Washington, survived and eventually won.
Memoir of Major Ben Tallmadge
An illustration of this divine protection occurred early in the struggle for independence: At about the same time the Declaration of Independence was being signed, the British general, William Howell, had a welldisciplined fighting force of over 32,000 troops. Washington had barely 8,000, pitifully few of them trained. The Americans were gathered near the town of Brooklyn on the western end of Long Island. The British moved in with their 32,000 troops, and by August 27, 1776 our entire Continental Army was surrounded.
At this pointand there can be no doubt that it was the result of providential interventionGeneral Howell did not attack for two whole days. Had he attacked, the war would have been over. Obviously the prayers of General Washington and his men had been effective.
For the Continental Army to fight under these conditions would have been suicide; to surrender was unthinkable. The only other way was to transport 8,000 men across the East River, more than a mile wide, without the British detecting the operation.
That night, as they crossed the East River in small boats, not a sound was heard. But time was against them. Many were still on the Brooklyn side when the sun began to rise, which meant potential death for the Americans who had not yet crossed.
Major Ben Tallmadge, one of General Washington's officers there that morning, described what happened:
As the dawn of the next day approached, those of us who remained in the trenches became very anxious for our own safety; and when the dawn appeared there were several regiments still on duty.
At this time a very dense fog began to rise (out of the ground and across the river) and it seemed to settle in a peculiar manner over both encampments.... So very dense was the atmosphere that I could scarcely discern a man six yards distance. [The fog remained long after] the sun had risen. (Major Benjamin Tallmadge, Memoir, pp. 1214)
When the last man, horse, artillery and General Washington had safely crossed, the fog lifted. Washington and his men knelt in prayer to thank G-d for this blessing from heaven.
Before the war ended, many more similar instances of answers to fervent prayer were recorded in diaries and documents. They were called "providential acts of G-d." It was all part of divine Love's plan to provide the cradle for the coming of the Messiah, and its permanent establishment as the kingdom of G-d in the consciousness of humanity.
Valley Forge
As CommanderinChief of the Continental "army," it fell to George Washington to turn farmers, traders, merchants, seamen, frontiersmen and even young boys into soldiers. Because the Federation had no power to collect taxes or raise an army, Washington's soldiers, all volunteers, often furnished their own clothing, their own rifles and sometimes even their own gunpowder.
The world owes much to these liberty loving patriots who, in their cry "Give me liberty, or give me death!" were sustained by faith and prayer. Their endurance as they fought on multiple fronts unfolds in a saga of persistence in the face of incredible hardships.
Consider the snow and ice covered Valley Forge retreat. There, supported and strengthened by daily prayer, Washington's men, without boots or warm clothing4000 of them sick from exposure to cold, hunger, and disease survived a long savage winter.
George Washington The Prayer at Valley Forge
"The event is in the hands of G-d."
Sharing the fate of his small ragged army, whose endurance and courage defied a king and built a nation, Washington kneels at prayer in the woods at Valley Forge.
At Valley Forge many died of malnutrition and of the cruel, unrelenting cold that wrapped its icy arms around the tattered regiment. The faith of the ragged, decimated survivors rested in that ultimate reality whose sustaining power and ordered activity has mercifully provided continual guidance over human destiny.
"Freezing, starving, dying," wrote a 19th Century historian, "they perseveredthey kept the faith. In this testing fire for freedom [they] were forged into men of steel. Their iron will to endure helped them to survive."
"The Event is in the Hands of G-d"
General Washington shared the hardships of his small ragged patriot army, struggling alongside them in every difficulty. He also shared their indomitable faith. It was his practice, when faced with no evident human solution, to go into the woods to pray. Then, Washington said, "The event is in the hands of G-d."
When the frustrating eight year long war ended on October 19, 1783, Washington made sure a peace treaty between all warring factions was signed by Congress. He wrote to the governors of the independent states of America, congratulating them "on the glorious events which Heaven has been pleased to produce in our favor." He then announced his retirement and called a final review of his troops to say a fond farewell.
Jan Pierce records: "The love and loyalty which flowed back and forth from general to soldier, at the parade, was an emotional time. In bidding 'Adieu' to his officers, he asked each of them to come and shake his hand. They soon forgot their formal occasion and hugged and cried without shame."
Of Washington's character, Henry A. Brown wrote:
Modest in the midst of Pride; Wise in the midst of Folly; Calm in the midst of passion; Cheerful in the midst of Gloom; Steadfast among the Wavering; Hopeful among the Despondent; Bold among the Timid; Prudent among the Rash; Generous among the Selfish; True among the Faithless; Greatest among Men and Best among the Great....
It is a measure of George Washington's greatness that he glimpsed the import of the task he and his army had undertaken. During the bitter Valley Forge winter he had written:
Even if the rest of the world continues to ignore us, we will fight on. For we are fighting not only for ourselves, but for all mankind. We are fighting for freedom and human dignity and the right to worship the God of our choice.
The tremendous moral consequences of the ideals of liberty and democracy that brought on the American Revolution are by nature incalculable. So is our debt to the brave heroes who risked their lives to advance these ideals, from the first signer of the Declaration of Independence to the last farm lad wounded in battle.
These patriots knew that a redeeming Providence presided over the rise and fall of civilizations, and they firmly believed that the help they implored of G-d would be forthcoming. Their faith, courage and endurance defied a king and built a nation. Yes, a nation that would provide the cradle for the coming of the Messiah, which, in turn, would set at liberty every human being not only in America but in all the worldshowing them that "the kingdom of G-d is within" their own consciousness.
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I don't believe that the Puritans made a covenant with Hashem. They are not the descendants of Abraham {no matter what they believe}. The mormons believe that they are from the tribe of Manassah {and we know this not to be true}.
The Covenant of Abraham requires that the children keep the Torah and not accept what is considered heretical views. Only the Jewish people have satisfied the Brit through circumcision and through keeping the mitzvot are the true beneficiaries of Hashems promise. While it may be true that America was blessed because it would provide a safe haven for the Jewish people through some tough times I don't agree that the Puritans had a relationship with Hashem as the Jewish people have.
Besides... Where are the puritans today? The Jewish people are still here, and the Orthodox are keeping Torah and Mitzvot...
PS: One good thing I read about Puritans is that they did not celebrate what is known today as Christmas... This is a good thing...
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You'll probably hate me for saying this, but half the new colony at Plymouth died within the first year. I know they had great faith, but they didn't have a lot of sense. These are also my ancestors, and I believe they should have listened to and followed the Indian ways of building small shelters instead of large, hard to heat houses. What they should have done is stay on the boat until spring, and they should have fished for food. There was a well spring of food available under their ship.
Am I bad?
Bad? No. Just sounding like a Monday Morning Quarterback. Hindsight is always 20/20 isn't it?
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The mormons believe that they are from the tribe of Manassah {and we know this not to be true}.
Lol could they get any sillier :D
Anyways I agree with Muman's statement. And Ephraim, you should be very proud to be able to trace your lineage to the puritans.
Anyone can claim to be descendants of anyone. It seems more convenient for some people (like mormons) to take on a belief and based on the belief magically become a descendant of a tribe of Israel. As if mere belief makes one's DNA change or something.
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I don't believe that the Puritans made a covenant with Hashem.
So Noachides can't embrace a covenant with Hashem by living a Torah life?
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The mormons believe that they are from the tribe of Manassah
I don't know a dang thing about mormons! Where are the lost tribes? Are they hidden Jews all over the world, that know they are Jews, or are they gentiles that need to find their way home? Brit am {a Jew} says Ephraim and Manassah, are England and America!
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Besides... Where are the puritans today?
They are not here anymore because they were sucked back into the roman church, and the commie left!
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PS: One good thing I read about Puritans is that they did not celebrate what is known today as Christmas... This is a good thing...
They didn't celebrate any roman holidays! But we have many Christian JTFers, that celebrate these holidays, and it is very rude to bring this up!
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So Noachides can't embrace a covenant with Hashem by living a Torah life?
Yes Noachides do embrace a covenant with Hashem and those are the 7 Laws of Noach. The Torah is for all the world but the 613 commandments are for Jews and 7 are for Gentiles. It's nothing to feel left out about, each person has a special mission in the world. The Gentile mission is just a different one yet important one too.
If this explanation does not help (regarding who gets a covenant) just remember that the nations rejected the Torah, only Israel accepted it as a nation at Mount Sinai. People can't reject a covenant and then recreate a new one thousands of years later.
Noachides can actually take an oath to their commitment in Israel. They get a certificate and everything.
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I think I should make up some new holidays.
I could use a few more days off of work.
Throw pies at pictures of Obama day. You eliminate unhealthy food and at the same time throw pies at pictures of Obama. The traditional greeting can be "Pie on your face, Pie on your face, Obama's such a big disgrace!" Bonus points if you get an Arab to throw their shoes at the picture.
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They didn't celebrate any roman holidays! But we have many Christian JTFers, that celebrate these holidays, and it is very rude to bring this up!
Thank You, Ephraim.
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I think I should make up some new holidays.
I could use a few more days off of work.
Throw pies at pictures of Obama day. You eliminate unhealthy food and at the same time throw pies at pictures of Obama. The traditional greeting can be "Pie on your face, Pie on your face, Obama's such a big disgrace!" Bonus points if you get an Arab to throw their shoes at the picture.
:::D
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I don't know a dang thing about mormons! Where are the lost tribes? Are they hidden Jews all over the world, that know they are Jews, or are they gentiles that need to find their way home? Brit am {a Jew} says Ephraim and Manassah, are England and America!
If they are gentiles, then they ate not Jews.
"Brit am " wants to have it both ways and declare entire nations of gentiles as "lost Jews" - that's not how it works. That fellow does not get to play God.
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People like the mormons who claim to be "lost tribes" are just promoting their own form of antisemitic replacement theology.
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If they are gentiles, then they ate not Jews.
I agree 100%
"Brit am " wants to have it both ways and declare entire nations of gentiles as "lost Jews" - that's not how it works.
What do you mean, have it both ways? I understand them not being whole nations, but could it be souls with in a nation? How does it work? Where are the lost tribes, are they still Jews? The northern tribes were not very Jewish when they were exiled!
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Yes Noachides do embrace a covenant with Hashem and those are the 7 Laws of Noach. The Torah is for all the world but the 613 commandments are for Jews and 7 are for Gentiles. It's nothing to feel left out about, each person has a special mission in the world. The Gentile mission is just a different one yet important one too.
I believe there are 66 laws, but that is off the top of my head. I do not feel left out, I do wish I could convert, but that is out of my control right now!
Noachides can actually take an oath to their commitment in Israel. They get a certificate and everything.
I really wish I could go there and do that! That would be something I can't even express!
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I agree 100%
What do you mean, have it both ways? I understand them not being whole nations, but could it be souls with in a nation? How does it work? Where are the lost tribes, are they still Jews? The northern tribes were not very Jewish when they were exiled!
Like I said, if they are gentiles, then they are not Jews.
Someone born to a nonJewish mother is a gentile. They would have to convert to become Jewish, even if they are a lost Jew from the lost tribes (only God could know that). This is another reason why certain ideas in kaballah get people confused.
If a person converts, then you can say , oh "he had a Jewish soul" bla bla bla. But if he has not converted and his mother is gentile, you have no basis for saying that. He's a gentile thru and through and God bless him.
Brit am wants to have it both ways- what I mean is that he wants to take gentiles and declare them "lost Jews" - he doesn't get to play God, and many individuals he speaks of have no desire to convert or be Jewish.
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Didn't someone post a video about Gentiles going to Israel and accepting the Noahide laws? In case not, this may be of interest to you Ephraim: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkCSGmbiQcI