JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: RationalThought110 on June 28, 2007, 08:14:21 AM
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I'm posting this on this section of the forum because those who care about the Torah are most likely to understand this issue well as compared to Jews who don't care about the Torah.
Some Jewish publications give awful advice:
http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/searchview.php?id=17094
Any comments?
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All the beautiful jewish girls in the world and this schmuck has to marry a mick.........OI!!
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I think it's sad this gal didn't convert for the sake of family unity. It is however wonderful that the children are being raised Jewish. I see no problem with Jews marrying out of the faith SO LONG as the partner converts. The world needs more Jews :)
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Those kids are not Jewish and wont be unless they go through a Daati conversion.
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Those kids are not Jewish and wont be unless they go through a Daati conversion.
Correct. There aint no 'half' in Judaism....no Jewish mother=no Jew
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Those kids are not Jewish and wont be unless they go through a Daati conversion.
Correct. There aint no 'half' in Judaism....no Jewish mother=no Jew
Well said, Newman.
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All the beautiful jewish girls in the world and this schmuck has to marry a mick.........OI!!
she does'nt look Irish
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All the beautiful jewish girls in the world and this schmuck has to marry a mick.........OI!!
she does'nt look Irish
'mick' is any catholic. 'paddy' is irish.
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Oh over here we reserve that for the Irish :laugh:
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I think it's sad this gal didn't convert for the sake of family unity. It is however wonderful that the children are being raised Jewish. I see no problem with Jews marrying out of the faith SO LONG as the partner converts. The world needs more Jews :)
Allow me to correct you - we do NOT accept converts for the sake of marriage! No orthodox rabbi will convert a shikseh for marriage purposes, it is not done, and if i is done, the children would be goyim nonetheless. You are sadly mistake in saying that you see no problem in intermarrying, it leads to assimilation, and it leads to the Jewish man(or woman), adopting the beliefs of their copulation partner. It's sick, and what you ar saying is the same argument made by conservative jews, congrats.
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I think it's sad this gal didn't convert for the sake of family unity. It is however wonderful that the children are being raised Jewish. I see no problem with Jews marrying out of the faith SO LONG as the partner converts. The world needs more Jews :)
Allow me to correct you - we do NOT accept converts for the sake of marriage! No orthodox rabbi will convert a shikseh for marriage purposes, it is not done, and if i is done, the children would be goyim nonetheless. You are sadly mistake in saying that you see no problem in intermarrying, it leads to assimilation, and it leads to the Jewish man(or woman), adopting the beliefs of their copulation partner. It's sick, and what you ar saying is the same argument made by conservative jews, congrats.
While what you're saying is 100% true, you don't have to be so harsh on her. You can explain it to her civilly.
We need more Jews in the world, but intermarrying is definitely not the solution. We are much better off staying small and Jewish than big and "Jewish"
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I think it's sad this gal didn't convert for the sake of family unity. It is however wonderful that the children are being raised Jewish. I see no problem with Jews marrying out of the faith SO LONG as the partner converts. The world needs more Jews :)
Allow me to correct you - we do NOT accept converts for the sake of marriage! No orthodox rabbi will convert a shikseh for marriage purposes, it is not done, and if i is done, the children would be goyim nonetheless. You are sadly mistake in saying that you see no problem in intermarrying, it leads to assimilation, and it leads to the Jewish man(or woman), adopting the beliefs of their copulation partner. It's sick, and what you ar saying is the same argument made by conservative jews, congrats.
While what you're saying is 100% true, you don't have to be so harsh on her. You can explain it to her civilly.
We need more Jews in the world, but intermarrying is definitely not the solution. We are much better off staying small and Jewish than big and "Jewish"
Sorry, but there is so much misinformation posing as Torah on the web, I tend to get really angry when I see anyone - Jew or non-Jew - posting something like this. I always consult my Rebbe before forming an opinion on Jewish matters - we all should, what makes sense to us is not always the way the Torah and Hashem see it.
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I think it's sad this gal didn't convert for the sake of family unity. It is however wonderful that the children are being raised Jewish. I see no problem with Jews marrying out of the faith SO LONG as the partner converts. The world needs more Jews :)
Allow me to correct you - we do NOT accept converts for the sake of marriage! No orthodox rabbi will convert a shikseh for marriage purposes, it is not done, and if i is done, the children would be goyim nonetheless. You are sadly mistake in saying that you see no problem in intermarrying, it leads to assimilation, and it leads to the Jewish man(or woman), adopting the beliefs of their copulation partner. It's sick, and what you ar saying is the same argument made by conservative jews, congrats.
While what you're saying is 100% true, you don't have to be so harsh on her. You can explain it to her civilly.
We need more Jews in the world, but intermarrying is definitely not the solution. We are much better off staying small and Jewish than big and "Jewish"
Sorry, but there is so much misinformation posing as Torah on the web, I tend to get really angry when I see anyone - Jew or non-Jew - posting something like this. I always consult my Rebbe before forming an opinion on Jewish matters - we all should, what makes sense to us is not always the way the Torah and Hashem see it.
Also, her name is Shoshana, so I assumed she was Jewish, and hence, should know better
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I think it's sad this gal didn't convert for the sake of family unity. It is however wonderful that the children are being raised Jewish. I see no problem with Jews marrying out of the faith SO LONG as the partner converts. The world needs more Jews :)
Allow me to correct you - we do NOT accept converts for the sake of marriage! No orthodox rabbi will convert a shikseh for marriage purposes, it is not done, and if i is done, the children would be goyim nonetheless. You are sadly mistake in saying that you see no problem in intermarrying, it leads to assimilation, and it leads to the Jewish man(or woman), adopting the beliefs of their copulation partner. It's sick, and what you ar saying is the same argument made by conservative jews, congrats.
While what you're saying is 100% true, you don't have to be so harsh on her. You can explain it to her civilly.
We need more Jews in the world, but intermarrying is definitely not the solution. We are much better off staying small and Jewish than big and "Jewish"
Sorry, but there is so much misinformation posing as Torah on the web, I tend to get really angry when I see anyone - Jew or non-Jew - posting something like this. I always consult my Rebbe before forming an opinion on Jewish matters - we all should, what makes sense to us is not always the way the Torah and Hashem see it.
I can have any opinion I want. I didn't try to say my opinion was Torah in any way.
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I think it's sad this gal didn't convert for the sake of family unity. It is however wonderful that the children are being raised Jewish. I see no problem with Jews marrying out of the faith SO LONG as the partner converts. The world needs more Jews :)
Allow me to correct you - we do NOT accept converts for the sake of marriage! No orthodox rabbi will convert a shikseh for marriage purposes, it is not done, and if i is done, the children would be goyim nonetheless. You are sadly mistake in saying that you see no problem in intermarrying, it leads to assimilation, and it leads to the Jewish man(or woman), adopting the beliefs of their copulation partner. It's sick, and what you ar saying is the same argument made by conservative jews, congrats.
While what you're saying is 100% true, you don't have to be so harsh on her. You can explain it to her civilly.
We need more Jews in the world, but intermarrying is definitely not the solution. We are much better off staying small and Jewish than big and "Jewish"
Sorry, but there is so much misinformation posing as Torah on the web, I tend to get really angry when I see anyone - Jew or non-Jew - posting something like this. I always consult my Rebbe before forming an opinion on Jewish matters - we all should, what makes sense to us is not always the way the Torah and Hashem see it.
I can have any opinion I want. I didn't try to say my opinion was Torah in any way.
Of course you can have an opinion like that..I can say the sky is brown too, it's equally as valid.
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I think it's sad this gal didn't convert for the sake of family unity. It is however wonderful that the children are being raised Jewish. I see no problem with Jews marrying out of the faith SO LONG as the partner converts. The world needs more Jews :)
Allow me to correct you - we do NOT accept converts for the sake of marriage! No orthodox rabbi will convert a shikseh for marriage purposes, it is not done, and if i is done, the children would be goyim nonetheless. You are sadly mistake in saying that you see no problem in intermarrying, it leads to assimilation, and it leads to the Jewish man(or woman), adopting the beliefs of their copulation partner. It's sick, and what you ar saying is the same argument made by conservative jews, congrats.
While what you're saying is 100% true, you don't have to be so harsh on her. You can explain it to her civilly.
We need more Jews in the world, but intermarrying is definitely not the solution. We are much better off staying small and Jewish than big and "Jewish"
Sorry, but there is so much misinformation posing as Torah on the web, I tend to get really angry when I see anyone - Jew or non-Jew - posting something like this. I always consult my Rebbe before forming an opinion on Jewish matters - we all should, what makes sense to us is not always the way the Torah and Hashem see it.
I can have any opinion I want. I didn't try to say my opinion was Torah in any way.
Of course you can have an opinion like that..I can say the sky is brown too, it's equally as valid.
That is a bad analogy. :D
(http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.3eb5f432bf.jpg) (http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?3eb5f432bf.jpg)
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I think it's sad this gal didn't convert for the sake of family unity. It is however wonderful that the children are being raised Jewish. I see no problem with Jews marrying out of the faith SO LONG as the partner converts. The world needs more Jews :)
Allow me to correct you - we do NOT accept converts for the sake of marriage! No orthodox rabbi will convert a shikseh for marriage purposes, it is not done, and if i is done, the children would be goyim nonetheless. You are sadly mistake in saying that you see no problem in intermarrying, it leads to assimilation, and it leads to the Jewish man(or woman), adopting the beliefs of their copulation partner. It's sick, and what you ar saying is the same argument made by conservative jews, congrats.
While what you're saying is 100% true, you don't have to be so harsh on her. You can explain it to her civilly.
We need more Jews in the world, but intermarrying is definitely not the solution. We are much better off staying small and Jewish than big and "Jewish"
Sorry, but there is so much misinformation posing as Torah on the web, I tend to get really angry when I see anyone - Jew or non-Jew - posting something like this. I always consult my Rebbe before forming an opinion on Jewish matters - we all should, what makes sense to us is not always the way the Torah and Hashem see it.
I can have any opinion I want. I didn't try to say my opinion was Torah in any way.
Of course you can have an opinion like that..I can say the sky is brown too, it's equally as valid.
That is a bad analogy. :D
(http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.3eb5f432bf.jpg) (http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?3eb5f432bf.jpg)
Ha, ok, I stand corrected :D
Still, I think you know what I was trying to say
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it should be publicly known to all Jews here (and everywhere) that for a Jew the sin on having sexual relations with a gentile is having no share in the world to come. and no, one cant date assuming that the partner will convert.
To the person who said we need more Jews in the world- good idea but the way you do it is having a kosher marriage both husband and wife are Jewish and then have many kids. We cant make our own rules and if we do we will be punished severly. We have allready had a holocaust recently do you want many more both in this world and expecially the next.
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it should be publicly known to all Jews here (and everywhere) that for a Jew the sin on having sexual relations with a gentile is having no share in the world to come. and no, one cant date assuming that the partner will convert.
To the person who said we need more Jews in the world- good idea but the way you do it is having a kosher marriage both husband and wife are Jewish and then have many kids. We cant make our own rules and if we do we will be punished severly. We have allready had a holocaust recently do you want many more both in this world and expecially the next.
Just out of curiosity, what happens to the gentile?
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if u observe the "7-laws of Noahide"you will have a share in the world to come.However i dont know what would happen with a Jew and Gentile married.Having said that I have done some research,my reults are as follows.
Gilui Arayot - Illicit Sexual Relations -
There are six illicit sexual relations forbidden to a gentile:
his mother;
his father's wife, even after the father's death;
a married woman, whether married to a Jew or to a non-Jew;
his maternal sister;
a male (homosexuality);
an animal (bestiality);
so,this doesnt answer your question.so i ll do more digging.btw im a no practising christian.
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it should be publicly known to all Jews here (and everywhere) that for a Jew the sin on having sexual relations with a gentile is having no share in the world to come. and no, one cant date assuming that the partner will convert.
To the person who said we need more Jews in the world- good idea but the way you do it is having a kosher marriage both husband and wife are Jewish and then have many kids. We cant make our own rules and if we do we will be punished severly. We have allready had a holocaust recently do you want many more both in this world and expecially the next.
Just out of curiosity, what happens to the gentile?
I honestly do not know. But im speculating something bad expecially if he or she is aware that he/she is causing their partner to sin every single time they are together.
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it should be publicly known to all Jews here (and everywhere) that for a Jew the sin on having sexual relations with a gentile is having no share in the world to come. and no, one cant date assuming that the partner will convert.
To the person who said we need more Jews in the world- good idea but the way you do it is having a kosher marriage both husband and wife are Jewish and then have many kids. We cant make our own rules and if we do we will be punished severly. We have allready had a holocaust recently do you want many more both in this world and expecially the next.
Just out of curiosity, what happens to the gentile?
I honestly do not know. But im speculating something bad expecially if he or she is aware that he/she is causing their partner to sin every single time they are together.
I figured that a goy marrying a Jew is putting a stumbling block before the blind. Like a regular Jew handing a Nazir a glass of wine.
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Okay, I'm going to throw this out and see what kind of response I get. Here's my situation. My wife was raised a Christian. When we were married, as far as she and I were concerned, she was a Christian. A few years later she found out from her mother that her grandmother was Jewish and never said anything to anyone until she was on her deathbed. So, in essence, my wife's mother married a Christian man and had 8 kids, which were raised as Christians, because she also did not know about her mother's heritage.
My understanding, based on what I know about Jewish lineage, is that since my wife's grandmother on her mother's side is Jewish, my wife is Jewish. What do I do? :o
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Put that one to Lubab
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Okay, I'm going to throw this out and see what kind of response I get. Here's my situation. My wife was raised a Christian. When we were married, as far as she and I were concerned, she was a Christian. A few years later she found out from her mother that her grandmother was Jewish and never said anything to anyone until she was on her deathbed. So, in essence, my wife's mother married a Christian man and had 8 kids, which were raised as Christians, because she also did not know about her mother's heritage.
My understanding, based on what I know about Jewish lineage, is that since my wife's grandmother on her mother's side is Jewish, my wife is Jewish. What do I do? :o
get rid of her. dont sleep with her any more, at the very least not before asking a beit Din of Orthodox Rabbi's. Now you know, if you didnt it might be a different story.
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Tzvi, you can't ask a man to leave his wife! Lots of goyim have married Jews not knowing the situation. You can't break up families left and right.
Hi Warp, put it to lubab.
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Tzvi, you can't ask a man to leave his wife! Lots of goyim have married Jews not knowing the situation. You can't break up families left and right.
Hi Warp, put it to lubab.
Jewish men who have married goy women at the time of Ezra were told the same and they all did the same. My job is not to look at the phychological or whateva the "love" attachment, but to tell him the truth. Anyway I told him to ask Beit Din, before "being" with her again.
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For pratical purposes, isn't self-idetification required to be Jewish? If you don't consider yourself Jewish, then you really aren't the same thing as someone who identifies with their heritage, and pracitices the religion. Ideally you would do so, but some do not.
I know a few people wih Jewish moms who "deny" they are Jewish. They know they are accepted under Orthdox Law, yet they seem to consider the matter irrelevant. For someone who really believes in the religion, this is disappointing, but I suppose its a reality. With me, its on my father's side, so I'd have to convert to be anything other than reform.
What I'm getting at is that there may be a situation, in certain scenarios, of the coach wanting it more than the player does. And if the drive isn't internal, it really doesn't mean much. Its difficult to regaurd such people as Jewish, when they don't regaurd themselves that way, as anything more than an ethnic notation.
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Okay, I'm going to throw this out and see what kind of response I get. Here's my situation. My wife was raised a Christian. When we were married, as far as she and I were concerned, she was a Christian. A few years later she found out from her mother that her grandmother was Jewish and never said anything to anyone until she was on her deathbed. So, in essence, my wife's mother married a Christian man and had 8 kids, which were raised as Christians, because she also did not know about her mother's heritage.
My understanding, based on what I know about Jewish lineage, is that since my wife's grandmother on her mother's side is Jewish, my wife is Jewish. What do I do? :o
Hello HiWarp,
You are not Jewish, correct?
And this is the mother of your wife's mother who was secretely Jewish?
We will need to pose this one to a ruling Rabbi.
3 generations without any identification as a Jew may change the status of the person for some purposes.
Let's just clarify the facts and I can get back to you with a ruling (not from me).
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This will sound harsh and perphaps because your wife didnt know this will not apply fully but for a Jew to be with a Goy is a terrible avera, the only rectification is to end the relationship and raise the children as Jewish, if they do not want to be Jews then I do not know what can be done.
Or you could convert to Judaism, though it is an extremely difficult and long process. I really think you should consult a Orthodox rabbi in your area, the best would be a Chabad Rabbi since they deal with this sort of thing regularly and have great Ahavat Yisrael.
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I respect rabbinical ruling, but breaking up a home and having a woman who is not terribly observant (by the sound of things) raising children alone is crazy. The cost of maintaining two homes will push both parties and the children into poverty, too.
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As I said there is no simple answer, I hope that she and her children will return to Torah.
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Okay, I'm going to throw this out and see what kind of response I get. Here's my situation. My wife was raised a Christian. When we were married, as far as she and I were concerned, she was a Christian. A few years later she found out from her mother that her grandmother was Jewish and never said anything to anyone until she was on her deathbed. So, in essence, my wife's mother married a Christian man and had 8 kids, which were raised as Christians, because she also did not know about her mother's heritage.
My understanding, based on what I know about Jewish lineage, is that since my wife's grandmother on her mother's side is Jewish, my wife is Jewish. What do I do? :o
Hello HiWarp,
You are not Jewish, correct?
And this is the mother of your wife's mother who was secretely Jewish?
We will need to pose this one to a ruling Rabbi.
3 generations without any identification as a Jew may change the status of the person for some purposes.
Let's just clarify the facts and I can get back to you with a ruling (not from me).
I am not Jewish.
Yes, you are correct. It was the mother of my wife's mother who was secretly Jewish. My wife's mother found out about it well into her adult life after she had raised her children. My wife found out about it 5-6 years ago.
We are both 46 years old and have been married for 12 years. Unfortunately we have no children, so raising children Jewish isn't an issue.
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Hi HiWarp,
I spoke to a Rabbinical Authority for you who can rule on these matters.
He said that before anything you will need to determine if your wife is really Jewish. Just the fact that your wife's mother says that her mother said she was Jewish is not necessarily enough to prove that fact.
You will need to contact a Beis Din (a Rabbinical Court) in your area (I can help you do this-PM me) who will make that determination and then we'll proceed from there.
So if you would like to deal with this issue the right way, the Torah way, then get in touch with me privately and we'll get to work.
More power to you for brining this up and trying to do the right thing.
Blessings and Success!
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I think it's sad this gal didn't convert for the sake of family unity. It is however wonderful that the children are being raised Jewish. I see no problem with Jews marrying out of the faith SO LONG as the partner converts. The world needs more Jews :)
the children are not being raised Jewish. celebrating christmas is not part of Judaism and even if the mother converted she would still not be Jewish reform Judaism is not Judaism.
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Someone who rejects their own Jewishness can't be forced to accept it...that's kind of just the way it goes.
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I think it's sad this gal didn't convert for the sake of family unity. It is however wonderful that the children are being raised Jewish. I see no problem with Jews marrying out of the faith SO LONG as the partner converts. The world needs more Jews :)
the children are not being raised Jewish. celebrating christmas is not part of Judaism and even if the mother converted she would still not be Jewish reform Judaism is not Judaism.
Reform Judaism is cheap Judaism...lol...its Judaism for atheists who happen to have some Jewish ancestry. They go by paternal ancestry too.