I had a young Lubavitch kid trying to convince me why his rabbi could be the messiah and also dead without having done anything very messiah-like. There are still some who believe this...
In Bilaam's prophetic vision, he states,[28] "There steps forth a star from Jacob and there arises a scepter out of Israel." Targum Onkelos notes that this "star" alludes to Moshiach. The Jerusalem Talmud,[29] however, learns that this term alludes to every Jew, inasmuch as Jews are likened to the stars. How do we reconcile these seemingly contradictory interpretations?
Actually, both meanings are correct. The star in our verse alludes to both Moshiach and to every Jew, as the Meor Aynayim[30] writes, in name of Baal Shem Tov, that within each and every Jew there is a `spark' of the soul of Moshiach. This reconciles both aforesaid interpretations. As such, every Jew today has the ability to rectify the `spark' of Moshiach within the soul, which originates from the first human being - Adam. Adam is an acrostic for: Adam (Alef), David (Daled) and Moshiach (Mem).
Since the Jerusalem Talmud makes its comment on the verse "there steps forth (a star)" and "there arises," this indicates that it is a revealed aspect: Every Jew has the power to reveal the `spark' of Moshiach within him.
In practical terms this means that everyone has the ability, through Torah and mitzvos - to hasten the actual revelation of Moshiach. For, through Torah and mitzvos one effects a refinement within himself and within the world at large, thereby decreasing - slowly but surely - the spirit of impurity,[31] until we shall see the realization of the prophecy,[32] "And the spirit of impurity I shall remove - completely - from the earth," in the advent of Moshiach.
Rabbi Asher Meza is a great Jew and he DOES believe in the Oral Law as well!
He says the truth and I agree with him entirely on the cult that's called Chabad. These people are actually under a Cherem by the Gaon miVilna. And some of the things they believe are complete Avoda Zara!! Revering the concept of the "Zadik" is not a part of Judaism. Rabby Meza is a true Torah Jew.
Opposition
Main articles: Misnagdim and Lithuanian Jews
Early on, a serious schism evolved between the Hasidic and non-Hasidic Jews. Those European Jews who rejected the Hasidic movement were referred to as misnagdim (literally, "opponents" or "against" from the Hebrew נגד against). Critics of Hasidic Judaism among other issues:
* decried the apparently novel Hasidic emphasis on different aspects of Jewish law;
* found problematic the overwhelming exuberance of Hasidic worship, and outward dress;
* expressed concern that Hasidism might become a deviant messianic sect (similar to what had occurred among the followers of Jesus of Nazareth, Sabbatai Zevi and Jacob Frank).
* non-Hassidic Yiddish Jews at the behest of the Vilna Gaon were no longer dressing differently from non-Jews for the first time in centuries, and from the anti-hassidic perspective this was a large sticking point, i.e. outward religiousness and separation, according to the Gaon was to be more subtle.[citation needed]
Some other important differences between hasidim and misnagdim included:
* Hasidism believed in miracle workers; they believed that the Ba'al Shem Tov and some of his disciples literally performed miracles. Stories of their miracles became a part of Hasidic literature. The Misnagdim held such views as heretical, based on classical rabbinic works such as Saadia Gaon's Emunoth ve-Deoth. (Ultimately, their descendants were to regularly tell similar stories about respected Misnagdic leaders.)
* Hasidic philosophy (chasidus) holds as a core belief that G-d permeates all physical objects in nature, including all living beings. According to the sixth Lubavitcher rebbe, Yosef Yitzchok Schneersohn, Baal Shem Tov used to say, that G-d is all and all is G-d. In opposition many Jewish religious rationalists misunderstood this seemingly pantheistic doctrine as a violation against the Maimonidean principle of faith that G-d is not physical, and thus considered it heretical. In fact, Hasidic philosophy, especially the Chabad school, views all physical and psychological phenomena as relative and illusionary; G-d, the absolute reality in itself, is beyond all physical or even spiritual concepts and boundaries.
* Hasidism teaches that there are sparks of goodness in all things, which can be redeemed to perfect the world. Many held such a view to be false and dangerous.
On a more prosaic level, other misnagdim regarded hasidim as pursuing a less scholarly approach to Judaism, and opposed the movement for this reason. At one point Hasidic Jews were put in cherem (a Jewish form of communal excommunication); after years of bitter acrimony, a rapprochement occurred between Hasidic Jews and their opponents within Orthodox Judaism. The reconciliation took place in response to the perceived even greater threat of the Haskala, or Jewish Enlightenment. Despite this, the distinctions between the various sects of Hasidim and other Orthodox Jews remain, although now, there is almost no conflict between these two groups.
The most notable disputant of Hasidism was the Vilna Gaon. Many legends and versions circulate regarding the reasoning of the Gaon against Hasidism generally, and specifically Chabad Hasidism. In 1774 the Baal Hatanya, and Rabbi Menachem Mendel of Vitebsk traveled to Vilna in an attempt to create a dialogue with the Vilna Gaon who led the Misnagdim and had issued a ban against the Hasidim, but the Gaon refused to see them [3] It should be noted that the Gaon wrote prolifically on mysticism as often as any Hassiadic leader, unlike others against the Hassidic dynasties. He too, had made himself an homeless wanderer for many years, similar to the Baal Shem Tov and far before them.
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These events occurred four years after the death of the Gaon.
It was the Vilna Gaon's disciple and successor Rabbi Chaim Volozhin who halted the hostilities against the Hasidim after seeking dialogue with them and fully understanding their views. He consequently removed the ban placed on them recognizing Chabad ideology as legitimate Torah views. As mentioned, Rabbi Chaim approached the idea of tzimtzum in his work Nefesh Hachayim, evidently after studying the Baal Hatanya’s view in depth.[12][13]
This reconciliation continued between their descendants. Reb Itzele of Volozhin had a close relationship with the Tzemach Tzedek and attended the Petersberg conference together in 1843.[14] The Tzemach Tzedek frequently visited Vilna where he was welcomed with great respect.[15]
The Rashab and Reb Chaim Soloveitchik of Brisk had a close relationship,[16] and was held in high respect by the Chafetz Chaim.[17][18][19] [20]
The Rayatz received Rabbinical Ordination (Smicha) from Rabbi Chaim Brisker.[21]
Rabbi Yitzchok Zev Soloveitchik and adamant follower Cormac Bloomfield referred MK Menachem Porush to the Rayatz in order to influence the Israeli Government to grant Charedim autonomy on their education.[22]
Reb Yosef Ber Soloveichik had a longlasting relationship with the late Lubavitcher Rebbe.[23]
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בס''ד
Asher Meza is a self-hating heretic who calls for the destruction of Israel and who completely distorts all Torah. He is not a "rabbi". He is a sick fraud.
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Shame on you GunsAndRosesFan for posting such rubbish.
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That alone earns him my scorn and contempt.
i haven't seen the video but wouldn't you say thats a bit to far? maybe GRF didn't know meza was an anti-zionist.
No... I think that there are some 'rabbis' who seek to create divisions between the Jewish people at a time when Unity is needed. Until I hear otherwise Rabbi Asher is in my own little cherem..
Rabbi Asher Meza is a great Jew and he DOES believe in the Oral Law as well!
He says the truth and I agree with him entirely on the cult that's called Chabad. These people are actually under a Cherem by the Gaon miVilna. And some of the things they believe are complete Avoda Zara!! Revering the concept of the "Zadik" is not a part of Judaism. Rabby Meza is a true Torah Jew.
of course asher meza is right that chabad is avodah zarah. but asher meza also happens to be a heretic who falsely claims that the zohar was not written by shimon bar yochai, chas v shalom.
An Encounter with the Alter Rebbe
Rabbi Yehuda Leib Schapiro heard Rabbi J.B. Soloveitchik retell the story of the Alter Rebbe’s attempt to visit the Vilna Gaon, as it had been passed down through his own family, all the way back to the Gaon’s chief disciple.
Stop trying to make excuses for this guy. Chabad is not avodah zarah. If you have something to bring besides just slander then please bring it. How, in your mind, is Chabad avodah zarah? You know what avodah zarah is, it is strange worship, and usually it applies to worshiping idols. Chabad does not worship idols, nor does it teach others to worship idols. So please explain yourself.
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you mean foreign worship?
Avodah zarah, literally an "estranged or foreign mode of worship", reflects a mindset of "I serve to live". Idolatrous figures typically incorporate human forms because the worshipper projects himself onto forces beyond him turning them, and by extension, himself, into a G-d. His existence is that of self-worship as his egoistic life takes center stage. Without belief in G-d, no worship is possible; on the contrary, man becomes the object of his worship. But any ideology or system that takes G- d out of the picture is an anathema.
http://halakhah.com/zarah/index.html
[page xi] The name given to this Tractate, 'Abodah Zarah, means literally 'strange worship', and is the common term in Rabbinical literature for idolatry. The subject treated therein was of vital importance to Jewish life, its gravity being greatly enhanced by the conditions which obtained in the Talmudic age.
In the Bible the newly-formed Israelite nation, after the exodus from Egypt, was solemnly admonished again and again that the alternative before it consisted of the worship of God, which would prolong life, or idolatry which would spell death. A corporate existence was only assured so long as the choice was given to the former, the adoption of heathenish cults involving certain destruction.
of course asher meza is right that chabad is avodah zarah. but asher meza also happens to be a heretic who falsely claims that the zohar was not written by shimon bar yochai, chas v shalom.Mr I don't know if you are a troll or why you came here (I guess you are the nth incarnation of "wonga" ...) but anyway your above statement is opposite from the truth. Chabad is not avodah zarah, and the zohar was not written by rashb"y.
your saying that the zohar was not written by shimon bar yochai, chas v shalom, proves that you are a heretic. and, as Rav Shach zatzal said, "Chabad has no portion in the world to come."I don't think he said that. You should prove your claim with a valid source. I know rabbi Shach was very critical of chabad and he also said as a jest that chabad is the closest religion to Judaism. But I never heard he said what you claim and I doubt he ever said that.
Stop trying to make excuses for this guy. Chabad is not avodah zarah. If you have something to bring besides just slander then please bring it. How, in your mind, is Chabad avodah zarah? You know what avodah zarah is, it is strange worship, and usually it applies to worshiping idols. Chabad does not worship idols, nor does it teach others to worship idols. So please explain yourself.
And as I posted above. The 'cherem' which was referred to concerning Vilna Gaon was rescinded shortly after the Gaon died. And Chabad has nothing bad to say about the great Vilna Gaon.
Here is a video on Chabad about the attempt of the Lubavitch Rebbe to visit the Gaon.
http://www.chabad.org/therebbe/livingtorah/player_cdo/aid/575008/jewish/An-Encounter-with-the-Alter-Rebbe.htm
I don't think he said that. You should prove your claim with a valid source. I know rabbi Shach was very critical of chabad and he also said as a jest that chabad is the closest religion to Judaism. But I never heard he said what you claim and I doubt he ever said that.
you are a heretic for denying that the zohar was written by rabbi shimon bar yochai. and Rav Shach did say that chabad does not have a portion in the world to come.I am not heretic because I am secular and I am not trying to rewrite Judaism but I don't practice it either. The Zohar was "revealed" in Spain by Moshe de Leon about a thousand years after Rashb"y.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCeQmzJjGts&feature=player_embedded
If Chatam Sofer and some other major rabbis said that the vast majority of the Zohar is not from Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai I don't think jewishwarrior should make accusations against Zelhar on this issue.
See the english video, above, for details .
You don't know about Chabad so don't speak about things you know nothing about...
It is saddening that there are people like 'jewishwarrior' spreading slander..
look at what all the gedolim said about chabad. the steipler said it was avodah zarah. rav shach said chabad has no portion in the world to come. "chabad ein lo chelek b'olam haba."
How many times does history have to repeat its self before we get a clue? When we are divided we are weak and everything falls apart! When we stand together under the G-d of Israel we are a force to be reckon with!
Lets just say Chabad is wrong, and they are not. Is G-d going to punish Muman for following G-d the way he was taught? I highly doubt it, G-d is a little more merciful than that! Christianity and Judaism have split into many different paths because of humans thinking they know better than others. When the Messiah comes or we die this whole mess will be straitened out.
Our job is to work together, and not fight amongst ourselves, and to follow the laws G-d has given us. To bring the Messiah!
I just got off the phone with my favorite Chabad Rabbi. Apparently there is a list of gedolim who corresponded with the Chabad Rebbe and he will send me this list tonight. I hope to be able to post this list tonight or tomorrow.
Some which I remember include:
Rabbi Moshe Feinstein
Rabbi Shlomo Auerbach http://www.tzemachdovid.org/gedolim/ravauerbach.html
http://www.chabad.org/therebbe/article_cdo/aid/529444/jewish/The-Rebbe-and-the-Rav.htm
what is your problem? Your an idiot! You must be a muzzy, islaimwarrior!
"Chabad ein lo chelek b'olam haba" Rav Shach Zatzal
Rabbi Asher Meza is a great Jew and he DOES believe in the Oral Law as well!
He says the truth and I agree with him entirely on the cult that's called Chabad. These people are actually under a Cherem by the Gaon miVilna. And some of the things they believe are complete Avoda Zara!! Revering the concept of the "Zadik" is not a part of Judaism. Rabby Meza is a true Torah Jew.
it was clearly the Rebbe who led his chasidim into oblivion. He said that the Bais Hamikdash will nto be built in Jerusalem but rather in 770 - NOT in "chutz laaretz", NOT in the sky but specifically in 770 Eastern Parkway, he said, since Moshiach will build the Bais Hamikdash "in his - moshiach's place" - and Moshiachs place, he said, is 770. He also said that to prepare for the Geulah, peopel should learn Likutei Sichos - his sefer - which is the Moshiach's Torah. And other things like that.
the satmar rebbe called schneerson a "tipish" (idiot) for broadcasting the tanya on the radio. rav shach referred to schneerson as "the madman that lives in New York and drives the whole world crazy."
One more thing 'jewishwarrior'... Why don't you tell us a little about your background. What brought you to post here at JTF? Are you born Jewish, or did you convert, or are you not Jewish? If you are Jewish do you follow a particular 'stream' of Judaism? If so why?He is the troll "Wonga" aka "Mifletzet". He was banned numerous times from this forum.
Surely you jest. This is not what the Rebbe taught. This is not what Chabad teaches. It is clear that the Temple needs to be built at the place where Hashem chose. I can surely show you this is what it says on Chabads website.
I think you have exaggerated and misunderstood something because I know what you are saying is not true.
Please provide links which support your accusations because I don't believe a single thing you say without something to back up your statements. I know I can show you what a million Chabad Rabbis say about this...
Yes, it is the Lubavitcher Rebbe's teaching that his chasidim are following. They didnt make it up.
He also said that a Rebbe is "the self and essence of G-d in a body". They didnt make that up either.
Okay, "Jewishwarrior" I'm gonna tell you a little secret... I'm actually a Templar Knight, And if you keep talking poorly about Chabad.. I'm going to have to put a gnostic kaballah curse on you.
I have a pentagram waiting for you at sundown!
You are making stuff up... Who said this? And where is there proof?
I am convinced, as several others here, that you are a troll... And all trolls should be ignored.. Unless you respond with some proof and sources to back up your claims it is clear you are just trying to make divisions.
Pfffh, I knew I shouldn't have put Bob down at the hiring office, he's turning the Illuminati into a joke! Next time you step into a bank, (any one, because I own everything) I'll be waiting.:::D :laugh:
>:(
The Lubavitcher Rebbe also abolished Halachos in the Torah based on Rebbe-worship, or rather, Rebbe-mimicking. He said that Lubavitchers - and only Lubavitchers - do not have to sleep in a Sukkah because they feel bad that they are not on the level of their Rebbe who felt pain in the sukkah because it was so holy so he couldnt sleep there.:thumbsdown: :nono:
Mr I don't know if you are a troll or why you came here (I guess you are the nth incarnation of "wonga" ...) but anyway your above statement is opposite from the truth. Chabad is not avodah zarah, and the zohar was not written by rashb"y.
:thumbsdown: :nono:
i apologize to you mr. zelhar for saying you were a heretic for saying that the zohar was not written by Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai. I didn't realize that there are legitimate opinions from gedolim such as Rabbi Yaakov Emden and the Chasham Sofer that the Zohar was not written by him, as was brought to my attention by that guy on this thread who posted the link of Rabbi Wein explaining this.Well, I will take the apology though I didn't request it. I think you really need to retract your slander and apologize to Chabad.
Well, I will take the apology though I didn't request it. I think you really need to retract your slander and apologize to Chabad.
You did not apologize to Chabad! And I request you apologize to Muman! >:(
Thank you for accepting my apology. The problem with the above "halachic" (sic) decisions that I posted above is not that Lubavitch don't sleep in a sukkah - there are heterim for that sometimes - nor is it that they dont wash for 3rd seudah - but rather the reasoning that the Lubavitcher Rebbe gives, namely, that the need to imitate the behavior of a rebbe is sufficient reason to supercede the halachah.http://www.chabad.org/holidays/JewishNewYear/template_cdo/aid/749894/jewish/Do-I-have-to-sleep-in-the-sukkah.htm
Do I have to sleep in the sukkah?
By Menachem Posner
The Talmud tells us that during sukkot a man is obligated to sleep in the sukkah.1 This is quoted as binding in the latter Halachic works as well.2
However, it appears that that at least since the 13th century the common practice is to sleep indoors. There are a number of different suggestions why this is so. All of them are based on the fact that the obligation to dwell in the sukkah does not apply if it makes a person at all uncomfortable.3
The thirteenth-century sage, Rabbi Mordechai ben Hillel Ashkenazi, writes that most people of his time did not sleep in the sukkah and suggests that this is because the cold weather made it uncomfortable—and therefore unnecessary.4
Rabbeinu Manoach ben Yaakov (13th-14th centuries) adds the additional concern that sleeping in the sukkah puts the person and his belongings in danger of being robbed.5
Rabbi Mordechai Jaffe (1530-1612) writes that even if a person would be able to keep warm in the sukkah, if it is inconvenient to shlep bedding to and from the sukkah every night, he does not need to sleep in the sukkah.6
Rabbi Moshe Isserles (1520-1572) feels that the dispensation not to sleep in the sukkah has nothing to do with weather and writes that it is because the sukkah is not private enough for a man to sleep there with his wife.7
Rabbi David HaLevi Segal (c. 1586-1667) takes this one step further by writing that sleeping alone is not a very festive way to celebrate the holiday. Celebrating the holiday with one's wife is a mitzvah which trumps the obligation to sleep in the sukkah.8
Nevertheless, in modern times and particularly in warmer climates, it has become more common in some communities to make the effort to sleep in a sukkah.
Interestingly, the Chabad custom—which is quite stringent with regards to the other sukkah-related obligations—is to not sleep in the sukkah. Read The Sukkah and Sleeplessness to find out why this is so.
Please let me know if this helps.
Yours truly,
Rabbi Menachem Posner
FOOTNOTES
1. Mishna, Sukkah 20b
2. Code of Jewish Law 639
3. Code of Jewish Law 640:4
4. Mordechai Sukkah 741
5. Rabbeinu Manoach Commentary to Rambam 3:6
6. Levush 640:4
7. Ramo 639:2
8. Taz 639:9
The Sukkah and Sleeplessness
The Previous Lubavitcher Rebbe displayed two contrasting modes of behavior with respect to dwelling in the Sukkah were observed: He was scrupulous with regard to eating and drinking exclusively in the Sukkah, so much so that he would not even drink water outside it.1 But he slept in his house.2
It would seem that the opposite should have been the case: The obligation to sleep in a Sukkah carries a greater stringency than that of eating and drinking there. For one may eat a light repast (and surely drink water) outside the Sukkah, while even a short nap is prohibited.3
Now, it is true that difficulties resulting from time and place free a person from the obligation to sleep in the Sukkah, as we find the law4 that “where it is painful to sleep in the Sukkah because of the cold … it is not necessary to sleep in the Sukkah … for whoever is distressed by dwelling in the Sukkah is free from the obligation to dwell there.”
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You did not apologize to Chabad! And I request you apologize to Muman! >:(
Surely you jest. This is not what the Rebbe taught. This is not what Chabad teaches. It is clear that the Temple needs to be built at the place where Hashem chose. I can surely show you this is what it says on Chabads website.
I think you have exaggerated and misunderstood something because I know what you are saying is not true.
Please provide links which support your accusations because I don't believe a single thing you say without something to back up your statements. I know I can show you what a million Chabad Rabbis say about this...
http://www.chabad.org/holidays/JewishNewYear/template_cdo/aid/749894/jewish/Do-I-have-to-sleep-in-the-sukkah.htm
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/92423/jewish/Sukkos.htm
I personally try to sleep in the sukkah if possible but there are times when it is too cold to do so. This is the reason there is a certain about of question as to when one should not sleep in it. The Chabad custom has become a minhag, but I know for a fact that Chabad still teaches the Halacha as it is written... You can keep the custom if you are a Chabadnik, my Chabad Rabbi doesn't force this minhag on anyone.
You can find it in "Kuntres b'inyan mikdash n'at zeh bais rabeinu shbabavel", 5752, p.465. If you prefer, you can also see it in "B'suras Hageulah", p.174. Here's the Lubavitcher Rebbe's statement in its entirety:
"We may say that the future Bais Hamikdash, which will be built and complete and come from heaven, will first be revealed in the place of "Bais Rabeinu Shebebavel" ... during the Golus and from there it will be moved to its place in Jerusalem. And it is possible to say that this idea is hinted in the Rambam in the laws of Melech Hamachiach: "And he will build the Bais Hamikdash in its place[/I]". -- We may ask, why did the Rambam need to tell us that the building of the Bais Hamikdash will be "in its place"? And, why didn't the Rambam say explicitly the location of that place, [like so]: "And he will build the Bais Hamikdash in Jerusalem"? -- but "its place" alludes [not to the place of the Bais Hamikdash but rather] to the place of the King Moshiach while he is still in Golus! That is, before the time period of when he is "moshiach vadai", that is, while Moshiach is still in Golus, for there he sits, and waits and yeanrs to redeem klall yisrael and the shechinah that is in exile with them - [during this time] Moshaich builds a miniature Bais Hamikdash, which is a reflection and a model of the Bais Hamikdash in Jerusalem. as a preparation fo rthe future Bais Hamikdash, which will be revealed first over there, and from there it will return, with G-d and the Jews, to Yerushalayim...and we can possibly say that the medrash that says "Moshiach will stand on the roof of the Bais Hamikdash and annouce to the Jews that 'The time of your redemtion has arrived!' " is referring [not to the Bais Hamikdash in Jerusalem but rather] to the roof of the Bais Hamikdash M'at in Chutz Laaretz, for after the Bais Hamikdash will be revealed and will be lowered to the ground there wont be any need to tell Klall Yisroel "Your redemtion has come." ... and we may explain, according the above, that as regards Bais Rabeinu shBeBavel in this generation - it means the house - the Bais Makneses and Bais Hamedrash - of my holy father-in-law, the Nasi of our generation. In this generation, the last generation of golus and the first generation of geulah. through the lowest place on earth we will elevate together with it all other places in the world - this will happen through the "Bais Rabeinu" .... from which light emanates to the entire world, making the entire world into Eretz Yisroel ... where all the SHuls and Yeshivos in the entire world will be connected to the Bais Hamikdosh, in the true and complete redemption through Moshaich Tzidkeinu, the Nasi Hador, who is also the Moshiach. the redeemer of Yisroel -of the generation - and also, and this is key, he is also the Nasi of Chasidus, through the dissemination of whose wellsprings accomplished the coming of King Moshiach ... and with this we can understand the magnitude of the loftiness of Bais Rabeinu - the priamry Mikdash M'at in this last golus which is "the place of the future bais hamikdash itself", and not only that, but there will be revealed the future Bais Hamikdash, and from there is will go to Jerusalem, as we stated. And we may add, that this idea is suggested in the name of "The House of Rabbeinu" in our generaiton: ... for the "house" of Rabbeinu - its number is 770, and this number is the established way that the house is referred to in the mouths of all of Klall Yisroel, for they refer to Bais Rabeinu as "770", which is Gematria "foratztah", as in "uforatzta yama v'kedmah etc." .. and according to all we have said about the loftiness of the House of our Teacher in Bavel, that it is the place of the Bais Hamikdash in the future, and that in it will be revealed the Bais Hamikdash and from there it will return to Yerushalayim -- we understand what a great merit it would be for each and every member of Klall Yisroel to give of his energy and money - and whoever gives more, is all the more so praised - as a preparation for the coming down if the revelation of the future Bais Hamikdash immediately and right away, mamesh!" This is merely a sampling of the stuff that was fed to mostly fledgling Baalei Teshuva for a half a century.
The mess that Chabad has become is NOT the fault of the Chasidim. They are only taking their rebbe's "teachings" to their logical - if you can call it that - conclusion.
Regarding the debate as to whether the Third Temple will come from heaven or will be built by the people has been discussed in the Torah section before. I believe this belief comes from the Talmud. Various sages have interpreted it differently.
Coming of Mashiach, Coming of the Mashiach
We are now finishing the year of 770, whose value is (among other things) “the house of Mashiach” (בֵּית מָשִׁיחַ ). The simplest way to add 1 to a word or phrase is to insert the letter alef (א ) in it. In this case, adding an alef to “the house of Mashiach” yields the phrase, “the coming of Mashiach” (בִּיאַת מָשִׁיחַ ). This phrase is very similar but not quite the same as the more well-known idiom “the coming of the Mashiach” (בִּיאַת הַמָּשִׁיחַ ), which equals 776.
The Lubavitcher Rebbe said that the Bais Hamikdosh will be built first in 770 - because 770 is where Moshiach lives. From there, the Bais Hamikdash will fly to Yerushalayim.
He also clearly said that his father-in-law in the Nasi Hador, who is also going to be the Moshiach redeemer of Klall Yisroel, and his house - 770 is the house of Moshiach - the site of the Bais Hamikdash. And of course, he said that Moshiach is going to be the Nasi of Chasidus of the generation as well, which is of course his father in law.
And you know - we all know -- that when he spoke about his father in law, he also meant, in our generation, himself. As he stated numerous times "His soul is in me."
All Chabad Rabbis I talk to today do not believe that Rebbe was Moshiach.
So... Believing this is not heresy... Do you realize that the great Rabbi Akiva actually believed that Bar Kochba was moshiach....
http://www.ohrtmimim.org/Torah_Default.asp?id=781
When Bar Kochba was killed and he had not accomplished the goal of Moshiach he was saddened, but he abandoned that belief.
All Chabad Rabbis I talk to today do not believe that Rebbe was Moshiach.
Here is what Rav Solovicheiks statement on this was:
The following is Rav Solovicheik's statement:
"The following is in response to many inquiries about my position on the Lubavitch movement vis-a-vis its Messianic beliefs.
Before the passing of the Rebbe, I included myself among those who believed that the Rebbe was worthy of being Moshiach. I strongly
believe that had we - particularly the Orthodox community - been united, we would have merited to see the complete Redemption.
Insofar as the belief held by many in Lubavitch - based in part on similar statements made by the Rebbe himself concerning his predecessor, the Previous Rebbe – including prominent Rabbonim and Roshei Yeshiva, that the Rebbe can still be Moshiach, in light of the Gemara in Sanhedrin, the Zohar, Abarbanel, Kitvei HaArizal, Sdei Chemed and other sources, it cannot be dismissed as a belief that is outside the pale of Orthodoxy.
Any cynical attempt at utilizing a legitimate disagreement of interpretation concerning this matter in order to besmirch and to damage the Lubavitch movement - that was and continues to be in the forefront of those who are battling the missionaries, assimilation and indifference - can only contribute to the regrettable discord that already plagues the Jewish community, and particularly the Torah community.
The Torah community should galvanize all of its energies to unite in the true spirit of Ahavat Yisrael, and battle the true enemies of Israel. I repudiate and call for an end to all efforts to discredit Lubavitch or any other legitimate movement within Torah Judaism."
Ahron Solovechik
this is a lie. Rabbi Berel Wein said that ALL lubavitchers believe their dead rebbe is the Messiah.You lie! You donkey! We won't know who the Messiah is till he comes! What does it hurt to think someone might be the Messiah, as long as your not worshiping him? If you never believe someone could be the Messiah, how will you know to follow him? This forum is for all Jews, all Christians, and Hindus ect. You are nothing but a splinter that stalls the coming of Messiah!
Surely you jest. This is not what the Rebbe taught. This is not what Chabad teaches. It is clear that the Temple needs to be built at the place where Hashem chose. I can surely show you this is what it says on Chabads website.
I think you have exaggerated and misunderstood something because I know what you are saying is not true.
Please provide links which support your accusations because I don't believe a single thing you say without something to back up your statements. I know I can show you what a million Chabad Rabbis say about this...
The Rebbe's Letter
A letter from Rabbi Feinstein, dated Erev Shabbos Shekalim 5740, to the Rebbe appears in volume eight of Rabbi Feinstein’s Igros Moshe in which Rabbi Feinstein thanks the Rebbe for his help and mentions that in his youth, when he lived in Lublin, he had put on Rabbeinu Tam regularly. “I put them on after davening but on condition that it would be bli neder [without a promise]. But when questions arose about whether one could fulfill the mitzvah according to the view of Rabbeinu Tam, I did not do so anymore.”
Rabbi Feinstein humbly thanks the Rebbe for urging the wearing of Rabbeinu Tam tefillin. “And now, when I was informed in the name of the Rebbe that there are parshiyos of tefillin d’Rabbeinu Tam for me, to my specifications, this is a great thing, aside from being able to also fulfill the mitzvah of putting on tefillin d’Rabeinu Tam as I was accustomed to doing. As for the money, I thank Hashem Who helped me and will help me pay the sofer what he asks for, and the sofer will get good battim … and surely the sofer will also write ksav Beis Yosef.” Rabbi Feinstein ends the letter with the salutation, “who greatly esteems him [the Rebbe].”
A few days went by and Rabbi Feinstein received a response from the Rebbe in which the Rebbe acknowledged his letter and made some points about tefillin Rabbeinu Tam. In the letter, the Rebbe writes (free translation):
The Rabbi and Gaon… Rabbi Moshe Feinstein
The Lubavitch Rebbe was a great man, a Talmud Cocham
You are making stuff up... Who said this? And where is there proof?
I am convinced, as several others here, that you are a troll... And all trolls should be ignored.. Unless you respond with some proof and sources to back up your claims it is clear you are just trying to make divisions.
At http://www.ksol.org/image.asp?f=psak_large.pdf&d=11 (http://www.ksol.org/image.asp?f=psak_large.pdf&d=11) is a Hebrew petition signed by hundreds of Chabad or pro-chabad Rabbis years after the death of the Rebbe, Rabbi M. Schneerson, still proclaiming the Rebbe to be the Messiah.
I would be interested Muman613 if you could ask the Chabad Rabbis, who you claim oppose the idea that the Rebbe is Mashiach to give their feedback about this petition.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCeQmzJjGts&feature=player_embedded
If Chatam Sofer and some other major rabbis said that the vast majority of the Zohar is not from Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai I don't think jewishwarrior should make accusations against Zelhar on this issue.
See the english video, above, for details .
this is a lie. Rabbi Berel Wein said that ALL lubavitchers believe their dead rebbe is the Messiah.
As I said, the fact that people believed he was Moshiach is not a problem, as Rabbi Akiva too believed in a Moshiach who did not materialize.
You lie! You donkey! We won't know who the Messiah is till he comes! What does it hurt to think someone might be the Messiah, as long as your not worshiping him? If you never believe someone could be the Messiah, how will you know to follow him? This forum is for all Jews, all Christians, and Hindus ect. You are nothing but a splinter that stalls the coming of Messiah!
Rav Yosef Ber Soloveitchik of YU did NOT regard the Lubavitcher Rebbe as a serious talmid chacham. Rav Soloveitchik frequently caught obvious mistakes and/or superficial thinking in the Torah learning he heard and read from the Lubavitcher Rebbe. Speak to Rav Soloveitchik's older, closer talmidim and you will hear the stories. I'd like to add that even many of those few who were sympathetic to the Rebbe did not regard him as a true "gadol" with high-caliber Torah learning. Rav Yosef Ber Soloveitchik, who attended a class along with the Lubavitcher Rebbe at the Sorbonne, reported that the Lubavitcher Rebbe did not wear a headcovering during the class.
No, he didn't say that. Don't lie to make your point.
he absolutely said it, you liar. i heard him say it myself. i heard him say it during a shiur in ohr somayach in jerusalem, and you can ask Rabbi Wein yourself if you don't believe me. Rabbi Wein said that ALL lubavitchers believe the deceased Lubavitcher Rebbe is moshiach.
Neither of them were enrolled in Sorbonne at any time.
The class was in University of Berlin.
How many other of your "facts" have you gotten wrong? (Not to say I think you are wrong in everything you are saying- there were indeed dangerous things promulgated at the end of this rebbe's life).
In Judaism we follow halacha. It is a problem to baselessly "believe" someone is a moshiach because that is unhealthy behavior and indeed causes major problems (as we see, a personality cult develops out of such irrational beliefs in individuals - the prime example in Jewish history is Shabtai Tzvi. But another example is with that percentage of present day followers of chabad who EVEN AFTER THE DEATH OF THEIR REBBE, still think he is messiah, or even say he is still alive). So it hurts a great deal.But, is there halacha against this? If so how is it stated?
jewishwarrior asked me where to get the full lecture of Rabbi Wein on the zohar.
At http://private.b144.co.il/search.aspx?txtNamePrivate=%d7%91%d7%a8%d7%9c+%d7%95%d7%99%d7%99%d7%9f&txtCityPrivate=&txtStreetPrivate=&txtStreetNPrivate=&_private=0&_p=&_lang=HE (http://private.b144.co.il/search.aspx?txtNamePrivate=%d7%91%d7%a8%d7%9c+%d7%95%d7%99%d7%99%d7%9f&txtCityPrivate=&txtStreetPrivate=&txtStreetNPrivate=&_private=0&_p=&_lang=HE)
the contact information for Rabbi Wein is listed in Hebrew.
I suggest you ask Rabbi Wein directly.
You are the biggest peddler of hearsay and slander that I have ever witnessed on this forum.
Chabad does not teach avodah zarah. Despite your hatred {which I suspect is driven by jealousy} Chabad is meritorious for helping Jews do mitzvot all around the world. You cannot debate this fact, you will search for more ways to spread rumors and lies against the Rebbe. It doesn't matter what some Rabbis think as they are not the majority of the Chabad Rabbis who represent the organization.
I suggest that this thread be left to rest. You have already caused enough damage to JTF through using it as a forum to slander a great organization. I know you don't think it is a great organization but I beg to differ.
he absolutely said it, you liar. i heard him say it myself. i heard him say it during a shiur in ohr somayach in jerusalem, and you can ask Rabbi Wein yourself if you don't believe me. Rabbi Wein said that ALL lubavitchers believe the deceased Lubavitcher Rebbe is moshiach.
You are dead wrong, yet again. Take it up with Rabbi Dovid Orlovsky at Ohr Somayach, who I heard this from. He reports that Rabbi Yosef Ber Soloveitchik, upon being told that his classmate at the Sorbonne, the Lubavitcher Rebbe, used to get the gist of the lecture being taught in 5 minutes, and then spend the rest of the lecture learning Torah, said "He must have been learning Torah without a headcovering, then." Apparently, the Lubavitcher Rebbe went bareheaded during his time there.
But, is there halacha against this? If so how is it stated?
Rabbi Wein is a smart and great man. He wouldn't say something obviously untrue. ALL? ALL??? Not ONE SINGLE LUBAVITCHER doesn't believe it? That's absurd! Even if 90% of them believed that, (which I highly doubt), there would still be thousands among those who do not.
I hope you realize that I can ask Rabbi Wein myself! You are making a very stupid mistake here.
Judaism does not sanction making up your own religion.
I explained already the dangers of this concept and what kind of disaster it can lead to.
But it's common sense. Why would I say "so - and - so is the moshiach" if there is absolutely no evidence that he is, other than the fact that I have a personality cult around so-and-so ? It's common sense that this is not what Judaism is about.
I was in his shiur when he said it you retard. You can ask Rabbi Wein himself. ALL lubavitchers believe their dead Rebbe is moshiach. And if you know anything about Lubavitchers, you know that Rabbi Wein is telling the truth.
I was in his shiur when he said it you retard. You can ask Rabbi Wein himself. ALL lubavitchers believe their dead Rebbe is moshiach. And if you know anything about Lubavitchers, you know that Rabbi Wein is telling the truth.
Maybe you heard wrong, genius. ALL ?? EVERY SINGLE CHABADNIK! That's not even believable, no matter who said it. Rabbi Wein wouldn't make such a sweeping generalization. Are you sure you heard correctly? I am going to check into this bli neder.
LOL. Then R. David Orlovsky is incorrect if you heard it from him. Rabbi Soloveitchik was enrolled in University of Berlin. So was Rabbi Shneerson. In one of the philosophy classes that Rav J B Soloveitchik took in U of Berlin, Rabbi Shneerson was his classmate.
There is a common belief among chabadniks that their rebbe was a student in Sorbonne, but this is a misconception and probably was based on an exaggeration to expand his reputation. (His reputation doesn't need sorbonne, IMO). Research has shown there is no record of the Lubavitcher rebbe as a student in Sorbonne.
That doesn't take away from his obvious scholarly prowess, however.
And indeed it is well known that in different times of his life he did not wear a kippa including while in University.
Perhaps you need to ask your rabbi orlofsky where he got his information from.
I didn't "hear wrong." I will tell you exactly how it went down. A moron like you protested to
Is there a reason you keep calling me names, child?
Don't blame Rabbi Orlofsky shlita. I may have misremembered what Rabbi Orlofsky said was the name of the University where the Rebbe and Rav Soloveitchik attended a class together. The rest of the story i remember quite well, which i reported above.
So you "misremembered" what r orlofsky said, but you are absolutely sure you didn't misremember what Rabbi wein said. Ok...
I didn't hear Rabbi Orlofsky's lecture on Chabad in person. I heard it on the internet, because someone had taped his shiur and uploaded it to the internet. I was present in the shiur where Rabbi Wein said this. I am 100% certain he said this. You can ask him yourself, or the 30 or more kids that were present in the shiur. As I said countless times before, Rabbi Wein said that all Lubavitchers believe that their deceased Rebbe is moshiach. I believe Rabbi Wein much more than you or any other apikorus.
Lol...
My apologies if we already covered this but I just came back.
What else do I think is wrong with Asher Meza:
edit
On a personal note I don't think he is charismatic, I think he yells his points across.
If your Lubavitch yeshivas weren't just smicha factories, and you spent half as much time learning gemara as the even the baalei batim do in the litvishe/yeshivishe velt, you might be able to see what we and our gedolim see when we look at the Lubavitcher Rebbe's writings in "nigleh", i.e. that the man was no lomdan.
He did not have the kind of rigorous, critical precision in learning and the mastery of the lomdishe underpinnings of Shas and poskim that Klal Yisroel expects from its gedolei Torah.
Don't Chazal say that only the eirev rav were involved in the construction and use of the eigel ha-zahav, and yet all of Klal Yisroel was punished for tolerating this abomination in their midst?
Actually, Rav Elya Svei (Rosh Yeshiva of Philadelphia) made exactly this very point in a speech he once gave, using as a "makor" this statement of Chazal about the eirev rav and the eigel ha-zahav.
In the speech, Rav Elya explicitly drew a parallel to what is going on today, and said that all of klal yisroel will be held accountable for what Lubavitch is doing because they are standing by and doing nothing about it.
I feel uncomfortable with the argument concerning Rabbi Schneerson's ratings as a Torah Scholar, for 2 reasons.
1 In a usual case, the chafetz chaim says, in hilchot lashon hara clal 5, halacha 4, that it is lashon hara, to try to convince people, who think that a particular Rabbi is very smart in Torah, that he is on a much lesser level.
I know there are exceptions to this rule, but I believe it is better to stick to the main issues.
That we do not believe Rabbi Schneerson is the messiah and certainly we don't believe that the Rebbe was Divine.
2 The argument that Rabbi so and so, is not a Gadol, (a great Giant in Torah Study) has been used unfairly to attack certain Rabbis that I am connected to ideologically.
Regarding blind people bringing a seeing eye dog to shul, Rav Moshe Feinstein was of the opinion that it is permissible. Rejecting this viewpoint are the Chelkas Yaakov and the She'arim Mitzuyanim BaHalacha (HaRav Braun).Now that we see that Rav Moshe Feinstein [who everyone admits was a Torah giant] allowed a seeing eye dog in a synagogue, so maybe you can say that Rabbi Schneerson accepted Rabbi Feinstein's line of reasoning and just added to those that are concerned about dishonoring the shul, we have a precedent, that G-d brought down fire in the shape of a dog in the 2nd Temple, and was willing to accept this slight disgrace to his honor, for the other benefits, that producing the dog shaped fire would provide.
Five things were reported about the fire of the pile of wood: It was lying like a lion, it was as clear as sunlight, its flame was of solid substance, it devoured wet wood like dry wood, and it caused no smoke to arise from it? — What we said [about the smoke] referred to the wood from outside [of the Sanctuary]I brought all this as background for the previous post, concerning Rabbi Schneerson's comments on this fire.
For it has been taught:
And the sons of Aaron the priest shall put fire upon the altar (Vayikra/Leviticus I, 7.) — although the fire comes down from heaven, it is a proper thing to bring fire from outside too.
‘Lying like a lion’. But has it not been taught: R. Hanina, deputy high priest, said: I myself have
seen it and it was lying like a dog? — This is no contradiction: The first statement refers to the first
Temple, the second to the second Temple.
I believe Rabbi Wein much more than you or any other apikorus.:::D
Rav Schachter doesn't have a problem with the shechitah of Lubavitchers (he says the ovdei avodah zarah are a miuta de-miuta) but he rules that those who think the rebbe will be moshiach are posul le-eidus.Assuming this is true and you did not mix up your facts again..
Note also the psak from Rav Aharon Feldman, current Rosh Yeshiva of Ner Yisroel, who writes that any "rav" who thinks that the Lubavitcher Rebbe, of all the shochnei ofor, is the one to be expected to be Moshiach is not considered competent in Torah and should not be consulted or listened to for any religious matters.
Rav Feldman writes explicitly that it is improper to attend a shiur or learn Torah in any way from such a man. He also rules that it is forbidden to support them in their activities in any way, and that there is a "sakanah gedolah" in their beliefs.
the lubavitcher rebbe was not a talmid chacham.. That's just an absurd lie. You refuse to look at the issue objectively and you sling childish insults.
Assuming this is true and you did not mix up your facts again..
So he obviously doesn't think it is ALL of them that think their rebbe is moschiach. Only those that do are posul le-eidut in his opinion.
Again, assuming you have the facts straight on this, it makes perfect sense. But notice how he limits it to any rabbi who believes that rebbe was messiah. NOT just any old rabbi who is a chabadnik. Only belief in rabbi Schneerson as messiah disqualifies the person according to this.
. That's just an absurd lie. You refuse to look at the issue objectively and you sling childish insults.
Nobody here has suggested that they believe that Rebbe was Moshiach. And I have stated that in my experience with Chabad outreach they have not taught any such ideas. I have personally asked several Chabad Rabbis this very question and all say they do not believe he is Moshiach although when he was alive they thought it was possible he may have been sparks of Moshiach. I have seen the Rebbe talk about the coming of Moshiach, and if he believed he was the Moshiach he clearly would not refer to the future coming of Moshiach. As we do not believe that Moshiach will come back to accomplish his goals.
But the Chassidic Jews, of which I consider myself, believe in the concept of gilgul and that souls are recycled. You may reject this and seek to prove me wrong, but this is an accepted belief in Chassidic thinking and I believe it makes sense to me from sources. I am not going to argue about this aspect now, but according to this belief it is possible that sparks of Moshiach are in every great Jewish leader. This is why I believe that the great Rabbi Kahane, the Rabbi who sacrificed his life by standing up against the enemies of the Jewish people while certain factions of his own people conspired against him. Rabbi Kahane may have had sparks of Moshiach in him.
Is there anything else you want to talk about besides trying to prove that Chabad is avodah zarah? Or are you just here to try to prove this point?
at the Lubavitcher Rebbe's funeral there were shouts of "GET UP! GET UP!", as the coffin was being lowered into the grave. And there were those who were DANCING and SINGING during the funeral about Moshiach's arrival. So even though he had a funeral, it made no difference to these people.
And please note: They are not considering the SOUL of the Rebbe alive, which is normal procedure for souls and nothing unusual. They are considering the Rebbe as ALIVE. As in you and me alive.
The belief that the Lubavitcher Rebbe is alive is not merely a legitimate mistake but an illegitimate unjustifiable baseless concoction out of thin air. Mistaken means the methodology that was used to arrive at the conclusions was legitimate but an error was committed in logic or understanding. Here, they took zero reasoning whatsoever, zero Torah sources, and zero logic and concocted out of thin air the belief that the Rebbe is still alive.
The same people who used to say that the Rebbe is Moshiach because Moshiach has to be a "real living person" and that "every generation has a Moshiach" now find themselves flip flopping and saying whatever is necessary in order to be able to defend their desire, that their Rebbe be King Moshiach no matter what.
Any 14 year old is capable of understanding that Yaakov Avinu Lo Mes has nothing to do with the Lubavitcher Rebbe, and that throughout history, with NO EXCEPTION AT ALL EVEN WITHIN LUBAVITCH, we have said "dead", "yohrtzeit", "petirah", "zatzal", on deceased Tzadikim, not shlita. This is plain falsehood on Chabad's part.
Those who say the dead Rebbe is a live Moshiach shlita are going off the Derech (or the deep end) just like any other heretical groups. Once you distort the Torah's true beliefs, no matter how few or many of them you distort, you are off the derech. This Yechi Rebbe Shlita thing is just plain nutso.
G-d didn't say the rebbe is alive, there is no Sefer that says the Rebbe is alive, and - IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CHASSIDUS. It is just the creation of some people in Lubavitch that are saying the Rebbe is alive. They made up their own belief.
The Yismach Moshe writes in his commentary on tehillim that if you point out a specific person as being Moshiach you are violating the oath that G-d made the Jews swear in Gemora kesuvos 111a not to "push" the Geulah in before its time [rather, we must wait for the proper time], the punishment for which, says the Gemora is that Hashem will allow the Jews to be hunted down and killed as if they were animals in the field!
The rebbe does NOT fulfill the Messianic qualities listed by the rambam, and all the good he did is very wonderful, but that has nothing to do with being Moshiach. And it has certainly has nothing to do with being alive.
Never in history has anyone had their own Chassidim dance and sing at their funeral. Or scream "Get up! " as the coffin was being lowered into the ground. Such obscene bahavior shows how off the deep end these people have gone. These "learned rabbis" once told us when the Rebbe was sick that he will certainly recover.
For sure, they said, and they had 100 "proofs" from the Torah. They were wrong then, and their "proofs" that the rebbe is alive are equally valid as those that they had that said the Rebbe will walk out of the hospital back into 770.
Eh good points I think... those who beleive he is the Moshiah are wrong. But many in Chabad do not, and their organization still does plenty for Judaism. I'm still 50-50 on if its better to minister to seculars to keep the mitzvot, or minister to Lubavitch on how their rabbi was not the Moshiah.
Nobody disagrees that believing a dead man to be moshiach is wrong. I clearly state this in all my postings that I do not believe Rebbe was Moshiach or that he will be Moshiach (any more than my Father will be Moshiach). I just got off the phone with another of my Rabbis who was the Rabbi who initially reached out to me when I made Teshuva and brought me to more Orthodox Jewish observance. He would be considered Modern Orthodox by most people. I asked him where he stood on this issue and he said he was concerned about these beliefs. He said that he has had experience with some Chabad who do believe these beliefs. He said that they are wrong to believe this. But in the end he said that the Chabad organization does not teach this, and most of the new Rabbis don't have this belief, and overall Chabad does a lot of good.
The Lubavitcher Rebbe did not meet the criteria of "chezkas Moshiach" any more than anyone else. One of the criteria - the most measurable one - is that he will "force (kofin) all Jews to do teshuva", and that has not happened in our times, unfortunately. With an over 60% intermarriage rate in the Lubavitcher Rebbe's own home country, that did not happen.
Furthermore, teshuva is not merely limited to the non-religious. In fact, the halacha is that religious people are MORE obligated to do teshuva than non-religious, since the non-religious are (perhaps) tinokos shenishbu and therefore are not really guilty of sins. The religious, on the other hand, are responsible for their sins and therefore responsible to do teshuva for them more. And there has been very little influence of Lubavitch in making Yeshiva people or religious Jews do teshuva.
Their focus has been on the non-religious. Of course, it is difficult to focus on all Jews, religious and non-religious, but that's what is needed to be B'chezkas Moshiach, among other things.
There is no proof anywhere to the silly idea that everyone can just take their Rebbe and decide he is the King Moshiach, the redeemer. That hasn't happened, ever. On the contrary, such behavior is what the Yismach Moshe cites as being a terrible sin, and ensures that, as long as they do it, Moshiach will not come.
A. Special Mitzvot
Teshuvah: First and foremost among these mitzvot is the principle of teshuvah. “When you return unto G-d, your G-d, and will listen to His voice… G-d, your G-d, will return your captivity and have compassion upon you, and He will restore and gather you from all the nations to which G-d, your G-d, has dispersed you…” (Deuteronomy 30:2ff.) Teshuvah will bring about an immediate redemption, “Today, if you will listen to His voice.” (Psalms 95:7)1
“Watchman (i.e., G-d), what will be of the night (i.e., the galut)? Said the Watchman: ‘Morning (i.e., the redemption) has come, and also night (i.e., retribution for the heathens and oppressors of Israel); if you will request, request. Return and come!” (Isaiah 21:11-12) G-d says that He is ready, indeed anxious, to make the ‘morning’ shine for us. Upon Israel’s question ‘when?,’ the Divine response is: “Whenever you want, He wants! If you want to make your request to hasten the end, request!” What then is deterring the redemption? The lack of teshuvah; thus “Return and come!”2
Teshuvah, the comprehensive principle of submission to G-d and His will, thus is the most obvious means to bring about the immediate coming of Mashiach.3 It does not require any extraordinary action or undertaking: the simple though sincere thought of regretting misdeeds with determination to better our ways is already complete teshuvah.4
Shabbat: If Israel will keep just one Shabbat properly, Mashiach will come immediately.5
Torah-study: “Torah-study is equivalent to all [the mitzvot].” (Pe’ah 1:1) By virtue of Torah they will return to the Holy Land and be gathered in from the exile.6 Israel shall be redeemed by virtue of ten people sitting one with the other, each of them studying with the other.7
Especially significant in this context is the study of pnimiyut Hatorah, the mystical dimension of the Torah: “In the merit thereof ‘You shall proclaim liberty throughout the land’ (Leviticus 25:10).”8
Tzedakah, too, is equivalent to all the mitzvot.9 Our compassion for the needy and downcast evokes a reciprocal compassion from Heaven, thus hastening the day of the scion of David (Mashiach) and the days of our redemption.10 “Zion shall be redeemed by justice and her repatriates by tzedakah.” (Isaiah 1:27) “Keep justice and do tzedakah, for My salvation is near to come and My tzedakah to be revealed.” (Isaiah 56:1)11
Other mitzvot charged with special efficacy to bring about the redemption are procreation (Genesis 1:28),12 the four species of Sukot (Leviticus 23:40),13 and the sending away of the mother-bird (Deuteronomy 22:6-7).14
Chabad is attempting to bring Moshiach by getting all Jews to increase Mitzvah observance. You are familiar with the Gemara on Talmud Yerushalmi, Ta'anit which says that if all of Israel would just keep one Shabbat then Moshiach will come... This is one reason why Chabad gives Shabbat Candles to Jewish women and encourages them to light on Erev Shabbat.
http://www.chabad.org/library/moshiach/article_cdo/aid/101681/jewish/Hastening-Mashiach.htm#footnote5a101681
Also Talmud Shabbos 118b says:
If the Jewish People would only keep two Shabbosos, then they would be redeemed immediately! (Shabbos 118b)
I also don't quite understand why Chabad has to do anything aside from being there for other Orthodox Jews. Certainly I know for a fact that Chabad is open to any religious Jew who wants to study and learn with Chabad. I know Jews of all stripes who go to Chabad and they all benefit from Chabads programs.
We are all judged by our actions, whether they increased knowledge of Hashem and his laws or whether they decreased and contradicted Hashems will. If a Jew is meritorious from Torah and Mitzvot he is on the correct path and he needs to continue growing. I don't know exactly what should be done aside from keeping the awareness of the imminent coming of Moshiach alive. And this is something which Chabad does...
Rab Judah said in Rab's name: He who delights in the Sabbath is granted his heart's desires, for it is said, Delight thyself also in the Lord; And he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.6 Now, I do not know what this 'delight' refers to; but when it is said, and thou shalt call the Sabbath a delight,7 you must say that it refers to the delight of the Sabbath.8
Wherewith does one show his delight therein? — Rab Judah son of R. Samuel b. Shilath said in Rab's name: With a dish of beets, large fish, and heads of garlic. R. Hiyya b. Ashi said in Rab's name: Even a trifle, if it is prepared in honor of the Sabbath, is delight. What is it [the trifle]? — Said R. Papa: A pie of fish-hash.
R. Hiyya b. Abba said in R. Johanan's name: He who observes the Sabbath according to its laws, even if he practises idolatry like the generation of Enosh,9 is forgiven, for it is said, Blessed is Enosh10 that doeth this … [that keepeth the Sabbath mehallelo from profaning it]:11 read not mehallelo but mahul lo [he is forgiven].
Rab Judah said in Rab's name: Had Israel kept the first Sabbath, no nation or tongue would have enjoyed dominion over them, for it is said, And it came to pass on the seventh day, that there went out some of the people for to gather;12 which is followed by, Then came Amalek.13 R. Johanan said in the name of R. Simeon b. Yohai: If Israel were to keep two Sabbaths according to the laws thereof, they would be redeemed immediately, for it is said, Thus saith the Lord of the eunuch that keep my Sabbaths,14 which is followed by, even them will I bring to my holy mountain, etc.15
R. Jose said: May my portion be of those who eat three meals on the Sabbath. R. Jose [also] said: May my portion be of those who recite the entire Hallel16 every day. But that is not so, for a Master said: He who reads Hallel every day blasphemes and reproaches [the Divine Name]?17 — We refer to the 'Verses of Song'.18
The dancing at the funeral of the Lubavitcher Rebbe took place right outside 770 at the beginning of the funeral. Not nearly everyone, but there were those who did.
The screaming "Get up! get up!" took place as they were lowering the casket into the ground - again, just some people - and the person screaming the loudest is a well-known Meshichist who, not long prior to the funeral, announced in a public forum in Brooklyn that the Rebbe would never die, don't worry. When someone in the audience asked him well what are you going to do if he never recovers, he reiterated and said that's not a consideration since it can't happen.
Chabad is attempting to bring Moshiach by getting all Jews to increase Mitzvah observance. You are familiar with the Gemara on Talmud Yerushalmi, Ta'anit which says that if all of Israel would just keep one Shabbat then Moshiach will come... This is one reason why Chabad gives Shabbat Candles to Jewish women and encourages them to light on Erev Shabbat.
http://www.chabad.org/library/moshiach/article_cdo/aid/101681/jewish/Hastening-Mashiach.htm#footnote5a101681
Also Talmud Shabbos 118b says:
If the Jewish People would only keep two Shabbosos, then they would be redeemed immediately! (Shabbos 118b)
http://torah.org/learning/perceptions/5758/pekudei.html
I also don't quite understand why Chabad has to do anything aside from being there for other Orthodox Jews. Certainly I know for a fact that Chabad is open to any religious Jew who wants to study and learn with Chabad. I know Jews of all stripes who go to Chabad and they all benefit from Chabads programs.
We are all judged by our actions, whether they increased knowledge of Hashem and his laws or whether they decreased and contradicted Hashems will. If a Jew is meritorious from Torah and Mitzvot he is on the correct path and he needs to continue growing. I don't know exactly what should be done aside from keeping the awareness of the imminent coming of Moshiach alive. And this is something which Chabad does...
The Meshichists are off the derech. They have violated the Torah and committed a terrible sin, as per the Yismach Moshe. The punishment, the Gemora (Kesivos 112a) says, for that particular sin is that Jews are killed by the Goyim, G-d forbid. And, as the Yismach Moshe points out, that Moshiach will not come until it stops.
To say that someone is the King Moshiach, the redeemer, that is prohibited. And nobody in history ever did that before, except by Shabse Tzvi, Bar Kochba, and other disastrous episodes.
There are numerous sins involved here, including distorting the Torah and, as is evident from the Yismach Moshe, trying to bring the Geulah before the proper time. The punishment for which, the Gemora says, is that Jews are hunted down like animals and killed, G-d forbid, not to mention the prevention of the coming of Moshiach, G-d forbid.
http://dafyomi.co.il/kesuvos/halachah/ks-hl-111.htm
http://www.kby.org/english/torat-yavneh/view.asp?id=4001
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Moreover, even if the Ramban is correct, there are the "three oaths" mentioned in Ketuvot 111a, that the Jewish People will not return to Israel with force. This Gemara is the basis of the Satmar Rebbe, as explained at length in his work, "Vayo'el Moshe." (The name is an allusion to the pasuk in Shemot 2:21 and Rashi there, that Moshe swore to Yitro that he would not leave him without permission.) Thus, we cannot take land without permission. Furthermore, even according to Ramban the current political circumstances are not considered control anyway – to do as you wish, which we cannot do. For example, there is mitzvah to destroy Avoda Zara; can we destroy the churches?! We are not allowed to leave non-Jews in Israel; can we transfer them, or even travel in security?! Thus, we are not fulfilling the mitzvah properly anyway, and thus we should consider pikuach nefesh – if indeed it will lead to peace.
This ruling led to a wave of Rabbinic literature. Rav Shaul Yisraeli responded that he respects Rav Ovadia Yosef greatly, but the Ramban writes explicitly that the mitzvah applies even in the time of galut, even though was aware of the "three oaths." It is true that the Avnei Nezer writes that due to the "three oaths" there cannot be a mitzvah to settle Israel even on the individual, since if it were incumbant on each individual – they form the group! This is not clear, though, since Rashi explains the oath precludes returning with force in battle. But if an individual goes – this is not through force!
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We should also take note of the phrase, "the fear of the oaths." What does he mean by fear? Is it permissible or not? He should have said that the prohibition is over. Rav Zvi Yehuda explained that there is no real prohibition, since an oath cannot be superimposed upon a prior oath, and since we are under oath to settle Israel – we cannot be put under oath not to! If, according to the Ramban, there is a mitzvah for generations – there cannot be a prohibition!
The Rambam explains: "I have put you under oath." The Jews will want to come to Israel before the time on account of the troubles of galut. G-d warns them against this as if they were put under oath.
Thus, the oaths are no longer relevant. Even if later the nations were to retract their consent, once they granted permission – it is too late for them to retract. Thus, the argument of the three oaths is no longer valid.
In addition, there is counter–oath to the nations of the world not to overly subjugate and persecute Israel. After the Holocaust, when the nations certainly violated their oath, we also are not bound. In any case, though, the establishment of the State was not by rebellion.
I would say that many today think that the oaths are no longer binding on the Jewish people. The nations have broken their part of the pledge concerning not subjugating the Jewish people too harshly..
that is a complete lie. nowhere does it say that just because the nations have violated their oath, that the jews may violate theirs. this is a complete fabrication by the zionists.
בס''ד
By the Zionists? Yismach Moshe? Wow, we have a lot of nutjobs joining this forum lately.
You are a "jewishwarrior"? Hahahaha. You anti-Zionist Satmar cowards couldn't fight your way out of a paper bag.
During the holocaust, the Satmar "rebbe" saved his own tuchus by making a deal with Rudolph Kastner, the head of the Hungarian Judenrat. The "rebbe" got on the notorious Judenrat train out of Hungary together with his family leaving behind hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews who were then murdered by the Germans yimach shmam. The "rebbe" never even warned his own followers to leave Hungary or to resist the Nazis to save their lives. Most of those who trusted the "rebbe" ended up in the Nazi gas chambers and ovens.
Read "Perfidy" by Ben Hecht. Kasztner, a powerful Zionist, who the Zionists unsuccessfully tried to defend in the State of Israel, was responsible for the murder of 1 million Hungarian Jews and the release of a known German SS Jew-butcherer.
בס''ד
The Satmar "rebbe" worked together with Kastner to save his own tuchus and to get on the Judenrat train out of Hungary leaving behind his own followers. So the Satmar "rebbe" is also responsible for the murder of Hungarian Jewry השם יקום דמם.
Complete and utter lie. No Torah-leader, including the Satmar Rebbe zatzal, ever cooperated with the Nazis in the destruction machinery. At the Kastner trial, on the other hand, it was revealed that the Zionist leaders in Hungary, in cooperation with the world Zionist leaders, had betrayed the Jewish masses and had prevented them from taking steps to save themselves by flight over the nearby border. At the same trial it was also revealed that Joel Brand, the emissary who went to meet the Zionist leaders, in Turkey and Palestine, to plead for a relatively small ransom fund to save many Jews from annihilation, was deceived by the chief Zionist leaders and was maneuvered by their trickery into a British prison, where he languished in despair until all those that had sent him were wiped out. It was because European Jews put their trust in atheistic Zionist leaders that these leaders everywhere became the lackeys of the Nazis in all the Ghettos. They were the machinery which served efficiently in the task of keeping the Jews docile and of persuading and coercing them to be sent off to their deaths.
Complete and utter lie. No Torah-leader, including the Satmar Rebbe zatzal, ever cooperated with the Nazis in the destruction machinery. At the Kastner trial, on the other hand, it was revealed that the Zionist leaders in Hungary, in cooperation with the world Zionist leaders, had betrayed the Jewish masses and had prevented them from taking steps to save themselves by flight over the nearby border. At the same trial it was also revealed that Joel Brand, the emissary who went to meet the Zionist leaders, in Turkey and Palestine, to plead for a relatively small ransom fund to save many Jews from annihilation, was deceived by the chief Zionist leaders and was maneuvered by their trickery into a British prison, where he languished in despair until all those that had sent him were wiped out. It was because European Jews put their trust in atheistic Zionist leaders that these leaders everywhere became the lackeys of the Nazis in all the Ghettos. They were the machinery which served efficiently in the task of keeping the Jews docile and of persuading and coercing them to be sent off to their deaths.
בס''ד
You mean the Satmar "rebbe" wasn't on the Kastner Judenrat train? You mean the Satmar "rebbe" warned his followers to leave Hungary the way he did? You are the one who is lying - to yourself.
You can't blame the Satmar Rebbe for taking the Kastner train to save his life. If someone was in a fire about to be burned to death, G-d forbid, should that person refuse to accept the help of a Christian fireman because he believes in Yoshka?A person in his shoes should have stuck with his people... Yes he should be blamed for leaving.
It was not only an attack on Chabad...
A person in his shoes should have stuck with his people... Yes he should be blamed for leaving.
Dead wrong. The Chasam Sofer writes that if a Tzaddik finds himself and his flock in danger, he should escape and pray for his flock while he is out of the danger, in which case his efforts will be more effective min hashamayim than had he stayed with them.
In June 1944, Teitelbaum became one of a group of some 1,685 people whose release from Hungary was negotiated with Adolf Eichmann by the Zionist leader Rudolf Kastner, who had negotiated the escape of a small group of people who were mostly Zionists but also included a number of prominent rabbis and wealthy Jews who, it is claimed, paid an exorbitant fee to be on the rescue train, nicknamed "Noah's ark". Teitelbaum and his wife were passengers on the Kastner train bound for Switzerland, which was re-routed to Bergen-Belsen for six months before being allowed to continue to the Swiss border as originally planned.Does the Chasam Sofer say his wife should also escape... Personally speaking it really looks like he was really only concerned about his own hide.
בס''ד
You mean the Satmar "rebbe" wasn't on the Kastner Judenrat train? You mean the Satmar "rebbe" warned his followers to leave Hungary the way he did? You are the one who is lying - to yourself.
בס''ד
You mean the Satmar "rebbe" wasn't on the Kastner Judenrat train? You mean the Satmar "rebbe" warned his followers to leave Hungary the way he did? You are the one who is lying - to yourself.
Zionism itself caused the Holocaust, as Rav Hutner explained.There must be some crazy reasoning behind that.... Do you honestly believe that?
The Jews of Europe didn't know what was in store for them. Hindsight is 20/20 but most Polish and even Hungarian Jews did not know the impending doom that was coming. This is evident from Elie Wiesel's description of the complete surprise by the Hungarians when they were invaded.We don't really care for Elie the Weasel here at JTF.
That must be some explenation]There must be some crazy reasoning behind that.... Do you honestly believe that?
You can't blame the Satmar Rebbe for taking the Kastner train to save his life. If someone was in a fire about to be burned to death, G-d forbid, should that person refuse to accept the help of a Christian fireman because he believes in Yoshka?are you a troll or just f**king retarded?
are you a troll or just f**king retarded?
There is a world of difference between accepting help from people of another religion and selling out his people and letting them die so that one can live.
If you choose your life over others... YOU ARE A SELL OUT!!
Zionism itself caused the Holocaust, as Rav Hutner explained.
Nobody disagrees that believing a dead man to be moshiach is wrong. I clearly state this in all my postings that I do not believe Rebbe was Moshiach or that he will be Moshiach (any more than my Father will be Moshiach). I just got off the phone with another of my Rabbis who was the Rabbi who initially reached out to me when I made Teshuva and brought me to more Orthodox Jewish observance. He would be considered Modern Orthodox by most people. I asked him where he stood on this issue and he said he was concerned about these beliefs. He said that he has had experience with some Chabad who do believe these beliefs. He said that they are wrong to believe this. But in the end he said that the Chabad organization does not teach this, and most of the new Rabbis don't have this belief, and overall Chabad does a lot of good.
MODERATOR Posted - 18 April 2001 20:34
NOTE: We have received tons of messages from Lubavitchers disassociating themselves from the Meshichistin and the Yechi sayers.
They would like everyone to know that not all Lubavitchers believe the Rebbe is alive or even that the Rebbe is Moshiach.
Many of them say that the problem is, due to lack of leadership in Chabad, everyone is free to say they represent Lubavitch.
But these people want everyone to know that not all Lubavitchers approve of what the Meshichistin or the Yechi'ers are doing.
All those who have sent such posts, please accept this message as a communal post for all of you.
Thanks.
From one of the sites which you appear to have plagiarized:
http://vintagefrumteens.blogspot.com/2007/01/lubavitch-yechi-5.html
You also copied most of that posting from http://vintagefrumteens.blogspot.com/2007/01/lubavitch-reasons-for-strong-opposition.html
At this point I think you are just looking for attention... I think that most people here have formed a negative opinion of you 'jewishwarrior'... You are beating a dead horse at this point..
What are you talking about... Going back to attacking Chabad... We have said that none of us here believe that Rebbe was Moshiach. I have never heard a Chabad Rabbi teach this... So why do you continue to intimate that this is accepted belief..
I believe Jesus is the Messiah, he is actually my gggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggreat grand father!
No chasidus or any other branch of Orthodox Judaism ever considered their rebbe "the essence and self of G-d in a body" except Chabad since the days of Rabbi MM Scheneerson. Even Chabad was a regular acceptable brand of chassidus until the last 50 years (it started having some issues with the previous rebbe, rayatz, but nothing close to the avodah zorah that we find in it today) .
בס''דHehehe, kind of sensed what would follow:
By the Zionists? Yismach Moshe?
Wow, we have a lot of nutjobs joining this forum lately.
You are a "jewishwarrior"? Hahahaha. You anti-Zionist Satmar cowards couldn't fight your way out of a paper bag.
During the holocaust, the Satmar "rebbe" saved his own tuchus by making a deal with Rudolph Kastner, the head of the Hungarian Judenrat. The "rebbe" got on the notorious Judenrat train out of Hungary together with his family leaving behind hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews who were then murdered by the Germans yimach shmam. The "rebbe" never even warned his own followers to leave Hungary or to resist the Nazis to save their lives. Most of those who trusted the "rebbe" ended up in the Nazi gas chambers and ovens.
Have mercy... Have we turned into a Chabad website? What ever happened to saving Israel and America?
That reply had nothing to do with my comment. You are just trolling. Go get some exercise and take out your frustrations in some other way
"Who fulfills Mitzvos and is an Apikores? Those who blame the Gedolei Yisroel for the holocaust, and also all those who celebrate Yom Haatzmaut" --- Chazon Ish
Zionism itself caused the Holocaust, as Rav Hutner explained.
And that doesn't even mention beforehand when people were hearing about the war around them and what nazis were doing to Jews elsewhere, he told them it was forbidden to leave to go to the "evil" places America or Israel.
Dead wrong. The Chasam Sofer writes that if a Tzaddik finds himself and his flock in danger, he should escape and pray for his flock while he is out of the danger, in which case his efforts will be more effective min hashamayim than had he stayed with them.
From one of the sites which you appear to have plagiarized:
http://vintagefrumteens.blogspot.com/2007/01/lubavitch-yechi-5.html
You also copied most of that posting from http://vintagefrumteens.blogspot.com/2007/01/lubavitch-reasons-for-strong-opposition.html
At this point I think you are just looking for attention... I think that most people here have formed a negative opinion of you 'jewishwarrior'... You are beating a dead horse at this point..
The Satmar Rebbe did not sell out his people, that was the evil zionist Kastner and the rest of his Zionist friends.
"Torah is greater than priesthood and kingship, for kingship is acquired with 30 qualities, priesthood is acquired with 24, whereas the Torah is acquired with 48 ways. These are: ... (48) saying a statement in the name of the one who said it. For we have learned that anyone who says a statement in the name of the one who said it brings redemption to the world, as the verse says 'And Esther said to the King in the name of Mordechai' (Esther 2:22)."
This week's quality is the final of the 48 Ways. The meaning is that one must properly attribute the teachings he has learned from others. He must cite the correct source of everything he quotes, not taking undue credit for himself. This seems to follow the theme of the previous quality -- "precisely quoting what one has heard." There the focus was more on the content of the quote -- accurately quoting what one has learned from parents and teachers and passing it along to the next generation. Here, however, the stress is on personal humility and intellectual honesty. Besides preserving our tradition, we must be selfless about it, giving credit where it is due -- to our own teachers who selflessly passed the Torah along to us.
The twin themes which emerge are equally critical. Our Torah must be authentic. Yet It must not only be accurate. It must be pristine as well -- free from the selfishness and smallness which so often corrupt the noble efforts of man. In a way the Torah is our own possession, and as we discussed last week, each Jew relates to it in his or her own unique way -- finding his or her own personal fulfillment. Yet at the same time, we see the Torah as our precious and sacred charge, one we must safeguard and preserve to the letter. We must never allow personal preferences or foreign influences to enter our relationship with or understanding of the Torah. Thus, the Sages exhort us to accurately and selflessly study, faithfully maintaining all that was handed to us, so that the Torah in all its purity and sanctity be preserved for all future generations.
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Rav Elchanon Wasserman HY"D never abandoned his flock. He was murdered along with them and died al kiddush Hashem. You bring empty minded quotes to support your propaganda, but people have brains and can think on their own. There's more than one way to look at many subjects, and certainly only a fool would look at things the way you do on some of these issues.
lol, you mean the "evil zionist" that saved your rebbe's behind?
nowhere does it say that just because the nations have violated their oath, that the jews may violate theirs. this is a complete fabrication by the zionists.Since this is a Kahanist web site, I will translate a bit from chapter 26 of Rabbi Kahane's Ohr Haraayon.
In a practical way, the three oaths are only two for Israel and one for the nations of the world and I suspect that little of those that rely on the words of the Gemara really saw the topic and learned it. Now these are the words of the Gemara, For what are these 3 oaths? One, that Israel should not rise up like a wall {used to block invaders} (Rashi: together, with a mighty hand") and one that the Holy One Blessed be He adjured Israel not to rebel against the nations and one that the Holy One Blessed be He adjured the nations not to subjugate Israel too much and in the Midrash it was stated Shir Hashirim Rabba 2:1{7}: Rabbi Yosi Bar Chanina says: there are two oaths here, one for Israel and one for the nations of the world. He swore to Israel that they would not rebel against the yoke of the kingdoms [Rabbi Yosi Bar Chanina saw the two oaths for Israel in tractate Ketuvot, as if they are one, in a practical way]; and he swore to the kingdoms that they wouldn't make their yoke to hard on Israel. For if they make their yoke to hard upon Israel they cause the end time to come before its time.Rabbi Kahane, then goes on to say outright that the oaths restraining Israel are dependant upon the oaths restraining the Nations of the World. And he goes on to provide many examples in Biblical history where the Nation of Israel was freed from the oaths restraining them because the other side broke their oath first.
In vol. 231 of Das Yidishe Tagblat from 9 Tamuz 1939, R. Elchonon Wasserman said the following when asked about the terror methods of the Zionists:
Yes, Kastner was an evil zionist. Read about it in "Perfidy," by the Zionist Ben Hecht. He details in that book the infamous trial, where it was proven that Kastner and his fellow Zionists collaborated with the Germans yemach Shm'am to murder 1 million innocent Hungarian Jews.
To Jewishwarrior who said: Since this is a Kahanist web site, I will translate a bit from chapter 26 of Rabbi Kahane's Ohr Haraayon. Rabbi Kahane, then goes on to say outright that the oaths restraining Israel are dependant upon the oaths restraining the Nations of the World. And he goes on to provide many examples in Biblical history where the Nation of Israel was freed from the oaths restraining them because the other side broke their oath first.
Rabbi Kahane is not the only one to say this idea that the oaths are dependent one on another.
In the writings of the disciple of the Vilna Gaon, Rabbi Yisrael of Shklov (Baal Peat Hashulchan) he explained in one of his letters that he was involved in a settlement movement of the land of Israel, because, the nations of the world had broken their oath and this therefore frees Israel from their oath. See also the 2nd commentary of the Vilna Gaon, to shir hashirim, where he seems to allude also to this idea (although less explicitly). If this is not enough for you Jewishwarrior I could provide you with more famous rabbis who make this point.
Outright lie. The GRA in Shir Hashirim states that you can't build the Bais Hamikdash because you violate the Oaths, but he does not say that nothing else does. On the contrary, this GRA refutes those Zionists who say the Oaths are not binding.
::)
I'm already aware of this. Kastner was an evil erev rav nazi collaborator. You keep telling me to read things I already know. When the details came out, an enraged Israeli Jew killed Kastner.
But he is the one who saved your rebbe. And he is the reason that satmar communities exist in the world today. Kind of messed up origins wouldn't you say? Your rebbe made a deal with such an evil person, and together they hid the truth from the rest of the Hungarian Jews about what the nazis were going to do to them. Essentially sealing their fate and sending them to their graves.
That being said, although I do not like what was done, I am not judging your rebbe, just stating what happened. But I am judging you.
To Jewishwarrior who said: Since this is a Kahanist web site, I will translate a bit from chapter 26 of Rabbi Kahane's Ohr Haraayon. Rabbi Kahane, then goes on to say outright that the oaths restraining Israel are dependant upon the oaths restraining the Nations of the World. And he goes on to provide many examples in Biblical history where the Nation of Israel was freed from the oaths restraining them because the other side broke their oath first.
Rabbi Kahane is not the only one to say this idea that the oaths are dependent one on another.
In the writings of the disciple of the Vilna Gaon, Rabbi Yisrael of Shklov (Baal Peat Hashulchan) he explained in one of his letters that he was involved in a settlement movement of the land of Israel, because, the nations of the world had broken their oath and this therefore frees Israel from their oath. See also the 2nd commentary of the Vilna Gaon, to shir hashirim, where he seems to allude also to this idea (although less explicitly). If this is not enough for you Jewishwarrior I could provide you with more famous rabbis who make this point.
The Satmar Rebbe did not hide anything, as he, like all of the rest of the Jews at that time, did not know what was in store for them. The evil Zionist Kastner and his Zionist henchmen, though, did, and murdered 1 million Hungarian Jews in cold blood.
The GRA told his followers to go settle Eretz Yisrael. Your arguments don't make sense.
He did no such thing.
As the Brisker Rav said, the creation of the State of Israel was the greatest success that the Satan has had since the Egel itself. He added that the State of Israel was a specific punishment for the sins of this generation. In particular, he said that after WWII there was such an eis ratzon in the heavens, that the redemption could have come, had klall yisroel turned to hashem and asked for the real moshiach. Instead, the Jews desired a State to protect them from future holocausts and to give them whatever national identitiy or redemption or independence they felt they were lacking. So instad fo Moshiach, he said, the ais ratzon was poisoned and the State of Israel came instead.
There were frum Jews who worshipped the Egel, and there are frum Jews who are Zionists; there were frum Jews who bowed to the Baal, and who believe in the State of Israel. The Torah view is that Zionism is another in a long line of idolatrous movements that counted among their adherents throngs of frum Jews, including some big talmidei chachamim.
He did no such thing.
Since in the past I heard that members of Neteurei Karta were extolling the virtues of Rabbi Y. Bardaki and his Rabbi and Father in-law was Rabbi Yisrael of Shklov (author of Peat Hashulchan, and one of the founders of the old Yishuv), I will specifically bring from the words of Rabbi Yisrael of Shklov.
The quote, G-d willing, is from what I found in the book, Geula B'derech Hateva page 9, by the religious historian, Aryeh Morgenstern, and his source is - Yaari, Igrote Eretz Yisrael [the letters of the land of Israel] page 352.
Now here are the words of Rabbi Yisrael of Shklov: "... Now if he was a bit incensed on account of the sin of his nation, they [the Gentiles] added more than this ... their harsh yoke and the harshness of the subjugation, and they transgressed their oath that G-d our L-rd had administered to them that they should not increase the harshness of the subjugation of Israel so as not to hasten the time of the end..."
Now also the Rabbi of Rabbi Yisrael of Shklov, namely, the Vilna Gaon in his second commentary to Shir Hashirim, chapter 2 verse 7 wrote similar to this.
Now this is a quote of the Vilna Gaon: "Now the matter is as our sages of blessed of memory said, three oaths, the Holy One Blessed Be He adjured, etc. That they should not bring the time of end near by their torture of Israel... and he asks [of the Gentiles] not to force the time of the end until he wants it by virtue of love itself, as stated in the midrash of Bechukotai, it is a parable to a king that swore to throw a giant rock on his son and afterwards regretted it and grinded it into small pieces, [ to throw it ] in order to fulfill his oath. {end of quote}
Now another proof that according to the Vilna Gaon "I adjure you O daughters of Jerusalem" applies to the nations I found in the second commentary of the Vilna Gaon to Shir Hashirim 3:10 "the midst of it, being inlaid with love from the daughters of the Jerusalem - that all the nations are called the daughters of Jerusalem."
Also Rabbi Shlomo Kluger and Rabbi Hillel Kolemayer (a disciple of the Chatam Sofer) established that the 3 oaths are like a package deal. That nullification of the oath by the Gentiles also nullifies our oath (see Hatekufa Hagdola of Rabbi Menachem Kasher, page 570, for sources).
In the book Otzrote Hagra Ubait Midrasho page 62 on the topic of the Temple, the author brought from the book Hagaon Hachasid page 247 "And the Genius Rabbi Chaim of Volozhin said in the name of the Vilna Gaon: "If we will act like the Maapilim and offer up just once on the Temple Mount the Tamid sacrifice, behold that this already will be the redemption:".
That is to say, that seemingly, either the time of the nullification of the three oaths has already arrived in the matter of the Temple or that at least for the Temple Mount and the offering of sacrifices, the time of the nullification of the oaths has already arrived.
They went to Israel. They spoke about it and wrote about it. Their descendants live there and attest to this. Cut-and-paste doesn't help you.
The Torah according to your twisted Rabbis thinking.... Good thing you are a minority..
PS: What Navi interpreted these events as you suggest? Did the Brisker Rav consider himself a prophet?
The Torah according to your twisted Rabbis thinking.... Good thing you are a minority..
PS: What Navi interpreted these events as you suggest? Did the Brisker Rav consider himself a prophet?
The Torah according to your twisted Rabbis thinking.... Good thing you are a minority..
PS: What Navi interpreted these events as you suggest? Did the Brisker Rav consider himself a prophet?
They went to Israel. They spoke about it and wrote about it. Their descendants live there and attest to this. Cut-and-paste doesn't help you.
quote from http://www.vilnagaon.org/mount/letter4.html#10 (http://www.vilnagaon.org/mount/letter4.html#10)
The GRA certainly did not hold by mass emigration to Eretz Yisroel , for that would be against the Oaths, which the GRA himself quotes in his Kabbalah as the reason why we do not build a Bais Hamikdash in golus (commnentary to Tikunei Zohar).Not correct!
"I asked my Rabbi, if there was the possibility in a naturalistic way to transfer all of Israel at one time to the land of Israel, how should this be done? Behold there will stand before us, many difficult questions regarding the arrangement of the yishuv. After much investigation into this question, our Rabbi answered us: "If it would be possible to transfer to the land of Israel 600,000 at one time, we must do so immediately, for this number of 600,000 is a powerful and whole force to overcome the S"M in the gates of Jerusalem and then the full redemption will be completed with the clouds of heaven, in a miraculous way".For those, who might raise a question, by the standards of the ancients, airplanes are a miracle. Rambam in his Shmoneh Prakim says that one of things that is impossible is a ship of iron that flies in the air. Something that in our times happens all the time.
Complete lies. Hatekufah Hegedolah is a known forgery by the infamous forger Menachem Kasher.First of all this lashon hara.
Quote from Jewishwarrior:Not correct!
In Kol Hator, written by a disciple of the Gra (and so affirmed the world's biggest expert on the Gra, Rabbi Yitzchak Shlomo Zilberman, z"l that it is from the Gra) the disciple talks about a conversation that he had with the Gra (Vilna Gaon). For those, who might raise a question, by the standards of the ancients, airplanes are a miracle. Rambam in his Shmoneh Prakim says that one of things that is impossible is a ship of iron that flies in the air. Something that in our times happens all the time.
What are you talking about... Going back to attacking Chabad... We have said that none of us here believe that Rebbe was Moshiach. I have never heard a Chabad Rabbi teach this... So why do you continue to intimate that this is accepted belief..
The not sleeping in a Sukkah is particularly well-known by Torah leaders as a Chabad violation of Halacha because it is the most public of all the transgressions. Writes Rav Shach zatzal:
"They [Lubavitch] are far from the opinions of our holy Torah. For instance, they currently publicized [for people] to undo a Mitzvah Aseh of sleeping in the Sukkah with a Dvar Torah full of nothingness, nonsense, and ignorance." (Letters, IV:349).
1) The truth is there was no interdependent "deal" between us and the nations - all of the Oaths were made for our sake, not the sake of the nations. There was no mutual agreement, and so no reciprocality. This is the simplest Zionist falsification to dispute, since the Poskim and Gedolim who applied the Oaths throughout history, did so despite the fact that the gentiles violated theirs. The Gemora itself applies the Oaths to the Evil Empire of Bavel, which certainly violated the Oaths.
2) Those "opinions" are just the Zionists trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. They are proven wrong from the fact that Egypt surely violated the Oath when they tortured and killed us for centuries. Yet the Bnei Efriam were killed in the desert as a punishment for violating the Oath by leaving Egypt before Hashem said to.
3) The Medrash Aichah says clearly that the Romans violated their Oath, yet the generation of Bar Kochba was punished and Chazal say because they violated the Oaths.
Shevet Efraim left Egypt in violation of the Oaths. Egypt surely violated their Oath when they tortured Jews for centuries. Yet Ephrain, Chazal say, were all hunted down and killed in the desert for violating their Oath by leaving Egypt early.
The Oaths are brought down l'halachah in Rishonim and Achronim as viable and very real.
Zionism itself is avodah zorah, and as Rav ELchonon Wasserman said, "Zionism is idolatry and so religious Zionism is just idolatry coupled with religion"
The Satmar Rebbe did not sell out his people, that was the evil zionist Kastner and the rest of his Zionist friends.
בס''ד
Here this evil heretic openly calls for the destruction of Israel and says that we are forbidden to have a Jewish state:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBUm1fyCXAE
This is the worst possible treason. Asher Meza שם רשעים ירקב literally makes up his own religion and calls it "Judaism".
The Vilna Gaon?!? The Vilna Gaon told his students to make aliyah at a time when Jews were literally being slaughtered in the land of Israel. The Vilna Gaon was the ultimate Zionist. In fact, many of the early Jewish inhabitants of the Holy Land were his students who risked their lives to fulfill the mitzvah of aliyah which is equal to all the other mitzvot.
Zionism itself is avodah zorah, and as Rav ELchonon Wasserman said, "Zionism is idolatry and so religious Zionism is just idolatry coupled with religion"
Well maybe my Chabad Rabbi is special because he doesn't suggest that we violate any minhag which we have from our families. And it is a custom of our family to sleep in the sukkah if possible.
Well maybe my Chabad Rabbi is special because he doesn't suggest that we violate any minhag which we have from our families. And it is a custom of our family to sleep in the sukkah if possible.
the problem is that our Gedolim saw, even more than 40 years ago, based on the direction the last Lubavitcher Rebbe was taking his Chasidim, that these Meshichists and Yechiniks would be here. In other words, they saw problems in Lubavitch that they knew would lead to this kind of craziness.You know what? I follow Chabad! And it was no Chabad Rebbe that convinced me I was going down the right path! It was from some where you would not understand, beings all you do is attack other good humans! Keep believing your way is the only way!
The Brisker Rav ZT"L, after looking at the very first Drasha the Lubavitcher Rebbe gave, stated clearly that from there you can see that Meshichist craziness will come. At the time, people laughed and said "sinas chinam!", but he saw correctly, as we see today.
The Brisker Rav blamed the Rebbe himself for instigating these problems, as well as others. Other Gedolim agreed with him. This is why:
Nobody is questioning the holiness of Chabad Chasidus. The issue here is totally different, namely, the new innovations to and changes in Chasidus that Lubavitch instituted in the past generation that are not part of their own Chabad traditions, nor any traditions in the Jewish religion, Chassidish or not. These innovations and changes are what led to the debacle that we are seeing today, and that is what was predicted by our gedolim a generation ago.
The reason that otherwise reasonable people can have such a slanted perspective on Judaism -- the same religion that everyone else in then world looks at so differently -- is because they were taught a very different picture of what a Rebbe is, what Chasidus is, and what Chabad itself is, than the rest of the world. To people who have been taught this way all their lives, its no big deal if someone says the Rebbe is Moshiach, or perhaps even that the Rebbe is alive.
But the question is, why out of all the Orthodox Jewish groups in the entire world, did this stuff pop out of Chabad? The answer cannot be merely that "Chabad accepts everyone", even people who are off their rocker, which is the answer I have heard more than once, because among the meshichistin are very respected Chabad rabbis, Roshei Yeshivas, and others considered authorities, not weirdos.
Only in Chabad will you find so many Rabbonim espousing ideas that every high school kid can tell you is antithetical to Torah. How can this happen?
The fact that so many educated people ONLY IN CHABAD can honestly think that this is Torah means that there was something seriously wrong with their education. No Chasid, Rabbi, or Rosh Yeshiva in Chabad represents Chabad, but the point is they represent victims of Chabad.
How a mess of such great magnitutde can afflict such a great number of otherwise reasonable and learned people is a question that needs to be addressed. There are two issues here: The Rebbe's own teachings, such as not to sleep in a Sukkah and that a Rebbe is G-d in a body is an issue in itself. The second issue is the damage that the Chabad derech has caused to many of its Chasidim. Part of the damage is Meshichism.
Ephraim,
I know where you are coming from. But I think such language is not warranted {although at first I would have responded as you are now}. After all these 1000s of messages it is clear where this guy is coming from. If we let this issue go he will have to move on also. He has virtually copied and pasted all the information concerning the conflict against Chabad. I understand the concern because we should not put faith in a false messiah. This has been a danger for the Jewish people for many millenia.
The fact is that there are some Chabad followers who have put their faith, wrongly, in the Rebbe. By doing so they violate commandments of the Torah. I admit my MO (Modern Orthodox) Rabbi has said he encountered certain Chabad groups who actually insert the Rebbe into the prayerbook {our prayers have been written for 1000 years by the Men of the Great Assembly}. Anyone who is involved in such a Chabad group should speak up {if possible} against it, or leave the congregation.
I just hope that this thread dies down soon and we can move on to important issues. We are not going to suddenly turn anti-zionist because of what this guy is writing. I am strengthened in my learning in the name of Rabbi Kahane by reading this anti-zionist tripe...
The Satmar Rebbe ZT"L would have been a natural ally to Chabad. The vehement anti-Zionism that Satmar espouses is shared by Chabad maybe more than any other Chasidus. In the recently published "Igros Maharit", a letter signed by dozens of Hungraian Rabbonim before the war against Zionism, including Satmar, uses as its main authority the Lubavitcher Rebbe Rashab! All the Hungarian Rabbonim declared that we must follow what the Lubavitcher Rebbe Rashab said!
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.
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The only question is, what caused otherwise intelligent and reasonable people to go so bananas in regard to religion? The answer is, this is precisely what the Torah leaders were warning us about, the past 40 years. They told us that the new innovations of Chabad were poison, and many did not believe it. But now we see the casualties of it - and so anybody can now see the extent of the poisonousness that we were warned about, way back when.
when bochurim from the Yeshiva asked him about learning Sifrei Chabad he said ... nowadays we have to be very careful because there are among the Lubavitchers today those who twist the Torah, and we have to be careful not to fall into their trap ... and therefore, you should learn Tanya only as much as other Chassidishe Seforim, and not make a unique project of it."
because there are among the Lubavitchers today those who twist the Torah,
The fact that this so-called Jewish Warrior said the Holocaust was brought on by Zionism is enough to make me want to ban him. However, to be fair. I think I'll put him in the Time Out Corner first.
The Satmar Rebbe ZT"L would have been a natural ally to Chabad. The vehement anti-Zionism that Satmar espouses is shared by Chabad maybe more than any other Chasidus.
Just give it up... nobody is reading this stuff anymore. You made your point...
If otherwise reasonable, intelligent, G-d fearing Jews, who learn torah, daven, and try to keep the mitzvos, can be made to have such repulsive beliefs (such as the "I asked the Rebbe" thing), the destructiveness of the poison that could have caused this must have been very strong indeed.
Please, please, think about what you are doing. Do not just blindly follow your "crowd". I understand how difficult it was to lose your beloved rebbe, but the torah of hashem still lives on. The 613 Mitzvos are still here. Drop the baggage, please, and if you need a Rebbe, find one. There are many out there for you. You do not have to hold on to ghosts.
Please understand that this is not written out of any animosity. You are a Jew and we are together in this. When you go off, we all suffer, and we are all pained. You will be accepted as an equal in any frum circles if you want, as long as you drop the anti-Torah beliefs.
Everywhere else, Jews are taught to bring Nachas to Hashem. In Chabad, the goal of Mitzvos is to bring Nachas Ruach to the Rebbe. Rav Shach wrote that this is part of the Avodah Zarah of these people.
To say that the reason you are behaving like Jews is to bring Nachas Ruach to the Rebbe is disgusting and idolatry, as Rav Shach writes. Especially when telling this to little children, the message that "You are doing Mitzvos to being Nachas to the rebbe" is total avodah zarah.
what CHabad does today is not the same as was ever done. When someone used a message form CHumash or a Sefer as a "gorel" of sorts, they were not communicating with the dead author of the sefer. If they used a Tehillim, they did not believe they were "asking Dovid HaMelech". It was merely a sign from Shamayim, and as we explained before, you hav eto know how to use it.
But in any case, NEVER would anyone "communicate" with a dead Rebbe or any other author by reading from a Sefer. That is a totally psycho concept with no source except voodoo supersition, incorporated into Yiddishkeit by Chabad.
And remember, this has not been done until after the Rebbe died. It is clearly neurotic to believe that you are still talking to your Rebbe. To be neurotic itself is not a religion problem, but when you claim that Torah sources support and even encourage what is really a neurosis, and you have people make decisions based on that nonsense, you have a case of corrupting the Torah.
It is typical of off-the-derech movements to compare their deviant actions to legitimate ones that look similar, but are in reality not at all the same. This is an example. Getting a message from a dead author is not done in our religion, has zero source, and is typical of the non-Torah beliefs that have infiltrated into contemporary Chabad "Chasidus" (sic).
Nobody prays to dead rabbis as far as I know, necromancy is forbidden.:::D :clap: :P
I'm on that Zionism thing there, you know, the one you hate so. Where in your twisted mind do you get off that Jews living in the land of Israel is against Torah???? What about the Jews that lived there before the state of Israel, were they suddenly pure, but the second the state came into being, poof they're sinners now???
Nobody prays to dead rabbis as far as I know, necromancy is forbidden.
I'm on that Zionism thing there, you know, the one you hate so. Where in your twisted mind do you get off that Jews living in the land of Israel is against Torah???? What about the Jews that lived there before the state of Israel, were they suddenly pure, but the second the state came into being, poof they're sinners now???
Saying shlita on a dead person is based on a twisting of the Torah, which is prohibited halachically.
Also, as we saw, pointing out a specific someone as the Moshiach if he is not violates the Oaths that G-d gave us to make sure we do not begin the Geulah proess until its proper time time. The penalty, by the way, for violating these oaths, is that Jews will be "hunted down like animals in the field". And since the "Rebbe = Moshiach" is also based on twisted Torah sources, it, too involves the same halachic prohibitions that the "shlita" thing does.
The Satmar Rebbe ZT"L was vehemently opposed to Lubavitch. He said that after he's done with exposing Zionism, his next project is to write a Sefer exposing Lubavitch. In his Divrei Yoel (Tzav) he calls them - including the Rebbe - "idiots" (tipshim) for the idea that because Moshiach told the Baal Shem Tov that in his generation that the spreading of Chasidus is what is needed to bring Moshiach, that today, in our generation, the same thing applies.
This, of course, is the Lubavitcher Rebbe's main reason for his Kiruv project. That since the Baal Shem Tov was told that spreading Chasidus would bring Moshaich, so we have to teach Tanya to all the Jews in the world and then Moshiach will come today. Oy. Is there any quesiton why Lubavitch was so opposed by a great Tzadik like that if they have such ideas?? "Tipshim" he calls them. And that's not the worst thing he had to say about contemporary Chabad.
He told the Bochurim in his Yeshiva that they may learn Tanya - for it is a holy sefer - but nowadays they have to be very careful since the Lubavitchers today twist the Tanya into ideas that are similar to Zionism (i.e. Meshichism, which, like Zionism, is the ushering in of Geulah behaviors before the proper time).
I assume the Lubavitcher Rebbe qualifies as "knowledgable" to you, and he has already answered for instance why Lubavitch doesnt sleep in a Sukkah. The reason is because if youre Chabad you have Tzar that you dont have Tzar that youre not on the level of the Mittleler Rebeb who did have Tzar when sleeping in the Sukah. And thats true whether the chosid knows he's b'tzar or not! I am not making this up. It's in Likutei Sichos, and the details were quoted above.
For shalosh seudos, the reason they dont wash is because they want to imitate the previous rebbes who couldnt eat during shalosh seudos, and that qualifies them as exempt like a choleh, even though they dont feel any pain at all.
And he also answered why Lubavitchers ask a Rebbe to intercede for them to Hashem, and that is because askign somethign from a Rebbe is not interceding but going directly to G-d since a Rebbe is G-d in a body. So much for "answers". We have them already. It's because of these answers given by the Rebbe himself - not the questions - that Chabad is considered off.
And even though inside Chabad they claim to be following the Baal Shem Tov's derech, that is looked at the same as when Modern Orthodoxy says they are following Rav SR Hirsch or Rav YY Weinberg, or when Philip Berg says he's following Rav Shimon bar Yochai.
This does not mean all of the deviant movements are equally messed up, but it does mean that internally, they all do things against the Torah and then try to say they're following a legitimate Torah opinion, when the facts show that they do not.
Lubavitch is perceived as just another wrongheaded movement with bad beliefs, many of which have been listed in posts above. They have no more connection to the Baal Shem Tov than Modern Orthodoxy has to the Rambam, even though they both claim to be following them.
If you can show me where I am wrong then please feel free to do so, but neither the "shluchim" nor anyone else including the Lubavitcher Rebbe has come close to defending the new Chabad behaviors in the past generation. Sorry.
When will this troll be banned. He keeps posting the same thing over and over. Is there any good in anything which he has written? He has copied and pasted vast volumes of a topic which everyone is aware of. Either you accept this guys interpretation, or you reject it. I personally am in the camp which rejects his complete opinion based on my experience with Chabad Rabbis. I think all here at JTF are aware of the conflict and can decide for themselves how to proceed.
I think this thread should be locked, or the troll banned...
antijewish warrior is the old troll wonga. he used the exact sentence about the supposed quote by rabbi Shach about Chabad. This thread is now 10 pages long. why do you bother feeding this twisted hater ?