JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Allen-T on June 29, 2007, 07:12:30 AM
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I have made one thing clear to the admins and mods yesterday. That from this point AFTER I QUIT, I was planning to do whatever is necessary to make sure that the Christians in JTF know exactly what they are dealing with concerning Torah Judaism's view on proslytizing. I fully expected to meet with opposition about this. At 5:20PM or so when I attempted to log into the Forum a message said "You are banned until you calm down". I said nothing to give any indication that I needed to calm down, and I interpreted that as an attempt to cut my ability to communicate with members off. So I posted that video. I have no intention of smearing JTF. I only intend to communicate to other REAL Christians about what is going on. If that bothers you, deal with it. You are hypocrites. You hate that I speak to Jews about Jesus, but YOU want to deceive weak Christians with a bogus message that Jews don't need Jesus? Think about that. Later in the evening yesterday I saw that I was unbanned again. I should have taken that video down but I didn't have time. I will remove it as soon as I am done here. BUT I WAS BANNED FOR A PERIOD YESTERDAY, and anyone who says otherwise is the LIAR. I am now completely disgusted with what I just read on the following thread; http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=6243.0 I am completely finished here, for good, permanently. The reason that I removed the videos from the channel is because as I said, I interpreted the banning as an attempt to stop me from speaking. Figuring that the only means of communicating with Forum members was the Youtube channel, I made a quick decision to pull down the videos just in case Chaim or Jimmy attempted to shut the account down based on the fact that Chaim owns [probably] the rights to the shows. It was purely to protect myself and my ability to continue to communicate with the other Christians. It was obviously the right choice I see, after viewing the disgusting thread that I mentioned already. I am disgusted beyond words and it is obvious that the leadership will do anything to save face.
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Take a deep breath.
Man, I'm on your side but what you have to realize is that prostletyzing to Jews on a forum for saving Judaism and Israel is NOT a good idea. Yes, you have a right to do so as a Christian but this isn't the place for it. I'm unhappy with a lot of things but there's no need to spread dissent.
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Take a deep breath.
Man, I'm on your side but what you have to realize is that prostletyzing to Jews on a forum for saving Judaism and Israel is NOT a good idea. Yes, you have a right to do so as a Christian but this isn't the place for it. I'm unhappy with a lot of things but there's no need to spread dissent.
Why would you think prosyltizing is good in any situation? Islamic Jihad expects everyone to observe Islam. So you think it's acceptable for them to prosyltize?
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Take a deep breath.
Man, I'm on your side but what you have to realize is that prostletyzing to Jews on a forum for saving Judaism and Israel is NOT a good idea. Yes, you have a right to do so as a Christian but this isn't the place for it. I'm unhappy with a lot of things but there's no need to spread dissent.
Why would you think prosyltizing is good in any situation? Islamic Jihad expects everyone to observe Islam. So you think it's acceptable for them to prosyltize?
You're not very bright, are you?
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Jews don't need Jesus. How is it YOUR place to say that Jews need Jesus. We have our own faith that you need to respect, and you have a faith that needs to be respected and part of your faith shouldn't include trying to convert Jews to it. How would you like it if I went around telling Christians that Jesus was a fraud and he wasn't a messiah and I proved it with sources from the Bible. I wouldn't go around doing this because I RESPECT Christianity, and it appears that you don't respect Judaism.
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Take a deep breath.
Man, I'm on your side but what you have to realize is that prostletyzing to Jews on a forum for saving Judaism and Israel is NOT a good idea. Yes, you have a right to do so as a Christian but this isn't the place for it. I'm unhappy with a lot of things but there's no need to spread dissent.
Why would you think prosyltizing is good in any situation? Islamic Jihad expects everyone to observe Islam. So you think it's acceptable for them to prosyltize?
Prosyltizing is good if the people who are being converted are heathens or Muslims, but it's not good when it's done to Jews. There are too many of us assimilating and losing our faith for it to be a good thing. If anyone thinks that it's a good idea to prosyltize to Jews and convert all of us then in my book they are no different than Muslims who wish to exterminate all of us as well. They are both threats to the Jewish people.
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Everyone needs to read Chaims letter. It is most improper ( to say the least) to proselytise to jews....he says so. Rabbi Kahane was completely opposed to any non-jew proselytising to jews for sound bible based reasons. If you guys think Chaim, Kahane and every jewish schollar who ever lived is wrong......why be Kahanists?
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Yes but the only reason some people for loss of a better word turned on Allen was his honesty.And yes i'm 100% Jewish as far as i know[we can never be sure of all our ancestors] and i go to an orthodox shul.BTW i don'nt see any Anti JTF video by Allen
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Yes but the only reason some people for loss of a better word turned on Allen was his honesty.And yes i'm 100% Jewish as far as i know[we can never be sure of all are ancestors] and i go to an orthodox shul.BTW i don'nt see any Anti JTF video by Allen
Nobody turned on anyone. Al openly declared his intention to proselytise to jews outside the forum. Honest...Yes? but wrong. Suppose someone declared their intention to turn christians into Hare Krishnas outside the forum........would they just say 'OK, no problem'?
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hari krishna :laugh: i was once at penn station they were banging tambourines and singing,they wanted to give me books i ignored them
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This is a very dangerous lose-lose situation. We are not only losing Allen's support, but we risk losing that of righteous Gentiles who are our closest allies. In the past, Chaim has avoided addressing issues that obviously divide Jews and Christians. No matter how you cut it, they exist. It appears that we have hit one. I'm asking that we all calm down and focus on more important issues such as stopping the expulsion of Jews.
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This is a very dangerous lose-lose situation. We are not only losing Allen's support, but we risk losing that of righteous Gentiles who are our closest allies. In the past, Chaim has avoided addressing issues that obviously divide Jews and Christians. No matter how you cut it, they exist. It appears that we have hit one. I'm asking that we all calm down and focus on more important issues such as stopping the expulsion of Jews.
I agree. But jews, noachides and 90% of christian zionists aren't pushing this. This guy is. The judaism lot have been happy to live and let live but it seems a small minority from the other faith can't live without proselytising to the very people who brought the G_d of Israel to them in the first place. We've got altar boys trying to tell the priests how it all works.
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hari krishna :laugh: i was once at penn station they were banging tambourines and singing,they wanted to give me books i ignored them
:)
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I have to say that if Allen-t tells Christians that JTF will not work with Christians who attempt to missionize Jews, that can only be a good thing.
I thank Allen-t for saying openly that he missionizing Jews, as opposed to John Hagee who lies to Jews and tells them that he doesn't missionize and then tells his followers, "Look, I've been able to get so close to the Jewish community that we can now missionize them easier."
Thanks for being honest, Allen-t.
Feel free to stick by your principles and we will stick to ours.
By the way, for all the Christians who are now complaining about discrimination. Please find me a Christian forum that has non-Chistian moderators. Please, I dare you to find one.
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This isn't a Jewish forum. It's a forum for saving Israel and America from its enemies. I doubt there are any forums on religious Judaism that have non-Jewish moderators, nor should there be.
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You hate that I speak to Jews about Jesus, but YOU want to deceive weak Christians with a bogus message that Jews don't need Jesus? Think about that.
I have thought about it, Allen-T.
You insist that I need Jesus.
As a Jew, I tell you I don't need Jesus.
You won't let it go at that.
You not only insist on trying to convince me that I need Jesus, but you also have taken the position that only 'weak' Christians disagree with your belief that proselytizing Jews is not only acceptable, but should be practiced by all 'strong' or 'true' Christians.
Such a stance is not only demeaning and disrespectful to Jews, it's also reeks of condescension and arrogance towards the Christians that disagree with you.
It's disappointing to see you still don't get it.
Since the philosophical difference you have with JTF's leadership about missionizing Jews apparently can not be overcome, perhaps it is best that you move on.
In light of the valuable contributions you have made here, I wish you the best of luck in all your future endeavors (except for trying to convert Jews).
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This isn't a Jewish forum. It's a forum for saving Israel and America from its enemies. I doubt there are any forums on religious Judaism that have non-Jewish moderators, nor should there be.
Not jewish, ha?
What - prey tell does the 'J' in JTF stand for???? Jambalaya perhaps.
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You hate that I speak to Jews about Jesus, but YOU want to deceive weak Christians with a bogus message that Jews don't need Jesus? Think about that.
I have thought about it, Allen-T.
You insist that I need Jesus.
As a Jew, I tell you I don't need Jesus.
You won't let it go at that.
You not only insist on trying to convince me that I need Jesus, but you also have taken the position that only 'weak' Christians disagree with your belief that proselytizing Jews is not only acceptable, but should be practiced by all 'strong' or 'true' Christians.
Such a stance is not only demeaning and disrespectful to Jews, it's also reeks of condescension and arrogance towards the Christians that disagree with you.
It's disappointing to see you still don't get it.
Since the philosophical difference you have with JTF's leadership about missionizing Jews apparently can not be overcome, perhaps it is best that you move on.
In light of the valuable contributions you have made here, I wish you the best of luck in all your future endeavors (except for trying to convert Jews).
When did I confront you? Can you speak English? How do you equate my personal belief, which has been revealed because of a genuine shot at HONESTY[something Sullivan doesn't know], with my proslytizing to you directly? So here is the problem, you equate my belief with a non existant action?? Now I understand alot of you better. AGAIN, I am not here to proslytize, I am here to defend myself against Sullivan's dirty lies then I am gone. Jimmy, admit you are a liar, delete my account, finished.
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Jews don't need Jesus. How is it YOUR place to say that Jews need Jesus. We have our own faith that you need to respect, and you have a faith that needs to be respected and part of your faith shouldn't include trying to convert Jews to it. How would you like it if I went around telling Christians that Jesus was a fraud and he wasn't a messiah and I proved it with sources from the Bible. I wouldn't go around doing this because I RESPECT Christianity, and it appears that you don't respect Judaism.
and we dont need the talmud, whats your point.
If allen t was continually preaching the gospel on this forum, which IS A POLTICAL MOVEMENT, not to prove which theology is correct.
Now as i have stated, allen t told me to not preach the gospel on this forum, as he new i was a evenagelical born again christian, so i repected that, but if you want me to only preach to non jews, OUTSIDE OF THE FORUM,, then thats ridiculous.
You obviously have no understanding of the what so ever of the new covenant.....
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This isn't a Jewish forum. It's a forum for saving Israel and America from its enemies. I doubt there are any forums on religious Judaism that have non-Jewish moderators, nor should there be.
Not jewish, ha?
What - prey tell does the 'J' in JTF stand for???? Jambalaya perhaps.
Funny how JTF's slogan is "Fighting to save America and Israel from Islamic terrorism!". This is a board for any righteous people who want to help in this cause. Why am I even responding to you? Your posts are about as worthwhile as drek.
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This isn't a Jewish forum. It's a forum for saving Israel and America from its enemies. I doubt there are any forums on religious Judaism that have non-Jewish moderators, nor should there be.
Not jewish, ha?
What - prey tell does the 'J' in JTF stand for???? Jambalaya perhaps.
Funny how JTF's slogan is "Fighting to save America and Israel from Islamic terrorism!". This is a board for any righteous people who want to help in this cause. Why am I even responding to you? Your posts are about as worthwhile as drek.
So answer the question, you moose twit. What's the 'J' stand for????
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This isn't a Jewish forum. It's a forum for saving Israel and America from its enemies. I doubt there are any forums on religious Judaism that have non-Jewish moderators, nor should there be.
Not jewish, ha?
What - prey tell does the 'J' in JTF stand for???? Jambalaya perhaps.
Funny how JTF's slogan is "Fighting to save America and Israel from Islamic terrorism!". This is a board for any righteous people who want to help in this cause. Why am I even responding to you? Your posts are about as worthwhile as drek.
So answer the question, you moose twit. What's the 'J' stand for????
chaim says he welcomes all decent people whom are rightous gentiles.
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This isn't a Jewish forum. It's a forum for saving Israel and America from its enemies. I doubt there are any forums on religious Judaism that have non-Jewish moderators, nor should there be.
Not jewish, ha?
What - prey tell does the 'J' in JTF stand for???? Jambalaya perhaps.
Funny how JTF's slogan is "Fighting to save America and Israel from Islamic terrorism!". This is a board for any righteous people who want to help in this cause. Why am I even responding to you? Your posts are about as worthwhile as drek.
So answer the question, you moose twit. What's the 'J' stand for????
chaim says he welcomes all decent people whom are rightous gentiles.
That's right. But gentiles who attempt the spiritual murder of the jewish people are NOT righteous. They are wicked and evil.
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This isn't a Jewish forum. It's a forum for saving Israel and America from its enemies. I doubt there are any forums on religious Judaism that have non-Jewish moderators, nor should there be.
Not jewish, ha?
What - prey tell does the 'J' in JTF stand for???? Jambalaya perhaps.
Funny how JTF's slogan is "Fighting to save America and Israel from Islamic terrorism!". This is a board for any righteous people who want to help in this cause. Why am I even responding to you? Your posts are about as worthwhile as drek.
So answer the question, you moose twit. What's the 'J' stand for????
chaim says he welcomes all decent people whom are rightous gentiles.
That's right. But gentiles who attempt the spiritual murder of the jewish people are NOT righteous. They are wicked and evil.
As you see it.
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This isn't a Jewish forum. It's a forum for saving Israel and America from its enemies. I doubt there are any forums on religious Judaism that have non-Jewish moderators, nor should there be.
Not jewish, ha?
What - prey tell does the 'J' in JTF stand for???? Jambalaya perhaps.
Funny how JTF's slogan is "Fighting to save America and Israel from Islamic terrorism!". This is a board for any righteous people who want to help in this cause. Why am I even responding to you? Your posts are about as worthwhile as drek.
So answer the question, you moose twit. What's the 'J' stand for????
chaim says he welcomes all decent people whom are rightous gentiles.
That's right. But gentiles who attempt the spiritual murder of the jewish people are NOT righteous. They are wicked and evil.
As you see it.
NO....it's how Torah sees it. How the Rambam sees it. How Rabbi Kahane sees it. How Chaim sees it. How every Torah schollar, orthodox jew, and every bagel shop owner throughout history sees it.
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Folks, can we all please calm down?
Let me just reiterate that I have been very grateful for all Allen has done for us. I tried discussing things with him, and the others involved behind the scenes, and it did not help. So I am very sad to see him go. I actually met Allen and his wife about two months ago at the Israel Day Parade, and they seemed very nice.
In terms of missionizing outside this forum, the mods and admins can't control that, nor would we want to. And I happen to agree that it takes two to tango.
*But* with that being said, I don't think it was the best idea for Allen to openly admit to trying to convert Jews, given what the families of many our American Jewish posters of European ancestry have gone through in the past. Of course, they will be very sensitive about that kind of thing.
Personally, I am grateful to all of our supporters, and people who post on the forum. So can we please just wait and see what Chaim and Jimmy have to say? Like I said in another post, I am not privy to everything that goes on behind the scenes. There may have been more stuff going on.
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This isn't a Jewish forum. It's a forum for saving Israel and America from its enemies. I doubt there are any forums on religious Judaism that have non-Jewish moderators, nor should there be.
Not jewish, ha?
What - prey tell does the 'J' in JTF stand for???? Jambalaya perhaps.
Funny how JTF's slogan is "Fighting to save America and Israel from Islamic terrorism!". This is a board for any righteous people who want to help in this cause. Why am I even responding to you? Your posts are about as worthwhile as drek.
So answer the question, you moose twit. What's the 'J' stand for????
chaim says he welcomes all decent people whom are rightous gentiles.
That's right. But gentiles who attempt the spiritual murder of the jewish people are NOT righteous. They are wicked and evil.
As you see it.
NO....it's how Torah sees it. How the Rambam sees it. How Rabbi Kahane sees it. How Chaim sees it. How every Torah schollar, orthodox jew, and every bagel shop owner throughout history sees it.
So popularity qualifies truth? The acknowlegment by the masses makes it so? That is not an argument, unless you believe American Idol has some great significance. I want to ask you something, and this is an honest question, I don't mean to be cute or off handed. I read on the forum recently that Jews are forced to go to liberal Synagogues if that is all that is in their neighborhood since they cannot drive or handle money on Shabbot. Most real Christians travel to the best Bible teaching church they can find because good teaching is a must. I live in Brooklyn, but I worship in Manhattan. What effect do you suppose that has on the percentages of Biblically literate Jews verses Christians?
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Folks, can we all please calm down?
Let me just reiterate that I have been very grateful for all Allen has done for us. I tried discussing things with him, and the others involved behind the scenes, and it did not help. So I am very sad to see him go. I actually met Allen and his wife about two months ago at the Israel Day Parade, and they seemed very nice.
In terms of missionizing outside this forum, the mods and admins can't control that, nor would we want to. And I happen to agree that it takes two to tango.
*But* with that being said, I don't think it was the best idea for Allen to openly admit to trying to convert Jews, given what the families of many our American Jewish posters of European ancestry have gone through in the past. Of course, they will be very sensitive about that kind of thing.
Personally, I am grateful to all of our supporters, and people who post on the forum. So can we please just wait and see what Chaim and Jimmy have to say? Like I said in another post, I am not privy to everything that goes on behind the scenes. There may have been more stuff going on.
Lisa, you are wonderful, but I don't care what Jimmy has to say as he is outright lying about me.
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This isn't a Jewish forum. It's a forum for saving Israel and America from its enemies. I doubt there are any forums on religious Judaism that have non-Jewish moderators, nor should there be.
Not jewish, ha?
What - prey tell does the 'J' in JTF stand for???? Jambalaya perhaps.
Funny how JTF's slogan is "Fighting to save America and Israel from Islamic terrorism!". This is a board for any righteous people who want to help in this cause. Why am I even responding to you? Your posts are about as worthwhile as drek.
So answer the question, you moose twit. What's the 'J' stand for????
chaim says he welcomes all decent people whom are rightous gentiles.
That's right. But gentiles who attempt the spiritual murder of the jewish people are NOT righteous. They are wicked and evil.
As you see it.
NO....it's how Torah sees it. How the Rambam sees it. How Rabbi Kahane sees it. How Chaim sees it. How every Torah schollar, orthodox jew, and every bagel shop owner throughout history sees it.
So popularity qualifies truth? The acknowlegment by the masses makes it so? That is not an argument, unless you believe American Idol has some great significance. I want to ask you something, and this is an honest question, I don't mean to be cute or off handed. I read on the forum recently that Jews are forced to go to liberal Synagogues if that is all that is in their neighborhood since they cannot drive or handle money on Shabbot. Most real Christians travel to the best Bible teaching church they can find because good teaching is a must. I live in Brooklyn, but I worship in Manhattan. What effect do you suppose that has on the percentages of Biblically literate Jews verses Christians?
Compare apples with apples. A jew with mediocre knowledge of the true bible is better than a christian with an expert knowledge of a pagan fraud.
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Jews don't need Jesus. How is it YOUR place to say that Jews need Jesus. We have our own faith that you need to respect, and you have a faith that needs to be respected and part of your faith shouldn't include trying to convert Jews to it. How would you like it if I went around telling Christians that Jesus was a fraud and he wasn't a messiah and I proved it with sources from the Bible. I wouldn't go around doing this because I RESPECT Christianity, and it appears that you don't respect Judaism.
and we dont need the talmud, whats your point.
If allen t was continually preaching the gospel on this forum, which IS A POLTICAL MOVEMENT, not to prove which theology is correct.
Now as i have stated, allen t told me to not preach the gospel on this forum, as he new i was a evenagelical born again christian, so i repected that, but if you want me to only preach to non jews, OUTSIDE OF THE FORUM,, then thats ridiculous.
You obviously have no understanding of the what so ever of the new covenant.....
The new covenant is fraud. Just like Mohammad was a fraud.
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OK folks this thread is getting WAY out of hand.
I do not want our disagreement with Allen-T to get into a whole Christian bashing thing. As a Jewish woman, I am very sensitive about knocking other peoples religions.
So I am locking this thread.