JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Yerusha on December 25, 2012, 10:15:20 AM
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Feiglin has caused uproar by saying that those who say we must "obey orders' in throwing Jews out of their homes should ask forgiveness from Eichmann whose defence in 1962 was that he was also only "obeying orders!"
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4324211,00.html
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01875/eichmann-620_1875226c.jpg)
Title modified to make it less misleading
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I would agree with Feiglin on this. The principle is you're not supposed to follow orders if you are ordered to do something evil.
Agreed
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Also agree with him on this issue. IT is a correct analogy. Yerusha your title is deliberately misleading.
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Absolutely right. Those who "obey orders" to throw Jews out of their homes are behaving similarly to the Nazis.
Misleading title.
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Right words, wrong person.
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No Jew of conscience can evict Jews from their rightful homes.... Obviously when the law of the state contradicts the Laws of Torah the Torah must triumph over the wicked laws of the secular state...
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Right words, wrong person.
To be honest, I'm starting to like Feiglin. I am not inclined to trust politicians so I want to see what he does 1st when he is in the Knesset, but I have some degree of optimism with him.
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To be honest, I'm starting to like Feiglin. I am not inclined to trust politicians so I want to see what he does 1st when he is in the Knesset, but I have some degree of optimism with him.
He denounces Jewish heroes and advocates legalizing drugs.
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He denounces Jewish heroes and advocates legalizing drugs.
Regarding the legalization of pot, I support it. I don't recommend it's use but I do not think the government should be involved.
The Jewish prisoners thing is a complicated issue, I really do not wish to comment on it.
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Me too, but the heroes should go free.
If he was pro-Pot and also pro annexation of the Judea and Samaria regions I would fully support him...
I also don't quite understand why anyone would say Jewish patriots should rot in jail. Obviously a misunderstanding is going on here. How can it be justified to release arab terrorists in order to release Shalit while Jewish prisoners have no redemption from prison? This seems very questionable...
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Right words, wrong person.
There are very few people in Israel who consistently preach against expulsion of Jews. Even the so-called rightwing hero naftali bennett backtracked due to the pressure and said he does not call on soldiers to refuse orders to expel.
Feiglin has been right on this particular issue all along.
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I would agree with Feiglin on this. The principle is you're not supposed to follow orders if you are ordered to do something evil.
I don't getit: why should they ask Eichmann for forgiveness? I dont get the second part of the said analogy
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There are very few people in Israel who consistently preach against expulsion of Jews. Even the so-called rightwing hero naftali bennett backtracked due to the pressure and said he does not call on soldiers to refuse orders to expel.
Feiglin has been right on this particular issue all along.
He's not as bad as most Israeli politicians, true. That doesn't mean he is a Kahanist or a moral example for all of Israel to follow. Chaim is the answer, not this hasbeen that has been floating around Israeli politics for the better part of two decades who is so desperate to get in the Knesset that he will say most anything the NWO wants him to.
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They shouldn't ask Eichmann for forgiveness. That's the whole point. He's pointing out the double standard of the left saying that IDF soldiers must "obey orders" to throw Jews out of their homes, while no Jew in their right mind would absolve Eichmann of his crimes simply because he was "obeying orders". If Eichmann shouldn't have followed orders to do evil to Jews, then neither should IDF soldiers. If IDF soldiers can use the excuse "just following orders" to expel Jews from their homes, then that's a double standard.
Now, I get it perfectly, thank you
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Now, I get it perfectly, thank you
And by extension, Jews that advocate the ethnic cleansing of their fellow Jews, such as some fake Kahanists do (or at least tolerate), are as evil as Eichmann.
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I don't getit: why should they ask Eichmann for forgiveness? I dont get the second part of the said analogy
Because the state put him to death for "following orders."
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Because the state put him to death for "following orders."
This, by the way, is proof that the Kahanists are not the extremists the world makes them out to be. Technically, because they say that people need to follow the Israeli fascist government's orders no matter what, MBA and Marzel are absolutely no different than Eichmann and warrant the same legal consequences. But Kahanists do not believe that they should be executed. We only say that they should not hold any power (or, perhaps, that they should be exiled from the Holy Land like Marzel supports happening to Chaim).
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And by extension, Jews that advocate the ethnic cleansing of their fellow Jews, such as some fake Kahanists do (or at least tolerate), are as evil as Eichmann.
Who does? Seriously? I think you are very passionate, fine. But their are lines that you are crossing. Sorry dude, you need to relax. Yes their are problems but who can seriously say or even think such a thing to compare almost any Jew to that evil monster. I would only, only and cautiously reserve these types of things to evil Jews who purposefully and knowingly try to bring harm and evil upon the Jewish people. Maybe only in these situations. Their are many people and many motivations as well behind their actions. Even some leftists actually believe in their non-sense and in "Peace". Wrong? Absolutely. Something we need to speak about and oppose- ABSOLUTELY. But these types of rhetoric and these types of words need to be and should only be reserves for very few, very evil elements. And that group is a minority.
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Who does? Seriously? I think you are very passionate, fine. But their are lines that you are crossing. Sorry dude, you need to relax. Yes their are problems but who can seriously say or even think such a thing to compare almost any Jew to that evil monster. I would only, only and cautiously reserve these types of things to evil Jews who purposefully and knowingly try to bring harm and evil upon the Jewish people. Maybe only in these situations. Their are many people and many motivations as well behind their actions. Even some leftists actually believe in their non-sense and in "Peace". Wrong? Absolutely. Something we need to speak about and oppose- ABSOLUTELY. But these types of rhetoric and these types of words need to be and should only be reserves for very few, very evil elements. And that group is a minority.
I didn't say they are actually as evil as Eichmann, no, but technically they are doing one of the exact same things as Yerusha pointed out. They are excusing atrocities against Jews on the basis of "following orders" and as such they could be punished as rodfim if I am not mistaken (but ask Chaim). In any event I said that we do not actually support them receiving the same penalty as Eichmann, just that the comparison, in one area, is valid.
At the same time there are some damning incidents to remember regarding Nazism and these individuals:
1: Mike Guzofsky was very tolerant of Nazis on his forum at one time (Tina Greco, Andrew Newman, Kelly Taylor, etc.) because those Nazis hated JTF and were posting our pictures on Pedofront.
2: David Haivri has compared Chaim to Hitler for no other reason than that he worked with Gentiles. In fact he and his followers called the great Noahide righteous Gentile, Jimmy Sullivan, a "dirty goy".
3: Baruch Marzel hired Roni the Nazi (Uzi Zalka) as his webmaster. Uzi Zalka supports Hitler and produced videos praising the Shoah and calling for the death of all Ashkenazim. When Chaim pointed this out to Marzel, he blew up at him and continued to employ Zalka.
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Both Feiglin and Michael Ben Ari
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/163465 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/163465)
have said they support refusing orders to evict Jews.
I agree with them on this issue.
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Rabbi Dov Lior has said on a number of occasions that :
Expulsion Orders Are "Religious Coercion"
Any Army order to dismantle Jewish communities is an anti-religious act.
In answer to soldiers' questions concerning orders to participate in removing Jews from their homes, Rabbi Lior responded that such an order is a religious violation; therefore, he said, the soldiers are exempt from carrying it out.
see for example http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/70749
Anyone know of Rabbi Lior's reaction to Bennet's call to follow expulsion orders? After all it was Rabbi Dov Lior's agreement that the Tekuma party (which takes direction from Rabbi Lior) team up with Bennet, that allowed Bennet to become popular in the polls.
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Both Feiglin and Michael Ben Ari
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/163465 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/163465)
have said they support refusing orders to evict Jews.
I agree with them on this issue.
But they support people that are backers of ethnic cleansing.