JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dexter on July 21, 2007, 07:30:03 AM
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What is the name you think is the right name for a jewish (kahanist) state ?
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Israel because we are all children of Yaacov. Judea was the righteous tribe of Israel whose remnants were never lost. There will be a time that all of the children of Israel will gather themselves in Eretz Yisrael. It only makes sense to keep the name of Israel as Israel rather than Judea.
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Israel because we are all children of Yaacov. Judea was the righteous tribe of Israel whose remnants were never lost. There will be a time that all of the children of Israel will gather themselves in Eretz Yisrael. It only makes sense to keep the name of Israel as Israel rather than Judea.
Yisrael = Wined G-d...i don't really think it's a good name .
Besides..all "real" israelis (semaria) were gone or destroys, and only the tribes of yehuda binyamin and menashe, and they actually called ivrim (hebrew) .
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Israel because we are all children of Yaacov. Judea was the righteous tribe of Israel whose remnants were never lost. There will be a time that all of the children of Israel will gather themselves in Eretz Yisrael. It only makes sense to keep the name of Israel as Israel rather than Judea.
Yisrael = Wined G-d...i don't really think it's a good name .
Besides..all "real" israelis (semaria) were gone or destroys, and only the tribes of yehuda binyamin and menashe, and they actually called ivrim (hebrew) .
After a few more world wars i can see Judea being a new name. But so far to me, Israel makes more sense.
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Yisrael means he who struggles with G-d.
I prefer the name Israel as it was the name of the nation as a whole, whereas Yehuda only refers to a specific part of the nation.
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Yisrael means he who struggles with G-d.
I prefer the name Israel as it was the name of the nation as a whole, whereas Yehuda only refers to a specific part of the nation.
Not really, Yehuda was a seperate nation for 400 years, while israel/sameria was existed for only 200 and the united nation was less the 100 years.
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Everyone from whatever tribe is still the Nation of Israel. I still think Israel is a more inclusive name. Or Zion maybe.
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Everyone from whatever tribe is still the Nation of Israel. I still think Israel is a more inclusive name. Or Zion maybe.
Not really, if you are israeli you not must be jwish, you can say "i'm israeli but not jewish", if you are judean, you must be jewish (judean=jewish) .
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Yes but Judea was the land of the tribe of Judah. Jews/ Jewish just means men of Judah. Today,the term Jewish refurs to All Israelites like Cohenim etc. The point is that all descendents of Yaacov are Israelites, not just Judeans, so Israel better represents the nation for all 12 tribes.
Israelis who aren't Jewish should get the f___ out.
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Yes but Judea was the land of the tribe of Judah. Jews/ Jewish just means men of Judah. Today,the term Jewish refurs to All Israelites like Cohenim etc. The point is that all descendents of Yaacov are Israelites, not just Judeans, so Israel better represents the nation for all 12 tribes.
Israelis who aren't Jewish should get the f___ out.
Newman, you are wrong, kingdom of judea spread over 2.5 tribe's terrritory, and they were the only people that are Israelites becuase the other 9.5 tribes were gone, all of them so we are the offspring of 3 tribes in kingdom of judea, but becuase judea called judea we need to call ourselves as judeans .
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But you are also still called B'nei Yisrael, not B'nei Judah. There are still Cohenim around like Tovia Singer and some say that not every single member of the other tribes disappeared. Even if only one or two men from the lost tribes, or their sons survived, they would have descendents today.
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But you are also still called B'nei Yisrael, not B'nei Judah. There are still Cohenim around like Tovia Singer and some say that not every single member of the other tribes disappeared. Even if only one or two men from the lost tribes, or their sons survived, they would have descendents today.
The sons of israel, not israelis, and our religion name is judaism not israelism, therefor, if you are part of judean nation you'r automatically part of the jewish religion and you just can't say "i'm judean but i'm not jewish", you are judean/jewish or somthing else, you just can't say you aren't jewiish .
All 10 lost tribe gone from history, they assimilated with the people they live with after the exile, any way most of 10 tribes were pagans, they believe the Phoenician's pagan religion.
Therefor, all of us should be name as judean, it any way our name for 2582 (or somthing) years, and we can't just call ourselves somthing that was out of use for 2582 years and make the option the disconnect our true identity.
P.S.
Also rebbi Meir Kahane ZTOK"L HY"D wanted a Judean state .
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I voted Kahane
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What does the Sanhedrin say?
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What does the Sandrehin say?
You mean Sanhedrin ? I don't know what the name mean but it's a jewish court, you can read more right here :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanhedrin
P.S.
What about what i'v said ?
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Judea was not all of Biblical Israel.It's like calling the USA New York or Texas. What you should have is a federation like USA or Australia. You have a collection of states like a State of Judea, State of Samaria, Tel Aviv area called Self-Hate Land, State of Gaza ( or whatever it was called in Solomon's time), State of Sinai etc.
The different states have there own representatives in the Knesset of the Federation of Israel.
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Judea was not all of Biblical Israel.It's like calling the USA New York or Texas. What you should have is a federation like USA or Australia. You have a collection of states like a State of Judea, State of Samaria, Tel Aviv area called Self-Hate Land, State of Gaza ( or whatever it was called in Solomon's time), State of Sinai etc.
The different states have there own representatives in the Knesset of the Federation of Israel.
Judea was the state that replaced Biblical Israel and they ware the only jews or Israelites that left after the exile, there blood is my blood and almost all jewish men's and women's blood, it's our name for 2582 and we shouldn't change it, besides, as i said, to be called "Israeli" giving you the option to say you aren't jew .
And i think that a federation for so small area is a mistake, if we were big as USA than i would agree with .
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If ben Gurion and Co had named the State 'Judea' you would have people today saying "I'm Judean, but not Jewish", so it's not really an argument. The definition 'Israeli' is a modern, secular term. If a truly Jewish Torah nation existed and it was called 'Israel' like in David's time, only B'nei Yisrael would live there and they would be called 'Israelites', not Israelis. 'Israelite' fits everbody descended from Yaacov regardless of tribe.
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If ben Gurion and Co had named the State 'Judea' you would have people today saying "I'm Judean, but not Jewish", so it's not really an argument. The definition 'Israeli' is a modern, secular term. If a truly Jewish Torah nation existed and it was called 'Israel' like in David's time, only B'nei Yisrael would live there and they would be called 'Israelites', not Israelis. 'Israelite' fits everbody descended from Yaacov regardless of tribe.
In hebew, Israelis and Israelites is the same thing .
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If ben Gurion and Co had named the State 'Judea' you would have people today saying "I'm Judean, but not Jewish", so it's not really an argument. The definition 'Israeli' is a modern, secular term. If a truly Jewish Torah nation existed and it was called 'Israel' like in David's time, only B'nei Yisrael would live there and they would be called 'Israelites', not Israelis. 'Israelite' fits everbody descended from Yaacov regardless of tribe.
In hebew, Israelis and Israelites is the same thing .
Yes, in modern State of Israel Hebrew. I'm no Torah scollar, but 'Israelite' in the the Bible only referrs to a true Israelite , not a dirty arab or Russian christian immigrant with a passport that says 'Israeli'.
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If ben Gurion and Co had named the State 'Judea' you would have people today saying "I'm Judean, but not Jewish", so it's not really an argument. The definition 'Israeli' is a modern, secular term. If a truly Jewish Torah nation existed and it was called 'Israel' like in David's time, only B'nei Yisrael would live there and they would be called 'Israelites', not Israelis. 'Israelite' fits everbody descended from Yaacov regardless of tribe.
In hebew, Israelis and Israelites is the same thing .
Yes, in modern State of Israel Hebrew. I'm no Torah scollar, but 'Israelite' in the the Bible only referrs to a true Israelite , not a dirty arab or Russian christian immigrant with a passport that says 'Israel'.
So what if it is, we are "judeans" for 2582 years, and i never saw on the torah that we call ourselves israelites, only hebrews .
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If ben Gurion and Co had named the State 'Judea' you would have people today saying "I'm Judean, but not Jewish", so it's not really an argument. The definition 'Israeli' is a modern, secular term. If a truly Jewish Torah nation existed and it was called 'Israel' like in David's time, only B'nei Yisrael would live there and they would be called 'Israelites', not Israelis. 'Israelite' fits everbody descended from Yaacov regardless of tribe.
In hebew, Israelis and Israelites is the same thing .
Yes, in modern State of Israel Hebrew. I'm no Torah scollar, but 'Israelite' in the the Bible only referrs to a true Israelite , not a dirty arab or Russian christian immigrant with a passport that says 'Israel'.
So what if it is, we are "judeans" for 2582 years, and i never saw on the torah that we call ourselves israelites, only hebrews .
Hebrews and Israelites are the same thing......I think?? We should ask Lubab. Tovia Singer said that 'technically' he's not a Jew but an Israelite.
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Re: "...Israelis who aren't Jewish should get the f___ out..."
In theory this is a good idea.
In reality, however, there would be no modern State Of Israel reclaimed from the foreign-occupied swamps and deserts, had it not been the for the Bolshevik secularists who actually did the job of creating the State which allows all Jews to return home!
Quite an irony of history, to say the least!
A Lubavitcher Rabbi told me that the religious Jews of Europe (as a whole) were too busy davening to consider the impracticality of packing a duffelbag and setting sail for foreign-occupied wasteland.
Draining malarial swamps, sleeping outdoors without shelter or plumbing, riding horses and plowing hard rock-riddled terrain, devising irrigation systems, training in military combat; all the while continually fighting off Arab terrorist raids and fighting with the regimes of foreign occupiers -- can anyone here seriously think that the typical Yeshivah students were physically up to the task which the secularists actually achieved against all the odds, and against all common wisdom?
I suggest taking a long look from the cliffs of the Lebanese border, out across the Galilee, over Haifa, to the approaches of Tel Aviv -- it is a sight more magnificent than words could ever convey, and the what one sees is Ha'Shem's Miracle worked in our time for all the world to behold. If the secular atheistic Jews of Eastern Europe were the tools G-d chose to do the dirty work necessary, then so be it.
These same Bolshevist types also died in great numbers and suffered unbearable losses, repeatedly, averaging about one major war against the entire Arab world every ten years...all the while reclaiming and building the modern Jewish State of Israel.
Every Jew in all of history owes a tremendous debt to the secularists and socialists who reclaimed and reestablished the State Of Israel in our time.
Every Jew of the two thousand yearl long Exile has prayed that they would live to see the day that they would return to Jerusalem. It is the Eastern European Jewish Socialists, opponents of faith, who in one of history's greatest mysteries enabled their fellow believing Jews to return home.
Take it up with Ha'Shem, if you don't like the way HE manages the Universe.
Eretz Yisrael will be a truly Jewish State once again, only when all of the religious Torah Jews return there to make Israel their permanent home.
And, this necessary mass Aliyah is currently not happening.
I feel that immediate worldwide mass Aliyah of all believing Jews should be our primary concern today. Pointing out the obvious inconsistencies of the Israeli secularist population is fun, but why are the Jews of Brooklyn still in NY Yeshivas and working as diamond merchants instead of seizing the great gift Ha'Shem has given them?
Why are ANY OF US in JTF still here in Exile?
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"Re: "...Israelis who aren't Jewish should get the f___ out..."
In theory this is a good idea.
In reality, however, there would be no modern State Of Israel reclaimed from the foreign-occupied swamps and deserts, had it not been the for the Bolshevik secularists who actually did the job of creating the State which allows all Jews to return home!
Quite an irony of history, to say the least!"
Massuh, Those Secular socialists were still Jews. Non-nobservant, atheists perhaps, but still Jewish (ie: born of Jewish mothers and the seed of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob).
I was referring to Non-Jews, Not non-Religious Jews.
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How about the name "The Jewish Republic of Israel"?
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judea because right now... israel is acting like they did when they were split off in the 10 tribes who were straying from torah into idolatry... and the land of judea (the remaining 2 tribes) were still righteous... we have plenty of time to become israel again when moshiach arrives... for now i would rather belong to the land of judea and see a secession from israel... i am for revolution now... and if it won't come from a coup from the idf and if the frum parties in israel will not run a candidate of rabbi kahane's appeal for prime minister... then there is nothing for me in the land of israel right now... nik. out...
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Wasn't Noam Federman or someone else trying to get support for an independent State of Judea and Samaria?
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judea because right now... israel is acting like they did when they were split off in the 10 tribes who were strying from torah into idolatry... and the land of judea (the remaining 2 tribes) were still righteous... we have plenty of time to become israel again when moshiach arrives... for now i would rather belong to the land of judea and see a secession from israel... i am for revolution now... and if it won't come from a coup from the idf and if the frum parties in israel will not run a candidate of rabbi kahane's appeal for prime minister... then there is nothing for me in the land of israel right now... nik. out...
Exectly .
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Just to spite the the leftists Eretz Kahane
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Maybe Judea now and Israel when Messiach comes.