JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Irish Zionist on February 16, 2014, 12:21:17 PM
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http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/pot-fuels-surge-drugged-driving-deaths-n22991
http://www2.potsdam.edu/alcohol/files/Marijuana-Use-Increases-Risk-of-Traffic-Crashes-and-Deaths.html#.UwDyPoX5ASk
During each shift at her drive-through window, once an hour, Cordelia Cordova sees people rolling joints in their cars. Some blow smoke in her face and smile.
Cordova, who lost a 23-year-old niece and her 1-month-old son to a driver who admitted he smoked pot that day, never smiles back. She thinks legal marijuana in Colorado, where she works, is making the problem of drugged driving worse — and now new research supports her claim.
"Nobody hides it anymore when driving," Cordova said. "They think it's a joke because it’s legal. Nobody will take this seriously until somebody loses another loved one."
As medical marijuana sales expanded into 20 states, legal weed was detected in the bodies of dead drivers three times more often during 2010 when compared to those who died behind the wheel in 1999, according to a new study from Columbia University published in the American Journal of Epidemiology.
“The trend suggests that marijuana is playing an increased role in fatal crashes,” said Dr. Guohua Li, a co-author and director of the Center for Injury Epidemiology and Prevention at Columbia University Medical Center. The researchers examined data from the federal Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS), spanning more than 23,000 drivers killed during that 11-year period.
(http://www.globalpost.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/gp3_slideshow_large/car_crash_texas.jpg)
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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/09/us/politics/rand-paul-wins-conservative-straw-poll.html?_r=0
(http://clclt.com/binary/f81c/1317910188-randhat.jpg)
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Nothing new the Pauls always win
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Nothing new the Pauls always win
True, the Paulies always manage to infiltrate these straw polls. But Rand Paul is smarter and more polished and, therefore, more electable than his evil dad.
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Is there some reason you refer to him as a 'drug pusher'? I have never heard of this allegation.
I know that the Rands have taken money and supported causes which are neo-nazi... But 'drug-pusher' is a very new allegation. When did they sell drugs? A drug pusher is one who tries to force get his clients hooked on drugs by offering them cheap or free initially, then slowly (as the user gets hooked) raises the price...
Is this a hyperbolic allegation? I assume it is...
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Will someone tell me or point me in the right direction...... I would like to see some of the allegations made against Paul and see sources. It is not that I am trying to dispute them, I just reluctantly want to know..... I really like Rand Paul but I guess there is more to him than I am aware of. I don't want these allegations to be true but truth reigns..... if they are true I will support another candidate.
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Will someone tell me or point me in the right direction...... I would like to see some of the allegations made against Paul and see sources. It is not that I am trying to dispute them, I just reluctantly want to know..... I really like Rand Paul but I guess there is more to him than I am aware of. I don't want these allegations to be true but truth reigns..... if they are true I will support another candidate.
בס''ד
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5DiyAwlItM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5DiyAwlItM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDeSBSLPlag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDeSBSLPlag
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb9yZvL-TAk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb9yZvL-TAk
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Tom Tancredo blasts Rand Paul for supporting amnesty for 20 million illegal aliens:
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,68156.msg588765.html#msg588765
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ron paul supporters are weird.
don't know about rand paul. probably the same.
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Is there some reason you refer to him as a 'drug pusher'? I have never heard of this allegation.
I know that the Rands have taken money and supported causes which are neo-nazi... But 'drug-pusher' is a very new allegation. When did they sell drugs? A drug pusher is one who tries to force get his clients hooked on drugs by offering them cheap or free initially, then slowly (as the user gets hooked) raises the price...
Is this a hyperbolic allegation? I assume it is...
stop being literal minded.
ron and rand hate your kind. that should be enough for you.
yes, those are small 'r's.
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Is there some reason you refer to him as a 'drug pusher'? I have never heard of this allegation.
I know that the Rands have taken money and supported causes which are neo-nazi... But 'drug-pusher' is a very new allegation. When did they sell drugs? A drug pusher is one who tries to force get his clients hooked on drugs by offering them cheap or free initially, then slowly (as the user gets hooked) raises the price...
Is this a hyperbolic allegation? I assume it is...
I'm guessing he called them drug pushers, because they're Libertarians and believe drugs should be legal. Which I have gone back and forth on... If they are legal you don't have all the drug cartels, ect. getting rich and building their empire's. On the other hand you have a bunch of idiots killing themselves that tax payers have to pay for...
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I'm guessing he called them drug pushers, because they're Libertarians and believe drugs should be legal. Which I have gone back and forth on... If they are legal you don't have all the drug cartels, ect. getting rich and building their empire's. On the other hand you have a bunch of idiots killing themselves that tax payers have to pay for...
Supporting legalization or decriminalization does not make one a drug pusher though... Nobody makes anyone take drugs. A pusher connotes a person who tries to get clients hooked through unscrupulous means.
I have stated many times I am completely for legal medical MJ. I am not a pusher though...
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stop being literal minded.
ron and rand hate your kind. that should be enough for you.
yes, those are small 'r's.
I dont support rand or ron paul in the least. I am 100% with JTF position on them. My point is the term 'drug pusher' is a bit hyperbolic.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hyperbole
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The Steppenwolf (I saw them) song 'Pusher Man' describes what my impression of 'drug pusher' is...
WARNING: there is some inappropriate language in this song...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XqyGoE2Q4Y
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Must be pushing drugs, considering the zombies that follow him.
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Must be pushing drugs, considering the zombies that follow him.
Hmmm... They do seem like they are on meth at times...
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M, smoking weed whether its legal or illegal is bad.
the pauls support pot-heads.
and they hate der juden.
why defend them?
hitler did cocaine and hated der juden. you must really like hitler. oh sorry he didn't smoke weed.
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M, smoking weed whether its legal or illegal is bad.
the pauls support pot-heads.
and they hate der juden.
why defend them?
hitler did cocaine and hated der juden. you must really like hitler. oh sorry he didn't smoke weed.
What do you mean 'smoking weed whether its legal or illegal is bad'?
That is patently not true. The benefits of MJ as a medicine are many, and the alleviation of pain using non opiate drugs is very beneficial.
I know because I was taking prescription pain killers for almost four years (2004-2007) and I can tell you, you don't want to take them (especially when you need to drive to and from work). I have posted several interesting studies which indicate that THC has the ability to reduce certain cancers in patients. Dr Sanjay Gupta has recently been revealing all the positive medical benefits of MJ and THC.
The problem is that often patients need to resort to unscrupulous 'dealers' who may be involved in crime. I fully support legalized medical MJ and believe that even as a recreational drug it's effects are minimal.
I know that some of the smartest people in my Highschool had smoked and they went on to work for prestigious institutions (one works for DARPA).
I can go into some more personal stories about how I know that legal pot is not a problem for society but I will save it...
I know that JTF does not endorse any drug use... But I am just stating my opinion.
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BTW, is anyone familiar with the story as to why Pot was originally made illegal? You know it was legal in this country for many, many years and only recently (1940s) made illegal... It had a lot to do with racism, and with the influence the alcohol lobby had...
http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/why-is-marijuana-illegal/
http://www.policymic.com/articles/78685/a-brief-history-of-how-marijuana-became-illegal-in-the-u-s
http://www.omg-facts.com/Fun+Facts/Marijuana-was-made-illegal-in-1937-by-a/55729
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I'm half with Muman on this. Now that I study Torah, forget it, I'm not concentrating as well, and with mitzvot, I don't care as much. It doesn't make you holy. That aside, for people who need it, it's better than chemical crap.
As for the illegalizations, I support full hemp industrial and agricultural production, and as a low-cost option to improve the quality of air in cities. Not having kids smoke it.
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Supporting legalization or decriminalization does not make one a drug pusher though... Nobody makes anyone take drugs. A pusher connotes a person who tries to get clients hooked through unscrupulous means.
I have stated many times I am completely for legal medical MJ. I am not a pusher though...
If you make this danger legal more people will use it.
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If you make this danger legal more people will use it.
Agreed, but fines, you aren't improving the country by turning them into heroin junkies in jail over it.
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What do you mean 'smoking weed whether its legal or illegal is bad'?
That is patently not true. The benefits of MJ as a medicine are many, and the alleviation of pain using non opiate drugs is very beneficial.
I know because I was taking prescription pain killers for almost four years (2004-2007) and I can tell you, you don't want to take them (especially when you need to drive to and from work). I have posted several interesting studies which indicate that THC has the ability to reduce certain cancers in patients. Dr Sanjay Gupta has recently been revealing all the positive medical benefits of MJ and THC.
The problem is that often patients need to resort to unscrupulous 'dealers' who may be involved in crime. I fully support legalized medical MJ and believe that even as a recreational drug it's effects are minimal.
I know that some of the smartest people in my Highschool had smoked and they went on to work for prestigious institutions (one works for DARPA).
I can go into some more personal stories about how I know that legal pot is not a problem for society but I will save it...
I know that JTF does not endorse any drug use... But I am just stating my opinion.
how did we go from pot-heads to doctor prescribed medical use?
there's no way I'm going to agree to weed smoking legal or not.
Oh "Dr Sanjay Gupta" said so. hail "Dr Sanjay Gupta".
he also likes to smoke little boy's pipes.
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I support legalization of marijuana consumption under strict regulation and heavy taxation. But I think going half way by decriminalizing it or making it legal state wide while keeping it illegal federally is worse then just outright outlawing it.
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I support legalization of marijuana consumption under strict regulation and heavy taxation. But I think going half way by decriminalizing it or making it legal state wide while keeping it illegal federally is worse then just outright outlawing it.
Then you support cocaine, meth & heroin legalization because this is the danger that will spread.
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For some reason I just don't beleive the stoner claim that inhaling 1000 degree smoke has no harmful effects.
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For some reason I just don't beleive the stoner claim that inhaling 1000 degree smoke has no harmful effects.
Where did you come up with this one? 1000 degree? I don't think so..
More like between 200-300 degree F...
http://forums.cannabisculture.com/forums/index.php?/topic/108834-what-temperature-does-marijuana-burn-at/
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I also disbelieve this study... I know from experience that until recently there was no correlation between use of MJ and driving accidents. There have been many studies and this is the 1st one which has made this claim. We will see if it is reproduceable.
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I also disbelieve this study... I know from experience that until recently there was no correlation between use of MJ and driving accidents. There have been many studies and this is the 1st one which has made this claim. We will see if it is reproduceable.
This study is FACT weather you believe it or not.
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This study is FACT weather you believe it or not.
And so were the others FACT... And like all science it is only FACT if the study is reproducable.
I can post other studies here which have shown otherwise... But this argument is getting old.
I know for a fact because in 1993 I beat a DWI pot charge very easily. We presented the scientific studies at the time and showed that there was no correlation between use and impaired driving. Granted that was 20 years ago but I doubt that things have changed that much in that time. I also have been looking on google and found some other studies which support my position.
Once again my position, which has not changed during my JTF involvement, is that recreational use should not be legalized. But that medical use (by doctors prescription) should be permitted.
I know you will discount NORML's presentation of the scientific findings on the topic, but I will post it here anyhow....
http://norml.org/library/item/marijuana-and-driving-a-review-of-the-scientific-evidence
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BTW, what do you intend to do to get all the 'Sleepy drivers' off the road? Do you know they are responsible for far more (11 Million) accidents? Over 1,500 people a year are killed by sleepy drivers...
http://drowsydriving.org/about/facts-and-stats/
According to the National Sleep Foundation’s 2005 Sleep in America poll, 60% of adult drivers – about 168 million people – say they have driven a vehicle while feeling drowsy in the past year, and more than one-third, (37% or 103 million people), have actually fallen asleep at the wheel! In fact, of those who have nodded off, 13% say they have done so at least once a month. Four percent – approximately eleven million drivers – admit they have had an accident or near accident because they dozed off or were too tired to drive.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration conservatively estimates that 100,000 police-reported crashes are the direct result of driver fatigue each year. This results in an estimated 1,550 deaths, 71,000 injuries, and $12.5 billion in monetary losses. These figures may be the tip of the iceberg, since currently it is difficult to attribute crashes to sleepiness.
* There is no test to determine sleepiness as there is for intoxication, i.e. a “Breathalyzer”.
* State reporting practices are inconsistent. There is little or no police training in identifying drowsiness as a crash factor. Every state currently addresses fatigue and/or sleepiness in some way in their crash report forms. However, the codes are inconsistent and two states (Missouri and Wisconsin) do not have specific codes for fatigue and/or fell asleep.
* Self-reporting is unreliable.
* Drowsiness/fatigue may play a role in crashes attributed to other causes such as alcohol. About one million such crashes annually are thought to be produced by driver inattention/lapses.
* According to data from Australia, England, Finland, and other European nations, all of whom have more consistent crash reporting procedures than the U.S., drowsy driving represents 10 to 30 percent of all crashes.
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Maybe we should have a way to test how sleepy people are before they can start their vehicle?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep-deprived_driving
Sleep-deprived driving is the operation of a motor vehicle while being cognitively impaired by a lack of sleep. Sleep deprivation is a major cause of motor vehicle accidents, and it can impair the human brain as much as alcohol can.[1] According to a 1998 survey, 23% of adults have fallen asleep while driving.[2] According to the United States Department of Transportation, male drivers admit to have fallen asleep while driving twice as much as female drivers.[3]
In the United States, 250,000 drivers fall asleep at the wheel every day, according to the Division of Sleep Medicine at Harvard Medical School and in a national poll by the National Sleep Foundation, 54% of adult drivers said they had driven while drowsy during the past year with 28% saying they had actually fallen asleep while driving. According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, drowsy driving is a factor in more than 100,000 crashes, resulting in 1,550 deaths and 40,000 injuries annually in the USA.[4]
When a person does not get an adequate amount of sleep his or her ability to function is affected. As listed below their coordination is impaired, have longer reaction time, impairs judgment, and memory is impaired. This means a person who is tired has a higher rate of forgetting things and not being able to remember things.
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I could only find things that cigarettes burn at 1292 F at the tip when they're inhaled. I mean honestly though the majority of people only want marijuana legalized "medically" as a step towards legalizing recreationally
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I could only find things that cigarettes burn at 1292 F at the tip when they're inhaled. I mean honestly though the majority of people only want marijuana legalized "medically" as a step towards legalizing recreationally
My experience is that it has actual medicinal uses which provide pain relief without the bad effects of the opiate based pain medicine. I had a painful condition which was diagnosed as Vasculitis (later it was called Venus Insufficiency) for which I was prescribed Hydrocodone. I was taking those for several years (I actually still have 2 empty pill bottles on my desk here at work)... It is not good to take them for too long...
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Anway, I feel like the Lone Ranger in this discussion...
I hope that we will all know the truth soon..
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Yawn. Death, taxes, and this.
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Yawn. Death, taxes, and this.
Hey you see the guy on the pictures that say you're an agent provocateur?
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Cocaine, meth & heroin are nothing like marijuana. Completely different! Marijuana in moderation once in a while in the safety of one's own home is NOTHING like getting drugged out on hard drugs that make people go crazy and jump into pools to drown or jump from buildings or hear voices in their heads that makes them attack people. Very different, and I don't buy into the mass hysteria about smoking a few hits of pot is going to make people go on a hallucination LSD trip. I know plenty of people who once in a while get a little bit of marijuana and smoke it on a Saturday night like once or twice a year. All they do is laugh a lot to a movie for a few hours and get hungry, that's it! That is what marijuana in moderation is like. No trips, no hallucinations, no attacking people no going out to rob a liquor store. They're not stupid enough to go driving after it either. And they NEVER are interested in cocaine or meth or anything like that. They work, pay their taxes and don't get into trouble.
I find that it is usually the people who never smoked once in their lives (and have no idea what it feels like) are the most susceptible to fall for the lies about marijuana and think getting high is some horrible acid trip that makes people shoot at passing traffic and then go on a murder spree. This was said of Absinthe a long time ago and it turned out to be totally false and re-legalized. How many people here who are so vehemently against marijuana and say it's some hell demon acid have actually tried it? (Don't have to answer it). I am sure there are people who smoked in their younger years are against it in their older years.
I don't agree with people illegally doing marijuana because illegal pot is handled by the drug cartels that are responsible for killing innocent people, human trafficking etc. To buy illegal marijuana is to help the evil traffickers who destroy people's lives, who kill and kidnap. Legal marijuana, however, has not affected Amsterdam. If the fools in Colorado don't know how to handle it (because they're like stupid kids in a candy store) then the penalties for being irresponsible with legal marijuana should be very harsh so that it will deter people from smoking and driving. Make examples out of them for their irresponsible stupidity.
Oh but drunk drivers kill people on the road too yet no one is crying for alcohol prohibition. And there are people who cause accident because they're on pain killers- we don't want that banned. And Muman is right, sleepy drivers do kill on the road. I hope I am not sounding rude but I can't fall into the mass hysteria about legal marijuana destroying society.
I agree that there are people who have mental problems (like psychosis, schizophrenia etc) who should never take marijuana because it could affect them mentally, but that is true of many legal drugs as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjpDEnCej6A
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To be honest, in Montreal, more than 50% of people use marijuana, and when I was very young, I was in cars many times where the driver smoked while driving, and there never was a problem. The Canadian ski team used marijuana before the games, and were disqualified for using "performance enhancing drugs", and of course, instant reactions are critical, and I know a fighter who used it before a match, and is superb, so I also have major doubts as to the validity of this study, or that someone who uses it regularly will have their response time inhibited.
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Cocaine, meth & heroin are nothing like marijuana. Completely different! Marijuana in moderation once in a while in the safety of one's own home is NOTHING like getting drugged out on hard drugs that make people go crazy and jump into pools to drown or jump from buildings or hear voices in their heads that makes them attack people. Very different, and I don't buy into the mass hysteria about smoking a few hits of pot is going to make people go on a hallucination LSD trip. I know plenty of people who once in a while get a little bit of marijuana and smoke it on a Saturday night like once or twice a year. All they do is laugh a lot to a movie for a few hours and get hungry, that's it! That is what marijuana in moderation is like. No trips, no hallucinations, no attacking people no going out to rob a liquor store. They're not stupid enough to go driving after it either. And they NEVER are interested in cocaine or meth or anything like that. They work, pay their taxes and don't get into trouble.
I find that it is usually the people who never smoked once in their lives (and have no idea what it feels like) are the most susceptible to fall for the lies about marijuana and think getting high is some horrible acid trip that makes people shoot at passing traffic and then go on a murder spree. This was said of Absinthe a long time ago and it turned out to be totally false and re-legalized. How many people here who are so vehemently against marijuana and say it's some hell demon acid have actually tried it? (Don't have to answer it). I am sure there are people who smoked in their younger years are against it in their older years.
I don't agree with people illegally doing marijuana because illegal pot is handled by the drug cartels that are responsible for killing innocent people, human trafficking etc. To buy illegal marijuana is to help the evil traffickers who destroy people's lives, who kill and kidnap. Legal marijuana, however, has not affected Amsterdam. If the fools in Colorado don't know how to handle it (because they're like stupid kids in a candy store) then the penalties for being irresponsible with legal marijuana should be very harsh so that it will deter people from smoking and driving. Make examples out of them for their irresponsible stupidity.
Oh but drunk drivers kill people on the road too yet no one is crying for alcohol prohibition. And there are people who cause accident because they're on pain killers- we don't want that banned. And Muman is right, sleepy drivers do kill on the road. I hope I am not sounding rude but I can't fall into the mass hysteria about legal marijuana destroying society.
I agree that there are people who have mental problems (like psychosis, schizophrenia etc) who should never take marijuana because it could affect them mentally, but that is true of many legal drugs as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjpDEnCej6A
Yawn.
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They are scared so let's do it!
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And so were the others FACT... And like all science it is only FACT if the study is reproducable.
I can post other studies here which have shown otherwise... But this argument is getting old.
I know for a fact because in 1993 I beat a DWI pot charge very easily. We presented the scientific studies at the time and showed that there was no correlation between use and impaired driving. Granted that was 20 years ago but I doubt that things have changed that much in that time. I also have been looking on google and found some other studies which support my position.
Once again my position, which has not changed during my JTF involvement, is that recreational use should not be legalized. But that medical use (by doctors prescription) should be permitted.
I know you will discount NORML's presentation of the scientific findings on the topic, but I will post it here anyhow....
http://norml.org/library/item/marijuana-and-driving-a-review-of-the-scientific-evidence
Why were you charged with DWI?
What behavior caused that?
Plus, smoking pot and driving doesn't make you any more susceptible to falling asleep behind the wheel? It might. Just a thought.
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I did not know that devout Jews, and devout Gentiles that now consider themselves to be Jews, can acceptably use marijuana. But I'm an ignorant person that has a lot of things to learn in life, so maybe I'm wrong.
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Yawn.
LSDBR, that isn't nice.
Are you one of those 'never smoked pot over the top anti legalizing recreational pot people'?
I must be, for sure. But then...we don't live under rocks...do we?
You don't have to have smoked pot to know that consistent use of marijuana does have deleterious effects on people.
Just look at your friendly pot head from highschool...twenty years later.
http://psychcentral.com/lib/the-health-impact-of-regular-marijuana-use/0005306
https://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html
Health_Concerns: WHAT ARE THE MEDICAL DANGERS OF MARIJUANA USE?
I must preface these statements with the remark that there is still a great deal of research to be done concerning the effects of marijuana on the health of humans due to the fact that widespread marijuana use has only become prevalent in this country within the last three decades, so the effects of long-term use are just beginning to become apparent. I should also add that in making these observations, I have concentrated on the risks of smoking natural marijuana, since it is the most effective method of ingesting its active cannabinoids.
Marijuana has often been touted as one of the safest recreational substances available. This is perhaps true; many reputable scientific studies support the conclusion that cocaine, heroine, alcohol, and even cigarettes are more dangerous to the user�s health than marijuana. In addition, the celebrated pharmacological properties of cannabis have led thirty-six states to permit its use as a therapeutic drug for, among others, those suffering from AIDS; various painful, incurable and debilitating illnesses; the harmful side effects of cancer chemotherapy, and glaucoma. Additional research is being conducted concerning the use of marijuana on the treatment of anxiety and mental disorders.
Nonetheless, it would be fallacious to conclude that because the chemicals in marijuana have been found to present fewer dangers than some very harmful substances, the medical or recreational use of marijuana is perfectly safe. In a recreational context, marijuana has been shown to affect health, brain function, and memory. And in a medical context, marijuana is like any other powerful prescription drug: it has potentially dangerous side effects, and the decision to use it to treat patients must involve the same balancing test as the one required for chemotherapy or AZT: do the therapeutic effects of the drug outweigh its harmful effects? Though there are many more studies to be done on this issue, current data shows that the answer to this question may not always be "yes."
People should stop comparing marijuana to other drugs or alcohol. The issue is MARIJUANA.
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LSDBR, that isn't nice.
Are you one of those 'never smoked pot over the top anti legalizing recreational pot people'?
I must be, for sure. But then...we don't live under rocks...do we?
You don't have to have smoked pot to know that consistent use of marijuana does have deleterious effects on people.
Just look at your friendly pot head from highschool...twenty years later.
http://psychcentral.com/lib/the-health-impact-of-regular-marijuana-use/0005306
https://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html
Health_Concerns: WHAT ARE THE MEDICAL DANGERS OF MARIJUANA USE?
I must preface these statements with the remark that there is still a great deal of research to be done concerning the effects of marijuana on the health of humans due to the fact that widespread marijuana use has only become prevalent in this country within the last three decades, so the effects of long-term use are just beginning to become apparent. I should also add that in making these observations, I have concentrated on the risks of smoking natural marijuana, since it is the most effective method of ingesting its active cannabinoids.
Marijuana has often been touted as one of the safest recreational substances available. This is perhaps true; many reputable scientific studies support the conclusion that cocaine, heroine, alcohol, and even cigarettes are more dangerous to the user�s health than marijuana. In addition, the celebrated pharmacological properties of cannabis have led thirty-six states to permit its use as a therapeutic drug for, among others, those suffering from AIDS; various painful, incurable and debilitating illnesses; the harmful side effects of cancer chemotherapy, and glaucoma. Additional research is being conducted concerning the use of marijuana on the treatment of anxiety and mental disorders.
Nonetheless, it would be fallacious to conclude that because the chemicals in marijuana have been found to present fewer dangers than some very harmful substances, the medical or recreational use of marijuana is perfectly safe. In a recreational context, marijuana has been shown to affect health, brain function, and memory. And in a medical context, marijuana is like any other powerful prescription drug: it has potentially dangerous side effects, and the decision to use it to treat patients must involve the same balancing test as the one required for chemotherapy or AZT: do the therapeutic effects of the drug outweigh its harmful effects? Though there are many more studies to be done on this issue, current data shows that the answer to this question may not always be "yes."
People should stop comparing marijuana to other drugs or alcohol. The issue is MARIJUANA.
You're right Bullcat, I have lived under a rock. I'm a prude, and I'm narrowminded, and I'm too sheltered for my own good. Chaim must be wrong about drug use. He's just not modern and hip and does not understand it.
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Some of you people are completely rude.
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Some of you people are completely rude.
Agreed, no need for mockery when people puts themselves out there....
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Agreed, no need for mockery when people puts themselves out there....
That is right!
No one should mock a person for never having smoked pot.
Just because a person has never used drugs...it doesn't mean they haven't lived or don't have any knowledge about it.
And being that young people do read this forum, I would prefer to stand on the side of being anti drugs. Even medicinal...unless there is no other choice.
Not inform them that there are no ill effects from it. Especially, since that is not true. I don't care who legalizes what.
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That is right!
No one should mock a person for never having smoked pot.
Ok. Too bad my words were misconstrued. No one was mocking people "for not smoking pot"...which is a way of twisting other people's words (kind of like what used to be done to Muman before) . Saying that it seems that those who never did it are usually the ones who think pot turns into some acid trip that makes people insane etc is not mocking them like saying they are morons and idiots who have to be ridiculed for their stupid views. And it's very different than saying "people who never smoked should be made fun of"...which I never said either of the last two. But somehow you took offense as if I had said them. If you are able of taking one thing to the opposite extreme then there is nothing you and I can discuss. And in fact, when I am on the forum I am seriously not going to direct myself to you just to keep things peaceful.
I rather not deal with the topic since that may probably get twisted too. Me saying that I'm not going to argue may turn into me "mocking" people for arguing.
I did try medicinal a long time ago and that's why I don't give into the hype, but a few years ago I made a vow I would never touch it again. My Yeshiva-raised frum boyfriend never tried it in his life and we get along. Except unlike about 2% of people in this forum, he doesn't have the virtue of sarcasm.
So we disagree and I'm not interested in arguing about it. If you guys want to keep going and yawning fine. I'm not going to argue with people I don't know over some post online about something I don't do myself even if it became legal. Other than that, I am sorry if my words came out wrong in my initial post.
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bc3,
You don't know what you are talking about, to put it bluntly...
I know better than you. But I have no need to prove anything to you.
Enough with this topic.
The facts will be known, whether you like it or not.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-395704/Cannabis-gateway-harder-drugs.html
Cannabis a 'gateway to harder drugs'
Teenage pot smokers are much more likely to go on to use harder drugs, such as heroin, claims a new report.
Researchers insist they now have scientific proof that cannabis works as a gateway drug and makes young users more physically vulnerable to heroin addiction later in life.
Drugs
• Facts every parent should know
The landmark study is certain to have an impact on the debate over whether to legalise the so-called soft drug.
And it is a major boost for anti-drug campaigners who argue that peer pressure and exposure to dealers peddling marijuana tempts teens to escalate their drug use.
Published in the online scientific journal Neuropsychopharmacology, it claims using cannabis damages the developing brain chemistry in smokers aged under 21, making them more likely to become hooked on heroin.
"Cannabis has very long-term, enduring effects on the brain," said Dr.
Jasmin Hurd, of the Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York, who led the study.
She said her findings provide direct evidence in support of the gateway hypothesis that adolescent cannabis exposure contributes to
greater heroin intake in adulthood.
Using young rats, Hurds team found those exposed to cannabis during adolescence took in much larger doses of heroin when the animals were trained to self-administer it.
The results challenge those who claim that drug experimentation does not affect the brain.
They showed that the brain may "remember" previous usage and subsequently crave a bigger fix of harder drugs.
The experiment using rats was set up to mirror human use as closely as possible.
Hurd and her team looked at rats exposed to the active ingredient in marijuana, THC, during a developmental period similar to human
adolescence. To mimic the relatively small amount used by most teens experimenting with pot, the rodents received periodic, small doses of THC.
As young adults, the animals were fitted with catheters that allowed them to self-administer heroin. The researchers compared the amount and
frequency of their drug use with that of rats that had not been given THC previously.
The THC-exposed rats consistently took larger amounts of the drug.
The researchers also found that the THC-exposed rats showed disturbances in the brain's endogenous opioid system, which is often
popularly referred to as the "reward system" of the brain and, in humans, is involved in experiencing pleasure.
"I was really surprised at how specific and enduring the effects of cannabis were," Hurd added.
Neurologist Jim van Os, a cannabis expert at the University of Maastricht in the Netherlands, said the findings show the drugs
damaging effects on the reward structures of the brain.
He added: There is now overwhelming evidence that nobody in the brains developmental stage under the age of 21 should use
cannabis.
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http://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/marijuana/international-statistics.html
INTERNATIONAL STATISTICS
Over 94 million people in the US have admitted using it at least once.
According to the 2007 National Survey on Drug Use and Health, 2.1 million people in the US abused marijuana for the first time that year.
Among 12- to 17-year-olds, 6.7% were current marijuana users in 2007.
According to US government estimates, domestic marijuana production has increased tenfold over the last twenty-five years: from 1,000 metric tons (2.2 million pounds) in 1981 to 10,000 metric tons (22 million pounds) in 2006. Not surprisingly, 58% of those aged 12 to 17 state that pot is easy to obtain. US marijuana users spent approximately $10.5 billion on the drug in the year 2000.
In 2005, 242,200 emergency room visits in the United States involved marijuana.
According to the US Drug Enforcement Administration, a large percentage of those arrested for crimes test positive for marijuana. Nationwide, 40% of adult males tested positive at the time of their arrest.
Of adults 26 or older who used marijuana before age 15, 62% went on to use cocaine at some point in their lives; 9% went on to use heroin at least once; and 54% made some nonmedical use of mind-altering prescription drugs.
Next to alcohol, marijuana is the second most frequently found substance in the bodies of drivers involved in fatal automobile accidents.
http://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/marijuana/it-s-background.html#alcohol
ALCOHOL VS. MARIJUANA
Is smoking a joint the same as drinking alcohol?
You decide. Here are the facts:
Alcohol consists of one substance only: ethanol. Marijuana contains more than 400 known chemicals, including the same cancer-causing substances found in tobacco smoke. Unlike cigarette smokers, pot smokers tend to inhale deeply and hold the smoke as long as possible to increase the effect of the drug, worsening the damage to the lungs.
Alcohol is eliminated from the body in a few hours, but THC stays in the body for weeks, possibly months, depending on the length and intensity of usage.
THC damages the immune system. Alcohol does not.
There is no intention here to minimize the dangers of alcohol abuse, which can be equally harmful. Users, however, need to be aware that the chemicals in marijuana, some of them cancer-causing, remain in the body long after the drug is taken.
http://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/marijuana/short-and-long-term-effects.html
SHORT-TERM EFFECTS
Sensory distortion
Panic
Anxiety
Poor coordination of movement
Lowered reaction time
After an initial “up,” the user feels sleepy or depressed
Increased heartbeat (and risk of heart attack)
LONG-term effects of marijuana
Reduced resistance to common illnesses (colds, bronchitis, etc.)
Suppression of the immune system
Growth disorders
Increase of abnormally structured cells in the body
Reduction of male sex hormones
Rapid destruction of lung fibers and lesions (injuries) to the brain could be permanent
Reduced sexual capacity
Study difficulties: reduced ability to learn and retain information
Apathy, drowsiness, lack of motivation
Personality and mood changes
Inability to understand things clearly
Pauls Story
“Then I started having negative feelings about myself and my own abilities. I hated the paranoia. I hated looking over my shoulder all the time. I really hated not trusting my friends. I became so paranoid that I successfully drove everyone away and found myself in the terrible place no one wants to be in—I was alone. I’d wake up in the morning and start using and keep using throughout the day.”
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bc3,
You don't know what you are talking about, to put it bluntly...
I know better than you. But I have no need to prove anything to you.
Enough with this topic.
The facts will be known, whether you like it or not.
Are YOUR experiences the basis how the world works?
Is that it? Well, I can say to you...You don't know what you are talking about. I can speak from experience. Years and years of it. So I will risk being proved wrong about the recreational use of any drug and stand by my opinion.
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And one other thought... Why do.all those recreational pot smoker, (the ones who are productive, pay taxes and raise families) who smoke on weekends or a few times a year, freak out when their kids pick up the same habit? I always wondered about that. What about this simple relaxation method scares them?
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And so were the others FACT... And like all science it is only FACT if the study is reproducable.
I can post other studies here which have shown otherwise... But this argument is getting old.
I know for a fact because in 1993 I beat a DWI pot charge very easily. We presented the scientific studies at the time and showed that there was no correlation between use and impaired driving. Granted that was 20 years ago but I doubt that things have changed that much in that time. I also have been looking on google and found some other studies which support my position.
Once again my position, which has not changed during my JTF involvement, is that recreational use should not be legalized. But that medical use (by doctors prescription) should be permitted.
I know you will discount NORML's presentation of the scientific findings on the topic, but I will post it here anyhow....
http://norml.org/library/item/marijuana-and-driving-a-review-of-the-scientific-evidence
Most pot smokers I have known over the years would have been far better off if they never touched the stuff... Long term pot smokers battle two addictions not one... They need the high but they also tend to get a smokers addiction in many cases... Unlike drinking people who smoke pot can have a little smoke now and then throughout the day without it being quickly detected... Spend a little time around a pot smoker and it will quickly become clear how screwed up they actually are...The portability of the drug is what makes it worse than a drinking addiction... People who drink in most cases know they can't show up on the job under the influence or go in with the thought of drinking during working hours without in most cases having it detected... Many pot smokers on the other hand do just that... Personally I would not get into a car, bus, or any other form of transportation with a drunk at the wheel however it's not always so easy to detect someone who might be just as impaired by pot... The best thing the government did some years back was to push drug testing for people in the transportation industry... This testing is not fool proof however it gets a lot of the more sloppy drug users out of the picture... From what I have seen over the years is that pot tends to make it's users lazy and less focused on the larger picture around them... Dedicated users tend to be concerned on getting through the day and getting to the next opportunity to light up... I have been to the homes of a few people I know who indulge and have found the homes habitable but unkempt similar to that of hard core drunks... The convenience of the drug make it to easy to indulge through out the day and all but the most basic tasks seem to be pushed to the back burner... Personally I could care less if pot smokers smoked themselves to death sadly their addictions have consequences for the innocent bystander they often come into contact with.
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And so were the others FACT... And like all science it is only FACT if the study is reproducable.
I can post other studies here which have shown otherwise... But this argument is getting old.
I know for a fact because in 1993 I beat a DWI pot charge very easily. We presented the scientific studies at the time and showed that there was no correlation between use and impaired driving. Granted that was 20 years ago but I doubt that things have changed that much in that time. I also have been looking on google and found some other studies which support my position.
Once again my position, which has not changed during my JTF involvement, is that recreational use should not be legalized. But that medical use (by doctors prescription) should be permitted.
I know you will discount NORML's presentation of the scientific findings on the topic, but I will post it here anyhow....
http://norml.org/library/item/marijuana-and-driving-a-review-of-the-scientific-evidence
Have mercy :::D I hope you don't mean them store front doctors out in Ca. that are dispensing the garbage like legalized pushers... Or worse the poor family doctors who are browbeaten into giving an Rx so they don't have to continue listening to the chronic [censored] and moaning ;D
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While I agree in theory it is dangerous to drive under the influence of marijuana and it probably will cause more crashes, however these reports don't prove that point. Correlation is not (necessarily) causation..
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While I agree in theory it is dangerous to drive under the influence of marijuana and it probably will cause more crashes, however these reports don't prove that point. Correlation is not (necessarily) causation..
More mind-altering drugs mean more incidents involving them, no?
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More mind-altering drugs mean more incidents involving them, no?
It's like talking to brick walls. Some people don't realize the danger until it smacks them right in the face.
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We all knew there would be more traffic accidents, and fatal occurrences from more drugs on the streets...all part of toppling America.
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More mind-altering drugs mean more incidents involving them, no?
I would think so, yes. That said, the statistics cited here don't prove anything. Because now that the drug is legalized more people will be smoking it. There were already x number of accidents per year, now a greater percentage of those accidents involve people with this in their system, since more people smoke, the chances are higher that a person involved in an accident will have it in their system, but that doesn't prove that there was causation involved. A different kind of study needed.
For example, now that more people smoke weed, a higher percentage of people dying from heart attacks will be found to have weed in their system. Doesn't mean weed is causing heart attacks. That's a logical fallacy. BUT it should be obvious that people can't drive as well or with proper judgement wheen under influence of any drug, and that's dangerous.
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I would think so, yes. That said, the statistics cited here don't prove anything. Because now that the drug is legalized more people will be smoking it. There were already x number of accidents per year, now a greater percentage of those accidents involve people with this in their system, since more people smoke, the chances are higher that a person involved in an accident will have it in their system, but that doesn't prove that there was causation involved. A different kind of study needed.
For example, now that more people smoke weed, a higher percentage of people dying from heart attacks will be found to have weed in their system. Doesn't mean weed is causing heart attacks. That's a logical fallacy. BUT it should be obvious that people can't drive as well or with proper judgement wheen under influence of any drug, and that's dangerous.
I hear what you are saying, but a couple people here were going way farther than that, and trying to argue that weed is completely harmless and misunderstood.
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It's like talking to brick walls. Some people don't realize the danger until it smacks them right in the face.
I recognize danger and I think people should basically be free to take informed decisions regarding their lives, including destructive ones. I think restricting liberty hurts some people and benefits others but the bottom line is you should try to minimize the invasiveness and interference by government and law on peoples lives and choices.
Why won't you by the same logic ban flying ultra-lite airplanes and riding motorcycles?
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I recognize danger and I think people should basically be free to take informed decisions regarding their lives, including destructive ones. I think restricting liberty hurts some people and benefits others but the bottom line is you should try to minimize the invasiveness and interference by government and law on peoples lives and choices.
Why won't you by the same logic ban flying ultra-lite airplanes and riding motorcycles?
Where have you been?
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I recognize danger and I think people should basically be free to take informed decisions regarding their lives, including destructive ones. I think restricting liberty hurts some people and benefits others but the bottom line is you should try to minimize the invasiveness and interference by government and law on peoples lives and choices.
Why won't you by the same logic ban flying ultra-lite airplanes and riding motorcycles?
glad you're alive and kicking!
BTW Bikers who follow rules live long lives.
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Where have you been?
I have been (still am) abroad, in London.