JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: jsullivan on August 16, 2007, 03:57:19 AM
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A very prominent Israeli attorney, Yoram Sheftel, has offered to help Chaim Ben Pesach in his long battle to gain Israeli citizenship.
Chaim was expelled from Israel 11 years ago, and has been barred from setting foot in the Holy Land ever since.
Sheftel will first try to convince the Interior Ministry to reverse their evil decision to expel and bar Chaim. If the Interior Ministry does not reverse their immoral decision, then Chaim's supporters in Israel plan to appeal to the Israeli Supreme Court.
Now Chaim needs letters of support from prominent people in the United States and Israel who agree with us that it was a grotesque injustice to prevent Chaim from making aliyah while at the same time inviting the Arab Hitler Yasser Arafat and 80,000 Muslim Nazi terrorist mass murderers from the PLO/Fatah into the Holy Land. Arafat and the 80,000 PLO/Fatah terrorists murdered 1800 innocent Jewish men, women and children after the Israeli government invited them in.
What can we do to help Chaim? Who should we write to, to try to get letters of support from prominent people? Should we have a mass demonstration at the Israeli Consulate demanding that Chaim be allowed to make aliyah?
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I in!
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Why should they care what "prominent people in the United States" think?
I think someone like Avigdor Lieberman and others who made aliyah from the USSR, should be obligated to help since the JDL helped Soviet Jewry.
With all his media exposure, is Rabbi Schmuley Boteach considered prominent? With his media appearances and also considering that I believe he's supposed to start a TV show in Israel, would he be considered prominent? Boteach supports I think he'd be in favor of Chaim being allowed to make aliyah. Would Lubab know if Boteach would be in favor of Chaim?
Although I disagree with some things he's said at times, his views tend to be better than many liberal rabbis.
Schmuley has stated the following:
"At every available opportunity the Rebbe reached out to non-Jews. Several times a year, when his live addresses were broadcast on national television, he always addressed the mainstream public. Whether the subject was the need for a moment of prayerful silence in public schools, or a call to greater acts of charity, the Rebbe made it clear that outreach to the widest possible audience was his intention.
Most importantly, he made it a central staple of Chabad outreach to teach the universal code of morality, as embodied in the Bible's Noachide covenant, to all non-Jews. "
He also stated:
"This is a subject that is extremely close to my heart. Three months after the Rebbe's death I was summoned from my station in Oxford to a meeting of the Chabad leadership in London, where I was told that I would have to rescind the membership of 5,000 non-Jewish students because too many in Anglo-Jewry complained that their participation diluted the Jewish character of our organization."
So I think he would be pleased that Chaim supports having a good relationship with Christians, especially those who support the Noahide Laws.
He also has contacts with Giuliani. Giuliani made it known that he considered Arafat to be a terrorist. However, if JTF could get Boteach to write a letter of support for Chaim, I'm not sure if it would be good or not to try and get him to have Giuliani do the same.
There are some conservatives who are so opposed to Giuliani that they will look for any excuse to bash him. If it were to get in the media that Giuliani supports Chaim being allowed to make Aliyah, there'd probably be lots of people who know nothing about Chaim who would try and bash him and consequently, make it look bad for Giuliani.
When I've mentioned Boteach's name on this forum in the past, there have been some disagreements. However, unless anyone else has any other ideas, he might be one of the few people who Israel's courts would consider prominent. I'm not saying he's a better rabbi than most others in the US, just that he's more well-known due to his media appearances.
In summary, I have no idea who from the US, Israel's court would consider to be prominent. I think
someone like Boteach could be good enough. Although Chaim probably disagrees with Boteach on some things Boteach has written or said, more than I disagree with him, I think Chaim could put his differences aside in exchange for an endorsement; they probably agree more than they disagree.
Is Debbie Schlussel considered prominent enough? She's written newspaper columns and sometimes makes television and radio appearances. I think she definitely would write a letter on behalf of Chaim. However, maybe they'd consider her to be too anti-Bolshevik for them. I'm not sure. Olmert would probably go crazy if he knew anything about her and saw a letter of endorsement from her.
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B"H
Whatever I can do to help, I will.
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Was'nt Yoram Sheftel the lawyer who defended Ivan Demjajuk?
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He's a good lawyer he likes controversy
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I'm in!
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Chaim: Talk about self-hating Jews, Yoram Sheftel is the attorney who defended Ukranian Jew-killer JOHN (IVAN)DEMJANJUK. He was so hated that someone threw acid in his face. He sounds like a real Ron Kuby. Do you really want to be represented by "Satan's Lawyer-The most hated man in Israel"?
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I don'nt think he liked Ivan just defended him,this could be his repentence
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How about right wing Rabbi's Daniel Lapin and Aryeh Spero?
http://www.towardtradition.org
http://www.caucusforamerica.com
Rabbi Lapin does lots of outreach with conservative Christian organizations, and Rabbi Spero was involved in that protest against the New York Times a while back.
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He also defended Nadia Matar
http://www.israpundit.com/2006/?p=1764
Yoram Sheftel’s Opening Statement on behalf of Nadia Matar
Anyone who was not present to hear Adv. Yoram Sheftel’s opening statement in the courtroom of the Jerusalem Magistrates’ Court on Wednesday, June 14, 2006, simply missed a historic event.
Adv. Sheftel represents the Chairperson of Women in Green, Nadia Matar, who is charged with “insulting a public servant” because of a letter that she sent to the head of the Deportation Administration, Yonatan Basi, in which she compared him to the Judenrat (to read the letter: .)
Unfortunately, taping court proceedings is forbidden, and all that remains of Adv. Yoram Sheftel’s opening statement is what was typed by the stenographer, in a document entitled “The Protocol.” After reading this Protocol, it became clear to us all that, unfortunately, the
stenographer did not succeed in following what Adv. Sheftel said, and she did not type this properly. Spelling mistakes, the lack of vocalization, and sentences that were not typed or were left uncompleted turn this document into a horror instead of enjoyable reading. Because of the importance of Adv. Sheftel’s statement, the Women in Green executive resolved to attempt to reconstruct the gist of the statement, based on the adequate passages in the Protocol and working closely with Adv. Sheftel.
The following is an abstract of what happened and was said on the first day of the trial, Justice David Mintz presiding.
Adv. Yoram Sheftel requested that the judge exercise his authority under Section 150 of the Criminal Code and discharge the charges, by allowing the pleading of the defense “on the grounds of justice.” In a fascinating speech, almost one hour long, Sheftel substantiated his request by citing numerous examples from the recent and more distant past of people who said, and even did, much more serious things, but were not placed on trial. (The examples will be listed, one after the other, below.) All these examples prove that this is a case of “selective law enforcement founded on invalid political considerations and/or on cowardice.” Adv. Sheftel showed that anyone who belongs to the leftist camp can say and claim whatever he pleases, even if such statements constitute a clear violation of the law, and the State Attorney’s office will not lift a finger. In contrast, anyone who belongs to the patriotic and Zionist camp is liable to be placed on trial, even if it is highly doubtful whether his statements constitute an offense.
The prosecutor responded to the long list of examples brought by Sheftel by stating that what Sheftel said might be correct when a clearly political figure is insulted, but have no force regarding a simple “public servant” like Yonatan Basi. Adv. Sheftel replied, in a most convincing argument, that Yonatan Basi is not the average “public servant,” who falls under the protection of the law (such as a policeman who issues a parking ticket), rather, Yonatan Basi is a completely political appointment, an individual who volunteered (albeit for pay) to implement the deportation crime.
At the end of the lengthy court session, the judge asked the prosecutor whether it was really worthwhile to continue with this trial, and actually broadly hinted that it might be worthwhile for the State Attorney’s Office to retract the indictment- which would prevent the further public dissemination of what Nadia Matar had said. The next court session was set for September 10, 2006.
The most fascinating section of Adv. Sheftel’s statement consists of the many examples that he cited in support of his argument that there is no legal and/or public basis for the charges. The following is Adv. Sheftel’s statement, based on the Protocol:
cotinued on above link
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I'll support Chaim 100%!
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Count me in!
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This is great and I urge everyone to stand firm on this and fight with Chaim that he can make his dream come true. He deserves it. It may be tough with the leftists, but any American citizen on this forum if we mention to the government of Israel, if they want to be known as a democracy then prove it. We owe it to Chaim he has sacraficed a lot for so many it is now time for us to stand on this issue.
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Yoram Sheftel did indeed defend the Nazi war criminal Demanyuk, yimach shmo vezichro. And Sheftel got him acquitted.
What Sheftel did with Demanyuk was a disgrace. Sheftel usually defends rightwing Jews like Nadia Matar from Women in Green and the Jewish teenage girls who were placed in prison for months because they engaged in civil disobedience to protest the expulsion in Gush Katif. Sheftel often defends these rightwing Jews for free. So I can't understand how he could defend the monster Demanyuk. But he did.
Maybe it was just ego. Sheftel is a brilliant and highly respected attorney who might have wanted to prove that he could even get a beast like Demanyuk acquitted. Whatever his reasons, there is no excuse. We do not defend his actions in the Demanyuk case, in fact we condemn what he did in that case.
When Sheftel heard about what was done to Chaim, he volunteered to represent Chaim. Although he usually defends rightwing Jews, Sheftel is respected by the Bolshevik Israeli Supreme Court. Sheftel is also feared by many on the left.
Sheftel does a weekly audio program on Arutz 7 (in Hebrew), in which he takes rightwing positions.
But because of what he did with the monster Demanyuk, this is no simple matter morally. Chaim decided to accept Sheftel's offer of help because Chaim believes that it is essential to the Jewish cause that he be allowed to make aliyah (immigrate to Israel). Chaim believes that this could ultimately save many Jewish lives if G-d willing he wins his battle to get into Israel.
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I agree wholeheartedly, Jimmy.
I would dance with the 'devil' himself to save a Jewish life. Chaim is 100% right in this instance and need not apologise to anyone.
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This is great news I pray Chaim gets his wish. Jimmy please keep us posted on whatever is needed to make this happen. As far as the lawyer goes sometimes there are issues that prompt a lawyer to take on a case such as with Demanyuk that they normally would not. He is assisting Chaim so lets give him the benefit of the doubt.
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Now is the time to start distributing this video: http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=5227.0
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Pat Robertson is a friend of my family. My Uncle on my father's side (who is not Jewish) was in charge of the 700 Club and they used to eat dinner together. I *might* be able to get a letter from him. Would that help at all? I'll ask my Aunt. I'm not sure how close they are anymore but if it will help, it's worth a shot.
I'll do anything I can to help... just name it. Want me to fly somewhere?
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Pat Robertson is a friend of my family. My Uncle on my father's side (who is not Jewish) was in charge of the 700 Club and they used to eat dinner together. I *might* be able to get a letter from him. Would that help at all? I'll ask my Aunt. I'm not sure how close they are anymore but if it will help, it's worth a shot.
I'll do anything I can to help... just name it. Want me to fly somewhere?
Of course, a letter from Pat Robertson would help a great deal!
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I do hope that Chaim will be able to go to Israel. I hope we all get to see it happen. God willing!!!!!
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Pat Robertson is a friend of my family. I *might* be able to get a letter from him. Would that help at all?
Of course, a letter from Pat Robertson would help a great deal!
Holy Cow! Obviously, that would help, and Pat Robertson is a TRUE ally of the Jewish People.
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Wow Jeffguy, that is a great connection. I think Pat Robertson would help. I hope Chaim gets in but I hope we have a JTF meeting with him before he leaves so we can say goodbye. I will do whatever I can to help but unfortunately I don't have any good connections nor do I know famous people.
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Just of a note of a Christian friend of Israel. Pastor John Hagee is a staunch advocate of Israel and the Jewish people and does not believe in preaching our Theology to the Jewish people.
I beg you too watch this link. http://youtube.com/watch?v=9Iv1Wz5SgSQ (http://youtube.com/watch?v=9Iv1Wz5SgSQ)
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Yes but no one knows Pastor Hagee who is a great man personally like Jeffguy knows Pat Robertson
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Agreed !
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I'm going to really try... I don't know what the status is on that... but you better believe I'm going to try.
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Too try and fail, is far worse than not trying at all. Best of luck on this issue Jeff.
Which I may add is a very great name ;)
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I'm going to really try... I don't know what the status is on that... but you better believe I'm going to try.
The hardest part may be convincing your uncle.
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Pat Robertson is a friend of my family. My Uncle on my father's side (who is not Jewish) was in charge of the 700 Club and they used to eat dinner together. I *might* be able to get a letter from him. Would that help at all? I'll ask my Aunt. I'm not sure how close they are anymore but if it will help, it's worth a shot.
I'll do anything I can to help... just name it. Want me to fly somewhere?
Hey Jeff it looks like you had another ACE up your sleeve! Great... I'll help anyway I can.
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I have a feeling that Chaim will be in Israel in no time, with G-d's help.
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I have a felling that Chaim will be in Israel in no time, with G-d's help.
I agree . :)
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I will address my petitions to the Supreme Justice of the Universe.
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Just of a note of a Christian friend of Israel. Pastor John Hagee is a staunch advocate of Israel and the Jewish people and does not believe in preaching our Theology to the Jewish people.
I beg you too watch this link. http://youtube.com/watch?v=9Iv1Wz5SgSQ (http://youtube.com/watch?v=9Iv1Wz5SgSQ)
Jeff, this is a great video! thanks I made it a favorite
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A very prominent Israeli attorney, Yoram Sheftel, has offered to help Chaim Ben Pesach in his long battle to gain Israeli citizenship.
Chaim was expelled from Israel 11 years ago, and has been barred from setting foot in the Holy Land ever since.
Sheftel will first try to convince the Interior Ministry to reverse their evil decision to expel and bar Chaim. If the Interior Ministry does not reverse their immoral decision, then Chaim's supporters in Israel plan to appeal to the Israeli Supreme Court.
Now Chaim needs letters of support from prominent people in the United States and Israel who agree with us that it was a grotesque injustice to prevent Chaim from making aliyah while at the same time inviting the Arab Hitler Yasser Arafat and 80,000 Muslim Nazi terrorist mass murderers from the PLO/Fatah into the Holy Land. Arafat and the 80,000 PLO/Fatah terrorists murdered 1800 innocent Jewish men, women and children after the Israeli government invited them in.
What can we do to help Chaim? Who should we write to, to try to get letters of support from prominent people? Should we have a mass demonstration at the Israeli Consulate demanding that Chaim be allowed to make aliyah?
We should have the demonstration and the letters. We need a full court press applying pressure on the Israeli government every way we know how. On the internet, on the phones, with faxes, with e-mails, with demonstrations with prayer to G-d.
All of the above.
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Lets just hope Chaim gets in because the need is great for his presence in Israel to overthrow evil Bolshevism
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I hope we have a JTF goodbye dinner for Chaim before he leaves to the holy land.
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It looks like I will be joining Chaim in a year and a half or two years. I plan to move to Israel after I finish Queens College.
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Chaim's announcement has created a great deal of premature euphoria on both the Hebrew and English forums. Our wonderful, well-meaning members are writing as if we have already won.
The truth is that it will be not be easy to get Chaim into Israel. G-d willing, we will succeed but it certainly will not be easy.
The Interior Minister Meir Shitreet will decide whether to reverse the decision to expel Chaim and prevent him from becoming an Israeli citizen. Shitreet is an extreme leftist. So convincing him will be no simple matter.
If Shitreet rejects our appeal, G-d forbid, then we must appeal to the Israeli Supreme Court, which is comprised of extreme leftwing, self-hating judges. Does anyone really think that it will be easy to win that appeal?
This does NOT mean that it is hopeless. The decision to expel and bar Chaim while inviting the Arab Hitler Arafat and 80,000 Fatah terrorist murderers into Israel is an extremely unpopular decision among most Israelis. Most Israelis who are made aware of this case do not at all agree with what was done to Chaim. So we do have a chance to reverse this evil decision if Shitreet the political opportunist believes that it will hurt him politically to continue to bar Chaim. Or if the Supreme Court judges believe that a decision against Chaim will cause the Israeli public to turn against them.
But let's be realistic here. G-d willing, we have a chance to win, but this will not be easy!
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Does anyone know the email for the Israeli foreign ministry? Cant find it on the website and I dont read Hebrew well anymore.
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What is the official reason Chaim is banned from entering Israel ?
It's unlikely the official reason is his politics.
I'd be willing to bet the Bolsheviks claim it's due to his criminal record.
Assuming Shitreet upholds the ban based on this factor, an appeal to the Israeli Supreme Court will be very interesting.
It's hard to imagine the ISC finding that a person's criminal record in America, would be sufficient to deny him entry and citizenship, especially when the person has served his prison time and avoided further trouble.
Denying Chaim the ability to make aliyah is obviously a miscarriage of justice, but that's what the Bolshevik blowhards excel at; denying justice to the Jews that love Israel- and the Jewish people- the most.
May Chaim's wish to live in Eretz Yisrael be granted. No one deserves it more.
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Someone should make one of those online petitions i'm not a good writer someone who is should write it up
http://www.petitiononline.com/petition.html
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Anyone here who's jewish, and capable should learn torah for his zchus(merit), or say tehillim(psalms), non-jews should definitely read some psalms, but there is a prohibition agasint non-jews learning certain parts of the torah and I am not qualified to say which parts a non-jew can and cant learn, so i think it's safer to have the non-jews read psalsm, and have the jews learn torah.
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Anyone here who's jewish, and capable should learn torah for his zchus(merit), or say tehillim(psalms), non-jews should definitely read some psalms, but there is a prohibition agasint non-jews learning certain parts of the torah and I am not qualified to say which parts a non-jew can and cant learn, so i think it's safer to have the non-jews read psalsm, and have the jews learn torah.
How is this relevant to this thread? ???
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Anyone here who's jewish, and capable should learn torah for his zchus(merit), or say tehillim(psalms), non-jews should definitely read some psalms, but there is a prohibition agasint non-jews learning certain parts of the torah and I am not qualified to say which parts a non-jew can and cant learn, so i think it's safer to have the non-jews read psalsm, and have the jews learn torah.
How is this relevant to this thread? ???
it's relevant because it may help him..torah learning and recitation of tehillim can work wonders
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Anyone here who's jewish, and capable should learn torah for his zchus(merit), or say tehillim(psalms), non-jews should definitely read some psalms, but there is a prohibition agasint non-jews learning certain parts of the torah and I am not qualified to say which parts a non-jew can and cant learn, so i think it's safer to have the non-jews read psalsm, and have the jews learn torah.
How is this relevant to this thread? ???
it's relevant because it may help him..torah learning and recitation of tehillim can work wonders
Okay, didn't catch that you were talking about helping Chaim. Sorry for my reading comprehension issue. It's obviously too early for me. :D
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Anyone here who's jewish, and capable should learn torah for his zchus(merit), or say tehillim(psalms), non-jews should definitely read some psalms, but there is a prohibition agasint non-jews learning certain parts of the torah and I am not qualified to say which parts a non-jew can and cant learn, so i think it's safer to have the non-jews read psalsm, and have the jews learn torah.
How is this relevant to this thread? ???
it's relevant because it may help him..torah learning and recitation of tehillim can work wonders
Okay, didn't catch that you were talking about helping Chaim. Sorry for my reading comprehension issue. It's obviously too early for me. :D
No problem :)
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What is the official reason Chaim is banned from entering Israel ?
It's unlikely the official reason is his politics.
I'd be willing to bet the Bolsheviks claim it's due to his criminal record.
Assuming Shitreet upholds the ban based on this factor, an appeal to the Israeli Supreme Court will be very interesting.
It's hard to imagine the ISC finding that a person's criminal record in America, would be sufficient to deny him entry and citizenship, especially when the person has served his prison time and avoided further trouble.
Denying Chaim the ability to make aliyah is obviously a miscarriage of justice, but that's what the Bolshevik blowhards excel at; denying justice to the Jews that love Israel- and the Jewish people- the most.
May Chaim's wish to live in Eretz Yisrael be granted. No one deserves it more.
That's a good question. Yacov posted a bio on another thread that said "Chaim is banned from entering Israel because of his support of the late Rabbi Meir Kahane's Kach Party, which has been outlawed in Israel." I had always thought it was because of his criminal record as well.
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Someone should make one of those online petitions i'm not a good writer someone who is should write it up
http://www.petitiononline.com/petition.html
Make a petition online i'm not good at writing
http://www.petitiononline.com/petition.html
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JSullivan,
Do the interior minister or judges care about their approval ratings? Olmert released terrorists recently despite having an approval rating of no higher than 10%. So we know that Olmert obviously doesn't care about his.
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JSullivan,
Do the interior minister or judges care about their approval ratings? Olmert released terrorists recently despite having an approval rating of no higher than 10%. So we know that Olmert obviously doesn't care about his.
Shitreet has said that his goal is to become Prime Minister someday. So he has to be concerned about public opinion. The problem is he may feel that the type of Jews who support Chaim would never vote for a leftist like Shitreet in any event. So he may feel that he has nothing to gain by letting Chaim in. We have to convince him that it would be wise for him to let Chaim in.
If it gets to the Supreme Court, I don't know how much they care about public opinion. I assume they care to a certain extent.
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JSullivan,
Do the interior minister or judges care about their approval ratings? Olmert released terrorists recently despite having an approval rating of no higher than 10%. So we know that Olmert obviously doesn't care about his.
Shitreet has said that his goal is to become Prime Minister someday. So he has to be concerned about public opinion. The problem is he may feel that the type of Jews who support Chaim would never vote for a leftist like Shitreet in any event. So he may feel that he has nothing to gain by letting Chaim in. We have to convince him that it would be wise for him to let Chaim in.
If it gets to the Supreme Court, I don't know how much they care about public opinion. I assume they care to a certain extent.
Israel's leftist, activist, anti-Jewish Supreme Court worries the heck out of me as far as Chaim's citizenship is concerned. :(
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All the leftists care about are bribes if Chaim or someone put 100.000 dollars in their bank account he would get in
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I will never understand how the Israeli government allow Muslim serpents freely in the Holy Land and Chaim is banned, but then again I will never understand how Illegal Alien vermin can walk freely in the United States and we have border agents rotting in jail for doing what they are suppose to do.
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Chaim: What is the OFFICIAL reason you were kept out of Israel in the first place?
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Someone should make one of those online petitions i'm not a good writer someone who is should write it up
http://www.petitiononline.com/petition.html
Make a petition online i'm not good at writing
http://www.petitiononline.com/petition.html
Here, I started writing the text of the petition. Let's upload the text of this to the JTF wiki. Then we can all work on the text until it's pefect. Then we can send it out.
Here's what I have so far.
Help Correct a Grave Injustice..Let Chaim Ben Pesach into Israel to live his dream.
Let me tell you about a man in his fifties named Chaim Ben Pesach (Enlglish: Victor Vancier). As a young man his dream was to move to Israel and have lots of kids. But his love for the land of Israel, great as it was, was only overshadowed for his love of the Jewish people.
So when Chaim ben Pesach was called upon by Rabbi Meir Kahane to be in charge of the campaign to free the Jews trapped under the cluches of a Stalinist government in the former U.S.S.R. Chaim Ben Pesach answered the call.
As head of the Jewish Defensee League at the time he knew if he was not going to do something for the Jews oppressed and killed on a daily basis in Communist Russia, nobody would....
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This is great news. G-d willing the time is soon for Chaim. I hope we can finalize plans on how all forum members can help.
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JTF needs to figure out how to contact Joe Farah through his WorldNetDaily site. I think he would be willing to write a letter of support for Chaim.
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We want to begin an e-mail campaign to Knesset (Israeli Parliament) members. There are 50 Knesset members that we want to concentrate on.
Is anyone here knowledgeable about the technicalities of e-mailing? Specifically, we need to know:
Can you e-mail 50 Knesset members with just one e-mail without the Knesset members seeing that their colleagues are also being e-mailed? Because if they see that they are just one on a list of 50 people getting the e-mail, they are very unlikely to respond. And we need them to respond and respond positively. So can you send 50 people the same e-mail without them seeing the names of the other 49 recipients?
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We want to begin an e-mail campaign to Knesset (Israeli Parliament) members. There are 50 Knesset members that we want to concentrate on.
Is anyone here knowledgeable about the technicalities of e-mailing? Specifically, we need to know:
Can you e-mail 50 Knesset members with just one e-mail without the Knesset members seeing that their colleagues are also being e-mailed? Because if they see that they are just one on a list of 50 people getting the e-mail, they are very unlikely to respond. And we need them to respond and respond positively. So can you send 50 people the same e-mail without them seeing the names of the other 49 recipients?
Blind Copy ("BC") your email message. The only problem with this is that they will either see that they have been blind copied or not see their actual address in the From field, depending on the email client they use. The down side is that they may assume that they have been bulk emailed (because of the BC) even though they won't see the other email addresses.
Another option is to use a bulk emailer, like spammers use. There are freeware versions available at no cost and it will have the benefit of appearing like a personalized email message.
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How do you do the blind copy? Forgive my complete ignorance, but I don't see BCE. I just see CC and BCC.
Also, can you send a blind copy to 50 recipients, with all 50 receiving the e-mail but none of them seeing the other recipients? I know that they will assume that others received the e-mail as well, but as long as they don't see who received the e-mail, we might be able to get them to respond.
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How do you do the blind copy? Forgive my complete ignorance, but I don't see BCE. I just see CC and BCC.
Also, can you send a blind copy to 50 recipients, with all 50 receiving the e-mail but none of them seeing the other recipients? I know that they will assume that others received the e-mail as well, but as long as they don't see who received the e-mail, we might be able to get them to respond.
It's BCC. I guess the forum has a rule that changes "B""C" to B.C.E.
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Thanks.
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JSullivan,
Do the interior minister or judges care about their approval ratings? Olmert released terrorists recently despite having an approval rating of no higher than 10%. So we know that Olmert obviously doesn't care about his.
Shitreet has said that his goal is to become Prime Minister someday. So he has to be concerned about public opinion. The problem is he may feel that the type of Jews who support Chaim would never vote for a leftist like Shitreet in any event. So he may feel that he has nothing to gain by letting Chaim in. We have to convince him that it would be wise for him to let Chaim in.
If it gets to the Supreme Court, I don't know how much they care about public opinion. I assume they care to a certain extent.
Good observation. In my heart I don't really know if we can ever count on the majority of Israelis to support Chaim in this, because most are leftists. (I know most of JTF disagrees with me but this is my opinion.)
Now, Jimmy, we need to have some addresses posted. Can we make a sticky with some key email/snail-mail addresses?
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B.C.C. -ing the Knesset Members is not a wise strategy. First, every letter should be personalized so that the Knesset Member feels you are taking the time to really write him/her.
Making Chaim's appeal personal is a MUCH better course of action. It might take longer, but it is more professional, and I am sure, more appreciated.
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As much as I disagree with almost everything that Chaim argues, I think it silly and very unfair to deny anything to someone because of their beliefs.
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How do you do the blind copy? Forgive my complete ignorance, but I don't see BCE. I just see CC and BCC.
Also, can you send a blind copy to 50 recipients, with all 50 receiving the e-mail but none of them seeing the other recipients? I know that they will assume that others received the e-mail as well, but as long as they don't see who received the e-mail, we might be able to get them to respond.
Yes, none of them will see the other recipients.
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We want to begin an e-mail campaign to Knesset (Israeli Parliament) members. There are 50 Knesset members that we want to concentrate on.
Is anyone here knowledgeable about the technicalities of e-mailing? Specifically, we need to know:
Can you e-mail 50 Knesset members with just one e-mail without the Knesset members seeing that their colleagues are also being e-mailed? Because if they see that they are just one on a list of 50 people getting the e-mail, they are very unlikely to respond. And we need them to respond and respond positively. So can you send 50 people the same e-mail without them seeing the names of the other 49 recipients?
Jimmy, we can use the Newsletter feauture of this forum, if it's fixed. If not, let me know, we will setup a separate newsletter software.
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We want to begin an e-mail campaign to Knesset (Israeli Parliament) members. There are 50 Knesset members that we want to concentrate on.
Is anyone here knowledgeable about the technicalities of e-mailing? Specifically, we need to know:
Can you e-mail 50 Knesset members with just one e-mail without the Knesset members seeing that their colleagues are also being e-mailed? Because if they see that they are just one on a list of 50 people getting the e-mail, they are very unlikely to respond. And we need them to respond and respond positively. So can you send 50 people the same e-mail without them seeing the names of the other 49 recipients?
Jimmy, we can use the Newsletter feauture of this forum, if it's fixed. If not, let me know, we will setup a separate newsletter software.
Can the newsletter feature be used to personalize the email message? I must agree that Blind CC is not a good way to go about this if you want to appear to be sending a personal email. As I mentioned earlier, bulk emailers are designed to allow you to do what you want and add personalization to the email message.
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We want to begin an e-mail campaign to Knesset (Israeli Parliament) members. There are 50 Knesset members that we want to concentrate on.
Is anyone here knowledgeable about the technicalities of e-mailing? Specifically, we need to know:
Can you e-mail 50 Knesset members with just one e-mail without the Knesset members seeing that their colleagues are also being e-mailed? Because if they see that they are just one on a list of 50 people getting the e-mail, they are very unlikely to respond. And we need them to respond and respond positively. So can you send 50 people the same e-mail without them seeing the names of the other 49 recipients?
Yes, you can do this. I have software that can mass email if you have a mail server to send from. You can make it from and to whomever you want or you can personalize each email with the person's name or other information.
It is very easy to do and setup.
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We want to begin an e-mail campaign to Knesset (Israeli Parliament) members. There are 50 Knesset members that we want to concentrate on.
Is anyone here knowledgeable about the technicalities of e-mailing? Specifically, we need to know:
Can you e-mail 50 Knesset members with just one e-mail without the Knesset members seeing that their colleagues are also being e-mailed? Because if they see that they are just one on a list of 50 people getting the e-mail, they are very unlikely to respond. And we need them to respond and respond positively. So can you send 50 people the same e-mail without them seeing the names of the other 49 recipients?
Yes, you can do this. I have software that can mass email if you have a mail server to send from. You can make it from and to whomever you want or you can personalize each email with the person's name or other information.
It is very easy to do and setup.
Yes, that's what you need to use.
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We want to begin an e-mail campaign to Knesset (Israeli Parliament) members. There are 50 Knesset members that we want to concentrate on.
Is anyone here knowledgeable about the technicalities of e-mailing? Specifically, we need to know:
Can you e-mail 50 Knesset members with just one e-mail without the Knesset members seeing that their colleagues are also being e-mailed? Because if they see that they are just one on a list of 50 people getting the e-mail, they are very unlikely to respond. And we need them to respond and respond positively. So can you send 50 people the same e-mail without them seeing the names of the other 49 recipients?
The best thing for this is the Mail Merge feature in Microsoft Word. You can send each person a personalised e-mail with it, so they would never suspect that it was mass mailed.
Here is a tutorial on how to use the feature: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/help/HA010349201033.aspx
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The fact that Chaim is not allowed in Israel, and Olmert gives up land too animals that want the Jews dead,,,
makes me physically sick too my stomach.
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Can't agree with you more.
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What can we do to help get him in?
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The way i see there are three things we can do
1. Influence jews in Israel to become part of our movement in an attempt to rally Chaim's case
2. mail the members of the kenneset to get Chaim in
3. Pray, Pray PRAY...
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I thought Mr. Sheftel fought to stop lawyers for Ivan Demjajuk yshv winning the case! Veery confusing, Mr. Sheftel does fight for the Yesha community I think, he defends their rights.
In any event all the great posters will no doubt, I am sure, come together fro Chaim and fight to have him allowed entry into his homeland.
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These are the names of his 2 books: :(
Defending "Ivan the Terrible": The Conspiracy to Convict John Demjanjuk
The Demjanjuk Affair by Yoram Sheftel and Haim Watzman
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I think it's wonderful that Chaim is applying for Israeli citizenship again. While I disagree with a lot of what Chaim says and have a lot of ambivalence and mixed feelings about many other things he says, the one thing I fully agree with is that Chaim should definitely be able to make Aliyah. He has already paid his debts to society and he deserves to receive his proper redemption. I dream of the day that we can all meet at JFK Airport (or wherever he would depart from) and shake his hand and wish him all the best. In the meantime, I am fully willing to participate in whatever cause there is which will help him get into Israel. I would then really like to see what a big influence Chaim will make in Israel and to expand the movement. Regardless of the outcome of all of the movement's efforts, I strongly believe that the competition of ideas and political parties should be able to take place without intimidation, persecution, or banning.
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I think it's wonderful that Chaim is applying for Israeli citizenship again. While I disagree with a lot of what Chaim says and have a lot of ambivalence and mixed feelings about many other things he says, the one thing I fully agree with is that Chaim should definitely be able to make Aliyah. He has already paid his debts to society and he deserves to receive his proper redemption. I dream of the day that we can all meet at JFK Airport (or wherever he would depart from) and shake his hand and wish him all the best. In the meantime, I am fully willing to participate in whatever cause there is which will help him get into Israel. I would then really like to see what a big influence Chaim will make in Israel and to expand the movement. Regardless of the outcome of all of the movement's efforts, I strongly believe that the competition of ideas and political parties should be able to take place without intimidation, persecution, or banning.
Their seems to be an underlying message in this post that is less than altruistic.
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This Daniel guy is full of BS. He's had a swipe at Chaim on 2 or 3 threads and he sticks up for muzzies!
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This Daniel guy is full of BS. He's had a swipe at Chaim on 2 or 3 threads and he sticks up for muzzies!
Exactly!! He and Imerica were yucking it up a few months ago over the very same post. It seems Chaim is a touch to outspoken for their delicate sensibilities.
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How would it work if he were to marry a girl from there, does marriage get you in automatically?
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I think it would help him greatly.
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My brother in law got a permanent resident card for the US in about 8 weeks after he married my sister, which is why I was wondering if it was the same or similar.
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To be honest I am only working off what I hear but I don't think in Chaim's case it would make it a "sho in". I think it would only make it harder for them to deny him access to Israel.
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This is wonderful news! Yes, this can help.
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This Daniel guy is full of BS. He's had a swipe at Chaim on 2 or 3 threads and he sticks up for muzzies!
So eloquent! I find it absolutely astounding that you guys express yourselves in the same exact way as the holocaust denying nazi posters do on Frank Weltner's videos. While you're both on the complete opposite extreme ends of the issues, the ways you express yourselves are exactly identical. Just replace terms like "muslims" and "muzzies" with "zionists" and "zionazis", and the rest of the wording is exactly identical. Both you and the Jew-haters attack me in the same exact manner! Amazing!
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This Daniel guy is full of BS. He's had a swipe at Chaim on 2 or 3 threads and he sticks up for muzzies!
So eloquent! I find it absolutely astounding that you guys express yourselves in the same exact way as the holocaust denying nazi posters do on Frank Weltner's videos. While you're both on the complete opposite extreme ends of the issues, the ways you express yourselves are exactly identical. Just replace terms like "muslims" and "muzzies" with "zionists" and "zionazis", and the rest of the wording is exactly identical. Both you and the Jew-haters attack me in the same exact manner! Amazing!
And by the way, my intention is not to take "swipes" at Chaim. My intention is to "challenge" him which is something he welcomes and can more than handle.
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This Daniel guy is full of BS. He's had a swipe at Chaim on 2 or 3 threads and he sticks up for muzzies!
So eloquent! I find it absolutely astounding that you guys express yourselves in the same exact way as the holocaust denying nazi posters do on Frank Weltner's videos. While you're both on the complete opposite extreme ends of the issues, the ways you express yourselves are exactly identical. Just replace terms like "muslims" and "muzzies" with "zionists" and "zionazis", and the rest of the wording is exactly identical. Both you and the Jew-haters attack me in the same exact manner! Amazing!
Moral equivalence here.....How typical.
Next he'll be saying the IDF are as bad as the PLO.
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This Daniel guy is full of BS. He's had a swipe at Chaim on 2 or 3 threads and he sticks up for muzzies!
So eloquent! I find it absolutely astounding that you guys express yourselves in the same exact way as the holocaust denying nazi posters do on Frank Weltner's videos. While you're both on the complete opposite extreme ends of the issues, the ways you express yourselves are exactly identical. Just replace terms like "muslims" and "muzzies" with "zionists" and "zionazis", and the rest of the wording is exactly identical. Both you and the Jew-haters attack me in the same exact manner! Amazing!
Moral equivalence here.....How typical.
Next he'll be saying the IDF are as bad as the PLO.
Actually, I was pointing out the netiquette equivalence or lack thereof here.
If the IDF engaged in suicide bombings for the purpose of targeting as many innocent civilians as possible, then yes, I would. But they don't.
Moral equivalence is a response to moral relativism. But wait a minute. Moral relativism is wrong and evil. So if moral equivalence and moral relativism are polar opposites, why can they both possibly be wrong? What's good for the goose isn't necessarily good for the gander? What kind of morality are we left with when it is not applied equally? Doesn't that just lead to hypocrisy where the rules apply to some but not to all? Or am I just misunderstanding what moral equivalence is?
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"Moral equivalence is a response to moral relativism. But wait a minute. Moral relativism is wrong and evil. So if moral equivalence and moral relativism are polar opposites, why can they both possibly be wrong? What's good for the goose isn't necessarily good for the gander? What kind of morality are we left with when it is not applied equally? Doesn't that just lead to hypocrisy where the rules apply to some but not to all? Or am I just misunderstanding what moral equivalence is?"
Yes, apparently you are.
Moral equivalence is a result of moral relativism.
However, they are not polar opposites.
On the contrary, they're closely related.
Those who make the mistake of denying that there is an objective reality, and that not everything is subjective, suffer from both moral relativism and moral equivalency.
They're related, and consequences of each other, definitely not polar opposites.
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Boy, I'm late.
Good luck to Chaim.
I too will do what I can.
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From an objective point of view:
Irgun bombed King David Hotel in 1946 - 41 dead, 52 missing and 53 injured
JDL bombed Soviet diplomatic targets in the 1980's - O casualties
Result: Begin became prime minister of Israel & Chaim gets banned from Israel. Whats wrong with this picture ?
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The USA and Israel would greatly benefit by having Chaim the PM of Israel. The ADL should have the brains to throw their weight behind Chaim!
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Im in to what ever has to be done.
Pluse think of the media attention the group will get from a trial like this!
WOW!
Lets Act
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I already know or at least I think I know why they have barred this man. Under current Government they see anyone that is or has been associated with Rabbi Meir Kahane as a threat. This is an uphill battle not easy but winable.
I honestly think Chaim would be more useful in Israel building up support for another run by Rabbi's former party for the Knesset. This in turn would lead to more support and attention to the JTF both State Side and in Israel.
If you get Home. I just may make Aliyah myself. You will need back up lol lol 8;)
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Guys, PLEASE!
I will support Haim ofcourse, BUT! We lost one great leader rest his soul, we cant afford to loose another.
He is better protected here. In Israel you have HAMAS, JIHAD, EL AKTZA, HEZBOLA, AND THE NEW ARMY OF ISLAM and they will target him. BAD IDEA!
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Guys, PLEASE!
I will support Haim ofcourse, BUT! We lost one great leader rest his soul, we cant afford to loose another.
He is better protected here. In Israel you have HAMAS, JIHAD, EL AKTZA, HEZBOLA, AND THE NEW ARMY OF ISLAM and they will target him. BAD IDEA!
And in the US you have Western culture. Trust me, it's much more dangerous than any Arab running around with a gun, screaming "ALALALALALALALALALAHHHH!".
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Guys, PLEASE!
I will support Haim ofcourse, BUT! We lost one great leader rest his soul, we cant afford to loose another.
He is better protected here. In Israel you have HAMAS, JIHAD, EL AKTZA, HEZBOLA, AND THE NEW ARMY OF ISLAM and they will target him. BAD IDEA!
And in the US you have Western culture. Trust me, it's much more dangerous than any Arab running around with a gun, screaming "ALALALALALALALALALAHHHH!".
Please pay attantion to this reply to my own email:
Shalom Reuven,
Chaim will need to contact the Jewish Agency in order to open an aliyah file. They are the legal representatives of the Israeli government and are the only ones who may authorize an individual to make aliyah.
Kind Regards,
Erica Edvi
Associate Director of Absorption
Nefesh B'Nefesh
02-659-5619
054-553-7910
[email protected]
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From: ראובן
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 4:24 AM
To: Erica Edvi
Subject: Aliyah of Mr. Chaim Ben Pessach from NYC, USA
Hello Dear Friends,
The reason I'm writing these sentences, is that Mr. Chaim Ben Pessach from NYC in USA, isn't allowed to make aliyah!
This is because of an historical purpose of being the friend and collega of Rabby Meir Kahana, his soul rest in peace, and no one in the Knesset or Government want to change this forbidant rule against this beloved human being who is also a releagious man and of course a whole Jewish!!!
I want to know if you could make him very happy by enforcing the Knesset to change it's attitude linking this man's innosence and wanting so much to be a part of the jewish free community in the Zionist Israel Country!!!
I hope this mail touches your hearts and souls to make the change, even if it must take some time to make the change in the Israeli Knesset, maybe by making a special rule for this dear person whom I have discussed and talked for some monthes, at this year of 60 years of independence, for the Israeli country, but still you see, that this man because of his ideas, isn't permited to make aliyah to Israel.
I have a special wish that he would come to Israel, that's all that I want, not so much, don't you think?!
So bless America and bless Israel and their both friendship for making this man a favour and also a Mitzva by helping him making Aliyah to Israel!!!
With great honour and degnity, sincerely,
Reuven, Israel.
This is the reply and the original email themselves.
Try writing to Erica Edvi via email to the address: [email protected]
Thank you all!!!
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Very good, thanks for the effort made to obtain this information. O0
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Excellent news, G-d willing, they'll let him in O0 O0 O0 O0