JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: German Christ on August 21, 2007, 09:29:29 AM
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Hello,
as a catholic I don't really know Kahanism. Could you please tell me what it is?
A free encyclopedia says, Kahanists are people who do exactly what's written in the Thora.
There is a special kahanist party right? I've heard they do terrorist attacs on
palestinians in Israel. I hope this is not true. One kahanist movement is
called to be a terrorist organization and is forbidden in Europe and America.
Please tell me more about it.
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Kahanist Jews are Orthodox Jews who follow the teachings of R' Meir Kahane Zs'l. What differentiates us from the rest of the Jewish establishment is that we practice genuine Judaism, we aren't the wimpy Jews you see in Holywood that bend over backwards to please the Shvartzas, Muslims and the Homos. Also we don't ignore the violent parts of the Bible that tells us to kill our enemies (those try want to kill us), to defend ourselves and to conquer the holy land. His party Kach was banned from Israel, since they are afraid of people being exposed to the truth and he was on his way to become the next prime minister as well. His Kach party ran on the platform to throw the muslim nazis out of Israel. The international idiots call defending yourself against muslims as supporting terrorist activities and throwing the Arabs out of Israel they call racism.
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Firstly, if you are a Catholic, Christian and even one whom has read the Islamic texts...or any credible historical texts you will see emphatically that there is no such thing as a P alestinian people. No such animal. They are Arabians of the same faith, language, culture, race etc. from Morocco to Iraq. A very good example to show yourself the massive Socialist propaganda machine attacking Jews/Israel, Christians/Christianity and G-d in general is to ask yourself if Jesus was a Jew living in Judea or was he a "P alestinian" from the "W est Bank"?
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Can gentiles also be classified as Kahanists?
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Kahainists are maybe the only sane Jews today becouse they don't want to be fooled by A-rab hudna and US trechery... and they want the Jews to be jews not fake gentiles .
Palestinian Muslims are just A-rabs not Palestinians, and Palestinian christians are a-rabised descendents of converted jews, Armenians; Greeks, Roman citisens and crusaders etc...look on what church they belong... There were never such thing as Palestine state and with G-d help never will... Until 1967 they called themselfs Jordanians or Syrians never Palis.
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A Jew doesnt need to be Torah observant to be a Kahanist, most of Rabbi Kahane zt'ls supporters were non observant jews.
Can gentiles also be classified as Kahanists?
Yes, there is in fact a video tape I will soon be converting to DVD of Rabbi Kahane zt'l at a Ben Noach conferance in the 1980's, if a non-Jew is a Ben Noach they could be a Kahanist.
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A Jew doesnt need to be Torah observant to be a Kahanist, most of Rabbi Kahane zt'ls supporters were non observant jews.
Can gentiles also be classified as Kahanists?
Yes, there is in fact a video tape I will soon be converting to DVD of Rabbi Kahane zt'l at a Ben Noach conferance in the 1980's, if a non-Jew is a Ben Noach they could be a Kahanist.
As a ben Noach Chasid, I'd love to see that video.
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I will do it when I return to Israel
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Kahanist Jews are Orthodox Jews who follow the teachings of R' Meir Kahane Zs'l. What differentiates us from the rest of the Jewish establishment is that we practice genuine Judaism, we aren't the wimpy Jews you see in Holywood that bend over backwards to please the Shvartzas, Muslims and the Homos. Also we don't ignore the violent parts of the Bible that tells us to kill our enemies (those try want to kill us), to defend ourselves and to conquer the holy land. His party Kach was banned from Israel, since they are afraid of people being exposed to the truth and he was on his way to become the next prime minister as well. His Kach party ran on the platform to throw the muslim nazis out of Israel. The international idiots call defending yourself against muslims as supporting terrorist activities and throwing the Arabs out of Israel they call racism.
Where in bible does it say you should kill your enemies?
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Pick up a Bible and look, it's everywhere. Deuteronomy 20:1 is an example.
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I think is should be clearified. It is not really or only "killing ones enemies" but eliminating evilness or those that attack or harm you for no reason or for pure evil reason like rape or murder. Genesis 34 is an example with the rape of Dinah was responded with her brothers wiping out Shechem. The wiping out of Sodom. Moses smoting the Egyptian is another. There are so many examples of Kiddush HaShem, the sanctification of HaShem's name, via acting in deed against an enemy, evilness or one bringing harm to your midst. The logic of an eye for an eye is one of the most moral and logical teachings in the Bible as too the teaching that if one comes to murder you, you are obligated to kill him first, thus explaining the difference, morally, logically and factually the difference between Killing and Murder.
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Take Numbers 33:51-56 as an example. HaTorah Says to smash the iddols and to kill them all. Who are we to argue with G-d?
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Take Numbers 33:51-56 as an example. HaTorah Says to smash the iddols and to kill them all. Who are we to argue with G-d?
Amen, That's the true Torah spirit.
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Take Numbers 33:51-56 as an example. HaTorah Says to smash the iddols and to kill them all. Who are we to argue with G-d?
Amen, That's the true Torah spirit.
muslims also think that way.
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Take Numbers 33:51-56 as an example. HaTorah Says to smash the iddols and to kill them all. Who are we to argue with G-d?
Amen, That's the true Torah spirit.
muslims also think that way.
No, Muslims want to convert or kill anyone, regardless of whether they're evil or not. The fact that they're not Muslim makes them automatically evil. There is no such concept in Judaism. HUGE difference.
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I agree with you. Judaism demands a Jewish Israel while Islam demands and Islamic World and their "holy" books display how it is to be done.
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Take Numbers 33:51-56 as an example. HaTorah Says to smash the iddols and to kill them all. Who are we to argue with G-d?
Amen, That's the true Torah spirit.
muslims also think that way.
The muslims blindly kill anyone, disregarding if they are a man, woman, or child, if the do not submit to the will of "allah". Judaism Places life above all else, and that includes delaing with those that we feel may harm us. Pre-emptive self defense is required acording to Torah.
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Take Numbers 33:51-56 as an example. HaTorah Says to smash the iddols and to kill them all. Who are we to argue with G-d?
Amen, That's the true Torah spirit.
muslims also think that way.
The muslims blindly kill anyone, disregarding if they are a man, woman, or child, if the do not submit to the will of "allah". Judaism Places life above all else, and that includes delaing with those that we feel may harm us. Pre-emptive self defense is required acording to Torah.
Why Kill those who worship idols unless their religion makes them hostile to everyone not following their religion, like islam? If that is the case, I would have no problem with pre-emptive action against them. If they are not hostile, how can they harm you?
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The L-rd our G-d has commanded us to kill those who worship idols. If you think you can fight G-d, go ahead and try. All Muslims are Idol worshipers, as Allah is the moon g-d of Pagan Arabia.
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The L-rd our G-d has commanded us to kill those who worship idols. If you think you can fight G-d, go ahead and try. All Muslims are Idol worshipers, as Allah is the moon g-d of Pagan Arabia.
Would you kill Hindus too? Their religion does not command them to do the things muslims do.
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The L-rd our G-d has commanded us to kill those who worship idols. If you think you can fight G-d, go ahead and try. All Muslims are Idol worshipers, as Allah is the moon g-d of Pagan Arabia.
1. That commandment only applies to idol worshipers living in Israel.
2. Islam believes in one G-d, the same one as us. It does not believe in idolatry. They are evil murderers but not idolatrers.
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The L-rd our G-d has commanded us to kill those who worship idols. If you think you can fight G-d, go ahead and try. All Muslims are Idol worshipers, as Allah is the moon g-d of Pagan Arabia.
1. That commandment only applies to idol worshipers living in Israel.
2. Islam believes in one G-d, the same one as us. It does not believe in idolatry. They are evil murderers but not idolatrers.
islam believes in one god, but it is not HaShem. They pray towards a black box housing a black stone and call the name of mohammed (ysv'z) in their prayers. That is idolatry.
Were the idol worshippers of Israel an evil lot like the muzzies are?
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It is not I who says to kill those who worship Idols. It is the L-rd.
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It is not I who says to kill those who worship Idols. It is the L-rd.
Speak Torah and give me a source. A Jewish court is only allowed to kill Jewish worshipers of Idols and idol worshipers living in Israel according to the Torah. Also a idolatrous nation that makes Israel sin by pushing their idols onto us. There is not verse that says you are to kill peaceful idol worshippers outside of Israel. That is for G-d to take care of, not us.
Also, Islam believes in the same G-d we do and they do not worship a rock. The Rambam says this. It is propaganda to say they worship a rock which is not true, if you ask them why the bow down to the rock they won't tell you they are worshipping it but that they are bowing down to G-d and the rock is symbolic or something like this.
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jdl4ever,
The muslims tell us they worship the G-d of the Jews and Christians, but read the Bible and the koran and you will see a satanic persona attributed to the allah of islam. Their G-d cannot possibly be HaShem who we worship, they would not be satanic savages if it were and mohammed would have actually have been a real prophet. What is a rambam?
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This is a very good position that could be argued both ways. The Rambam (Moses ben Maimon aka Maimonides), one of the greatest Jewish Sages, says that it is the same but they have bastardized the Torah which is makes their entire pseudo-religion an insult to HaShem directly. Chaim, I believe, professes to this opinion.
However, directly do to their misrepresentation of over 20 Biblical personalities and too that of creation one can say that "Allah" is not the same G-d of the Bible. For example in The Torah HaShem completed his great building task in 6 days and rested on the seventh. This is for why Jews rest on Shabbat, the Holiest day in Judaism. The Koran, as a matter of fact, says Allah, their god, did NOT rest on the seventh day as there was no need to rest and I believe more, or continual, work to be done. This last point might be wrong as it has been a very long time since I've read the Koran but given that the former is true the latter would suggest that Allah is not Hashem. Then again, who am I to argue with the Great Rambam who fluent in numerous languages including Arabic? ;)
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It is not I who says to kill those who worship Idols. It is the L-rd.
Speak Torah and give me a source. A Jewish court is only allowed to kill Jewish worshipers of Idols and idol worshipers living in Israel according to the Torah. Also a idolatrous nation that makes Israel sin by pushing their idols onto us. There is not verse that says you are to kill peaceful idol worshippers outside of Israel. That is for G-d to take care of, not us.
Also, Islam believes in the same G-d we do and they do not worship a rock. The Rambam says this. It is propaganda to say they worship a rock which is not true, if you ask them why the bow down to the rock they won't tell you they are worshipping it but that they are bowing down to G-d and the rock is symbolic or something like this.
They don't worship the G_d of Israel.
The name Allah descends from al ilah. And changes in preislamic time to the today known name allah. Mohammeds father wears the name Allah in his Name. Abadallah.
So we can be shure that the name Allah exists in preislamic time.
Allah the moongod, marries the sun and gets three daughters. Manat Uzza Lat and a lot of others. All doughters of Allah are in the believe of the arabs the stars.
There are the Satanic Verses, that prove us, that the Koran was changed. Originally Allah has in the Islam this three doughters.
Mohammed is a cheater, who takes the tin gods of the arabic pantheon unclothes them of many attributes of paganism and clothes them with stories he has picked up from jews and christians, but he didn't understand what he heard.
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It is not I who says to kill those who worship Idols. It is the L-rd.
Speak Torah and give me a source. A Jewish court is only allowed to kill Jewish worshipers of Idols and idol worshipers living in Israel according to the Torah. Also a idolatrous nation that makes Israel sin by pushing their idols onto us. There is not verse that says you are to kill peaceful idol worshippers outside of Israel. That is for G-d to take care of, not us.
Also, Islam believes in the same G-d we do and they do not worship a rock. The Rambam says this. It is propaganda to say they worship a rock which is not true, if you ask them why the bow down to the rock they won't tell you they are worshipping it but that they are bowing down to G-d and the rock is symbolic or something like this.
Numbers 33:51-56, The ten Comandments are two examples..
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The Rambam was one of the greatest Torah Scholars who ever lived. He lived in the 1100's and was the Chief Doctor of an Arabic King. Most of his opinions are widely accepted and he spoke fluent Arabic since he lived with the Arabs.
You guys are missing the point. As long as someone believes in one G-d, he worships the same G-d as us and is not an idol worshipper. It does not matter that the name of Allah is derived from the word for an idol, or that they think the entire Bible is a lie, and they think that G-d tells them to kill all the infidels. These are sins in their own right but they still worship the same G-d since G-d is one and even if someone tells you that his G-d tells them to murder everyone on the planet, he stills believes in G-d, but is wrong about his nature. Worshipping idols means someone worships a rock, the sun, a statue or a man or something of this nature and says that the stone or whatever it is is G-d or that there are several gods. But if someone says that they believe in an all powerful being and calls this G-d any name he decides to call it, he believes in G-d and does not worship idols. By the way, the Arabs believe in the G-d of Abraham by the way and say outright that they believe in the same G-d as us and if they say this it must be true since they love to say that there religion is nothing like ours since they hate us so much; the fact that on this one instance they don't say this means something.
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so the Quran is revelation from Hashem or illah the moon god? jdl4ever you claim that allah is Hashem; you have to explain this; beside Ramban lived in muslim ruled country IRC; and if he told the "peacefull muslims" that they're idolaters they woud kill every jews living in their land; and endengering the lives of fellow jews is sin according to Torah.
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JDL, I believe you are mislead. Just because one believes in "one" god alone does not dictate that that "one" god is HaShem. For example Lucifarians, and even these "light" worshippers, in the form of knowledge, believe they worship one god but clearly these are not HaShem. There is even an arguement that Catholics do not worship HaShem due to their Trinity concept as it is foreign to HaShem's Laws, thus denotes paganism or multi-theism.
You are very correct when you say that Muslims openly say that they worship the G-d of Avraham but they have molested the teachings thus that they also worship a god that did NOT rest on the seventh day. Therefore one can argue that their version of god and their god might well be different as their teachings, beleived to be given from Allah, al-ilah, to be truthful. This be the case, one could deffinately argue the point that Allah is not HaShem but a bastardized version of Him or even an over exaggerated pagan moon god from the early desert dwellers of Arabia, with their Kabah, prior to Mohammed.
Sure it can be argued both ways, as I stated above. I wish to clearify that the belief in one god can mean many different things or be directed to one, different god than HaShem..
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so the Quran is revelation from Hashem or illah the moon G-d? jdl4ever you claim that allah is Hashem; you have to explain this; beside Ramban lived in muslim ruled country IRC; and if he told the "peacefull muslims" that they're idolaters they woud kill every jews living in their land; and endengering the lives of fellow jews is sin according to Torah.
Arabs believe in a single immaterial G-d. If you believe in an immaterial being controlling the world, you believe in Hashem since there is only one G-d. It makes no difference if that is the only thing you believe in correctly and make up nonsense about everything else, about G-d's ways, his word etc. Arabs do not worship the moon, so stop this nonsense. The Rambam was a REAL Rabbi by the way and he never adulterated the truth in his writings so stop suggesting horrible things about him. The Rambam actually acted on his decision and advocated for Jews who the Arabs forced to convert by holding a sword to their throat and said that if an Arab does this to you privately you are permitted to submit to save your life since it is not idol worship. He hated the Muslims more than you do by the way since he lived in the middle of the Crusades. Also I am not aware of any current Rabbi who argues with the Rambam on this issue. I see something dangerous going on here, that hate blinds you to twisting the Torah. We are required to hate our enemies, but you have to not let the evil inclination use this to his advantage and pervert your understanding of the Torah. The Arabs believe in Hashem, but are our enemies and therefore are evil. Also they do not observe the other 6 laws of Noah so they are evil. But they do observe the one about believing in G-d.
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so the Quran is revelation from Hashem or illah the moon G-d? jdl4ever you claim that allah is Hashem; you have to explain this; beside Ramban lived in muslim ruled country IRC; and if he told the "peacefull muslims" that they're idolaters they woud kill every jews living in their land; and endengering the lives of fellow jews is sin according to Torah.
Arabs believe in a immaterial G-d. If you believe in an immaterial being, you believe in Hashem since there is only one G-d. It makes no difference if that is the only thing you believe in correctly and make up nonsense about everything else, about G-d's ways, his word etc. Arabs do not worship the moon, so stop this nonsense. The Rambam was a REAL Rabbi by the way and he never adulterated the truth in his writings so stop suggesting horrible things about him. He hated the Muslims more than you do by the way since he lived in the middle of the Crusades. Also I am not aware of any current Rabbi who argues with the Rambam on this issue.
The cheif god of Hinduism is called 'brama', or something like that. The Hindus believe that he is 'immaterial'. Is that idol god HaShem? arabs do not worship the moon, but they worship the cheif idol, a moon god of pre islamic times. If ever you are passing by large mosques, look at the very top of the dome and you will see a cresent moon.
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It doesn't matter that you see a moon in their mosque, that's no different than having an embroidary of lions on most Torah Arks in Synagagues. If you ask the Muslims to explain what they worship, they'll tell you they worship one immaterial G-d, not the moon.
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You can call it whatever you want; Islam is nothing more than an Idolteor faith that wants nothing but to kill us. Why are you so quick to defend them?
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*Sigh* Must everyone always argue? Alright children lets get this all strait :-p
1. Kahanism is for the most part is simply believing in what Rav Kahane zt''l said, which is simply believing in and following the words of the Torah. Yes Bnei Noach can be Kahanists, but I doubt they are nearly as die-hard about it as Jews are. But as I said its simply believing in the words of the Torah and being willing and ready to follow though with it. As Rav Kahane zt''l used to say "This is not Kahanism! THIS IS JUDAISM!"
2. Yes according to Judaism you must kill someone first before they kill you - though you must be 100% sure. But YOU MUST KILL YOUR ENEMY. And no that does not mean "oh I hate so and so so - I must kill him; it means if you see an Arab terrorist, it is your obligation to kill him before he kills others. This is both in the Tanach and the Gamara.
3. If you take a pig and call it a cow and say it is kosher does it make it so? Of course not! Just as when you take a pagan G-d and say it is HASHEM? NO IT IS NOT. As well if you are to take two pagan gods such as lets say.... Aphrodite and Hera and you worship one and someone else the other, though you are worshiping the deities exclusively and only believe that the one you worship is all powerful and the only G-d and creator making you monotheistic does this mean they are the same one since you are worshiping just one deity? Or does that mean they are not pagans just because you and another are worshiping them monotheistically? Of it doesn't. So just because Allah is a monotheistic deity does not make him HASHEM no matter how you want to put it, he is a pagan G-d and that is that.
4. I will agree that Islam is not idol worship when it comes to worshiping a statue, though it is a G-d. Though according to many the Kaaba was used for such worship. According to some it was dedicated to Hubal, a Nabatean deity of the moon, and contained 360 idols which probably represented the days of the year. According to others, the Kaaba was a shrine for the daughters of G-d Hubal; al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat, and then again according to another about four hundred years before the birth of Muhammad, a man named Amr bin Lahyo bin Harath bin Amr ul-Qais bin Thalaba bin Azd bin Khalan bin Babalyun bin Saba, who was descended from Qahtan and king of Hijaz, had placed a Hubal idol onto the roof of the Kaaba, and this idol was one of the chief deities of the ruling Quraysh tribe.
I can go on and on, but point being if it was erected to be for idols, or if it even still has one in it then it would be idol worship since they are praying towards the Kaaba even if they are not praying to it itself but rather praying towards it the way we do to or towards the Kotel.
5. The only reason they say they are praying to HASHEM is because they are the children of Ishmael who was one of the sons of Avraham so it was easy for Mohammed to just say it was HASHEM the G-d of their grandfather. Mohammed also had been trying to entrap the Jews, so chances are that is where he even got the idea at first to say it was HASHEM. He even used to have everyone pray towards the Kotel like we do, to get Jews to convert - which thank heavens didn't work even though it did lead to him loathing the Jews as well as everyone else who did not convert. But since many pagans were converting to Judaism because polytheism/paganism seemed illogical, leaving them feeling like something was missing and they wanted something more possible like monotheism in which case it became easier to convert pagans to Islam since you already have what they like and were used to such as murder, rape, theft - and frankly its is much easier then Judaism to follow, other then praying two times a day more then our 3. And since it is such a strong religion - though it did not start out AS strong as it is today - it made them feel they might actually have found something worth worshiping even if it still was paganism which they probably didn't even realize it was. And further more Mohammed was trying to get Pagans to convert also, so what is a better way to do that then to take one of their deities say it is the only G-d, say this is a monotheistic religion and that's that. He even kept the simple of the deity, or did you never wonder where the idea of the crescent came from. So again, Islam may not be idol worship but IT IS paganism since it is not HASHEM they are praying to.
6. The death penalty for believing in polytheism is as has been already said; only for people with in Israel and NOT all over the rest of the world. The however only thing that does happen to all pagans all over is they brake one of the 7 laws bnai noach.
P.S. To all those who take things extremely seriously and were offended by my saying "*Sigh* Must everyone always argue? Alright children lets get this all strait :-p" and felt I was speaking condescendingly to them, I am sorry I was only joking and didn't mean to offend you.
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What a blessing of a post Israeli Mouse. I agree with your words. Keep up the good posts. Shana tova ;)
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What a blessing of a post Israeli Mouse. I agree with your words. Keep up the good posts. Shana tova ;)
More like a post calming the stormy ocean.
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You can call it whatever you want; Islam is nothing more than an Idolteor faith that wants nothing but to kill us. Why are you so quick to defend them?
Because we observe the Torah and it is not acceptable to pervert the Torah just because a group of people is our enemy.
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Great post as always, Elissa. And I'll be happy to be your "spell check" any time. :laugh:
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You can call it whatever you want; Islam is nothing more than an Idolteor faith that wants nothing but to kill us. Why are you so quick to defend them?
Because we observe the Torah and it is not acceptable to pervert the Torah just because a group of people is our enemy.
It is not I who is perverting the Torah. You are ignoring the violent parts. We are required to follow all, not just some, of the torah.
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Who's ignoring the violent parts? We're required to kill our enemies but we can't pervert the Torah to do so by saying like some idiots posted here that we should rape them, or saying that they worship an idol. You are making up parts of the Torah by arguing with the Rambam.
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Israeli Mouse, your post is good but some of it I disagree with. Theoretically speaking if someone would come out with a new religion saying that they worship a single immaterial G-d that controls the world and calls him Zeus derived from Greek paganism they would still be worshiping Hashem since there is only one G-d. This is assuming they reject the Greek concept that Zeus has the form of a man and rejects that there are several deities. This is simple logic:
1. If there is only one immaterial G-d that controls the world, Hashem
2. Then anyone who believes in one immaterial G-d must be Hashem regardless of who they think it is or how they derived the concept.
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Israeli Mouse, your post is good but some of it I disagree with. Theoretically speaking if someone would come out with a new religion saying that they worship a single immaterial G-d that controls the world and calls him Zeus derived from Greek paganism they would still be worshiping Hashem since there is only one G-d. This is assuming they reject the Greek concept that Zeus has the form of a man and rejects that there are several deities. This is simple logic:
1. If there is only one immaterial G-d that controls the world, Hashem
2. Then anyone who believes in one immaterial G-d must be Hashem regardless of who they think it is or how they derived the concept.
But what if they took things from the Greek Zeus and Greek paganism? What if they... Oh idk... Took his lighting bolt as the symbol to their religion. And oh lets just say they speak of the Greek pagan religion in their "holy" book. Thats not exactly giving up the religion is it? No of course its not, its just mixing a pagan deity with HASHEM.
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Great post as always, Elissa. And I'll be happy to be your "spell check" any time. :laugh:
lol and you haven't even seen my best yet or something my hearts really in :-p And again thanks lodes Gin'gi! :)
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It wouldn't make any difference even if derived their religion from Greek Paganism and use the name Zeus to appeal to these pagans. The fact that they worship one immaterial G-d makes them worship Hashem even if they call it Zeus and derived their religion from Pagan concepts. They changed it enough to worship one G-d which can only be Hashem.
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It wouldn't make any difference even if derived their religion from Greek Paganism and use the name Zeus to appeal to these pagans. The fact that they worship one immaterial G-d makes them worship Hashem even if they call it Zeus and derived their religion from Pagan concepts. They changed it enough to worship one G-d which can only be Hashem.
Alright lets try this again; Pagan deity, Pagan customs, Taking the idea of an infinite immortal G-d and they mix them. STILL PAGANISM. Just like if you take a donkey and a stallion and you mating them you don't have a stallion, you have a mule which is so much less then a stallion to the point that it can not even give off offspring.
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Still not paganism if they believe in one immaterial G-d.
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No you are thinking of polytheism which means believing in more then one G-d, Paganism is believing in any G-d but HASHEM.
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I don't define paganism as you do. If someone believes in one immaterial G-d and calls that G-d something other than Hashem, he's still worshiping Hashem.
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You might want to look up the word then. There is no two ways to define it. Paganism = any deity who is not HASHEM. And thats that, there is no two ways about it.
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There is no question that Islam sprouted from Pagan roots and intermixed its beliefs with Judaism via its bastardized version of the Torah. This also can be said for Christianity as well. One could further argue that the concept of the "Trinity" also constitues both Paganism and Polytheism.
You are right, there is only one HaShem and there can be made a very good arguement that the Muslims do worship Him but with their own texts by saying that Allah did NOT rest on the seventh day, while HaShem states clearly He did, one could conclude that this Allah is not HaShem but a Pagan Diety. Wikipedia has a good explanation of Paganism but lists Islam as being non Pagan and monotheistic. This would beg the question as to what role does Ar Rahman play in Islam?
IM you make very good posts, keep up the good work. You all make very good points. I was reading up on Pantheism and Pandeism: Very interesting concepts which seem to apply to this New Age garbage. Apparently, Albert Einstein was a Pantheist... Very interesting when it seems that these and other great Scientific minds; Plato, Socrates and Isaiac Newton attained their greatness from studying Kabala principles... sorry to digress...
IM are you in Israel now? Did you hear about the recent agreement between Olmert and Abas? What do you think will happen? Sorry, a bit off topic...
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- Well you can take it even a step further and stay that Catholicism is complete idol worship since they are praying to saints for many things, or out of hope to protect them ext. Though I am debating that topic in my mind, since they say they are only asking them for intervention since they are close to G-d or deity depending on how you see it. But then again, and this just accrued to me a minute ago; We got severely punished for the egel ha'zahav and it was only created to be an intervener between HASEHM and am yesrel. It was to replace Moshe and not HASHEM. But then again we do pray at grave to ask ones we've lost to intervene on our behalf, but on the other hand those are graves and not statues like the Catholics pray to the saints so I believe that it would be considered idol worship though I am not 100% sure yet.
- The only reason they say that Islam is not paganism is because they claim believe in HASHEM the G-d of Avraham. And since I have already refuted that -yes I have, those don't agree with me thats your problem - you can see it should not be there. But also can i you imagine anyone going against Islam? (Not that I wouldn't be the first to) Hippie: *lights joint*or *chains self to something* "OMGGGGG NO! YOU CAN'T! thats totally against their religious rights!" Politician: "We can not change ones beliefs and say they are something that they do not believe they are just because we want to. These are someones beliefs and their G-d given right to believe in them." and of course all the others will be scared of another attack so they really wont want it, just like China didn't make the pig stamp it was going to because it was year of the pig because it would insult their terrorist - oops I mean Muslims. And if they even think of going though with it - which they wont since they are stupid, ignorant, cowards - all the Muslims would have a huge fit about it like they did with everything else. Not that i care, but you see why even if they realized this why they wouldn't change it?
- Well there have been many great scientific and philosophic minds that were complete and compleat (no Gin'gi look up the word compleat, I spelled it right this time lol) morons in somethings, here it seems to be religious logic. Though I do love what Einstein says about religion as well as many other things.
- IM? lol that took me a second to relies you meant me :-p. No i do not still live in Israel, I moved here a little over 7 years ago and I am trying very hard to make my way back, though HASHEM doesn't seem to agree with the idea. In one sentence; I really have no idea. But in more then one sentence; I think out government is completely stupid, so I expect the worst and pray for the best. That document and agreement did not surprise me, it just [censored] me off. The only thing Omert ever did good was going Lebanon and even that he ended up f***ing up - I use stars because they will delete it if I don't - just like he has f***ed up everything else he touched. He is a compleat and utter moron who I hope chokes on a ham bone and I have plenty of things to wish upon the rest of his idiotic family. He and his ideas or so absolutely repulsive I am almost hoping Feiglin becomes PM, at least that way if hes the moron I expect him to be I can call him, email him and go over to his house and tell him off and what he should be doing right, and the same goes for his right hand man. Honestly I am beginning to lose hope in Israels future because unless HASHEM intervenes - as you can see from the sentence right before this - I will not have a home to go back to, and Omert is making that even more likely since it is my home that he wants to give away. I lived in the shomron. All I can say is I hope it doesn't happen and I hope Israel wakes up soon because if the left has not woken up yet, idk if they ever will, and if they don't with out HASHEMs help we will not have an Israel much longer.
Lol sorry I like to do things lots of times in points so this way I can answer everything and say all I have to say with out losing track of my thoughts.
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Great post as always, Elissa. And I'll be happy to be your "spell check" any time. :laugh:
lol and you haven't even seen my best yet or something my hearts really in :-p And again thanks lodes Gin'gi! :)
Loads, not lodes! ;)
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I don't define paganism as you do. If someone believes in one immaterial G-d and calls that G-d something other than Hashem, he's still worshiping Hashem.
If i worship a squiriel, and call it mr. squiriley, and think and belive he is the one true g-d,is Hashem this squiriel???? NO. Allah is as much a squiriel as the squiriel is, but Allah is not Hashem.
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I don't define paganism as you do. If someone believes in one immaterial G-d and calls that G-d something other than Hashem, he's still worshiping Hashem.
If i worship a squiriel, and call it mr. squiriley, and think and belive he is the one true g-d,is Hashem this squiriel???? NO. Allah is as much a squiriel as the squiriel is, but Allah is not Hashem.
well the only problem with that example is that you are taking a physical being when we are debating between the fact that they gave Allah nonphysical characteristics. That would be better used when debating Christianity, but even then it can be refuted.
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Where did Christianity go wrong?
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Where did Christianity go wrong?
not that i have anything against the belief or anything like that, people can believe in what ever they want as long as it doesn't affect me or try to snatch up Jews to believe in their beliefs. but you can use that example when referring to the way Christians believe in the trinity and that G-d can have a son who also is G-d which would make G-d a mortal and someone who could be killed. If the whole idea of G-d is that he is infinite and not finite then how can he be limited or die?
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Where did Christianity go wrong?
not that i have anything against the belief or anything like that, people can believe in what ever they want as long as it doesn't affect me or try to snatch up Jews to believe in their beliefs. but you can use that example when referring to the way Christians believe in the trilogy and that G-d can have a son who also is G-d which would make G-d a mortal and someone who could be killed. If the whole idea of G-d is that he is infinite and not finite then how can he be limited or die?
I believe Xtians believe in a trinity. The Lord of the Rings is a trilogy. :laugh:
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Where did Christianity go wrong?
not that i have anything against the belief or anything like that, people can believe in what ever they want as long as it doesn't affect me or try to snatch up Jews to believe in their beliefs. but you can use that example when referring to the way Christians believe in the trilogy and that G-d can have a son who also is G-d which would make G-d a mortal and someone who could be killed. If the whole idea of G-d is that he is infinite and not finite then how can he be limited or die?
I believe Xtians believe in a trinity. The Lord of the Rings is a trilogy. :laugh:
fixed lol
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Where did Christianity go wrong?
not that i have anything against the belief or anything like that, people can believe in what ever they want as long as it doesn't affect me or try to snatch up Jews to believe in their beliefs. but you can use that example when referring to the way Christians believe in the trinity and that G-d can have a son who also is G-d which would make G-d a mortal and someone who could be killed. If the whole idea of G-d is that he is infinite and not finite then how can he be limited or die?
Yeah, that is pretty screwed up. In Christianity, the belief is that Jesus is the son of HaShem but is also worshipped as HaShem.
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A very good book on the History of Christianity is one by Dr. Paul Johnson "A History of Christianity". As a matter of fact, I'm reading it now.... ;)