JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: admin on August 24, 2007, 08:17:56 PM
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Israel’s Only Crematorium Is Itself Burnt
(IsraelNN.com) A commercial crematorium in Israel was heavily damaged by fire Wednesday night. The outdoor oven belongs to the only cremation company in Israel, Alei Shalechet, located in the town of Hibat Zion in the center of the country. Firefighters say they suspect that unknown perpetrators set fire to the building.
Cremation of human bodies is forbidden under Jewish law. Shas Minister Yitzhak Cohen proposed Thursday to outlaw the Alei Shalechet company.
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Good!
Such a thing has NO PLACE in EY.
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Cemeteries take a lot of land. Israel does not have enough land. All the burial system is going to collapse very soon.
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That is why Israel needs to take it's land back!
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That is why Israel needs to take it's land back!
Atleast not to give back any more land. That is not the only reason.
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What a holy thing that has happened. Baruch HaShem, this evil is purged from Israel, if only for a temporary time. I can surmise that the Anti-G-d people in Israel will fight to have it rebuilt. G-d willing, it will be gone for good, though.
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Can I ask where in the Tanakh cremation is forbidden?
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http://www.askmoses.com/article.html?h=284&o=412779
What is the Torah’s opinion on cremation?
by Rabbi Moshe Miller
The Torah permits burial only. The source for this is in the verse where G-d tells Adam: “For you are dust and to the dust you will return” (Genesis 3:19). This idea is reiterated in Ecclesiastes 12:7: “The dust shall return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return to G-d who gave it.”
Even a body that is no longer alive is accorded the greatest consideration and respectThe Jewish way of dealing with death is part of a larger philosophy of life which views the human body as integral to one’s Divine service, so that even a body that is no longer alive is accorded the greatest consideration and respect.
Deuteronomy 21:22-3 even prohibits the desecration of the body of a person who incurred the death penalty: “You shall bury him on that day, for a hanging person is an insult to G-d.” The Talmud and commentaries explain: It is a degradation of the King, for man is made in His image.
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Why would someone want to destroy their body after they die?
Besides the above logical sane thought, it is forbidden because we are supposed to be returned to The Earth because that is where we came from and because the body has to be intact for The Resurrection of The Dead.
This argument makes no sense, when you bury a body it slowly decays away till all that is left is the bones.
TorahZionist: Thanks very much.
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There is a kind of bone or organ no bigger than a barley corn called the luz bone or neskvi. Its shape is almost cubic and apparently it lies at the top of the spine, inside the skull underneath the brain. It is described as having within it many intertwined spider-like blood vessels.
It is indestructible and doesn't decay in the grave. The Midrash says that the Roman Hadrian once took a luz and tried to grind it, burn it, and dissolve it in water, to no avail. When he hammered it against an anvil, the hammer and anvil broke.
The future resurrection of the dead will be from this bone... that is, a person will be resurrected from his luz bone. If you destroy this bone during cremation, it is very bad.
Some believe this may occur through technology. Some believe it will be supernatural when the Messiah comes.
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Here is the commentary on the luz bone and cloning:
http://beismoshiach.org/Moshiach/moshiach350.htm (http://beismoshiach.org/Moshiach/moshiach350.htm)
And here is a further description about cremation:
http://www.aish.com/societywork/sciencenature/Cremation.asp (http://www.aish.com/societywork/sciencenature/Cremation.asp)
Cremation is forbidden in Judaism because death is more than just a body. It's a soul.
With today's high cost of burial -- casket, tombstone, plot of land -- many are opting for cremation. What is the Jewish position?
Judaism permits only burial. The source for this comes from the Torah, where G-d tells Adam:
You will return to the ground, for it was from the ground that you were taken. (Genesis 3:19)
Judaism not only specifically forbids cremation, but insists on a very simple burial directly into the ground.Let's understand why.
BODY AND SOUL
Upon death, the soul goes through a painful separation from the body, which until now had housed the soul. This process of disengagement occurs as the body decays. When the body is buried, it decays slowly, thereby giving comfort to the soul as it disengages from the body.
Jewish law forbids embalming or burial in a mausoleum, which would delay the decaying process.
This decay is crucial, which is why Jewish law forbids embalming or burial in a mausoleum, which would in fact delay the decaying process.
Also, Jews are buried in a wooden casket, which decays more rapidly. Similarly, Jewish law dictates that burial take place as soon as possible after death. (In Israel, funerals often take place on the same day as the death.) All this is for the benefit of the soul.
One reason that Judaism prohibits cremation is that the soul would suffer great shock due to the unnaturally sudden disengagement from the body. As the Talmud says:
Burial is not for the sake of the living, but rather for the dead. (Sanhedrin 47a)
What about the millions of Jews cremated in Nazi ovens? The Almighty certainly guarded their souls from needless agony.
RESURRECTION
Jewish tradition records that with burial, a single bone in the back of the neck never decays. It is from this bone -- called the luz bone -- that the human body will be rebuilt in the future Messianic Era when all the dead will be resurrected.
With cremation, that bone can be destroyed, and the resurrection process stymied.
In fact, someone who chooses cremation is as if he does not believe in resurrection.
Resurrection is a fundamental belief of Judaism, as expressed in Maimonides' classical "13 Principles of Faith":
I believe with complete faith that there will be a resurrection of the dead, whenever the wish emanates from the Creator.
Sources:
Beit Yitzchak, Yoreh Deah II, 195 (based on Talmud - Temurah 34a).
Achiezer III, 72:4 (based on Deut. 21:23, and Maimonides - Laws of Sanhedrin 15:8).
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I understand that cremation is against Jewish law regarding the treatment of the dead, but if it happens, why can't G-d reconstruct the ashes and resurrect the person anyway?
I am not defending it, but at the same time, I don't see how it could prevent a person from being restored by the L-rd either.
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G-d can resurrect people from ashes as well. The prohibition on cremation in Judaism an ancient custom so we don't really understand the reason for it but it has been around forever so we must follow it.
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There is a kind of bone or organ no bigger than a barley corn called the luz bone or neskvi. Its shape is almost cubic and apparently it lies at the top of the spine, inside the skull underneath the brain. It is described as having within it many intertwined spider-like blood vessels.
It is indestructible and doesn't decay in the grave. The Midrash says that the Roman Hadrian once took a luz and tried to grind it, burn it, and dissolve it in water, to no avail. When he hammered it against an anvil, the hammer and anvil broke.
The future resurrection of the dead will be from this bone... that is, a person will be resurrected from his luz bone. If you destroy this bone during cremation, it is very bad.
Some believe this may occur through technology. Some believe it will be supernatural when the Messiah comes.
This account makes no sense at all to me.
"It is indestructible and doesn't decay in the grave. The Midrash says that the Roman Hadrian once took a luz and tried to grind it, burn it, and dissolve it in water, to no avail. When he hammered it against an anvil, the hammer and anvil broke."
"If you destroy this bone during cremation"
If he couldn't burn it, how could it be destroyed in cremation?
I personally do not think the ressurrection of the dead will in anyway involve our physical bodies from this planet.
It just doesn't make any sense to me, I believe that our souls will pass onto the next live, our bodies returning to dust.
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There is a kind of bone or organ no bigger than a barley corn called the luz bone or neskvi. Its shape is almost cubic and apparently it lies at the top of the spine, inside the skull underneath the brain. It is described as having within it many intertwined spider-like blood vessels.
It is indestructible and doesn't decay in the grave. The Midrash says that the Roman Hadrian once took a luz and tried to grind it, burn it, and dissolve it in water, to no avail. When he hammered it against an anvil, the hammer and anvil broke.
The future resurrection of the dead will be from this bone... that is, a person will be resurrected from his luz bone. If you destroy this bone during cremation, it is very bad.
Some believe this may occur through technology. Some believe it will be supernatural when the Messiah comes.
This account makes no sense at all to me.
"It is indestructible and doesn't decay in the grave. The Midrash says that the Roman Hadrian once took a luz and tried to grind it, burn it, and dissolve it in water, to no avail. When he hammered it against an anvil, the hammer and anvil broke."
"If you destroy this bone during cremation"
If he couldn't burn it, how could it be destroyed in cremation?
I personally do not think the ressurrection of the dead will in anyway involve our physical bodies from this planet.
It just doesn't make any sense to me, I believe that our souls will pass onto the next live, our bodies returning to dust.
Here he goes opposing and questioning Torah, Talmud and Rabbinical rulings................AGAIN!
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I'm not questionging the torah, I do however question the rabinical decisions, I see no mention of this bone in the torah.
Newman, if GOd did not intend us to think about things he would not have given us brains.
I intend to be burried not cremated, however, these ideas for why one should be make no sense at all to me.
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I'm not questionging the torah, I do however question the rabinical decisions, I see no mention of this bone in the torah.
Newman, if G-d did not intend us to think about things he would not have given us brains.
I intend to be burried not cremated, however, these ideas for why one should be make no sense at all to me.
ftf google Luz bone there is quite a bit written on it on some interesting sites.
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I'm not questionging the torah, I do however question the rabinical decisions, I see no mention of this bone in the torah.
Newman, if G-d did not intend us to think about things he would not have given us brains.
I intend to be burried not cremated, however, these ideas for why one should be make no sense at all to me.
ftf google Luz bone there is quite a bit written on it on some interesting sites.
I'll look into it.
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The Luz bone isn't from the Torah per se, it's from the Medrish commentary which at times has some unusual opinions on things. Questioning this opinion is not going against the Torah, since it is one commentary. I also don't think that this bone can't be destroyed, when you cremate someone, you destroy everything.
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Newman, I don't think he said anything wrong. I don't like your perpetuating this feud with him at all. This is a very important moment for JTF and Chaim and we need maximum unity.
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Newman, I don't think he said anything wrong. I don't like your perpetuating this feud with him at all. This is a very important moment for JTF and Chaim and we need maximum unity.
Yeah, Well I don't like him constantly challenging Jews to prove their beliefs. So tuff.
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I am against cremation. The fact that Nazis cremated jews tells us something about it.
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When morons burn dead bodies, the bones don't get burnt. In order for the bones to be destroyed, they have to be pulverized (grounded up) after the burning. The Nazis didn't pulverize the Jews that they burnt. In Judaism, burning dead bodies is a form of punishment that is reserved for Jew haters and Jew killers such as Adolf Eichmann, YM"S. Now days it should be done to The Arab Muslim Nazis.
Wrong. When they cremate them, the temperature is so high that everything turns into ashes.
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Yeah, Well I don't like him constantly challenging Jews to prove their beliefs. So tuff.
He wasn't picking a fight. He was curious about why they believe what they do about cremation.
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In Judaism, burning dead bodies is a form of punishment that is reserved for Jew haters and Jew killers such as Adolf Eichmann, YM"S. Now days it should be done to The Arab Muslim Nazis.
Why do we need to wait until the Nazis die to burn them? ;)
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Thanks C.F. I never expected you to stick up for me, thanks very much.
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Rabbi Tovia Singer knows what he's talking about. That's not a man that just says something without first investigating.
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Rabbi Tovia Singer knows what he's talking about. That's not a man that just says something without first investigating.
It was Tovia who spoke about lebanese christians descending from pheonicians and how they're vastly different from arabs. He's right, too.
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I personally do not think the ressurrection of the dead will in anyway involve our physical bodies from this planet.
It just doesn't make any sense to me, I believe that our souls will pass onto the next live, our bodies returning to dust.
It may not make sense to you but this has always been the Jewish position. Read Genesis. Rachel is buried, Jacob is buried, Joseph is buried. No cremation there.
In fact during the first century CE, the Jewish custom was to be buried twice. Once for decomposing and then the bones were gathered and put in stone coffins called ossuaries. For a short period, around a century or two, this was the custom. Pharissee, Sadduccee, Essene. It made no difference.
They actually found some interesting names on a group of these ossuaries about 5 months ago, but then again, you probably heard about that, didn't you?
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I personally do not think the ressurrection of the dead will in anyway involve our physical bodies from this planet.
It just doesn't make any sense to me, I believe that our souls will pass onto the next live, our bodies returning to dust.
It may not make sense to you but this has always been the Jewish position. Read Genesis. Rachel is buried, Jacob is buried, Joseph is buried. No cremation there.
In fact during the first century CE, the Jewish custom was to be buried twice. Once for decomposing and then the bones were gathered and put in stone coffins called ossuaries. For a short period, around a century or two, this was the custom. Pharissee, Sadduccee, Essene. It made no difference.
They actually found some interesting names on a group of these ossuaries about 5 months ago, but then again, you probably heard about that, didn't you?
No, I didn't know all of these things, I did know that the Jewish custom had always been burial, for most christians the custom is burial, I intend to be buried when I die, I just find some of the Jewish logic behind it confusing.
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The Jews always buried their dead so the Romans when they become christian Europeans
in the IV/V century; The cremation of dead was always heathen custom, picked out by nazis; and it's now popular in the neo-pagan west; that's why I"m against this; about bones epsecialy temples and spines they're not cremated that's why they used the milles for bones in Aushwitz and other KLs. Do you have links from Tovia Singer about Lebanese christian being Phoenicians not Arabs Mewman?
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The Jews always buried their dead so the Romans when they become christian Europeans
in the IV/V century; The cremation of dead was always heathen custom, picked out by nazis; and it's now popular in the neo-pagan west; that's why I"m against this; about bones epsecialy temples and spines they're not cremated that's why they used the milles for bones in Aushwitz and other KLs. Do you have links from Tovia Singer about Lebanese christian being Phoenicians not Arabs Mewman?
No. His shows aren't archived. Just look at christian lebanese women, though. Beautiful, clean, smell good and smart. Look at arab women. Ugly, stupid and stink.