JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lisa on September 26, 2015, 10:23:16 PM
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They have provoked My jealousy with a non god, provoked My anger with their vanities. Thus, I will provoke their jealousy with a non people, provoke their anger with a vile nation.
Hey everyone. I was at my Synagogue this morning where they were reading Devarim (Deuteronomy) Chapter 32, verse 21. The above verse about provoking Israel's anger with a "vile nation" really caught my eye. I'm just wondering if Moses was predicting that G-d would provoke the Jews with the current day fakestinians. That's what it sounded like to me. I was reading the commentary notes below this chapter where it said that "vile nation" refers to nations with no cultural or moral worth, who exist only to (try to) destroy Israel.
I also remember Dan Ben Noah bringing up this quote in a thread about the fakestinians.
What do you guys think?
On another note, I never heard any rabbi elaborating on the phrase "vile nation" (translated by Chabad as a "foolish nation") and linking it to fakestinians. It seems quite obvious to me.
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What Chumash were you using? Was it at a Chabad synagogue?
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No it wasn't a Chabad Synagogue.
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No it wasn't a Chabad Synagogue.
What Chumash was it? Was it ArtScroll?
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What Chumash was it? Was it ArtScroll?
I don't remember.
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We just read Haazinu.
In my opinion, based on reading the preceding lines, the Torah is referring to those Jews who go astray and follow the god of other nations. This section contains rebukes warning Jews to not abandon Torah and worship idols like those who believe their god is a man.
I reproduce Chapter 32
13 He made them ride upon the high places of the earth, that they would eat the produce of the field. He let them suck honey from a rock, and oil from the mighty part of the crag.
14 The cream of cattle and the milk of sheep, with the fat of lambs and rams of Bashan and he goats, with kidneys of wheat, and it [the congregation of Israel] would drink the blood of grapes [which was] as the finest wine.
15 And Jeshurun became fat and rebelled; you grew fat, thick and rotund; [Israel] forsook the God Who made them, and spurned the [Mighty] Rock of their salvation.
16 They provoked His zeal with alien worship; they made Him angry with abominations deeds.
17 They sacrificed to demons, which have no power, deities they did not know, new things that only recently came, which your forefathers did not fear.
18 You forgot the [Mighty] Rock Who bore you; you forgot the God Who delivered you.
19 And the Lord saw this and became angry, provoked by His sons and daughters.
20 And He said, "I will hide My face from them. I will see what their end will be, for they are a generation of changes; they are not [recognizable] as My children whom I have reared.
21They have provoked My jealousy with a non god, provoked My anger with their vanities. Thus, I will provoke their jealousy with a non people, provoke their anger with a foolish nation.
22For a fire blazed in My wrath, and burned to the lowest depths. It consumed the land and its produce, setting aflame the foundations of mountains.
So you can see what is being referred to there.
Those Jews who go astray and follow the false gods of nations.
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A "non-people" is the fakestinians.
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Rashi's commentary on Line 21 as as follows:
have provoked my jealousy: They kindled My anger.
with a non-god: With something that is not a god.
with a non-people: With a nation that has no name, as Scripture states, “This land of the Chaldeans-this people was not” (Isa. 23:13). And regarding Esau, Scripture states, “You are very despised” (Obad. 1:2).
I will… provoke their anger with a foolish nation: These are the heretics. So Scripture states,“The fool (נָבָל) said in his heart, There is no God!” (Ps. 14:1). - [Sifrei 32: 21]
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A "non-people" is the fakestinians.
According to who? Every source I have read interprets this according to the simple interpretation according to the context it appears. Hashem is talking about when Israel has gone astray, how he will confound those who worship false gods by making them into a non-nation, leaving them to be absorbed by the nations.
Please provide context for your interpretation besides a simple statement.
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Of course I agree with your assertion the fakestinians are a non-people.... But there were none when Torah was given, and this portion is mainly discussing what will happen to the Jews should we not keep our covenant.
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Of course I agree with your assertion the fakestinians are a non-people.... But there were none when Torah was given, and this portion is mainly discussing what will happen to the Jews should we not keep our covenant.
Of course there were none. There never will be. But it is a prophesy. Self-hating Jews not keeping the covenant brings the fakestinians as a punishment. In the same way, G-d sent his John Ba'al Kerry because we acted to G-d with keri.
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You're missing the point if you said it refers to then. It does, but the parsha is the story of today. When asking Moshiah why he did not come the next day as he said, he replied, "because today is like yesterday". It's the same story over and over again.