JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dexter on August 30, 2007, 06:43:45 AM
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What is your opinion about Karaite Judaism ?
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What is your opinion about Karaite Judaism ?
I have a friend who is a karaite nice guy
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O...K... :P
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They're heretics and are cut off from the Jewish people.
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Karaite "Judaism" has never been accepted by the Orthodox community. Also, many of them are no longer even halachically Jewish, as they believe in Patrilinear descent rather than Matrilinear.
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They're heretics and are cut off from the Jewish people.
Thank you very much for giving me the knoledge that i'm a heretic :laugh:
We don't believe that the Oral Torah gaved to Moses in sinai, we believe ALL tanakh .
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most are completedly halachically Jewish i am friends with someone who is a karaite although he's not religious as karaite or Jewish regular
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They are a very small minority and they do not follow the Talmud.
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Correct but they are Jewish
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Thank you very much for giving me the knoledge that i'm a heretic :laugh:
We don't believe that the Oral Torah gaved to Moses in sinai, we believe ALL tanakh.
I did not know this, Dexter. Interesting.
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Karaite "Judaism" has never been accepted by the Orthodox community. Also, many of them are no longer even halachically Jewish, as they believe in Patrilinear descent rather than Matrilinear.
That's dangerous. They could pollute the House of Israel with non-Jews if this is the case.
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There is really no authority, because everyone can interpret the Tanach for themselves. The other problem is that it doesn't have historic continuity. After the destruction of the second Temple, the Sadducees pretty much died out and then history didn't see "scripture-only" movements within Judaism until around the 10th century when Karaism was started. Plus, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Sadducees only followed the 5 books of the Torah, whereas the Karaites follow the full Tanach that was accepted by regular Orthodox Jews.
That is not true, we can't distrot the torah for our needs, while we trying to clarify a verse from the tanakh we need allways remember that what G-d said is the most importent and the human needs should be throwed out the window .
The first Jews that puted Tphilin on tham, and therefor believed in so called "Oral Torah" were a cult name Pharisees that was created in the 2 centery B.C.E., their named Pharisees (Prushim in hebrew) because they leaved the mainstreem of Judaism in those days, that didn't believed in what we know today as Oral Torah, they, the Pharisees (wich are the base for today's orthodox judaism) said they are the only one that they and only they have the right to try and clarify verses from the Tanakh, and their "clarify verses" are what we know today as the Talmud .
I don't know how they had no shame to claim only they have the right to try and clarify verses from the Tanakh, because their number was only 6000 !!!
The other jews didn't believed in the Oral Torah AT ALL.
After the Bar Kochva rebelion the Pharisees became very strong and actually ruled the Jewish way of thought, but the original Jews were never destroyd, and in the 8th centery B.C.E. a non-believer of the Oral Torah name Anan ben David decided to unite all jews that didn't believed in the Oral Torah, later only the Karaite Judaism have been created that their goal is to make the jewish people come back to his original believes .
Actually, the "Jewish principles of faith" that the Rambam mantiond were the SAME Jewish principles of faith that a karaite rav name Yehuda ben Eliyahu Hadassi mantiond while the Rambam was only 13 years old, that means that the karaites were first to know what are the most important thing in Judaism .
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Karaite "Judaism" has never been accepted by the Orthodox community. Also, many of them are no longer even halachically Jewish, as they believe in Patrilinear descent rather than Matrilinear.
That's dangerous. They could pollute the House of Israel with non-Jews if this is the case.
If someone could explein me what the words Matrilinear and Patrilinear means I would love to answere OdKahaneChai's post.
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MAT- from Mother (Jews believe that you being Jewish has to do with the fact that your mother was Jewish) Pat- threw father.
Karaites are not Halahically Jewish, they are assimilated by the most part and are mostly russians not Jews.
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MAT- from Mother (Jews believe that you being Jewish has to do with the fact that your mother was Jewish) Pat- threw father.
Karaites are not Halahically Jewish, they are assimilated by the most part and are mostly russians not Jews.
Lol, that is nonsense, the center of Karaites jews was in Egypt, and every russin Karaite, although they are only few, is "converted" again to Karaite Judaism and they also test their DNA to check if they are ethniclly jewish .
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Karaite "Judaism" has never been accepted by the Orthodox community. Also, many of them are no longer even halachically Jewish, as they believe in Patrilinear descent rather than Matrilinear.
Because that is how it was in the time of the Torah .
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Karaite "Judaism" has never been accepted by the Orthodox community. Also, many of them are no longer even halachically Jewish, as they believe in Patrilinear descent rather than Matrilinear.
Because that is how it was in the time of the Torah .
Your father determines which tribe you belong to, your mother if your Jewish or not, actually in Sefardic communities we try not to reach out to families which are technically Jewish (a jewish mother marrying a goy), becuase it is a grave sin and we should have nothing to do with it. For Askenazim unfortunatly the situation is very very bad, whateva each person has a free choice he or she can do what e wants but will pay a heavy price in the next world for sure.
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Dexter, I am shocked you consider yourself a Kaarite. This is a completely heretical sect. You cannot observe or understand even the simplest thing in the Written Torah without the Oral Torah. There are many many allusions in the written Torah to the fact that there was also a written tradition handed down along with it.
Without the oral tradition, for instance, for tefillin you should probably just put a dot on your hand and that's it. Because all the Torah says is "place a sign on your hand". This is just one example of how the Torah is utterly unobservable without the oral explanations.
I recommend you distance yourself from these heretics as much as possible. They are out to destroy the observance of true Judaism.
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The Karaite plot blamed !
Lulab, I just want you to know that NO jew ever put Tphilin on him untile the 2 centery B.C. and that is a FACT .
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Dexter- were you born a karaite or are you Jewish who has decided to be a karaite? (or are your parents Jewish but secular).
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I have decided to be a karaite, and my parents are Jewish but secular .
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Karate Judaism? Love it, the way they do the flying kicks is really cool! ;D
;)
Seriously, first time I've ever heard of it. :)
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Trying to study Torah without the Oral Law would be like navigating a sailboat through a reef without charts. It's 99.9% guaranteed to have a tradgedy.
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Karaite "Judaism" has never been accepted by the Orthodox community. Also, many of them are no longer even halachically Jewish, as they believe in Patrilinear descent rather than Matrilinear.
That's dangerous. They could pollute the House of Israel with non-Jews if this is the case.
every Jew who wants to get married today must check with this organization (dont know the name but when I get married I will ask my Rabbi becuase he said this). It thorougly checks who is Jewish and who is not (it has background information research, etc.), today you MUST check, even though the other person seems to be Jewish and even if he or she observes mitzvot you must check expecially for Askenazim.
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I have decided to be a karaite, and my parents are Jewish but secular .
okay then I assume you are Jewish.
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I have decided to be a karaite, and my parents are Jewish but secular .
okay then I assume you are Jewish.
I am :-X
Trying to study Torah without the Oral Law would be like navigating a sailboat through a reef without charts. It's 99.9% guaranteed to have a tradgedy.
And you know it because...? (I'm not trying to insult you ;) )
The karaites studied the Torah very well, you can see it yourself with the fact that the Karaites jews were the first (befor the rambam) that said all 13 Jewish principles of faith .
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The Karaite plot blamed !
Lulab, I just want you to know that NO jew ever put Tphilin on him untile the 2 centery B.C.E. and that is a FACT .
Dexter, why don't you ask Chaim what he thinks about your Kaarite beliefs on the next JTF. I think it will be more meaningful coming from him.
P.S. What you're saying about Tefillin is a COMPLETE LIE, by the way.
Go try and prove that nobody ever put on tefllin before that time.
Have fun trying to prove a negative. Who sold you on this stuff? You sound a little brainwashed, no offense.
If anyone tells you it's a fact that Nobody did AB and C they are a liar. You can't prove that someone never did something. It is proving a negative.
So I know you're way off base from the beginning.
Now if you want to say the earliest teffililn they have found are from that date, that may be true, but remember that "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" that's a good logical tip for you to remember.
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He already made a video on the hebrew forum, a video that a bit insulted me ....
But i answerd him, let's see what he'll say .
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He already made a video on the hebrew forum, a video that a bit insulted me ....
But i answerd him, let's see what he'll say .
P.S. What you're saying about Tefillin is a COMPLETE LIE, by the way.
Go try and prove that nobody ever put on tefllin before that time.
Have fun trying to prove a negative. Who sold you on this stuff? You sound a little brainwashed, no offense.
If anyone tells you it's a fact that Nobody did AB and C they are a liar. You can't prove that someone never did something. It is proving a negative.
So I know you're way off base from the beginning.
Now if you want to say the earliest teffililn they have found are from that date, that may be true, but remember that "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" that's a good logical tip for you to remember.
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They follow the Torah, keep the sabbath, and are kosher? Then they're Jewish! Helloooo!
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P.S. What you're saying about Tefillin is a COMPLETE LIE, by the way.
Go try and prove that nobody ever put on tefllin before that time.
Have fun trying to prove a negative. Who sold you on this stuff? You sound a little brainwashed, no offense.
If anyone tells you it's a fact that Nobody did AB and C they are a liar. You can't prove that someone never did something. It is proving a negative.
So I know you're way off base from the beginning.
Now if you want to say the earliest teffililn they have found are from that date, that may be true, but remember that "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" that's a good logical tip for you to remember.
That is not a lie, the first time that we ever hear about wearing tphilin in the Mishna, and again, it's a fact .
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They follow the Torah, keep the sabbath, and are kosher? Then they're Jewish! Helloooo!
lol, no they dont.
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They follow the Torah, keep the sabbath, and are kosher? Then they're Jewish! Helloooo!
lol, no they dont.
And I can say you aren't Jewish at all because you are doing a great sin by not listening to the law in DEUTERONOMY CHAPTER 4 VERSE 2 :
Ye shall not aadd unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your G-d which I command you
And I don't say it, because I'm not mean as you are, absolutely disgusting .
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They follow the Torah, keep the sabbath, and are kosher? Then they're Jewish! Helloooo!
lol, no they dont.
What of those three tenents of Judaism are they not doing?
I have another test for Judaism myself, goes like this, if this were 1940 Nazi Germany, would he be sitting on the next bunk in the concentration camp. If so, he passed the test.
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They follow the Torah, keep the sabbath, and are kosher? Then they're Jewish! Helloooo!
lol, no they dont.
What of those three tenents of Judaism are they not doing?
I have another test for Judaism myself, goes like this, if this were 1940 Nazi Germany, would he be sitting on the next bunk in the concentration camp. If so, he passed the test.
Sorry, but doing Jewish things does NOT make one a Jew.
Wearing a pope hat and chucking holy water off the balcony at 'st peter's' doesn't make one the pope.
A Jew is one born of a Jewish mother or Hallachicly converted.....no exceptions.
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They follow the Torah, keep the sabbath, and are kosher? Then they're Jewish! Helloooo!
lol, no they dont.
What of those three tenents of Judaism are they not doing?
I have another test for Judaism myself, goes like this, if this were 1940 Nazi Germany, would he be sitting on the next bunk in the concentration camp. If so, he passed the test.
Sorry, but doing Jewish things does NOT make one a Jew.
Wearing a pope hat and chucking holy water off the balcony at 'st peter's' doesn't make one the pope.
A Jew is one born of a Jewish mother or Hallachicly converted.....no exceptions.
They are practicing Judaism, what else is there? So I'm pretty sure their moms are Jews. Different sects of Jews practice in there own way, but it's the same Torah.
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They follow the Torah, keep the sabbath, and are kosher? Then they're Jewish! Helloooo!
lol, no they dont.
What of those three tenents of Judaism are they not doing?
I have another test for Judaism myself, goes like this, if this were 1940 Nazi Germany, would he be sitting on the next bunk in the concentration camp. If so, he passed the test.
first of all hitler does not decide who is a Jew and who isnt, second I do belive that hitler didnt do anything to them becuase even he did realize that they werent Jewish. anyway they are wayy to small and insugnificant.
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first of all hitler does not decide who is a Jew and who isnt, second I do belive that hitler didnt do anything to them becuase even he did realize that they werent Jewish. anyway they are wayy to small and insugnificant.
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No he doesn't, but if someone would have been killed for being Jewish, and says he's Jewish, and follows the Torah, that's good enough for me.
What? Someone doesn't practice exactly like you, then they're not Jewish? A bit sanctamonious and arrogant aren't we.
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dexter and any jew who belives that their is any validity to karites go to divineinformation.com , click on videos and click on divineinformation, the proof is brought both by the Oral and Written Torah.
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first of all hitler does not decide who is a Jew and who isnt, second I do belive that hitler didnt do anything to them becuase even he did realize that they werent Jewish. anyway they are wayy to small and insugnificant.
No he doesn't, but if someone would have been killed for being Jewish, and says he's Jewish, and follows the Torah, that's good enough for me.
What? Someone doesn't practice exactly like you, then they're not Jewish? A bit sanctamonious and arrogant aren't we.
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Judaism isnt a salad bar, and no, being jewish and denieng the Oral Law is not practicing Judaism, even a tiny bit. I didnt say one isnt Jewish for not practicing, but we can assume that karaites are not Jewish (the ones who say their parents are karaites, not ones like dexter who says his parents are non-observent Jews bt not karaites- but even they are questionable and must be checked to see if they are Jews).
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I've just been to their website, they seem Jewish to me, they're following the Torah, I have no problem with them.
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I've just been to their website, they seem Jewish to me, they're following the Torah, I have no problem with them.
dont proselitize please.
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That was called an opinion, not proselitizing. Why, did my opinion make you want to convert?
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Why, did my opinion make you want to convert?
G-d forbid, HELLL no. Why would anyone want to join that cult is beyond me.
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Well there ya go. I must be a crappy proselitizer then. ;D
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Dexter learn about the origins of your cult.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe4WF87AZak
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P.S. What you're saying about Tefillin is a COMPLETE LIE, by the way.
Go try and prove that nobody ever put on tefllin before that time.
Have fun trying to prove a negative. Who sold you on this stuff? You sound a little brainwashed, no offense.
If anyone tells you it's a fact that Nobody did AB and C they are a liar. You can't prove that someone never did something. It is proving a negative.
So I know you're way off base from the beginning.
Now if you want to say the earliest teffililn they have found are from that date, that may be true, but remember that "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" that's a good logical tip for you to remember.
That is not a lie, the first time that we ever hear about wearing tphilin in the Mishna, and again, it's a fact .
So the first time that "we" hear about something, means it's the first time it happened? Are you nuts?
Dexter, out of curiosity, how do you and your Kaarite friends fulfill the Biblical commandment "Vehayu LeTotafot Bein Einecha"?
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I also hope you sit in COMPLETE darkness the entire Shabbat because it says: "you should not have any fire in your dwellings".
That is the Kaarite interpretation.
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One who does not believe in the Oral Torah does not have a place in the world to come. Rambam's principles of faith.
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Karaite Judaism is not real Judaism, it an heretical group based on the Seducites that arose during the second Temple era. Dexter, the basis of Judaism is the transmission of Torah from your parents and grand parents to yourself. The Oral law started with Moses and continues to this day as you and me derive new interpreations to the Torah and discover new information in the Torah's infinite wisdom. If you understand this then you understand why the Oral Law must be true. However, since you were brought up secular, you have no link to the previous generation and without this link you will never understand what real Judaism is about. So I advise you to find some elderly religious Jews in your community and ask them to transmit to you their life stories and their tradition, perhaps learn with you a little Chumash and you will understand the basis of Judaism.
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Without the Oral tradition you can't even read one word from the written Torah. Hebrew does not have any meaning without the vowels.
The vowels are not found in the written Torah, only in the Oral Tradition. So if you don't believe in the Oral Tradition the Torah is no better than a bunch of ink on parchment. You can make it mean whatever you want.
You don't even need to say it's Hebrew, because we only know what Hebrew is from the Oral Tradition. It doesn't tell you anywhere in the Oral Torah what an Aleph or a Beit looks like. These things are all handed down in the oral chain.
And I'm just getting started....
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This discussion has me curious where everyone is coming from, I was recently told that Judaism isn't a salad bar, well it sort of is, isn't it? From my observations there's all sorts of Jews.
So what variety of Jew are you? It'll better help us understand where we are coming from.
To be fair, I'll start.
I'm a Sepharadic Jew, born in the USA, but my parents and family are from Casablanca Morocco. (You'd think with that background I'd be able to get a decent tan right ::) so such luck, blue eyed white guy, go figure)
So I'm pretty much secular, don't read or speak hebrew, and never had interest in practicing, (okay lost 3/4 of you now ;) ) was told by my dad (who did practice and was religious) that we are "Conservative Sepharadic", dunno what that means exactly, and something was most probably was lost in translation as english was his second language and he learned english late in life, so what he meant by "Conservative" probably had a different meaning than your definition.
From when I did actually go to temple, (while I was still young enough to be dragged there against my will as a child) was that the rituals/services were completely conducted in hebrew, with the prayer shawls, etc.
Unlike some other secular Jews, I'm not hostile towards my brethren, as a matter of fact, I loath the self hating variety with all the vitriol I can muster.
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Dexter my friend, there is only one kind of judaism,
and that's the one god gave us through moses on mount sinai.
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They follow the Torah, keep the sabbath, and are kosher? Then they're Jewish! Helloooo!
lol, no they dont.
And I can say you aren't Jewish at all because you are doing a great sin by not listening to the law in DEUTERONOMY CHAPTER 4 VERSE 2 :
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your G-d which I command you
And I don't say it, because I'm not mean as you are, absolutely disgusting .
But the Oral Law was given to Moses at Har Sinai - at the same time as the written law! So no words were added, none were taken away, none were changed!
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The lot of you are way more religious than me, so you can argue out the details amoungst yourselves.
But like I said before, in the days of the Nazi's we'd ALL be on the same trains to the concentration camps, and today's Nazi's, the muslims don't give a damn either.
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The lot of you are way more religious than me, so you can argue out the details amoungst yourselves.
But like I said before, in the days of the Nazi's we'd ALL be on the same trains to the concentration camps, and today's Nazi's, the muslims don't give a damn either.
So I guess that finally proves that Karaites aren't... Muslims. Thanks.
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So I guess that finally proves that Karaites aren't... Muslims. Thanks.
They're Jews, they follow the Torah? Check, They keep kosher? Check, They keep the sabbath? Check. They're a hell of a lot more Jewish than the Reformed Jews.
And yeah, if the muslims had the chance, they'd kill them just as fast for being a JEW as you!
With the whole world against us Jews you think you can afford to piss on your brothers because they practice a little differently than you.
And for the record, Iin case you think I have some bias or agenda, there's none, I'm not a Karaite, I don't know any, and as a matter of fact, today on this thread, is the first time I have ever heard of them.
But with my way of thinking, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks, it's a duck. The Karaites follow the Torah, keep Kosher and keep the Sabbath, that's Jewish in my book.
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So I guess that finally proves that Karaites aren't... Muslims. Thanks.
They're Jews, they follow the Torah? Check, They keep kosher? Check, They keep the sabbath? Check. They're a hell of a lot more Jewish than the Reformed Jews.
And yeah, if the muslims had the chance, they'd kill them just as fast for being a JEW as you!
With the whole world against us Jews you think you can afford to piss on your brothers because they practice a little differently than you.
And for the record, Iin case you think I have some bias or agenda, there's none, I'm not a Karaite, I don't know any, and as a matter of fact, today on this thread, is the first time I have ever heard of them.
But with my way of thinking, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks, it's a duck. The Karaites follow the Torah, keep Kosher and keep the Sabbath, that's Jewish in my book.
2 down, 611 to go...
And trust me - they don't just practice [/i]a little[/i] different than me.
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"2 down, 611 to go..."
2 down, 611 to go? I don't get it. ???
"And trust me - they don't just practice a little different than me."
Ha, try going to a Reformed service, you'll wonder where are the Jews, and who all the goys are.
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"2 down, 611 to go..."
2 down, 611 to go? I don't get it. ???
"And trust me - they don't just practice a little different than me."
Ha, try going to a Reformed service, you'll wonder where are the Jews, and who all the goys are.
karaities are just as bad if not worse then reform, actually they all belonge to the same group, the group of making a man made religion and cult. It would be better for Jews who believe (and expecially preach) in these non-sense to just convert to christianity and have nothing to do with Jews any longer. Unfortunatly it is not the case, their attachment to Jews and their belief that they are practicing Judaism has brought soo much destruction and damage to Jews throughout history, we are still suffering from their (not really karaites, but reform and the secular eruz rav entity) influences.
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One more thing.
Dexter is completely right when he says that you will not find written evidence of the oral tradition of how tefillin should look in between the time of the giving of the Torah and the writing of the Mishna.
There is a very good reason for this. Because it was an ORAL TRADITION. Nobody was allowed to write the oral tradition down. It was not meant to be written down at all.
This oral tradition was passed down in a perfect chain of 40 generations from Moses to Yehoshua and so on through the greatest Torah scholars and Tzaddikim of each generation.
That is until Rabbi Judah the Prince, the giant of his generation decided that if this continues in an oral chain, with the weakening of the minds of the new generations it might start to be distorted. That's why he wrote it down as the Mishna. And there is where you'll see the oral tradition exactly as it was handed down through the 40 genarations. In the Rambam's Mishne Torah you can see exactly who were transmitters of the Mesorah (oral tradition) over those 40 generations.
They were all incredible Torah giants. Not ever to even be spoken in the same breathe as the Kararite traitor-ignoramuses.
Dexter, it's Elul now. It's a good time to rededicate yourself to the entire Torah and reclaim your share in the world to come.
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lol, I think karaite comes from the word Karet- which means Cut Off.
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"2 down, 611 to go..."
2 down, 611 to go? I don't get it. ???
"And trust me - they don't just practice a little different than me."
Ha, try going to a Reformed service, you'll wonder where are the Jews, and who all the goys are.
Oh, trust me. I know about reformed services. Try having to have a "Bar Mitzvah" at one of those places. And you can tell the goyim from the Jews in those - because the goyim are the ones paying attention.
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"2 down, 611 to go..."
2 down, 611 to go? I don't get it. ???
"And trust me - they don't just practice a little different than me."
Ha, try going to a Reformed service, you'll wonder where are the Jews, and who all the goys are.
Oh, trust me. I know about reformed services. Try having to have a "Bar Mitzvah" at one of those places. And you can tell the goyim from the Jews in those - because the goyim are the ones paying attention.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
OKC, that sounds just like Jackie Mason.
A goy hears a Hebrew prayer and says "OOOO, that's spiritual"
A Jew says "AHHHH!....Too Jewish"
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"2 down, 611 to go..."
2 down, 611 to go? I don't get it. ???
"And trust me - they don't just practice a little different than me."
Ha, try going to a Reformed service, you'll wonder where are the Jews, and who all the goys are.
Oh, trust me. I
know about reformed services. Try having to have a "Bar Mitzvah" at one of those places. And you can tell the goyim from the Jews in those - because the goyim are the ones paying attention.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
OKC, that sounds just like Jackie Mason.
A goy hears a Hebrew prayer and says "OOOO, that's spiritual"
A Jew says "AHHHH!....Too Jewish"
Its not funny its sad. :(
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Chaim just did a special Hebrew video about this subject to try to save Dexter from this evil treasonous cult.
Apparently, the video did no good as Dexter is continuing to preach heresy.
The founder of the Karaites, Anan Ben David, was a traitor Jew who proclaimed that Mohammed, the founder of Nazi Islam, was a "prophet"!
The Karaites are NOT Jews. They have created their own new religious cult.
Any Jew who denies the Oral Law is denying the entire Torah.
New Yorker, for your information, the Nazis did not kill the Karaites because they understood that they are NOT Jews.
We are not going to tolerate prosletyzing on this forum for a cult whose founder called Mohammed a "prophet".
Dexter, everyone on the Hebrew forum tried to convince you that this is insane and the argument went on for days. Thank G-d on our Hebrew forum, no one else is attracted to this evil cult. But here on the English forum, I see that some people who are uninformed might be misled by this, and we will not allow this to continue.
Also, I have changed the title of this thread. You are calling this cult "Judaism" in the title. That is a lie.
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Chaim just did a special Hebrew video about this subject to try to save Dexter from this evil treasonous cult.
Apparently, the video did no good as Dexter is continuing to preach heresy.
The founder of the Karaites, Anan Ben David, was a traitor Jew who proclaimed that Mohammed, the founder of Nazi Islam, was a "prophet"!
The Karaites are NOT Jews. They have created their own new religious cult.
Any Jew who denies the Oral Law is denying the entire Torah.
New Yorker, for your information, the Nazis did not kill the Karaites because they understood that they are NOT Jews.
We are not going to tolerate prosletyzing on this forum for a cult whose founder called Mohammed a "prophet".
Dexter, everyone on the Hebrew forum tried to convince you that this is insane and the argument went on for days. Thank G-d on our Hebrew forum, no one else is attracted to this evil cult. But here on the English forum, I see that some people who are uninformed might be misled by this, and we will not allow this to continue.
Also, I have changed the title of this thread. You are calling this cult "Judaism" in the title. That is a lie.
Nicly stated.
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Also I deleted the cult's web site that was placed here by a poster.
I have to warn people that if you place links to cult web sites that are working to destroy the Jewish people, not only will the links be deleted, but the posters who place the links after seeing this warning will be banned.
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I hope we don't lose Dexter over this... what a tragedy that would be.
Dexter, please read my thread about the Talmud:
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=7898.msg71931#msg71931 (http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=7898.msg71931#msg71931)
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Also I deleted the cult's web site that was placed here by a poster.
I have to warn people that if you place links to cult web sites that are working to destroy the Jewish people, not only will the links be deleted, but the posters who place the links after seeing this warning will be banned.
Exactly! There should be no slack on this rule whatsoever !!
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Please keep in mind Dexter's age. We DON'T want to lose him.
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Please keep in mind Dexter's age. We DON'T want to lose him.
hes still younge, its much easier to influence and mold his mind in the proper direction.
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Please keep in mind Dexter's age. We DON'T want to lose him.
By all means. I didn't mean Dexter. Dexter will come around I am sure of it.
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It's true that Dexter is still very young. But everyone on the Hebrew forum went out of their way trying to show him that this is crazy. And today, Chaim even devoted his entire Hebrew video to this subject.
I lost friends of mine on 911. After everything the Muslims have done to us, I cannot tolerate someone promoting a pro-Muslim cult whose founder praised the monster Mohammed.
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It's true that Dexter is still very young. But everyone on the Hebrew forum went out of their way trying to show him that this is crazy. And today, Chaim even devoted his entire Hebrew video to this subject.
I lost friends of mine on 911. After everything the Muslims have done to us, I cannot tolerate someone promoting a pro-Muslim cult whose founder praised the monster Mohammed.
Did they actually praise him, or consider him an evil goy prohet like the babylonian guy?
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The founder of the Karaites, Anan Ben David, was placed on trial in Baghdad 1200 years ago by the Islamic Caliph. To get himself acquitted, he called Mohammed a "prophet", praised Islam and Muslims, and condemned the Rabbis and the Talmud.
In exchange, the Muslim Caliph recognized and helped promote the Karaites. Because the Muslims saw this as a way to spiritually destroy the Jews.
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The founder of the Karaites, Anan Ben David, was placed on trial in Baghdad 1200 years ago by the Islamic Caliph. To get himself acquitted, he called Mohammed a "prophet", praised Islam and Muslims, and condemned the Rabbis and the Talmud.
In exchange, the Muslim Caliph recognized and helped promote the Karaites. Because the Muslims saw this as a way to spiritually destroy the Jews.
Well that's herasy, pure & simple.
Do the rest of them still consider the rapist pig Mo' a 'prophet' today?
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lol, I think karaite comes from the word Karet- which means Cut Off.
lol in hebrew their name is Kara'im ::)
And I didn't know so many people hate us .
Goodbye . ;)
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lol, I think karaite comes from the word Karet- which means Cut Off.
lol in hebrew their name is Kara'im ::)
And I didn't know so many people hate us .
Goodbye . ;)
Dexter,
Please don't go anywhere or do anything hastey.
Why not talk to Lubab and Chaim privately and think things over?
There's no rush, is there?
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The founder of the Karaites, Anan Ben David, was placed on trial in Baghdad 1200 years ago by the Islamic Caliph. To get himself acquitted, he called Mohammed a "prophet", praised Islam and Muslims, and condemned the Rabbis and the Talmud.
In exchange, the Muslim Caliph recognized and helped promote the Karaites. Because the Muslims saw this as a way to spiritually destroy the Jews.
Anan Ben David wasn't the founder of the Karaites, the Karaites were existed much befor Anan Ben David was even born . And they DON'T believe in mohammed and yeshu .
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Chaim just did a special Hebrew video about this subject to try to save Dexter from this evil treasonous cult.
Apparently, the video did no good as Dexter is continuing to preach heresy.
The founder of the Karaites, Anan Ben David, was a traitor Jew who proclaimed that Mohammed, the founder of Nazi Islam, was a "prophet"!
The Karaites are NOT Jews. They have created their own new religious cult.
Any Jew who denies the Oral Law is denying the entire Torah.
New Yorker, for your information, the Nazis did not kill the Karaites because they understood that they are NOT Jews.
We are not going to tolerate prosletyzing on this forum for a cult whose founder called Mohammed a "prophet".
Dexter, everyone on the Hebrew forum tried to convince you that this is insane and the argument went on for days. Thank G-d on our Hebrew forum, no one else is attracted to this evil cult. But here on the English forum, I see that some people who are uninformed might be misled by this, and we will not allow this to continue.
Also, I have changed the title of this thread. You are calling this cult "Judaism" in the title. That is a lie.
I don't preach !!
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One more thing.
Dexter is completely right when he says that you will not find written evidence of the oral tradition of how tefillin should look in between the time of the giving of the Torah and the writing of the Mishna.
There is a very good reason for this. Because it was an ORAL TRADITION. Nobody was allowed to write the oral tradition down. It was not meant to be written down at all.
This oral tradition was passed down in a perfect chain of 40 generations from Moses to Yehoshua and so on through the greatest Torah scholars and Tzaddikim of each generation.
That is until Rabbi Judah the Prince, the giant of his generation decided that if this continues in an oral chain, with the weakening of the minds of the new generations it might start to be distorted. That's why he wrote it down as the Mishna. And there is where you'll see the oral tradition exactly as it was handed down through the 40 genarations. In the Rambam's Mishne Torah you can see exactly who were transmitters of the Mesorah (oral tradition) over those 40 generations.
They were all incredible Torah giants. Not ever to even be spoken in the same breathe as the Kararite traitor-ignoramuses.
Dexter, it's Elul now. It's a good time to rededicate yourself to the entire Torah and reclaim your share in the world to come.
Can't you understand that the verses about the "tphilin" are a COMPLETE METAPHOR ??
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And Anan Ben David never say he thinks that yeshu and muhammad are prophets, this is a complete lie !
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One more thing.
Dexter is completely right when he says that you will not find written evidence of the oral tradition of how tefillin should look in between the time of the giving of the Torah and the writing of the Mishna.
There is a very good reason for this. Because it was an ORAL TRADITION. Nobody was allowed to write the oral tradition down. It was not meant to be written down at all.
This oral tradition was passed down in a perfect chain of 40 generations from Moses to Yehoshua and so on through the greatest Torah scholars and Tzaddikim of each generation.
That is until Rabbi Judah the Prince, the giant of his generation decided that if this continues in an oral chain, with the weakening of the minds of the new generations it might start to be distorted. That's why he wrote it down as the Mishna. And there is where you'll see the oral tradition exactly as it was handed down through the 40 genarations. In the Rambam's Mishne Torah you can see exactly who were transmitters of the Mesorah (oral tradition) over those 40 generations.
They were all incredible Torah giants. Not ever to even be spoken in the same breathe as the Kararite traitor-ignoramuses.
Dexter, it's Elul now. It's a good time to rededicate yourself to the entire Torah and reclaim your share in the world to come.
Can't you understand that the verses about the "tphilin" are a COMPLETE METAPHOR ??
Well since you only believe in the Written Torah it can mean whateve you want right?
There is no reason to say that the letters there are even Hebrew letters. The Written Torah doesn't tell you that it's Hebrew. It doesn't tell you how to pronounce any of the letters or what vowels to use.
We only know all that from Oral tradition.
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Even if you only want to go by the Written Torah you still must believe in the oral Torah because the written Torah tells you that there are explanations that G-d gave aside from what is written in the Torah.
For instance, when it comes to ritual slaughter G-d says:
"You shall slaughter your cattle... as I have commanded you"
(Deut. 12:21).
Now Dexter, please tell me where in the written Torah hyou will find G-d's explanations as to HOW to fulfill this commandment.
G-d says do it "as I commanded you". So how do we do it. Where to we find His explanation. It's not anywhere in the Written Torah. So where is it?
Answer: Only in the Oral Torah.
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One more thing.
Dexter is completely right when he says that you will not find written evidence of the oral tradition of how tefillin should look in between the time of the giving of the Torah and the writing of the Mishna.
There is a very good reason for this. Because it was an ORAL TRADITION. Nobody was allowed to write the oral tradition down. It was not meant to be written down at all.
This oral tradition was passed down in a perfect chain of 40 generations from Moses to Yehoshua and so on through the greatest Torah scholars and Tzaddikim of each generation.
That is until Rabbi Judah the Prince, the giant of his generation decided that if this continues in an oral chain, with the weakening of the minds of the new generations it might start to be distorted. That's why he wrote it down as the Mishna. And there is where you'll see the oral tradition exactly as it was handed down through the 40 genarations. In the Rambam's Mishne Torah you can see exactly who were transmitters of the Mesorah (oral tradition) over those 40 generations.
They were all incredible Torah giants. Not ever to even be spoken in the same breathe as the Kararite traitor-ignoramuses.
Dexter, it's Elul now. It's a good time to rededicate yourself to the entire Torah and reclaim your share in the world to come.
Can't you understand that the verses about the "tphilin" are a COMPLETE METAPHOR ??
Maybe mezuzah is a metaphor, and kosher and shabbat-maybe do not murder is also a metahpor-who knows we can ascribe any meaning we want in the wacky world of Kararite fun.
Oh it's so fun to able to make up things as you go along. This way we can get rid of all the commandments! Yay! We can just say their all metaphorical and we can do whatever we want! Yay again!
Since there's no vowels, the Torah can have the meaning WE want to ascribe to it.
Oh it's so good to be a Kararite cultist.
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Can practitoners of Karate eat milk with meat
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Can practitoners of Karate eat milk with meat
I don't see the relevance of eating milk with meat to the practice of a martial art. ::) Sorry, I couldn't resist.
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Can practitoners of Karate eat milk with meat
Absolutely. If you are a Kararite you can do what you want, when you want because you get to ascribe the meaning to each verse that YOU want.
If you don't like something. Say it's a metahpor. A metaphor for what? You can choose that too.
The written Torah doesn't say what's a metaphor and what's not. It doesn't tell you how to observe these laws, so it's up to you or your local Kararite cultist leader. Whichever you prefer.
I think I"ll start a Kararite halacha class.
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Can practitoners of Karate eat milk with meat
Absolutely. If you are a Kararite you can do what you want, when you want because you get to ascribe the meaning to each verse that YOU want.
If you don't like something. Say it's a metahpor. A metaphor for what? You can choose that too.
For example the can'nt boil a calf in it's mothers milk but they can drink milk on the side
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Exactly. And you it doesn't even say milk. It says Chet Lamed Vet, which I say has the vowels which make it Chaylev not Chalav. So it really means you can't boil it in the mother's FAT. FAT not milk.
And besides that's a metaphor too.
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Exactly. And you it doesn't even say milk. It says Chet Lamed Vet, which I say has the vowels which make it Chaylev not Chalav. So it really means you can't boil it in the mother's FAT. FAT not milk.
And besides that's a metaphor too.
true thats what someone told me about karaites i know one but with him it makesno difference since he's not religious so he just does'nt do anything
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"rabbis placed an injunction against it in case people got beef mixed up with poultry. "
Yeah, the rules with those kinds of rationalizations behind it seems overly cautious, or even OCD to me.
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Can practitoners of Karate eat milk with meat
They eat milk with poultry because birds are not the kid of the mother who has milk. Rabbinic Jews could also once do that but the rabbis placed an injunction against it in case people got beef mixed up with poultry.
It was much more than that. ITs not being ocd, the Rabbis with their great wisdom, made rules, and also brought down rules from tradition, so when it literally says in the Written Torah of not having cows meat with milk together it could be that it also included in tradition of not chicken, but it also can be a gazera (a decree) by the Rabbanim ZL, who said it has to be that way not to stumble and G-d forbid mix milk with meat. -a Rabbinic decree expecially made by the Sanhedrin is allmost as the same as a straight Torah law.
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Interesting. I've learned a lot about the fundamentals of Judaism in the last two days that I didn't know before. I had no knowledge that there was an Oral tradition, really, you might find it shocking but there's a whole lot of Jews out there just like me with almost zero education on their own religion, I thought to be a Jew, it was simply follow the Torah, keep the sabbath, and keep kosher, and that was it. Didn't know about the other things involved.
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Interesting. I've learned a lot about the fundamentals of Judaism in the last two days that I didn't know before. I had no knowledge that there was an Oral tradition, really, you might find it shocking but there's a whole lot of Jews out there just like me with almost zero education on their own religion, I thought to be a Jew, it was simply follow the Torah, keep the sabbath, and keep kosher, and that was it. Didn't know about the other things involved.
go to Kolyakov.org - a very great site, with many lectures, if you need more sites, holler.
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Interesting. I've learned a lot about the fundamentals of Judaism in the last two days that I didn't know before. I had no knowledge that there was an Oral tradition, really, you might find it shocking but there's a whole lot of Jews out there just like me with almost zero education on their own religion, I thought to be a Jew, it was simply follow the Torah, keep the sabbath, and keep kosher, and that was it. Didn't know about the other things involved.
go to Kolyakov.org - a very great site, with many lectures, if you need more sites, holler.
Thanks, good website. I'm enjoying the video lectures.
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Rational Approach to the Divinity of the Oral Tradition by Rabbi Lawrence Keleman:
Low Bandwidth: http://www.simpletoremember.com/audio/Rational_Approach_Divinity_Oral_Tradition.mp3
High Bandwidth: http://www.simpletoremember.com/audio/Rational_Approach_Divinity_Oral_Tradition-B.mp3