JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: admin on September 19, 2007, 11:03:16 AM
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What do people think?
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perhaps locked for Jews
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I voted yes too...if you're going to lock it for Jews..well, how do you know who is a Jew here?
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Wouldn't it be more effective shutting down the server and all voltage going to the server?
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I voted no.
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I voted no.
Me either .
Everyone has the right to do what he wants to do, and if you'll lock the forum it dosn't mean that some people will stop violeting the Shabbat .
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I voted yes too...if you're going to lock it for Jews..well, how do you know who is a Jew here?
let me just add, what about jews from different time zones?
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Yes.
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I voted yes too...if you're going to lock it for Jews..well, how do you know who is a Jew here?
let me just add, what about jews from different time zones?
It would be based on New York time just like the Hebrew forum is locked on Shabbat by Israel time.
my advice to you is this: talk to Chaim and ask him what is best..whatever is decided, I will personally accept..I only say close this forum on Shabbat because most Jews here are observant and I do not want to disrespect them...and secondly this movemetn is a religious zionist movement..therefore I do not want to non Jews to have the wrong impression of us.
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I voted Yes.
Dont know if you read this yet-
Whats the big deal if people dont go on once a week? okay, gentiles wont be on 1 time a week, whats the big deal? If you say it will be bad for the movement- then they can do other things- ex- the youtube campaign.
Even if their is an argument that it will hurt the movement (which it wont) Chaim said that if their is a conflict between the interests of the Jewish people and of the JTF movement the interests of the Jewish people takes and will take precedence.
- also look at the opportunity the movement can have by closing the forum on Shabbah - it will be a Kiddush Hashe-m letting Jews know the importance of Shabbat and that we dont dare to play around with this issue - then maybe with this and other things some Jews who are on the border can think to themselves and come to be completly Shomer Shabbah. -and if this is thanx to JTf or anyone here or anyone anywhere - you cant image the great reward in Olam Haba that awaits that person (if you want proof please state so- I will bring you the source).
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Tzvi Ben Roshel -
If so, we also should close the site in Gentile's holidays, don't we ?
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Tzvi Ben Roshel -
If so, we also should close the site in Gentile's holidays, don't we ?
no, they dont have a prohibition like the Jews do.
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Tzvi Ben Roshel -
If so, we also should close the site in Gentile's holidays, don't we ?
no, they dont have a prohibition like the Jews do.
OK, just answere my first post in this topic :
Everyone has the right to do what he wants to do, and if you'll lock the forum it dosn't mean that some people will stop violeting the Shabbat .
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Yakov did you change when I write Shabb and then a dash t , to the word for the 7th day?
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Tzvi Ben Roshel -
If so, we also should close the site in Gentile's holidays, don't we ?
no, they dont have a prohibition like the Jews do.
OK, just answere my first post in this topic :
Everyone has the right to do what he wants to do, and if you'll lock the forum it dosn't mean that some people will stop violeting the Shabbat .
yes but for one they wont be violating threw you. also the message is made. And one cant assist a person to do an avera. for example you cant give $ to a drug addict when then he will use that $ to buy drugs.
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I don't think it's the same case here, you have the option to be here, and you have the option to be in other forum at Shabbat, it's your choise, no one is helping you to choose it .
God gave us free will and we should use this gift, even if it's the wrong thing to do .
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I don't think it's the same case here, you have the option to be here, and you have the option to be in other forum at Shabbat, it's your choise, no one is helping you to choose it .
G-d gave us free will and we should use this gift, even if it's the wrong thing to do .
its exactly the same, the drug abuser also has a chance of getting the $ from someone else. And im sorry to say but if someone does a sin and one didnt protest or even worse one is giving them the tool to do it (for example you keep Shabbah your brother doest- its your computer and you let him use it on Shabbat you are also guilty- at the very least tell him he cant use it but also unplug the wires and hide some parts (if the item is yours).
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the drug abuser is a drugs addicted, therefor the drug abuser will prbobly take the money with no questions and no free will, it's diffrent when it's about the forum .
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the drug abuser is a drugs addicted, therefor the drug abuser will prbobly take the money with no questions and no free will, it's diffrent when it's about the forum .
sin is also an addiction. some averot to one extent others to another. -We have to purify ourselves as much as possible and try to rectify as much as possible. As with drugs the more you sin the more you are addicted to it. (also some are pulled to certain sins becuase of their previous life- and thats what they have to work hard to rectify).
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the drug abuser is a drugs addicted, therefor the drug abuser will prbobly take the money with no questions and no free will, it's diffrent when it's about the forum .
sin is also an addiction. some averot to one extent others to another. -We have to purify ourselves as much as possible and try to rectify as much as possible. As with drugs the more you sin the more you are addicted to it. (also some are pulled to certain sins becuase of their previous life- and thats what they have to work hard to rectify).
I don't think people actually enjoy to do "averot", buying shoes in shabbat is no fun at all, therefor I will never be addicted buyer (?), cooking an egg at Shabbat is not fun either, than why would I become addicted to this avera ?
you can be addicted to camputers, but if you aren't on this forum than you'll be on other forum, maybe you'll watch chaim's videos at Shabbat, that is an avera, did Chaim helped us to do it ? of course not, it's the same case in JTF's forum .
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the drug abuser is a drugs addicted, therefor the drug abuser will prbobly take the money with no questions and no free will, it's diffrent when it's about the forum .
sin is also an addiction. some averot to one extent others to another. -We have to purify ourselves as much as possible and try to rectify as much as possible. As with drugs the more you sin the more you are addicted to it. (also some are pulled to certain sins becuase of their previous life- and thats what they have to work hard to rectify).
I don't think people actually enjoy to do "averot", buying shoes in shabbat is no fun at all, therefor I will never be addicted buyer (?), cooking an egg at Shabbat is not fun either, than why would I become addicted to this avera ?
you can be addicted to camputers, but if you aren't on this forum than you'll be on other forum, maybe you'll watch chaim's videos at Shabbat, that is an avera, did Chaim helped us to do it ? of course not, it's the same case in JTF's forum .
He cant control you not watching the video's (maybe he can by telling people not to), but closing the forum is a controllable option.
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the drug abuser is a drugs addicted, therefor the drug abuser will prbobly take the money with no questions and no free will, it's diffrent when it's about the forum .
sin is also an addiction. some averot to one extent others to another. -We have to purify ourselves as much as possible and try to rectify as much as possible. As with drugs the more you sin the more you are addicted to it. (also some are pulled to certain sins becuase of their previous life- and thats what they have to work hard to rectify).
I don't think people actually enjoy to do "averot", buying shoes in shabbat is no fun at all, therefor I will never be addicted buyer (?), cooking an egg at Shabbat is not fun either, than why would I become addicted to this avera ?
you can be addicted to camputers, but if you aren't on this forum than you'll be on other forum, maybe you'll watch chaim's videos at Shabbat, that is an avera, did Chaim helped us to do it ? of course not, it's the same case in JTF's forum .
He cant control you not watching the video's (maybe he can by telling people not to), but closing the forum is a controllable option.
He can remove tham befor shabbat and than re-upload tham at sundey .
But that's a lot of work, than if you closing the forum at Shabbat than go until the end, you can't do a half and think you are clean, that's how it's works, no ?
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the drug abuser is a drugs addicted, therefor the drug abuser will prbobly take the money with no questions and no free will, it's diffrent when it's about the forum .
sin is also an addiction. some averot to one extent others to another. -We have to purify ourselves as much as possible and try to rectify as much as possible. As with drugs the more you sin the more you are addicted to it. (also some are pulled to certain sins becuase of their previous life- and thats what they have to work hard to rectify).
I don't think people actually enjoy to do "averot", buying shoes in shabbat is no fun at all, therefor I will never be addicted buyer (?), cooking an egg at Shabbat is not fun either, than why would I become addicted to this avera ?
you can be addicted to camputers, but if you aren't on this forum than you'll be on other forum, maybe you'll watch chaim's videos at Shabbat, that is an avera, did Chaim helped us to do it ? of course not, it's the same case in JTF's forum .
He cant control you not watching the video's (maybe he can by telling people not to), but closing the forum is a controllable option.
He can remove tham befor shabbat and than re-upload tham at sundey .
But that's a lot of work, than if you closing the forum at Shabbat than go untile the end, you can't do a half and think you are clean, that's how it's works, no ?
something is better then nothing. You should become a lawyer.
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the drug abuser is a drugs addicted, therefor the drug abuser will prbobly take the money with no questions and no free will, it's diffrent when it's about the forum .
sin is also an addiction. some averot to one extent others to another. -We have to purify ourselves as much as possible and try to rectify as much as possible. As with drugs the more you sin the more you are addicted to it. (also some are pulled to certain sins becuase of their previous life- and thats what they have to work hard to rectify).
I don't think people actually enjoy to do "averot", buying shoes in shabbat is no fun at all, therefor I will never be addicted buyer (?), cooking an egg at Shabbat is not fun either, than why would I become addicted to this avera ?
you can be addicted to camputers, but if you aren't on this forum than you'll be on other forum, maybe you'll watch chaim's videos at Shabbat, that is an avera, did Chaim helped us to do it ? of course not, it's the same case in JTF's forum .
He cant control you not watching the video's (maybe he can by telling people not to), but closing the forum is a controllable option.
He can remove tham befor shabbat and than re-upload tham at sundey .
But that's a lot of work, than if you closing the forum at Shabbat than go untile the end, you can't do a half and think you are clean, that's how it's works, no ?
something is better then nothing.
Not in my opinion, I love the quote that Lulab have in his sign, and that's a good time to use it : "A half truth is a whole lie", which is the same in this case in my opinion .
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the drug abuser is a drugs addicted, therefor the drug abuser will prbobly take the money with no questions and no free will, it's diffrent when it's about the forum .
sin is also an addiction. some averot to one extent others to another. -We have to purify ourselves as much as possible and try to rectify as much as possible. As with drugs the more you sin the more you are addicted to it. (also some are pulled to certain sins becuase of their previous life- and thats what they have to work hard to rectify).
I don't think people actually enjoy to do "averot", buying shoes in shabbat is no fun at all, therefor I will never be addicted buyer (?), cooking an egg at Shabbat is not fun either, than why would I become addicted to this avera ?
you can be addicted to camputers, but if you aren't on this forum than you'll be on other forum, maybe you'll watch chaim's videos at Shabbat, that is an avera, did Chaim helped us to do it ? of course not, it's the same case in JTF's forum .
He cant control you not watching the video's (maybe he can by telling people not to), but closing the forum is a controllable option.
He can remove tham befor shabbat and than re-upload tham at sundey .
But that's a lot of work, than if you closing the forum at Shabbat than go until the end, you can't do a half and think you are clean, that's how it's works, no ?
If you do that you'd lose the comments, the ratings, and the favouroitings of all the videos at the end of each week, somuch for everyone's work on the youtube campaign.
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It doesn't metter, it is helping to do an avera acorrding to Tzvi, therefor it should be removed .
And I don't think it should be removed as the forum shouldn't be closed at Shabbat .
Anyway at the next Shabbat, no Jew will be here, because it's Yom Kippur, that's big deal .
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From my understanding of the Jewish Sabbath, the idea is that it is a day of rest, surely having to do extra work so as to force others to rest defeats the entire point, if someone is a true Jew, surely they will want to keep the Sabbath properly without having to have someone checking up on them by disabling the forum etc.
I say this as an outsider looking in on the Jewish faith, I understand that I don't know much about it, but this appears to be the simple facts of the situation to me.
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no Jew will be here, because it's Yom Kippur, that's big deal .
Shabb-h is just as important as Yom Kippur (actually not 100% sure which is more or less, but these are 2 giants- its hard to see when your in the bottom which building is higher (i mean in an analogy)- the difference is that Shabb-h is much more frequent then Yom Kippur so psychologically one might think that it is less important.
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no Jew will be here, because it's Yom Kippur, that's big deal .
Shabb-h is just as important as Yom Kippur (actually not 100% sure which is more or less, but these are 2 giants- its hard to see when your in the bottom which building is higher (i mean in an analogy)- the difference is that Shabb-h is much more frequent then Yom Kippur so psychologically one might think that it is less important.
OK.
BTW, why you don't write Shabbat but Shabba-t ?
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no Jew will be here, because it's Yom Kippur, that's big deal .
Shabb-h is just as important as Yom Kippur (actually not 100% sure which is more or less, but these are 2 giants- its hard to see when your in the bottom which building is higher (i mean in an analogy)- the difference is that Shabb-h is much more frequent then Yom Kippur so psychologically one might think that it is less important.
OK.
BTW, why you don't write Shabbat but Shabba-t ?
I write this before-
on the topic of Shabbat someone ( Yakov) asked my about Shabbat and why I write a dash, I also remember saying that Shabbah is a Holy name, I forgot where I have learned it, but now I have came across it.- http://www.israel613.com/
SHABBAT IS THE NAME OF THE HOLY ONE BLESSED BE HE
23) "Shabbat is the Name of the Holy One, Blessed be He, as is explained in the holy Zohar, Shemoth 88. It is, therefore, prohibited to pronounce 'it' where we may not utter holy words of Torah, I know some very pious people who exercise caution not to mention the word Shabbat unnecessarily" (B'nei Yissochor, 1:1). 26) "It is stated in the book Ruach Chaim (by Rabbi Chaim Palaggi o.b.m.) ch. 84, that, according to Chesed L'Avraham, who maintains that, according to the Zohar, Shabbat may not be mentioned in an unclean place, one should rather say, "Shabbah" instead of "Shabbat". Without a vow, I will take care to say, "Shabbah" instead of "Shabbat" (Sedey Chemed).
Its allowed but I personally do it differently here so I wont come to do it in other places.
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Give us poor goyim a break. We need our JTF 7 days. :D
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Its a great test for Jews, in trying to have self-control but if JTF lures fellow Jews to violate Shabbat then it is good for the forum to be closed. Though the timing would mean that any Jew in Israel or elsewhere in America may still be able to access the site during shabbat or not be able to after it.
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Its a great test for Jews, in trying to have self-control but if JTF lures fellow Jews to violate Shabbat then it is good for the forum to be closed. Though the timing would mean that any Jew in Israel or elsewhere in America may still be able to access the site during shabbat or not be able to after it.
the majority are from America- east coast, so closing some time before Shabb-t starts will cover allmost everyone except a few exceptions (I can only think of dexter- I think he will show respect and not post when it is Shabb-t in Israel and we specifically and selectivly tell him not to.)
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Its a great test for Jews, in trying to have self-control but if JTF lures fellow Jews to violate Shabbat then it is good for the forum to be closed. Though the timing would mean that any Jew in Israel or elsewhere in America may still be able to access the site during shabbat or not be able to after it.
the majority are from America- east coast, so closing some time before Shabbat starts will cover allmost everyone except a few exceptions (I can only think of dexter- I think he will show respect and not post when it is Shabbat in Israel and we specifically and selectivly tell him not to.)
Ok, thats fine.
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Its a great test for Jews, in trying to have self-control but if JTF lures fellow Jews to violate Shabbat then it is good for the forum to be closed. Though the timing would mean that any Jew in Israel or elsewhere in America may still be able to access the site during shabbat or not be able to after it.
the majority are from America- east coast, so closing some time before Shabbat starts will cover allmost everyone except a few exceptions (I can only think of dexter- I think he will show respect and not post when it is Shabbat in Israel and we specifically and selectivly tell him not to.)
OK, from now on I wil not post here when the Shabbat in Israel is starting until it overs .
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Its a great test for Jews, in trying to have self-control but if JTF lures fellow Jews to violate Shabbat then it is good for the forum to be closed. Though the timing would mean that any Jew in Israel or elsewhere in America may still be able to access the site during shabbat or not be able to after it.
the majority are from America- east coast, so closing some time before Shabbat starts will cover allmost everyone except a few exceptions (I can only think of dexter- I think he will show respect and not post when it is Shabbat in Israel and we specifically and selectivly tell him not to.)
OK, from now on I wil not post here when the Shabbat in Israel is starting until it overs .
Great start. :) . By the way did you see the video "divine Information" from Divineinformation.com ? - remember I linked it before and you said you will see it?- if you did what do you think? - also I dont know hebrew but can you please link the video on the Hebrew forum?
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Its a great test for Jews, in trying to have self-control but if JTF lures fellow Jews to violate Shabbat then it is good for the forum to be closed. Though the timing would mean that any Jew in Israel or elsewhere in America may still be able to access the site during shabbat or not be able to after it.
the majority are from America- east coast, so closing some time before Shabbat starts will cover allmost everyone except a few exceptions (I can only think of dexter- I think he will show respect and not post when it is Shabbat in Israel and we specifically and selectivly tell him not to.)
OK, from now on I wil not post here when the Shabbat in Israel is starting until it overs .
Great start. :) . By the way did you see the video "divine Information" from Divineinformation.com ? - remember I linke dit before and you said you will see it?- if you did what do you think? - also I dont know hebrew but can you please link the video on the Hebrew forum?
Yes I saw 2 parts, I will see the rest soon .
i'm posting it right now .
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Tzvi Ben Roshel -
If so, we also should close the site in Gentile's holidays, don't we ?
no, they dont have a prohibition like the Jews do.
OK, just answere my first post in this topic :
Everyone has the right to do what he wants to do, and if you'll lock the forum it dosn't mean that some people will stop violeting the Shabbat .
YOu know what, Dexter? A Jew can own a car on Shabbat, but what prohibits him from driving anyway even though there is no public transportation allowed (in Israel)?
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Tzvi Ben Roshel -
If so, we also should close the site in Gentile's holidays, don't we ?
no, they dont have a prohibition like the Jews do.
OK, just answere my first post in this topic :
Everyone has the right to do what he wants to do, and if you'll lock the forum it dosn't mean that some people will stop violeting the Shabbat .
YOu know what, Dexter? A Jew can own a car on Shabbat, but what prohibits him from driving anyway even though there is no public transportation allowed (in Israel)?
If he want to not violet the Shabbat, the power of will is unlimited .
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the truth is- the more (reasonable) barriers the better + the message is urgently needed. Im really glad about the discussions for the last several days about this (except the part where some1 started acting childish), I hope it will be the catalyst for opening some people's minds and souls and wake them up to the truth. Also strenthen those who are allready observent and bring each Jew to a higher level then they are at currently.
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Its a great test for Jews, in trying to have self-control but if JTF lures fellow Jews to violate Shabbat then it is good for the forum to be closed. Though the timing would mean that any Jew in Israel or elsewhere in America may still be able to access the site during shabbat or not be able to after it.
the majority are from America- east coast, so closing some time before Shabbat starts will cover allmost everyone except a few exceptions (I can only think of dexter- I think he will show respect and not post when it is Shabbat in Israel and we specifically and selectivly tell him not to.)
OK, from now on I wil not post here when the Shabbat in Israel is starting until it overs .
Great start. :) . By the way did you see the video "divine Information" from Divineinformation.com ? - remember I linked it before and you said you will see it?- if you did what do you think? - also I dont know hebrew but can you please link the video on the Hebrew forum?
I'v posted it :
http://jtf.org/forum_hebrew/index.php?topic=8696.msg62289#new
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Tzvi Ben Roshel -
If so, we also should close the site in Gentile's holidays, don't we ?
no, they dont have a prohibition like the Jews do.
OK, just answere my first post in this topic :
Everyone has the right to do what he wants to do, and if you'll lock the forum it dosn't mean that some people will stop violeting the Shabbat .
YOu know what, Dexter? A Jew can own a car on Shabbat, but what prohibits him from driving anyway even though there is no public transportation allowed (in Israel)?
If he want to not violet the Shabbat, the power of will is unlimited .
so bet it...i think the right thing to do is ask Chaim if it is ok to close the forum on shabbat and give the reasons why you think it should...
Certainly, I will support what Chaim says and I'm leaning on trying not to post on this forum on Shabbat more out of respect of this movement...but at least that's a start...
then again, i don't belong to any other forum..so no biggie to me.
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the truth is- the more (reasonable) barriers the better + the message is urgently needed. Im really glad about the discussions for the last several days about this (except the part where some1 started acting childish), I hope it will be the catalyst for opening some people's minds and souls and wake them up to the truth. Also strenthen those who are allready observent and bring each Jew to a higher level then they are at currently.
nice
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Why do we lock the hebrew forum on shabbat and yamim tovim?
the answer is because the vast majority of our users are israeli jews,
and because they love the forum so much they would visit it and write on it on shabbat,
by keeping the forum open we encouraged those jews to break the keeping of shabbat.
BUT, on the English forum, it's a whole different ball game,
here, the GENTILES are the vast majority and so by locking
the forum on good days and shabbat, we basically deny entry to most of our members
who are not obligated to keep the shabbat like we do.
on the other hand, this IS a jewish based site, so...
I think we'll leave this decision to chaim - maybe jimmy can ask him for his take,
and give us his answer here on the forum...
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OZ is correct, it should be open so all the Gentiles can post.
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Why is it even in question?
If Jews choose to keep shabbat it's their obligation not to violate it by posting. It shouldn't be up to somebody else to shut down the forum.
Like the obligation is to not turn lights on. The power company shouldn't have to turn the electricity off.
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Isn't the definition of "working" up to interpretation...posting isn't necessarily working.
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Isn't the definition of "working" up to interpretation...posting isn't necessarily working.
It's still kindling a fire under Talmudic law because typing on a computer keyboard results in electrical impulses etc.
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Isn't the definition of "working" up to interpretation...posting isn't necessarily working.
It's still kindling a fire under Talmudic law because typing on a computer keyboard results in electrical impulses etc.
It's still the problem that mayority of posters here are not Jews mainly chrisatians; Who are not obliged by Torah to keep Sabaths so rigorusly so the forum shoud be closed on sunday fo. ex. too?; Do ypu propose to turn off the light off on Shabat in entire NYC? There shoud be a Big warning that sabath started to All Jews and that's grave sin to break it; but they shoud keep the micwa without external pressure or coersion. But in the end the Chaim will decide; I'm member of other fora and can use the break. ;)
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No. JTF is mostly made up of righteous gentiles. So, it wouldn't be fair to single them out.
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Why is it even in question?
If Jews choose to keep shabbat it's their obligation not to violate it by posting. It shouldn't be up to somebody else to shut down the forum.
Like the obligation is to not turn lights on. The power company shouldn't have to turn the electricity off.
so rabbinical of you, newman :laugh:
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Why is it even in question?
If Jews choose to keep shabbat it's their obligation not to violate it by posting. It shouldn't be up to somebody else to shut down the forum.
Like the obligation is to not turn lights on. The power company shouldn't have to turn the electricity off.
so rabbinical of you, newman :laugh:
I'll argue that black is white. I'd be good at that Talmudic hairsplitting thing. ;)
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The Sabbath is to be a day of rest, I know. Is an observant Jew allowed to hang out with friends and maybe have a game of hockey, soccer, ect?
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The Sabbath is to be a day of rest, I know. Is an observant Jew allowed to hang out with friends and maybe have a game of hockey, soccer, ect?
I think it's ok.
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The Sabbath is to be a day of rest, I know. Is an observant Jew allowed to hang out with friends and maybe have a game of hockey, soccer, ect?
Its not in the spirit of Shabb-t. If you are observent allready for some time then you shoudnt do it. (also theirs an issue of sweating), but if you are just starting then you should ask your personal Rav and he will tell you whats right according to your level.
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The Sabbath is to be a day of rest, I know. Is an observant Jew allowed to hang out with friends and maybe have a game of hockey, soccer, ect?
I think it's ok.
It depends on your rabbi.