JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ChabadKahanist on July 07, 2019, 09:07:05 AM
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I don't think so because there is too many holes in their story!!!
Why is their Torah which they call Orit in Geez & not in Hebrew?
Why did they have absolutely no knowledge of Hebrew whatsoever until coming to Israel?
Why didn't they have Chanukah & Purim?
Why don't they have Talmud?
Why don't they have Shulchan Aruch,Ben Ish Chai,Rambam or any other halachic works?
Why are there no Jewish sources for their fairy tale of the Queen of Sheba & King Shlomo having a son called Menelik?
If that is their claim it would contradict another claim that they came from Dan because King Shlomo was from Yehuda!!!
Too many holes in their narrative!!!!!!
Any thoughts?
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I don't see how they can be Jews without Hebrew and the Oral Torah.
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Besides Rav Ovadio any other Rabbanim conciser them Jewish?
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Besides Rav Ovadio any other Rabbanim conciser them Jewish?
Rav Goren besides those 2 the majority do not consider them Jews without a giyur
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Sometimes I think they allow them in Israel, so that Self-hating leftist jews can feel good about it.
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The late Rabbi Ovadia Yosef deemed them to be Jews. (Not sure of the proof).
Unfortunately, the secular Israelis have a law that if one is born of a Jewish Grandfather, they can be "jews" and make aliya. So it made them happy to integrate nonWhite Jews into Israeli society.
Some ethiopians are great religious Jews and contribute to society, while others, like the rioters are worse than animals and should be kicked out of the country..has nothing to do with their race or ethnicity.
Just as there are bad ethiopian "Jews" there are plenty of bad ashkenazi and sephardic jews. Don't make this a racial thing...you would be falling into the trap of creating a bigger civil war.
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Unfortunately, the secular Israelis have a law that if one is born of a Jewish Grandfather, they can be "jews" and make aliya.
I wasn't aware that this is becoming so watered down. This is disturbing. :o
And btw, Ethiopian's 'Jews' don't typically have a Jewish Grandfather.
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The late Rabbi Ovadia Yosef deemed them to be Jews. (Not sure of the proof).
Unfortunately, the secular Israelis have a law that if one is born of a Jewish Grandfather, they can be "jews" and make aliya. So it made them happy to integrate nonWhite Jews into Israeli society.
Some ethiopians are great religious Jews and contribute to society, while others, like the rioters are worse than animals and should be kicked out of the country..has nothing to do with their race or ethnicity.
Just as there are bad ethiopian "Jews" there are plenty of bad ashkenazi and sephardic jews. Don't make this a racial thing...you would be falling into the trap of creating a bigger civil war.
I am not making a racial thing at all but Rav Ovadia was a daas yachid as most poskim hold that they do need giyur & without giyur they are not halachically Jews among them Rav Moshe Feinstein & Rav Yosef Shalom Eliyashiv.
Those that did giyur are amongst the finest Jews as are the so called Bnai Menashe from India who likewise must do giyur.
A large number of Russians also must do giyur due to intermarriage unless they have solid proof that their mother is Jewish.
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I am not making a racial thing at all but Rav Ovadia was a daas yachid as most poskim hold that they do need giyur & without giyur they are not halachically Jews among them Rav Moshe Feinstein & Rav Yosef Shalom Eliyashiv.
Those that did giyur are amongst the finest Jews as are the so called Bnai Menashe from India who likewise must do giyur.
A large number of Russians also must do giyur due to intermarriage unless they have solid proof that their mother is Jewish.
I agree this is necessary for the "Lost Tribes" of Jews. I"m sure at some point some American Jews of reform/conservative "Jewish" lineage will need the same in a few generation (if they return to proper Judaism).
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I agree this is necessary for the "Lost Tribes" of Jews. I"m sure at some point some American Jews of reform/conservative "Jewish" lineage will need the same in a few generation (if they return to proper Judaism).
Agreed but Reform may already need it now because of patrilineal descent.
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The late Rabbi Ovadia Yosef deemed them to be Jews. (Not sure of the proof).
Unfortunately, the secular Israelis have a law that if one is born of a Jewish Grandfather, they can be "jews" and make aliya. So it made them happy to integrate nonWhite Jews into Israeli society.
Some ethiopians are great religious Jews and contribute to society, while others, like the rioters are worse than animals and should be kicked out of the country..has nothing to do with their race or ethnicity.
Just as there are bad ethiopian "Jews" there are plenty of bad ashkenazi and sephardic jews. Don't make this a racial thing...you would be falling into the trap of creating a bigger civil war.
I don't think it's fair to pre-judge people based upon skin color.
But lineage is important to all indigenous people, not just to Jews. Elizabeth Warren can't go live on a reservation no matter how much she pretends to be Native American, because she's European.
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Pretty much everyone that came after 1992 is not jewish from birth. I think most have supposedly undergone some sort of "conveyor belt" conversion in the Ethiopia.
Allot of rabbis don't consider that process as valid. I too from a non-religious point of view see this type of migration as problematic.
It's very ungrateful to blame Israel and accuse "white" Israelis of being racist after everything all the resources and the effort that Israel has invested in bringing them in and helping them integrate. And The fact is
allot of them integrate well enough. I don't think the riots reflect the dominant attitude of Ethiopians in Israel.
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"Ethiopian Jews are not Jews. Forget about it. The New York Times gave them smicha as Jews but it’s absolutely nothing at all. Not even half-Jews. It’s sheker v’chazav, a complete fabrication."
Rabbi Avigdor Miller TAPE # E-200 (August 1999)
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"The Ethiopians are not Jews. It's only New York Times propaganda. The Ethiopians are not Jews, so forget about that whole idea. Get it out out of your head. Unless they are מגייר properly, they are not Jews at all."
Rabbi Avigdor Miller TAPE # E-156
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"Let me explain something to you. There are certain things that you have to know are lomdus, and it depends on lamdanim to clarify those things. And there are certain things you have to know that are מציאות, factual matters, and those things depend on people who know the מציאות, the facts.
Ethiopians have no connection with our nation. It's not even the slightest הוה אמינא. There is no safek at all. They weren't originally from the עם ישראל and they never were מגייר, they never converted. They never had any Torah among them and they never had any white Jews among them. After all, the Jews are a white people, you have to know. The Ethiopians are a black people.
And therefore, they are nothing but a group of gentiles who adopted some of our ways, which was prevalent sometimes in the days of old. But they have no connection to us - not even the slightest. And this is not a matter of this talmid chochom saying this or that. Because they don't know. Because when you know the history of the Ethiopians, then you know that the Ethiopians have absolutely no valid tradition at all. And this is what we know from historians who have studied the subject in depth.
It's only lately that the New York Times came out for "Ethiopian Jews." The New York Times gave them s'micha as Jews. But up until recently, all the historians knew that they were not Jews. They were just blacks who adopted some Jewish customs. And therefore, there isn't the slightest doubt about that question.
Now, how great is the error? Maybe they did bigger errors in the State of Israel. It's quite possible. But now they're bringing in blacks from Ethiopia who refuse to even be מגייר. Now, if they're really such sincere people, let them at least go through the גירות. If they lived so long without any Torah, let them be מגייר. No, they refuse to be מגייר! So now what? If they stay the way they are, they will increase and multiply as well. And now they're going to government schools. So now the government schools will have black atheists. That's what's going to be soon. It's not enough that the State is creating Jewish atheists, but now there will be black gentile atheists as well. Oh, that's wonderful!
That's what they're going to have soon. In one generation, you'll have black atheists, black criminals, and you'll have black ghettos and the black problem of Israel. Do they need that on top of all the tzoros they already have?!
And so, it shouldn't be any question in your mind at all. As far as I'm concerned, there's not even the slightest הוה אמינא that the Ethiopians are Jews. Not even the slightest doubt."
Rabbi Avigdor Miller TAPE # 844 (November 1991)
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"Let me explain something to you. There are certain things that you have to know are lomdus, and it depends on lamdanim to clarify those things. And there are certain things you have to know that are מציאות, factual matters, and those things depend on people who know the מציאות, the facts.
Ethiopians have no connection with our nation. It's not even the slightest הוה אמינא. There is no safek at all. They weren't originally from the עם ישראל and they never were מגייר, they never converted. They never had any Torah among them and they never had any white Jews among them. After all, the Jews are a white people, you have to know. The Ethiopians are a black people.
And therefore, they are nothing but a group of gentiles who adopted some of our ways, which was prevalent sometimes in the days of old. But they have no connection to us - not even the slightest. And this is not a matter of this talmid chochom saying this or that. Because they don't know. Because when you know the history of the Ethiopians, then you know that the Ethiopians have absolutely no valid tradition at all. And this is what we know from historians who have studied the subject in depth.
It's only lately that the New York Times came out for "Ethiopian Jews." The New York Times gave them s'micha as Jews. But up until recently, all the historians knew that they were not Jews. They were just blacks who adopted some Jewish customs. And therefore, there isn't the slightest doubt about that question.
Now, how great is the error? Maybe they did bigger errors in the State of Israel. It's quite possible. But now they're bringing in blacks from Ethiopia who refuse to even be מגייר. Now, if they're really such sincere people, let them at least go through the גירות. If they lived so long without any Torah, let them be מגייר. No, they refuse to be מגייר! So now what? If they stay the way they are, they will increase and multiply as well. And now they're going to government schools. So now the government schools will have black atheists. That's what's going to be soon. It's not enough that the State is creating Jewish atheists, but now there will be black gentile atheists as well. Oh, that's wonderful!
That's what they're going to have soon. In one generation, you'll have black atheists, black criminals, and you'll have black ghettos and the black problem of Israel. Do they need that on top of all the tzoros they already have?!
And so, it shouldn't be any question in your mind at all. As far as I'm concerned, there's not even the slightest הוה אמינא that the Ethiopians are Jews. Not even the slightest doubt."
Rabbi Avigdor Miller TAPE # 844 (November 1991)
How do explain Rabbi Ovadia Yosef & Rabbi Shlomo Goren saying that are Jews & from Dan?
I am not buying it because gedolim like the Lubavitcher Rebbe,Rav Moshe Feinstein,Rav Yosef Sholom Eliyashiv,Rav Avigdor Miller & the majority say that they are not Jews & need giyur if they want to be Jews.
Also see what I wrote at the beginning of this thread!!!
There are too many holes in their story for them to be Jews without a conversion!!!!
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How do explain Rabbi Ovadia Yosef & Rabbi Shlomo Goren saying that are Jews & from Dan?
I am not buying it because gedolim like the Lubavitcher Rebbe,Rav Moshe Feinstein,Rav Yosef Sholom Eliyashiv,Rav Avigdor Miller & the majority say that they are not Jews & need giyur if they want to be Jews.
Also see what I wrote at the beginning of this thread!!!
There are too many holes in their story for them to be Jews without a conversion!!!!
Deleted by Lisa
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That's what they're going to have soon. In one generation, you'll have black atheists, black criminals, and you'll have black ghettos and the black problem of Israel. Do they need that on top of all the tzoros they already have?!
We already have this with the smeg ma infested uncircumcised,chazir fressing,Xmas tree bearing Russians
The Russians are just as big of a problem unless they can prove that their mothers are Jewish or they had a proper giyur!!!!
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That's what they're going to have soon. In one generation, you'll have black atheists, black criminals, and you'll have black ghettos and the black problem of Israel. Do they need that on top of all the tzoros they already have?!
We already have this with the smeg ma infested uncircumcised,chazir fressing,Xmas tree bearing Russians
The Russians are just as big of a problem unless they can prove that their mothers are Jewish or they had a proper giyur!!!!
Deleted by Lisa
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Deleted by Lisa
I am not a Christian you putz I am an Orthodox Jew & a former JDL member what did you ever do for Jews?
He most certainly was a gadol
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Deleted by Lisa
You are a Christian Lubavitchers are good & religious Jews!!!
I respect decent Christians but not lowlives like you!!!
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I am not a Christian you putz I am an Orthodox Jew & a former JDL member what did you ever do for Jews?
He most certainly was a gadol
Deleted by Lisa
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Deleted by Lisa
I am not a Mishichist you schmuck I don't hold that the Rebbe is Moshiach you cretin!!!
Not all Lubavitchers hold like that you ignorant putz!!!!
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I am not a Mishichist you schmuck I don't hold that the Rebbe is Moshiach you cretin!!!
Not all Lubavitchers hold like that you ignorant putz!!!!
Deleted by Lisa
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That is not true & be prepared to be banned from this site you Jew hater!!!
This is you last post
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Best of luck in learning the English language you Christian piece of trash.
I speak English very well & I am an Orthodox Jew not a Christian you Jew hating fardorbener!!!!!
Be prepared to no longer post on this great Kahanist site because you have been reported
Bye bye troll!!!!
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Deleted by Lisa
I only believe in Hashem & only Hashem you Jew hating troll.
There was a split you idiot & more than half of Lubavitch rejects the Mishichist nonsense so stop defaming good Jews!!!
Just like not all Breslovers are Na Nachs not all Lubavutchers are Mishichistim!!!!
Best of luck posting your hateful lies elsewhere because you will soon be gone from here!!!!
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Deleted by Lisa
This site http://chassidusunlimited.tripod.com/intro.html proves that I am telling the truth & that you are a hateful lying troll!!
Best of luck peddling your hateful lies elsewhere because you will be gone from here by the end of the day!!!
I guarantee it!!!!
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deleted by Lisa
You are a Jew hating troll & you have been reported by several good Jews & Gentiles for spewing hate & lies.
Be prepared to no longer be on this forum!!!!
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Deleted by Lisa
The Lubavitcher Rebbe was a holy man who started the modern Noahide movement. Without him few people would be Noahides. My Rabbi is Chabad and my teacher is Chabad. How dare you insult such holy men. Reported.
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Deleted by Lisa
I fear it is not within your purview to educate me or to judge me. As an ex-Christian I assure you the Lubavitchers are not Christians. You are not worth my time. JTF is not the place for you. Go play somewhere else.
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Deleted by Lisa
Rav JB Soloveitchik,Rav Moshe Feinstein,Rav Mordedchai Eliyahu,Rav Meir Kahane,Rav Avrhom Pam,The Nitra Rov,The Gerer Rebbe,The Novominisker Rebbe,Rav Hutner as well as many more all held that the Rebbe was a gadol so stop lying & defaming a great man you rosha!!!!
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I fear it is not within your purview to educate me or to judge me. As an ex-Christian I assure you the Lubavitchers are not Christians. You are not worth my time. JTF is not the place for you. Go play somewhere else.
Touche` & well put my erudite Noahide friend!!!!!
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Touche` & well put my erudite Noahide friend!!!!!
Thank you, brother.
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Deleted by Lisa
Stop trolling and spamming
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I am not making a racial thing at all but Rav Ovadia was a daas yachid as most poskim hold that they do need giyur & without giyur they are not halachically Jews among them Rav Moshe Feinstein & Rav Yosef Shalom Eliyashiv.
Those that did giyur are amongst the finest Jews as are the so called Bnai Menashe from India who likewise must do giyur.
A large number of Russians also must do giyur due to intermarriage unless they have solid proof that their mother is Jewish.
Is it known which Ethiopians in Israel did giyur and which did not?
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Is it known which Ethiopians in Israel did giyur and which did not?
The Rabbanut as well as the interior ministry would have a record of it
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Stop trolling and spamming
Please report this troll to the administrators I have & so have a few others.
The more people that report him the quicker he'll be banned from posting here
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I banned that scroll and deleted his abusive posts.
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I banned that scroll and deleted his abusive posts.
Thanks he was attacking everybody for no rhyme or reason & has no place here with decent human beings.
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The Rabbanut as well as the interior ministry would have a record of it
I wonder what the percentages are, and I wonder if there's a correlation with the populations recently rioting
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I wonder what the percentages are, and I wonder if there's a correlation with the populations recently rioting
This I have no idea
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I thought this idiot was banned. I'm going to sleep. I hope I won't see him when I wake up.
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I thought this idiot was banned. I'm going to sleep. I hope I won't see him when I wake up.
Complain to the administrators again
I just did that
Hopefully by the morning this creep will be gone!!!
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I thought I already banned him. Very weird. So I banned him again. All I can say is that it's awkward to do this kind of thing on my Android phone with my large hands and all.
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I thought I already banned him. Very weird. So I banned him again. All I can say is that it's awkward to do this kind of thing on my Android phone with my large hands and all.
Thanks again he was just plain annoying to all
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Thanks Lisa.
There is not a single person who is holy and knowledgeable enough to challenge the Rebbe. This may be a good time to share Rabbi Schochet's defense of Chabad:
https://www.amazon.com/review/RHWERA9Z99NYO
The Professor, the Messiah, and the Scandal of Calumnies
By J. Immanuel Schochet
Prof. David Berger's recent book. "The Rebbe, the Messiah and the Scandal of Orthodox Indifference," is the subject of heated controversy. It attacks the Chabad-Lubavitch community, charging it with false messianism, adopting Christian doctrines, heresy and idolatry.
Unfortunately, professional scrupulosity and a modicum of evidence one expects from an academic, is missing. For example: on the one hand, Dr. Berger admits that "statistical precision [about the Chabad community] is elusive, dependent partly on the reading of minds." Yet he insists repeatedly that "large segments," a "substantial majority" and "mainstream Lubavitch" are guilty of his charges. In turn, the official leadership of Chabad, which he recognizes to be decidely anti-messianist, is downplayed to "quite minimal influence on the large majority of Lubavitch hasidim." Is Dr. Berger really able to read minds?
Dr. Berger rejects pronouncements by two universally respected halachic authorities which support Lubavitch and condemn the attacks against it. Rabbis Pinchas Hirshprung and Aaron Soloveichik regard Lubavitch messianism as one side of a legitimate dispute. According to Dr. Berger, their statements were issued under duress, when they were infirm. In effect he accuses them of violating the Biblical prohibition not to be afraid of anyone to validate what he deems to be outright heresy. Surely, then, he must dismiss anything else they said.
The book is a chronicle of Dr. Berger's quixotic battle against Lubavitch over many years. He complains bitterly that his campaign is ignored by the bulk of orthodox Jewry. The only support he received was from Satmar, Rabbis Chaim Keller of Chicago and Yaakov S. Weinberg of Baltimore, disciples of Rabbi Eliezer Schach of Israel, and "distinguished individuals" who remain anonymous. Except for Satmar, he fails to mention that these rabbis displayed a consistent hostility toward hasidism in general, and Chabad in particular, for decades before messianism became an issue. Their offensive statements, with charges of heresy and idolatry, go back at least to the 1950's, a part of their obsession to resuscitate the historical feud between mitnagdim and hasidim of more than two centuries ago.
Dr. Berger relates that "heads of non-hasidic yeshivas" shrugged off much of his material "on the grounds that hasidism in general is idolatry," adding that he does not believe that this was meant literally. If he were to examine the accessible records he will have to change his mind. A major concern of Dr. Berger is that the messianists' assumption that the resurrected Lubavitcher Rebbe may yet be the Messiah, "erases one of the defining characteristics of Judaism in a Christian world." He cites missionaries who already utilize this assumption to justify their belief in a "second coming." In other words, he defines Judaism by its differences from Christianity. One would think that Judaism is defined by its own tradition, predating Christianity by more than a millennium. Moreover, missionaries keep reprinting books citing numerous passages from Talmud, Midrash, Zohar, Jewish Bible-commentaries and so forth, to support their claims. Are we now to delete these passages from our tradition?
Dr. Berger spurns the rabbinic proof-texts cited by the messianists as a "rejected minority position" which in the face of "overwhelming counter-opinions," have no standing in Jewish law. Thus he violates a fundamental rule in halachic methodology: in disputes that do not affect actual practice one cannot say who is right or wrong! His reliance on arguments in polemical debates is curious. The Talmud clearly dismisses these as "broken reeds" and "straw", polemical tactics to rebuff opponents. More curious is his juggling-act. Originally he objected to the very possibility of a resurrected Rebbe-Messiah. Facing solid counter-views, he invents something new. Now he claims that the messianists affirm that the Rebbe was already the actual Messiah in his lifetime, started the redemptive process, and will return to finish the job, analogous to Christian theology. Why is it that no one ever heard of that before reading the book? No Lubavitcher can possibly say that. It stands in flagrant contradiction to the Rebbe's explicit statements that the final word in these matters is a ruling by Maimonides: the reality of the Messiah is established exclusively by his fulfilling the actual prophecies of the redemption when he appears.
To be sure, the messianist faction has a handful of extremists who uttered obscene and heretical statements. This lunatic fringe has been excommunicated from all camps. For Dr. Berger to build a case on them, has as much meaning as building on the lunatic fringe of the mitnagdim which he condones with a cavalier "I do not believe that they meant it literally."
Dr. Berger worries that the numerous Lubavitchers holding influential positions as chief-rabbis, rabbis, and other religious functionaries throughout the world, threaten the future of Judaism. He wants them dismissed. Question: were these people appointed because they are Lubavitchers or because of their qualifications, including requisite scholarship? Is it conceivable that they know as much about Jewish law, about what is acceptable and what is not, as their antagonists?
Yet Dr. Berger and his bedfellows arrogate to themselves the authority to be both the prosecutors and judges over them. The book's repetitiveness is annoying. Its numerous inaccuracies and crude distortions (as of an article I wrote) are irritating. Its ignorant insults, such as Lubavitch constructing menorahs "of an atypical sort because every new religion needs a symbol" when that is the form prescribed by Maimonides, reveal the author's motivation.
The author notes that even some of his friends regard his efforts as "symptoms of a personal idiosyncrasy" eliciting "musings about unhealthy obsessions." He should consider this more seriously.
____________________________
Rabbi Schochet is a Professor of Philosophy in Toronto, Canada, and author of numerous books on Jewish Thought and Mysticism.
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I think this Yair Bachrach creature is back under just plain Yair
We will see if starts his nonsense again
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I think this Yair Bachrach creature is back under just plain Yair
We will see if starts his nonsense again
He can't win. We will report him again. And HaShem will punish him for his disgusting slander against the Rebbe and Chabad.
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He can't win. We will report him again. And HaShem will punish him for his disgusting slander against the Rebbe and Chabad.
Indeed.
It wasn't just me & you it was a few others that reported him.
But if he tries again we will report him again.