JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: raiseyourfist on October 16, 2007, 11:02:20 AM
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should Israel end exportation/importation to Nazi Germany and not have anything to do with that Nazi country...
Germany still treat Israel like garbage when they have so much to make up for and still seek want to seek jewish homeland collapse...
Because this is the case i, in a Kahanist Israel would want nothing to do with that country...
WHAT DOES EVERYONE ELSE THINK ON THE MATTER
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I'm not sure what the average German thinks, underneith the guise of stability which the media shows. I'd have to see hard evidence (opposition to Israel alone isn't enough evidence) to be convinced that they are secretly still nazis, but I'm open to believing it if it can be proven.
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How much does Israel depend on imports from other countries?
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Germany today has hate laws where if you deny the holocaust, you go to jail. Clearly the regimes are quite different, the quesiton is what the average German thinks, as its clear the politicians have some differences. I'm sure bitter Germans exist, but right now they aren't controlling the Government. It's left-wing liberals (another threat) who are controlling it.
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No they have Europeans that hate Jews much more then Germans
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While I disagree with the two state solution, indeed you have failed to prove that what you are saying motivates it is the true motive for it. Many people, incorrectly, view Israel as being a colonial and oppressive state. I think they are wrong. But such viewpoints are out there, as you say said, in all of Europe.
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The "Two States Solution" is in fact "one Pali State final solution to the Jewish Problem".
Remember that Palis have already their Jordan State. Two States to the West of Jordan would mean "dividing" Jerusalem. The original Old City would be for the terrorists, who'll soon claim that, as they have the centre of the world, then ALL the world is theirs.
Westernners prefer that "solution" because they are bitter and envious that Israel is the beggining of human civilization. They prefer to die by terror than accepting that Jews still exist.
But why blaming Germany? Even Israelis talk about a Pali State!!!
Anti-Zionism is much higher in any other European country than in Germany.
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While some "nazis" are against Israel, unfortunately, many of the anti-zionists today are people who (I don't agree with this) view Israel as a Jewish Nazi state. They believe Israel has became a militant and nationalistic state which harms its minority populations, and compare it to nazi Germany. It's easy to say that Germans of today are equal to the past, but I simply think they swithched from one bad ideology (nazism) to another bad ideology (liberalism).
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Boycott Croatia then they were much worse then Nazis
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You know many of the U.S. soldiers and generals during ww2 were German American? Germans are the biggest ethnic group in America.
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Yes, Germans have surpassed Anglo-Saxons in America.
It should be pointed out that one can oppose German politics without labeling them nazis, which to an extent trivializes the events of the past. I'd advocate using the nazi label very cautiously, or it will cease to mean anything at all.
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Yes, Germans have surpassed Anglo-Saxons in America.
It should be pointed out that one can oppose German politics without labeling them nazis, which to an extent trivializes the events of the past. I'd advocate using the nazi label very cautiously, or it will cease to mean anything at all.
True many Israel haters are leftists
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I regretfully disagree with Chaim about the Germans of today versus the Nazis.
However, I understand from what he has said about them that it is necessary to be vigilant..
but that goes for most nutty people and nations.
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I'm a bit confused, Germany gave Israel 2 Dolphin subs for free paid from German tax payers. Doesn't Germany also pay state of Israel for holocaust as well? At least they seem to be trying to make things right although no amount of money will restore Jewish lives that were lost. The German people today are not the same as the ones in the past.
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Two States to the West of Jordan would mean "dividing" Jerusalem.
Havent you heard, the pals are going for broke, they want ALL of Jerusalem now.
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I think this insane comparing of Nazi-terror and Israels struggle against terrorism causes from the holocaust. A group of Germans blame the Jews for doing the same cruel crimes like the Nazis did, to feel better. This is extreme evil. Today already live some Jews who had survived the holocaust. For this behaviour are no excuses.
Additional they are supporting muslime propaganda. Some real Nazis are traveling to Teheran frequently. In the oppinion of this left wing- nazi mix is the western civilisation not to be worth a tinker's cuss. They hate christianity, judaism and the free economy and they freely chum up to and submit under islam.
In my oppinion and i am a German, the world will be better without these traitorous groups. They have no sense for reality. On every day, the muslimes raping, killing and showing us their disrespect. The truth is, that muslimes are lazy people. They live from social care and they are responsible for over the half of all serious crimes. Muslimes are responsible for 70 percent of all rapes in Germany.
Sometimes I can't believe it. Why are taking this idiots the side of the murdermuslimes. What is so different in the fact, that islam is not peace and that the muslimes are in Israel no victims.
Even if muslimes say openly what they want, this dhimmis will answer you
I. You have not understand the muslime correctly
II. Not all muslimes are like this
They haven't understand anything :(
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This left wing groups in Germany don't support basic human rights
A lot of people from the whole islamic world came to us, to live free. (We have a few on our website in Germany) And than this real refugees must discover, that the murdermuslime mob continues his cruel acts in Germany, where he has begun it in the islamic countries. The left wing dhimmis fighting against the deportation of this enemies of human rights. This is disgusting.
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This left wing groups in Germany don't support basic human rights
A lot of people from the whole islamic world came to us, to live free. (We have a few on our website in Germany) And than this real refugees must discover, that the murdermuslime mob continues his cruel acts in Germany, where he has begun it in the islamic countries. The left wing dhimmis fighting against the deportation of this enemies of human rights. This is disgusting.
Its no different here.
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Isnt' the German antifa, the extreme left wing anti-fascists pro-Israel? I have read that they hate their own country so much that they align themselves with Israel and even America based on the recent history of their country.
Germany today isn't different than any other European country, what makes it hard for Jews however is the fact that the Germans have a moral obligation to ensure that Israel survives the onslaught of muslim terror, which it has not done so. This leads Jews such as myself to believe that the Germans are still nazis that are letting the arabs do their work for them.
Nearly every European country deserves to be boycotted even though it is impractical to do so. For example, the leftwing so called humanist scandinavian countries that gave us the Oslo "peace plan", the British for having the most anti-Israel media in the world and their attempts at destroying the creation of a viable Jewish state during the mandate period, the Belgians/Dutch/French/Spanish for being the extreme muslim loving dhimmis that they are, the eastern europeans who have and always will be anti-semites and the Republic of Ireland, the most pro-PLO non-muslim country on earth whose population have formed a kind of kinship with the PLO butchers based on their own so called experiences of "oppression" at the hands of the British. The only Europeans that have any sort of sympathy for the Israelis are the Northern Irish Protestants and the Serbs (and even they are small in number).
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Isnt' the German antifa, the extreme left wing anti-fascists pro-Israel? I have read that they hate their own country so much that they align themselves with Israel and even America based on the recent history of their country.
Germany today isn't different than any other European country, what makes it hard for Jews however is the fact that the Germans have a moral obligation to ensure that Israel survives the onslaught of muslim terror, which it has not done so. This leads Jews such as myself to believe that the Germans are still nazis that are letting the arabs do their work for them.
Nearly every European country deserves to be boycotted even though it is impractical to do so. For example, the leftwing so called humanist scandinavian countries that gave us the Oslo "peace plan", the British for having the most anti-Israel media in the world and their attempts at destroying the creation of a viable Jewish state during the mandate period, the Belgians/Dutch/French/Spanish for being the extreme muslim loving dhimmis that they are, the eastern europeans who have and always will be anti-semites and the Republic of Ireland, the most pro-PLO non-muslim country on earth whose population have formed a kind of kinship with the PLO butchers based on their own so called experiences of "oppression" at the hands of the British. The only Europeans that have any sort of sympathy for the Israelis are the Northern Irish Protestants and the Serbs (and even they are small in number).
You are right. There is a group on the left called Anti-Germans. They call themselve "left-wing". They are against German nationalism and for the power of the USA which brings order. They are for free market economy. One speaker of them is Justus Wertmüller. He likes Israel, the USA and in his oppinion is somebody who criticizes capitalism only right, when he want to perfect capitalism. He said all other ways lead to death and powerty, like i do. He thinks the civically society is the best society we ever have had in German history. In his oppinion is our western civilisation the only civilisation, that ever existed. I think he is a atheist, like all members of this small group. When i would be no christian i would join them instantly. Justus Wertmüller calls himself sometimes a communist, but he is not, like his fellows.
(http://www.redaktion-bahamas.org/hefte/titel53.jpg)
The group called Bahamas. They have only a small group of fellows, but i think they belong to the smartest authors in Germany.
This is their website:
http://www.redaktion-bahamas.org/ (http://www.redaktion-bahamas.org/)
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Thanks for the information Goldfasan. I don't understand german so I have no idea of the content of that website, I might put it through babelfish later on when I get home even though some of the translations are a bit dodgy.
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Thanks for the information Goldfasan. I don't understand german so I have no idea of the content of that website, I might put it through babelfish later on when I get home even though some of the translations are a bit dodgy.
Here you can read about this group in Haaretz. The author of this article called "Letter from Berlin: The anti-anti-Zionists" is Benjamin Weinthal
Call of the jungle
The magazine Bahamas is the leading publication of the hardcore pro-Israel, Anti-German communist movement, whose members advocate unconditional solidarity with Israel. Its founders chose the name Bahamas in 1992 as a sort of an ironic rejoinder to the Communist Alliance in Hamburg, whose majority faction urged the Anti-Germans to immigrate to the Atlantic island nation.
Karl Nele, a co-founder of the publication, said the development of Israel solidarity was a response to the German left's "strong support for the [second] intifida" and "an anti-Zionist consensus formed from the political left to the political right" that is deeply anchored in German society. The Holocaust also informs Bahamas' militant defense of Israel as "a place of refuge for Jews."
Bahamas carved out new territory on the German left in explicitly supporting the U.S.-led wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. In a 2003 conference, the magazine's co-founder Justus Wertmueller said that the removal of a "fascistic regime with strong National Socialistic features" represents "liberation for the population." The national security of Israel was also an overriding rationale for Bahamas' support of the Iraq war.
Wertmueller, whose remarks were reprinted in the magazine, went on to suggest that "the problem is still that German and Islamic resentments are identical: anti-Western, anti-liberal, anti-Semitic. German-Islamic friendship stems from the fact that the Germans recognize themselves in political Islam, because it is fascist and at the same time gives the impression of being an indigenous culture."
In contrast to the unqualified pro-war position of Bahamas, over at Konkret, Gremliza editorialized a month before the start of the allied invasion that "I would have no objections if it could be guaranteed that Saddam Hussein's regime could be removed and replaced by a humane one, without the collateral deaths of fifty or a hundred thousand or more Iraqis and without unleashing other monsters elsewhere." While the overwhelming majority of the German left remained painfully silent about the repressive Ba'ath regime, the anti-Germans highlighted Saddam?s crimes.
Stephan Grigat, an Anti-German communist political theorist who teaches at the University of Vienna, argues that the movement should be understood as a critique of an ideology that first arose in Germany but which, he warned, could still emerge in other nations. The "German" aspect in being Anti-German is not, he says, "a matter of a hereditary national character, but a political-economic constellation that favors extermination ... This is not about a special mentality, but a specific form of capitalist socialization" that, he argues, 70 years ago "led to the Shoah [the Holocaust]. And this relationship still exists."
This helps to explain why the anti-Germans prioritize Israel as the nation - and Diaspora Jews as the people - most vulnerable, even today, to extermination, and therefore organize demonstrations to support Israel's right to self-defense.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=890853 (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=890853)
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Most of the anti Israel power in Germany is not from the Nazis but from the left wing.Yes they have skinheads and East Germany[i'm calling it East directional wise] Neo nazi group that gets about 7% sometimes but the real trouble is leftists who do have power
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No!
You know, if you were to go to Germany, and poll atleast 50% of the populace, and find that most Germans are anti-Jewish, then YES, i will agree!
I want hard proof that the Germans and the majority are anti-Jewish, otherwise...No, no and no.
You say the germans invest in arabs, well...if your using that argument, then you are saying americans are anti-Jewish, because the americans invest waaaaay more money on the arabs! So thats a bad argument.
If you want to pick on nations, pick on the Russians...
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Always on it Boere! O0
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YES RUSSIANS HELP HELP THE MOSLEMS THE MOST
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I don't like gemans neither I don't like their policy of domination of Europe; but it's not nazi but german one since times of Charlemagne, Frederick the Barbarossa; Friderick the Great and Bismarck; you can't call them all nazis too. BTW neonazi NDP got 7% in eastern lands but potcommunist SED got from 15% to 20%; Thanks G-d fascism-nazism was completly military crashed and its crimes revealed and punished you can't say it abot marxism-communism with all its deadly mutations: Leninism, Trotskism, Stalinism; Maoism; neo marxism aka PC which rules over USA, Canada, EU, and Israel.
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No!
You know, if you were to go to Germany, and poll atleast 50% of the populace, and find that most Germans are anti-Jewish, then YES, i will agree!
I want hard proof that the Germans and the majority are anti-Jewish, otherwise...No, no and no.
You say the germans invest in arabs, well...if your using that argument, then you are saying americans are anti-Jewish, because the americans invest waaaaay more money on the arabs! So thats a bad argument.
If you want to pick on nations, pick on the Russians...
I think your missing the point...
BOER THE POINT THAT I AM TRYING TO MAKE IS THAT PEOPLE SAY GERMANY HAS CHANGED FOR THE BETTER AND ARE PRO ISRAEL BECAUSE THEY GIVE POST-HOLOCAUST PEOPLE MONEY.... TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS THAT THEY WERE FORCED TO DO THAT FOR POLITICAL RAMIFICATIONS UNDER THE MARSHALL PLAN...
it may be also interesting to note that while Russia and America invest large sums of money in the Arabs... they dont have the viscous anti-semetic history that the Germans have... thus the Germans have a lot to make up for and are required to help prevent Israel's destruction from taking flight
HAS GERMANY ADEQUATELY MADE UP FOR THE PAIN AND SUFFERING TOWARDS JEWS/./// ?
under a Kahanist Israel i hope we have nothing to do with that Nazi country..
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Russia does'nt have anti Jewish history :o they had pogroms and what about Stalin
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Did they exterminate the jews in Russia on the same scale that Germany did...
Russia had periods where they were very hostile towards the jews but so did all of Europe...
WHO KILLED 6 MILLION JEWS IN THE MOST BRUTAL FASHION IMAGINABLE
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ALL real Nazis are dead.There will always be those attracted to strength and the real nazi s had that for sure!
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Did they exterminate the jews in Russia on the same scale that Germany did...
Russia had periods where they were very hostile towards the jews but so did all of Europe...
WHO KILLED 6 MILLION JEWS IN THE MOST BRUTAL FASHION IMAGINABLE
In the pogroms they did'nt have modern means
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If not for Stalin the sick.,The Russians would have been Nazis.Or at least JR members.LOL ;)
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I can understand that Jews want the Germans to pay.
But lets analyze this, but before we can do that, lets look at your answeer to my earlier post.
The Russians persecuted Jews allright!! Hell, they even planned to drown SIX MILLION JEWS in the BLACK SEA !!!
Russia had the worst anti-Jewish record for europe/asia up until the NAZI's!
So anyway, back to the first answer.
Which nations has EVER willingly paid reparations?
Did the British pay reparations to the Boers after they're women and children were starved to death in concentration camps!? NO.
Did the Australian whites pay reparations willingly to the Aboriginals after genocide attemps were carried out against them? NO!
I could go on and on.
DID THE RUSSIANS PAY REPARATIONS TO THE JEWS AFTER THEIRE POGROMS, OPRESIONS AND ATTEMPTED GENOCIDES? NO!!
That's just life. And when nations do in fact pay reparations, one risks a LOT e.g Versailles and WW2 !
And nce again, the NAZI's did NOT have majority vote! Which means that less than %20 actually supported the NAZI's and their policies...meaning that the Germans are NOT Evil!
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Stalin had plans to exterminate Russian Jewry and the Russians historically have been extreme anti-semites, they invented the protocols of the elders of zion and all those fake talmudic quotes that you see floating around the internet. They still are anti-semites to the core. I believe that they are more anti-semitic than the germans today, however, having said that, the fact that anti-semitism exists AT ALL in germany today is saddening.
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This is true Russians are the worst anti jewish
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raiseyourfist, don't believe for a second that the russians are fond of the Jews, they have historically been some of the most vicious anti-semites in history and today believe it or not harbour a massive amount of neo-nazi groups. The russians glorifying nazism, that is how much they hate the Jews.
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I'm sorry Boeregeneraal but the germans were willing and able practioners of the national socialist religion and carried out their tasks of eliminating Jewry with efficiency and without question. Just because other reparations haven't been made to various persecuted groups doesn't mean that they shouldn't be made.
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Don't get me wrong here, im NOT saying reparations should not be made!
All im saying, is that the fact that the Germans are willling to pay these reparations says a lot.
ALSO, remember, the Germans did undertake the task of carrying out the holocaust, unfortunantly. But remember one thing, they were FORCED to undertake these tasks.
Lets look at the Pogroms, the Government did not undertake these acts, but the Russian people themselves. POPULAR MOVEMENT = Pogroms.
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Don't get me wrong here, im NOT saying reparations should not be made!
All im saying, is that the fact that the Germans are willling to pay these reparations says a lot.
ALSO, remember, the Germans did undertake the task of carrying out the holocaust, unfortunantly. But remember one thing, they were FORCED to undertake these tasks.
Lets look at the Pogroms, the Government did not undertake these acts, but the Russian people themselves. POPULAR MOVEMENT = Pogroms.
Who forced Germans to vote 32% for nazis in 1933? who invaded Poland in 1939? who was suporting the total war since 1943? who was wilingly fighting for their FUHRER until 1945? not Eskimos; not some nazis from Mars but German Volk; 8 milions of germans in NSDAP in 1944; 3/4 of male population fighting in Wermacht; and they payed the reperations becouse they started and lost the war I can't call it woluntary payment.
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The Germans were just better at the task at hand!Smarter ,more intellectuals.Russians are weaker and thus could not perform when the time was right.Both hate Jews! >:(
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Don't get me wrong here, im NOT saying reparations should not be made!
All im saying, is that the fact that the Germans are willling to pay these reparations says a lot.
ALSO, remember, the Germans did undertake the task of carrying out the holocaust, unfortunantly. But remember one thing, they were FORCED to undertake these tasks.
Lets look at the Pogroms, the Government did not undertake these acts, but the Russian people themselves. POPULAR MOVEMENT = Pogroms.
Who forced Germans to vote 32% for nazis in 1933? who invaded Poland in 1939? who was suporting the total war since 1943? who was wilingly fighting for their FUHRER until 1945? not Eskimos; not some nazis from Mars but German Volk; 8 milions of germans in NSDAP in 1944; 3/4 of male population fighting in Wermacht; and they payed the reperations becouse they started and lost the war I can't call it woluntary payment.
The main reparation issues of the last years were two:
I. German companies have asked the Nazis for workers. The Nazis have taken this workers from the eastern Europe countries and from the KZ's. This Jews and Gentiles, which survived the hard work, were never be paid. This so called "slave labourer" wanted now their salery for their work from the German Companies, which used them.
I think they have all rights to claim for this.
More informations, you can read on the website of the slave labour foundation:
http://www.stiftung-evz.de/eng/payments_to_former_forced_labourers/ (http://www.stiftung-evz.de/eng/payments_to_former_forced_labourers/)
II. Valuable Pictures and Books of Jewish citizen were robbed or blackmailed by the nazis. Now there are new laws and great museums have to send this pictures and books back to the jewish families. But some leaders of museums make a lot of trouble, because of this pictures, because, they think that this art belongs to their museum and general public.
I think the art belongs to the families of the originally owners. We have free market economy and not (national-)socialism.
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Hitler took control of Germany un-democratically. The Nazi's had about %22 support. When the Nazi's came to power, the German men were conscripted. Not to forget, that they had been brainwashed into fighting for fuhrer and fatherland.
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Why not discuss the evil moslem nazis
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Sure lets!
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The moslems always talk about refuges what about Jewish refuges from moslem countrys many had large farms the moslemsnever want to discuss this
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Mord ,What could you possibly expect?Our enemies are barely apt to use words to their advantage.Its the only thing they can barely control except the killing device on their chest.Suicide aka homicide bombers...
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This is true >:(
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Yes .they are unworthy advisories. ;)
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Germany today has hate laws where if you deny the holocaust, you go to jail. Clearly the regimes are quite different, the quesiton is what the average German thinks, as its clear the politicians have some differences. I'm sure bitter Germans exist, but right now they aren't controlling the Government. It's left-wing liberals (another threat) who are controlling it.
I speak to two Christian Germans that are very pro-Israel and hate Muslims. But most Germans today are socialist hippies, not Nazis. They have no beliefs from what I see. I could be wrong..
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Thats what i was saying today Germany has 2 problems leftsts and moslems
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They are a strong people but as atypical whites they have been shamed into liberals instead of just saying "we're sorry and ending it there."
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The Russians had an anti-Jewish history before communism.
During Communism, the regime rejected racism against Jews (and had many Jewish leaders), but was opposed to the Jewish religion and Zionism.
Stalin purged many Jews, however, he purged them not for being Jewish, but for other reasons. He also kept some Jews in his regime. He also purged many people who weren't Jewish. I think the term radical marxist would describe Stalin, more than anti-semite.
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Heya Wayne, glad to see your active in the forums my friend :) ;)
btw. Love your avatar ;)
You take care now brother, and G-D Bless
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Always ,you too brother!Wish we still had our own but ,we all must as they say.Cooperate.you loved Israel before you got here I wish they all knew. O0