Author Topic: Jewish date-change line  (Read 3634 times)

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Offline Raulmarrio2000

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Jewish date-change line
« on: February 07, 2008, 11:18:30 PM »
Where do Jewish Shabat and other dates or Feast start first. Modern calendar use the date-change line which is, by convention, 180 degres from Greenwich, but I assume that, being the Jewish calendar much older than the establishing of the official date-change line, the Hebrew calendar must have another way to determine the change of date and day of the week. Anyone knows the answer?

Offline Raulmarrio2000

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Re: Jewish date-change line
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2008, 09:29:44 PM »
Nobody knows the answer here?

Offline Raulmarrio2000

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Re: Jewish date-change line
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2008, 11:55:24 PM »
Thank you Yaakov. Interesting articles. I had planned to vist Antartica soemtime, but never decided to travel for that reason. Close to the Poles, hours change by just walking a few miles. And besides, some days are 24 hours day or night. As I was planning to convert and kept all but one rules of Shabat (since a Goy and even a would be convert MUST NEVER do a full Shabat), it would be a problem there to keep Shabbos, light the candles and so on. Besides I understood it might be a sin to cross a date change line.

Offline Raulmarrio2000

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Re: Jewish date-change line
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2008, 12:23:29 AM »
Generally I took the keys with me when leaving the house. But since there is always a possiblity of forgetting or not needing to go to the street, when I hadn't left the house before going to bed on Friday night, I made sure of switching an electric light on/off. On Yom Tov, I always switched a light, since taking the keys does not violate Yom Tov.
I trusted the Ravs on that, even though my interpretation is that taking the keys may be not a real violation, since the intention is to keep the keys with me, not exactly to take them to a certain place. Besides, even following the sages' opinion, it's not always agreed that taking a key along the street is really a violation: If someone, has the keys hanging from his neck (or any similar way), then they would count as jewels!!!!

Offline Raulmarrio2000

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Re: Jewish date-change line
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2008, 01:25:43 AM »
Taking the keys in your pocket IS a violation according to the sages. (Remember that you are a Jew and must KEEP Shabat, while I'm a Goy and it's a mitzvah for me to VIOLATE it). But if you live in an Eruv.... Anyway Eruv is generally used to allow some transport only in emergencies.
Why is there an eruv where you live? What kind of Eruv? In fact there are three kinds of Eruvim:
1- Eruv Tavshilim (to allow to cook on Yom Tov if it's Erev Shabat)
2- Eruv of limits ( To go outside the cities, or more than 2000 amot from your place in case you are in the country)
3- Eruv Chatzerot ( To allow to take things to your Jewish neighbours's house and back- as long as you don't pass through a totally or partially Goyshe owned place, or a place owned by a Jew who does not accept that Eruv-). That Eruv is sometimes used in Israel also to allow you to take something to the street in an emergency, since the street can be considered the Jewish community's home. But in America...... why is there such an Eruv?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2008, 01:32:48 AM by Raulmarrio2000 »

Offline Raulmarrio2000

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Re: Jewish date-change line
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2008, 02:20:29 AM »
I am reading that the prohibition against taking an object to the street, in case that street is less than 800 meters wide, is only a rabbinical prohibition. So, does it mean that when I was aiming to convert and took the keys along the streets here, I didn't violate Shabat according to the Torah? Can it be considered that I kept Shabat while being a goy? Can the Rav here clarify please?

Offline Lubab

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Re: Jewish date-change line
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2008, 02:37:59 AM »
I am reading that the prohibition against taking an object to the street, in case that street is less than 800 meters wide, is only a rabbinical prohibition. So, does it mean that when I was aiming to convert and took the keys along the streets here, I didn't violate Shabat according to the Torah? Can it be considered that I kept Shabat while being a goy? Can the Rav here clarify please?

It's not enough just to do one prohibition and then otherwise keep Sabbath like a Jew. You should just be working like it's a regular day.
And if you want to commemorate shabbos you can do so in your own way, but not from refraining from work as a Jew does.

It is true, however, that in most cases your carrying would only be a Rabbinic prohibition.

But don't worry about what you did in the past. You didn't know. But until you are Jewish you should not be even doing things that resemble what a Jew would do on Shabbos.

"It is not upon you to finish the work, nor are you free to desist from it." Rabbi Tarfon, Pirkei Avot.

Offline Raulmarrio2000

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Re: Jewish date-change line
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2008, 02:49:45 AM »
In fact I don't do anything like a Jew now. Since March 7th 2004, when I decided to remain a Noahide, I just work as any other day on Saturdays. I kept nearly all rules before, because my Rav said that I needed to get used for when I converted. He said carrying the keys was enogh violation. But surely he didn't realize that streets here are not so wide. So, can a Rabbinic violation be enough not to be considered a full Shabbos? A full Shabbos is dangerous for a Gentile's soul!!!!!!

Offline Lubab

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Re: Jewish date-change line
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2008, 11:50:00 AM »
In fact I don't do anything like a Jew now. Since March 7th 2004, when I decided to remain a Noahide, I just work as any other day on Saturdays. I kept nearly all rules before, because my Rav said that I needed to get used for when I converted. He said carrying the keys was enogh violation. But surely he didn't realize that streets here are not so wide. So, can a Rabbinic violation be enough not to be considered a full Shabbos? A full Shabbos is dangerous for a Gentile's soul!!!!!!

Regret. Resolve not to do it in the future. And move on. Teshuva trancends the laws of the Torah, so don't worry about it. :)
"It is not upon you to finish the work, nor are you free to desist from it." Rabbi Tarfon, Pirkei Avot.