Author Topic: Dr. Baruch Goldstein  (Read 15058 times)

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newman

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Re: Dr. Baruch Goldstein
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2007, 12:57:09 PM »
Oy Gevalt, Dexter!  Judaism isn't just a "belief."  It also has nothing to do with where you live.

Now, onto the real subject, Dr. Goldstein ZT"L, HY"D, he was not suicidal, and he saved countless Jewish lives.  A Jewish hero in the truest sense.
Govalt  :::D

Judaism is a belief, religion, what ever you would like to call it. I just said that a "Jew" is a Jew by nationality, Religion or both.

"Jews" are a people, an ethnicity and a nation. But NOT a nationality. There's a subtle difference. Religion is the cornerstone of that peoplehood, but a Jew is still a Jew even with NO religion or a false religion.

For the 4th time:

"A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversion to Judaism.


It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do. A person born to non-Jewish parents who has not undergone the formal process of conversion but who believes everything that Orthodox Jews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism is still a non-Jew, even in the eyes of the most liberal movements of Judaism, and a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox. In this sense, Judaism is more like a nationality than like other religions, and being Jewish is like a citizenship. See What Is Judaism? "






Offline Raulmarrio2000

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Re: Dr. Baruch Goldstein
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2007, 12:59:13 PM »
Dexter, you are wrong. If I go to Israel and get the Israeli citizenship, even if I am a pure Noachide, or even if I imitate the Jewish lifestyle, even if I am more loyal to Israel and the Jews than the self hating Israeli Govt. I will still be an Israeli Gentile. Never a Jew, unless I undergo Hallachic conversion.
To be a Jew is not a religion ( a Jew who converts to atheism is still a Jew), neither a nationality (someones who is Israeli may be a Goy). To be a Jew/Israelite is just to have a Jewish soul. And a Jewish soul is acquiered only by being born by a Jewess or converting according to Hallacha.
And, please don't confuse conversion to Judaism with conversion to a religion. To be a Jew it's not enough to convert to the Jewish religion (Torah). A gentile who was formerly an atheist also converts to the Torah, and does what Torah orders to the Gentiles, that is to be Noahide. But he is still not a Jew.
Converting to Judaism requieres accepting Torah ( in case the person has not accepted it formerly as a Noahide), deciding to keep what Torah tells to Jews AND A FORMAL RITUAL KOSHER CONVERSION TO GET A NESHAMA!

newman

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Re: Dr. Baruch Goldstein
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2007, 01:02:35 PM »
Dexter, you are wrong. If I go to Israel and get the Israeli citizenship, even if I am a pure Noachide, or even if I imitate the Jewish lifestyle, even if I am more loyal to Israel and the Jews than the self hating Israeli Govt. I will still be an Israeli Gentile. Never a Jew, unless I undergo Hallachic conversion.
To be a Jew is not a religion ( a Jew who converts to atheism is still a Jew), neither a nationality (someones who is Israeli may be a Goy). To be a Jew/Israelite is just to have a Jewish soul. And a Jewish soul is acquiered only by being born by a Jewess or converting according to Hallacha.
And, please don't confuse conversion to Judaism with conversion to a religion. To be a Jew it's not enough to convert to the Jewish religion (Torah). A gentile who was formerly an atheist also converts to the Torah, and does what Torah orders to the Gentiles, that is to be Noahide. But he is still not a Jew.
Converting to Judaism requieres accepting Torah ( in case the person has not accepted it formerly as a Noahide), deciding to keep what Torah tells to Jews AND A FORMAL RITUAL KOSHER CONVERSION TO GET A NESHAMA!

Raul, that's the first sensible thing you've posted in days.

I agree with you 100%. So will every orthodox Rabbi.

Offline Dexter

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Re: Dr. Baruch Goldstein
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2007, 01:11:12 PM »
Quote
Wrong wrong wrong wrong!

1/
Is·rae·li (ĭz-rā'lē)
adj.
Of or relating to modern-day Israel or its people.

n., pl. -lis.
A native or inhabitant of modern-day Israel.

2/
Noun: Israelite  'izreeu`lIt
A native or inhabitant of the ancient kingdom of Israel
 
A person belonging to the worldwide group claiming descent from Jacob (or converted to it) and connected by cultural or religious ties
- Jew, Hebrew

See..........they're different.

A gentile can't be a Jew. He can BECOME a JEW with conversion.
A gentile can't be an Israelite. He can be Israeli with citizenship in the MODERN State of Israel. (see dictionary meanings above).

 A gentile cannot be a Hebrew, Jew, Israelite, Judean without conversion. Then he's NO LONGER a gentile.
Ah..And ALL PEOPLE WHO LIVED IN THE ACIENT ISRAELI KINGDOM OR THE ACIENT JUDEA KINGDOM WERE JEWS ? NO! but because in Hebrew Jewish and Judea, Israeli and Israelite is the same thing, also gentiles were Jewish/Judeans. Ah..END OF DISCCUSION FOR GOD'S SAKE!


Jews are not nationallity ? really ? Herzle would think you are wrong. Ben Gurion too. Begin too, Kahane too etc'. If Jews aren't nationallity than Zionism isn't the national movment of the Jewish people and Israel isn't the Jewish state, Jews are actually not a people but a religion etc'.

And again, Jew doesn't have to believe in Judaism, he doesn't have to born Jewish and doesn't have to convert. But because I see it's hard for you to put the line between "Jewish-Religion" and "Jewish-Nation", let's call those who are part of the Jewish nation as "Hebrews".

Raulmarrio2000-
If we'll change Israel's name to Judea than everyone will be just as Jews (=Judeans) as Arabs are Israeli.
Not a foreign land we took and not with foreign possession but a land that belong to our ancestors that was occupied without a trial. And when we had the opportunity, we took our land back.
-Shimon Maccabee's answer to Antiochus VII Sidetes.

"When fighting monsters, be wary not to become one... When you gaze into the abyss, it also gazes into you."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

newman

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Re: Dr. Baruch Goldstein
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2007, 01:19:43 PM »
Quote
Wrong wrong wrong wrong!

1/
Is·rae·li (ĭz-rā'lē)
adj.
Of or relating to modern-day Israel or its people.

n., pl. -lis.
A native or inhabitant of modern-day Israel.

2/
Noun: Israelite  'izreeu`lIt
A native or inhabitant of the ancient kingdom of Israel
 
A person belonging to the worldwide group claiming descent from Jacob (or converted to it) and connected by cultural or religious ties
- Jew, Hebrew

See..........they're different.

A gentile can't be a Jew. He can BECOME a JEW with conversion.
A gentile can't be an Israelite. He can be Israeli with citizenship in the MODERN State of Israel. (see dictionary meanings above).

 A gentile cannot be a Hebrew, Jew, Israelite, Judean without conversion. Then he's NO LONGER a gentile.
Ah..And ALL PEOPLE WHO LIVED IN THE ACIENT ISRAELI KINGDOM OR THE ACIENT JUDEA KINGDOM WERE JEWS ? NO! but because in Hebrew Jewish and Judea, Israeli and Israelite is the same thing, also gentiles were Jewish/Judeans. Ah..END OF DISCCUSION FOR G-d'S SAKE!


Jews are not nationallity ? really ? Herzle would think you are wrong. Ben Gurion too. Begin too, Kahane too etc'. If Jews aren't nationallity than Zionism isn't the national movment of the Jewish people and Israel isn't the Jewish state, Jews are actually not a people but a religion etc'.

And again, Jew doesn't have to believe in Judaism, he doesn't have to born Jewish and doesn't have to convert. But because I see it's hard for you to put the line between "Jewish-Religion" and "Jewish-Nation", let's call those who are part of the Jewish nation as "Hebrews".

Raulmarrio2000-
If we'll change Israel's name to Judea than everyone will be just as Jews (=Judeans) as Arabs are Israeli.


The Hebrew language is concise. We're speaking of the English definitions accepted by the Rabbis.

Nation......YES
Nationality......NO.

There's a difference.

A Cherokee Indian is part of the Cherokee Nation, but is nationality is US Citizen.

Again:

1/
Is·rae·li (ĭz-rā'lē)
adj.
Of or relating to modern-day Israel or its people.

n., pl. -lis.
A native or inhabitant of modern-day Israel.

2/
Noun: Israelite  'izreeu`lIt
A native or inhabitant of the ancient kingdom of Israel
 
A person belonging to the worldwide group claiming descent from Jacob (or converted to it) and connected by cultural or religious ties
- Jew, Hebrew

See..........they're different.




Offline Dexter

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Re: Dr. Baruch Goldstein
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2007, 01:32:26 PM »
The words "Jewish", "Jew" etc' don't appear in the bible and in the talmud at all.
The fact that the rebbies get the ENGLISH definision on the HEBREW(!!) defenisions tells you that you need to find other rabbies.
Not a foreign land we took and not with foreign possession but a land that belong to our ancestors that was occupied without a trial. And when we had the opportunity, we took our land back.
-Shimon Maccabee's answer to Antiochus VII Sidetes.

"When fighting monsters, be wary not to become one... When you gaze into the abyss, it also gazes into you."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

newman

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Re: Dr. Baruch Goldstein
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2007, 01:42:24 PM »
The words "Jewish", "Jew" etc' don't appear in the bible and in the talmud at all.
The fact that the rebbies get the ENGLISH definision on the HEBREW(!!) defenisions tells you that you need to find other rabbies.

There's a reason:

The original name for the people we now call Jews was Hebrews. The word "Hebrew" (in Hebrew, "Ivri") is first used in the Torah to describe Abraham (Gen. 14:13).

Another name used for the people is Children of Israel or Israelites, which refers to the fact that the people are descendants of Jacob, who was also called Israel.

The word "Jew" (in Hebrew, "Yehudi") is derived from the name Judah, which was the name of one of Jacob's twelve sons. Judah was the ancestor of one of the tribes of Israel, which was named after him. Likewise, the word Judaism literally means "Judah-ism," that is, the religion of the Yehudim. Other sources, however, say that the word "Yehudim" means "People of G-d," because the first three letters of "Yehudah" are the same as the first three letters of G-d's four-letter name.

Originally, the term Yehudi referred specifically to members of the tribe of Judah, as distinguished from the other tribes of Israel. However, after the death of King Solomon, the nation of Israel was split into two kingdoms: the kingdom of Judah and the kingdom of Israel (I Kings 12; II Chronicles 10). After that time, the word Yehudi could properly be used to describe anyone from the kingdom of Judah, which included the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi, as well as scattered settlements from other tribes. The most obvious biblical example of this usage is in Esther 2:5, where Mordecai is referred to as both a Yehudi and a member of the tribe of Benjamin.

In the 6th century B.C.E., the kingdom of Israel was conquered by Assyria and the ten tribes were exiled from the land (II Kings 17), leaving only the tribes in the kingdom of Judah remaining to carry on Abraham's heritage. These people of the kingdom of Judah were generally known to themselves and to other nations as Yehudim (Jews), and that name continues to be used today.

In common speech, the word "Jew" is used to refer to all of the physical and spiritual descendants of Jacob/Israel, as well as to the patriarchs Abraham and Isaac and their wives, and the word "Judaism" is used to refer to their beliefs. Technically, this usage is inaccurate, just as it is technically inaccurate to use the word "Indian" to refer to the original inhabitants of the Americas. However, this technically inaccurate usage is common both within the Jewish community and outside of it, and is therefore used throughout this site.






Offline Dexter

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Re: Dr. Baruch Goldstein
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2007, 02:23:10 PM »
I know that, newman.
Not a foreign land we took and not with foreign possession but a land that belong to our ancestors that was occupied without a trial. And when we had the opportunity, we took our land back.
-Shimon Maccabee's answer to Antiochus VII Sidetes.

"When fighting monsters, be wary not to become one... When you gaze into the abyss, it also gazes into you."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: Dr. Baruch Goldstein
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2007, 06:47:30 PM »
Dexter, soo you call the russian non-jews in Israel as being Jewish? NO or the arabs just because they live in Israel and have Israeli citizenship doesnt make them Jewish. Also just becuase I live in NY doesnt make me a non-Jew or not an Israelite.
 Unfortunatly Herzel and secular zionist movement have twisted the heads of Jews like Dexter here, where being Jewish is actually only (or mainly) associated with having an Israeli passport. Remember that Jews were Jews before the modern state of Israel and if the state gets destroyed their still will be Jews.
 About your comment/ question of Israel being a Jewish state - the answer is NO. Even Rav Kahane said that its a state of Jews, and not a Jewish state.
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline Eliezer Ben Avraham

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Re: Dr. Baruch Goldstein
« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2007, 08:49:20 PM »
Dexter, soo you call the russian non-jews in Israel as being Jewish? NO or the arabs just because they live in Israel and have Israeli citizenship doesnt make them Jewish. Also just becuase I live in NY doesnt make me a non-Jew or not an Israelite.
 Unfortunatly Herzel and secular zionist movement have twisted the heads of Jews like Dexter here, where being Jewish is actually only (or mainly) associated with having an Israeli passport. Remember that Jews were Jews before the modern state of Israel and if the state gets destroyed their still will be Jews.
 About your comment/ question of Israel being a Jewish state - the answer is NO. Even Rav Kahane said that its a state of Jews, and not a Jewish state.
Currently Israel is a State of Jews, but it's ultimate purpose is to be a Jewish State where we can serve G-d properly and a State that will follow Jewish Law
KAHANE TZADAK!

Offline Eliezer Ben Avraham

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Re: Dr. Baruch Goldstein
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2007, 08:58:53 PM »
When Dr. Baruch Goldstein massacred Arabs why did he expose himself to the Arabs? They ended up beating him to death because of that. He could have snipped them instead. Is it possible he was suicidal and if he were should he be praised? I don't think there is anything wrong with sacrificing your life for a cause but since Judaism forbids suicide should religious Jews view him as a hero?
his gun jammed because it was not cleaned properly and the Arabs turned on him
KAHANE TZADAK!

Offline Dexter

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Re: Dr. Baruch Goldstein
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2007, 12:22:22 AM »
Dexter, soo you call the russian non-jews in Israel as being Jewish? NO or the arabs just because they live in Israel and have Israeli citizenship doesnt make them Jewish. Also just becuase I live in NY doesnt make me a non-Jew or not an Israelite.
 Unfortunatly Herzel and secular zionist movement have twisted the heads of Jews like Dexter here, where being Jewish is actually only (or mainly) associated with having an Israeli passport. Remember that Jews were Jews before the modern state of Israel and if the state gets destroyed their still will be Jews.
 About your comment/ question of Israel being a Jewish state - the answer is NO. Even Rav Kahane said that its a state of Jews, and not a Jewish state.
Jews ? no, as long as they keep calling themselvs Russian why would I call tham Jews ?
Not a foreign land we took and not with foreign possession but a land that belong to our ancestors that was occupied without a trial. And when we had the opportunity, we took our land back.
-Shimon Maccabee's answer to Antiochus VII Sidetes.

"When fighting monsters, be wary not to become one... When you gaze into the abyss, it also gazes into you."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

newman

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Re: Dr. Baruch Goldstein
« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2007, 12:25:54 AM »
Dexter, soo you call the russian non-jews in Israel as being Jewish? NO or the arabs just because they live in Israel and have Israeli citizenship doesnt make them Jewish. Also just becuase I live in NY doesnt make me a non-Jew or not an Israelite.
 Unfortunatly Herzel and secular zionist movement have twisted the heads of Jews like Dexter here, where being Jewish is actually only (or mainly) associated with having an Israeli passport. Remember that Jews were Jews before the modern state of Israel and if the state gets destroyed their still will be Jews.
 About your comment/ question of Israel being a Jewish state - the answer is NO. Even Rav Kahane said that its a state of Jews, and not a Jewish state.
Jews ? no, as long as they keep calling themselvs Russian why would I call tham Jews ?


Even if they call themselves Israeli you can't call them Jews, Hebrews or Israelites. Unless they have Jewish mothers or are hallachicly converted they will be Israeli gentiles. Never Jews.

Offline judeanoncapta

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Re: Dr. Baruch Goldstein
« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2007, 01:07:10 AM »
The words "Jewish", "Jew" etc' don't appear in the bible and in the talmud at all.
The fact that the rebbies get the ENGLISH definision on the HEBREW(!!) defenisions tells you that you need to find other rabbies.

What are you talking about?

The Word Jew certainly DOES appear in the Bible.

Book of Esther


Chapter 2

 
ה  אִישׁ יְהוּדִי, הָיָה בְּשׁוּשַׁן הַבִּירָה; וּשְׁמוֹ מָרְדֳּכַי, בֶּן יָאִיר בֶּן-שִׁמְעִי בֶּן-קִישׁ--אִישׁ יְמִינִי.  5 There was a certain Jew in Shushan the castle, whose name was Mordecai the son of Jair the son of Shimei the son of Kish, a Benjamite, 



 Chapter 3

 
ד  וַיְהִי, באמרם (כְּאָמְרָם) אֵלָיו יוֹם וָיוֹם, וְלֹא שָׁמַע, אֲלֵיהֶם; וַיַּגִּידוּ לְהָמָן, לִרְאוֹת הֲיַעַמְדוּ דִּבְרֵי מָרְדֳּכַי--כִּי-הִגִּיד לָהֶם, אֲשֶׁר-הוּא יְהוּדִי.  4 Now it came to pass, when they spoke daily unto him, and he hearkened not unto them, that they told Haman, to see whether Mordecai's words would stand; for he had told them that he was a Jew. 


 
ו  וַיִּבֶז בְּעֵינָיו, לִשְׁלֹחַ יָד בְּמָרְדֳּכַי לְבַדּוֹ--כִּי-הִגִּידוּ לוֹ, אֶת-עַם מָרְדֳּכָי; וַיְבַקֵּשׁ הָמָן, לְהַשְׁמִיד אֶת-כָּל-הַיְּהוּדִים אֲשֶׁר בְּכָל-מַלְכוּת אֲחַשְׁוֵרוֹשׁ--עַם מָרְדֳּכָי.  6 But it seemed contemptible in his eyes to lay hands on Mordecai alone; for they had made known to him the people of Mordecai; wherefore Haman sought to destroy all the Jews that were throughout the whole kingdom of Ahasuerus, even the people of Mordecai. 

 
יג  וְנִשְׁלוֹחַ סְפָרִים בְּיַד הָרָצִים, אֶל-כָּל-מְדִינוֹת הַמֶּלֶךְ--לְהַשְׁמִיד לַהֲרֹג וּלְאַבֵּד אֶת-כָּל-הַיְּהוּדִים מִנַּעַר וְעַד-זָקֵן טַף וְנָשִׁים בְּיוֹם אֶחָד, בִּשְׁלוֹשָׁה עָשָׂר לְחֹדֶשׁ שְׁנֵים-עָשָׂר הוּא-חֹדֶשׁ אֲדָר; וּשְׁלָלָם, לָבוֹז.  13 And letters were sent by posts into all the king's provinces, to destroy, to slay, and to cause to perish, all Jews, both young and old, little children and women, in one day, even upon the thirteenth day of the twelfth month, which is the month Adar, and to take the spoil of them for a prey. 

Chapter 4


ג  וּבְכָל-מְדִינָה וּמְדִינָה, מְקוֹם אֲשֶׁר דְּבַר-הַמֶּלֶךְ וְדָתוֹ מַגִּיעַ--אֵבֶל גָּדוֹל לַיְּהוּדִים, וְצוֹם וּבְכִי וּמִסְפֵּד; שַׂק וָאֵפֶר, יֻצַּע לָרַבִּים.  3 And in every province, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, there was great mourning among the Jews, and fasting, and weeping, and wailing; and many lay in sackcloth and ashes. 

 
ז  וַיַּגֶּד-לוֹ מָרְדֳּכַי, אֵת כָּל-אֲשֶׁר קָרָהוּ; וְאֵת פָּרָשַׁת הַכֶּסֶף, אֲשֶׁר אָמַר הָמָן לִשְׁקוֹל עַל-גִּנְזֵי הַמֶּלֶךְ ביהודיים (בַּיְּהוּדִים)--לְאַבְּדָם.  7 And Mordecai told him of all that had happened unto him, and the exact sum of the money that Haman had promised to pay to the king's treasuries for the Jews, to destroy them. 


יד  כִּי אִם-הַחֲרֵשׁ תַּחֲרִישִׁי, בָּעֵת הַזֹּאת--רֶוַח וְהַצָּלָה יַעֲמוֹד לַיְּהוּדִים מִמָּקוֹם אַחֵר, וְאַתְּ וּבֵית-אָבִיךְ תֹּאבֵדוּ; וּמִי יוֹדֵעַ--אִם-לְעֵת כָּזֹאת, הִגַּעַתְּ לַמַּלְכוּת.  14 For if thou altogether holdest thy peace at this time, then will relief and deliverance arise to the Jews from another place, but thou and thy father's house will perish; and who knoweth whether thou art not come to royal estate for such a time as this?' 

 
טז  לֵךְ כְּנוֹס אֶת-כָּל-הַיְּהוּדִים הַנִּמְצְאִים בְּשׁוּשָׁן, וְצוּמוּ עָלַי וְאַל-תֹּאכְלוּ וְאַל-תִּשְׁתּוּ שְׁלֹשֶׁת יָמִים לַיְלָה וָיוֹם--גַּם-אֲנִי וְנַעֲרֹתַי, אָצוּם כֵּן; וּבְכֵן אָבוֹא אֶל-הַמֶּלֶךְ, אֲשֶׁר לֹא-כַדָּת, וְכַאֲשֶׁר אָבַדְתִּי, אָבָדְתִּי.  16 'Go, gather together all the Jews that are present in Shushan, and fast ye for me, and neither eat nor drink three days, night or day; I also and my maidens will fast in like manner; and so will I go in unto the king, which is not according to the law; and if I perish, I perish.' 


 
יג  וְכָל-זֶה, אֵינֶנּוּ שֹׁוֶה לִי:  בְּכָל-עֵת, אֲשֶׁר אֲנִי רֹאֶה אֶת-מָרְדֳּכַי הַיְּהוּדִי--יוֹשֵׁב, בְּשַׁעַר הַמֶּלֶךְ.  13 Yet all this availeth me nothing, so long as I see Mordecai the Jew sitting at the king's gate.' 

 Chapter 6
י  וַיֹּאמֶר הַמֶּלֶךְ לְהָמָן, מַהֵר קַח אֶת-הַלְּבוּשׁ וְאֶת-הַסּוּס כַּאֲשֶׁר דִּבַּרְתָּ, וַעֲשֵׂה-כֵן לְמָרְדֳּכַי הַיְּהוּדִי, הַיּוֹשֵׁב בְּשַׁעַר הַמֶּלֶךְ:  אַל-תַּפֵּל דָּבָר, מִכֹּל אֲשֶׁר דִּבַּרְתָּ.  10 Then the king said to Haman: 'Make haste, and take the apparel and the horse, as thou hast said, and do even so to Mordecai the Jew, that sitteth at the king's gate; let nothing fail of all that thou hast spoken.' 


 
יג  וַיְסַפֵּר הָמָן לְזֶרֶשׁ אִשְׁתּוֹ, וּלְכָל-אֹהֲבָיו, אֵת, כָּל-אֲשֶׁר קָרָהוּ; וַיֹּאמְרוּ לוֹ חֲכָמָיו וְזֶרֶשׁ אִשְׁתּוֹ, אִם מִזֶּרַע הַיְּהוּדִים מָרְדֳּכַי אֲשֶׁר הַחִלּוֹתָ לִנְפֹּל לְפָנָיו לֹא-תוּכַל לוֹ--כִּי-נָפוֹל תִּפּוֹל, לְפָנָיו.  13 And Haman recounted unto Zeresh his wife and all his friends every thing that had befallen him. Then said his wise men and Zeresh his wife unto him: 'If Mordecai, before whom thou hast begun to fall, be of the seed of the Jews, thou shalt not prevail against him, but shalt surely fall before him.' 

Chapter 8

א  בַּיּוֹם הַהוּא, נָתַן הַמֶּלֶךְ אֲחַשְׁוֵרוֹשׁ לְאֶסְתֵּר הַמַּלְכָּה, אֶת-בֵּית הָמָן, צֹרֵר היהודיים (הַיְּהוּדִים); וּמָרְדֳּכַי, בָּא לִפְנֵי הַמֶּלֶךְ--כִּי-הִגִּידָה אֶסְתֵּר, מַה הוּא-לָהּ.  1 On that day did the king Ahasuerus give the house of Haman the Jews' enemy unto Esther the queen. And Mordecai came before the king; for Esther had told what he was unto her. 

ג  וַתּוֹסֶף אֶסְתֵּר, וַתְּדַבֵּר לִפְנֵי הַמֶּלֶךְ, וַתִּפֹּל, לִפְנֵי רַגְלָיו; וַתֵּבְךְּ וַתִּתְחַנֶּן-לוֹ, לְהַעֲבִיר אֶת-רָעַת הָמָן הָאֲגָגִי, וְאֵת מַחֲשַׁבְתּוֹ, אֲשֶׁר חָשַׁב עַל-הַיְּהוּדִים.  3 And Esther spoke yet again before the king, and fell down at his feet, and besought him with tears to put away the mischief of Haman the Agagite, and his device that he had devised against the Jews. 

 
ה  וַתֹּאמֶר אִם-עַל-הַמֶּלֶךְ טוֹב וְאִם-מָצָאתִי חֵן לְפָנָיו, וְכָשֵׁר הַדָּבָר לִפְנֵי הַמֶּלֶךְ, וְטוֹבָה אֲנִי, בְּעֵינָיו--יִכָּתֵב לְהָשִׁיב אֶת-הַסְּפָרִים, מַחֲשֶׁבֶת הָמָן בֶּן-הַמְּדָתָא הָאֲגָגִי, אֲשֶׁר כָּתַב לְאַבֵּד אֶת-הַיְּהוּדִים, אֲשֶׁר בְּכָל-מְדִינוֹת הַמֶּלֶךְ.  5 And she said: 'If it please the king, and if I have found favour in his sight, and the thing seem right before the king, and I be pleasing in his eyes, let it be written to reverse the letters devised by Haman the son of Hammedatha the Agagite, which he wrote to destroy the Jews that are in all the king's provinces; 

 
ז  וַיֹּאמֶר הַמֶּלֶךְ אֲחַשְׁוֵרֹשׁ לְאֶסְתֵּר הַמַּלְכָּה, וּלְמָרְדֳּכַי הַיְּהוּדִי:  הִנֵּה בֵית-הָמָן נָתַתִּי לְאֶסְתֵּר, וְאֹתוֹ תָּלוּ עַל-הָעֵץ--עַל אֲשֶׁר-שָׁלַח יָדוֹ, ביהודיים (בַּיְּהוּדִים).  7 Then the king Ahasuerus said unto Esther the queen and to Mordecai the Jew: 'Behold, I have given Esther the house of Haman, and him they have hanged upon the gallows, because he laid his hand upon the Jews. 


 
ח  וְאַתֶּם כִּתְבוּ עַל-הַיְּהוּדִים כַּטּוֹב בְּעֵינֵיכֶם, בְּשֵׁם הַמֶּלֶךְ, וְחִתְמוּ, בְּטַבַּעַת הַמֶּלֶךְ:  כִּי-כְתָב אֲשֶׁר-נִכְתָּב בְּשֵׁם-הַמֶּלֶךְ, וְנַחְתּוֹם בְּטַבַּעַת הַמֶּלֶךְ--אֵין לְהָשִׁיב.  8 Write ye also concerning the Jews, as it liketh you, in the king's name, and seal it with the king's ring; for the writing which is written in the king's name, and sealed with the king's ring, may no man reverse.' 

ט  וַיִּקָּרְאוּ סֹפְרֵי-הַמֶּלֶךְ בָּעֵת-הַהִיא בַּחֹדֶשׁ הַשְּׁלִישִׁי הוּא-חֹדֶשׁ סִיוָן, בִּשְׁלוֹשָׁה וְעֶשְׂרִים בּוֹ, וַיִּכָּתֵב כְּכָל-אֲשֶׁר-צִוָּה מָרְדֳּכַי אֶל-הַיְּהוּדִים וְאֶל הָאֲחַשְׁדַּרְפְּנִים-וְהַפַּחוֹת וְשָׂרֵי הַמְּדִינוֹת אֲשֶׁר מֵהֹדּוּ וְעַד-כּוּשׁ שֶׁבַע וְעֶשְׂרִים וּמֵאָה מְדִינָה, מְדִינָה וּמְדִינָה כִּכְתָבָהּ וְעַם וָעָם כִּלְשֹׁנוֹ; וְאֶל-הַיְּהוּדִים--כִּכְתָבָם, וְכִלְשׁוֹנָם.  9 Then were the king's scribes called at that time, in the third month, which is the month Sivan, on the three and twentieth day thereof; and it was written according to all that Mordecai commanded concerning the Jews, even to the satraps, and the governors and princes of the provinces which are from India unto Ethiopia, a hundred twenty and seven provinces, unto every province according to the writing thereof, and unto every people after their language, and to the Jews according to their writing, and according to their language. 

 
יא  אֲשֶׁר נָתַן הַמֶּלֶךְ לַיְּהוּדִים אֲשֶׁר בְּכָל-עִיר-וָעִיר, לְהִקָּהֵל וְלַעֲמֹד עַל-נַפְשָׁם--לְהַשְׁמִיד וְלַהֲרֹג וּלְאַבֵּד אֶת-כָּל-חֵיל עַם וּמְדִינָה הַצָּרִים אֹתָם, טַף וְנָשִׁים; וּשְׁלָלָם, לָבוֹז.  11 that the king had granted the Jews that were in every city to gather themselves together, and to stand for their life, to destroy, and to slay, and to cause to perish, all the forces of the people and province that would assault them, their little ones and women, and to take the spoil of them for a prey, 

 
יג  פַּתְשֶׁגֶן הַכְּתָב, לְהִנָּתֵן דָּת בְּכָל-מְדִינָה וּמְדִינָה, גָּלוּי, לְכָל-הָעַמִּים; וְלִהְיוֹת היהודיים (הַיְּהוּדִים) עתודים (עֲתִידִים) לַיּוֹם הַזֶּה, לְהִנָּקֵם מֵאֹיְבֵיהֶם.  13 The copy of the writing, to be given out for a decree in every province, was to be published unto all the peoples, and that the Jews should be ready against that day to avenge themselves on their enemies. 

 
טז  לַיְּהוּדִים, הָיְתָה אוֹרָה וְשִׂמְחָה, וְשָׂשֹׂן, וִיקָר.  16 The Jews had light and gladness, and joy and honour. 
יז  וּבְכָל-מְדִינָה וּמְדִינָה וּבְכָל-עִיר וָעִיר, מְקוֹם אֲשֶׁר דְּבַר-הַמֶּלֶךְ וְדָתוֹ מַגִּיעַ, שִׂמְחָה וְשָׂשׂוֹן לַיְּהוּדִים, מִשְׁתֶּה וְיוֹם טוֹב; וְרַבִּים מֵעַמֵּי הָאָרֶץ, מִתְיַהֲדִים--כִּי-נָפַל פַּחַד-הַיְּהוּדִים, עֲלֵיהֶם.  17 And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, the Jews had gladness and joy, a feast and a good day. And many from among the peoples of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews was fallen upon them. 

Chapter 9
א  וּבִשְׁנֵים עָשָׂר חֹדֶשׁ הוּא-חֹדֶשׁ אֲדָר, בִּשְׁלוֹשָׁה עָשָׂר יוֹם בּוֹ, אֲשֶׁר הִגִּיעַ דְּבַר-הַמֶּלֶךְ וְדָתוֹ, לְהֵעָשׂוֹת:  בַּיּוֹם, אֲשֶׁר שִׂבְּרוּ אֹיְבֵי הַיְּהוּדִים לִשְׁלוֹט בָּהֶם, וְנַהֲפוֹךְ הוּא, אֲשֶׁר יִשְׁלְטוּ הַיְּהוּדִים הֵמָּה בְּשֹׂנְאֵיהֶם.  1 Now in the twelfth month, which is the month Adar, on the thirteenth day of the same, when the king's commandment and his decree drew near to be put in execution, in the day that the enemies of the Jews hoped to have rule over them; whereas it was turned to the contrary, that the Jews had rule over them that hated them; 
ב  נִקְהֲלוּ הַיְּהוּדִים בְּעָרֵיהֶם, בְּכָל-מְדִינוֹת הַמֶּלֶךְ אֲחַשְׁוֵרוֹשׁ, לִשְׁלֹחַ יָד, בִּמְבַקְשֵׁי רָעָתָם; וְאִישׁ לֹא-עָמַד לִפְנֵיהֶם, כִּי-נָפַל פַּחְדָּם עַל-כָּל-הָעַמִּים.  2 the Jews gathered themselves together in their cities throughout all the provinces of the king Ahasuerus, to lay hand on such as sought their hurt; and no man could withstand them; for the fear of them was fallen upon all the peoples. 
ג  וְכָל-שָׂרֵי הַמְּדִינוֹת וְהָאֲחַשְׁדַּרְפְּנִים וְהַפַּחוֹת, וְעֹשֵׂי הַמְּלָאכָה אֲשֶׁר לַמֶּלֶךְ--מְנַשְּׂאִים, אֶת-הַיְּהוּדִים:  כִּי-נָפַל פַּחַד-מָרְדֳּכַי, עֲלֵיהֶם.  3 And all the princes of the provinces, and the satraps, and the governors, and they that did the king's business, helped the Jews; because the fear of Mordecai was fallen upon them. 


ה  וַיַּכּוּ הַיְּהוּדִים בְּכָל-אֹיְבֵיהֶם, מַכַּת-חֶרֶב וְהֶרֶג וְאַבְדָן; וַיַּעֲשׂוּ בְשֹׂנְאֵיהֶם, כִּרְצוֹנָם.  5 And the Jews smote all their enemies with the stroke of the sword, and with slaughter and destruction, and did what they would unto them that hated them. 
ו  וּבְשׁוּשַׁן הַבִּירָה, הָרְגוּ הַיְּהוּדִים וְאַבֵּד--חֲמֵשׁ מֵאוֹת,  {ר}  אִישׁ.  {ס}  6 And in Shushan the castle the Jews slew and destroyed five hundred men.

 
י  עֲשֶׂרֶת  {ר}  בְּנֵי הָמָן בֶּן-הַמְּדָתָא, צֹרֵר הַיְּהוּדִים--הָרָגוּ; וּבַבִּזָּה--לֹא שָׁלְחוּ, אֶת-יָדָם.  10 the ten sons of Haman the son of Hammedatha, the Jews' enemy, slew they; but on the spoil they laid not their hand. 

יב  וַיֹּאמֶר הַמֶּלֶךְ לְאֶסְתֵּר הַמַּלְכָּה, בְּשׁוּשַׁן הַבִּירָה הָרְגוּ הַיְּהוּדִים וְאַבֵּד חֲמֵשׁ מֵאוֹת אִישׁ וְאֵת עֲשֶׂרֶת בְּנֵי-הָמָן--בִּשְׁאָר מְדִינוֹת הַמֶּלֶךְ, מֶה עָשׂוּ; וּמַה-שְּׁאֵלָתֵךְ וְיִנָּתֵן לָךְ, וּמַה-בַּקָּשָׁתֵךְ עוֹד וְתֵעָשׂ.  12 And the king said unto Esther the queen: 'The Jews have slain and destroyed five hundred men in Shushan the castle, and the ten sons of Haman; what then have they done in the rest of the king's provinces! Now whatever thy petition, it shall be granted thee; and whatever thy request further, it shall be done.' 
יג  וַתֹּאמֶר אֶסְתֵּר, אִם-עַל-הַמֶּלֶךְ טוֹב--יִנָּתֵן גַּם-מָחָר לַיְּהוּדִים אֲשֶׁר בְּשׁוּשָׁן, לַעֲשׂוֹת כְּדָת הַיּוֹם; וְאֵת עֲשֶׂרֶת בְּנֵי-הָמָן, יִתְלוּ עַל-הָעֵץ.  13 Then said Esther: 'If it please the king, let it be granted to the Jews that are in Shushan to do to-morrow also according unto this day's decree, and let Haman's ten sons be hanged upon the gallows.' 

טו  וַיִּקָּהֲלוּ היהודיים (הַיְּהוּדִים) אֲשֶׁר-בְּשׁוּשָׁן, גַּם בְּיוֹם אַרְבָּעָה עָשָׂר לְחֹדֶשׁ אֲדָר, וַיַּהַרְגוּ בְשׁוּשָׁן, שְׁלֹשׁ מֵאוֹת אִישׁ; וּבַבִּזָּה--לֹא שָׁלְחוּ, אֶת-יָדָם.  15 And the Jews that were in Shushan gathered themselves together on the fourteenth day also of the month Adar, and slew three hundred men in Shushan; but on the spoil they laid not their hand. 
טז  וּשְׁאָר הַיְּהוּדִים אֲשֶׁר בִּמְדִינוֹת הַמֶּלֶךְ נִקְהֲלוּ וְעָמֹד עַל-נַפְשָׁם, וְנוֹחַ מֵאֹיְבֵיהֶם, וְהָרוֹג בְּשֹׂנְאֵיהֶם, חֲמִשָּׁה וְשִׁבְעִים אָלֶף; וּבַבִּזָּה--לֹא שָׁלְחוּ, אֶת-יָדָם.  16 And the other Jews that were in the king's provinces gathered themselves together, and stood for their lives, and had rest from their enemies, and slew of them that hated them seventy and five thousand--but on the spoil they laid not their hand-- 


יח  והיהודיים (וְהַיְּהוּדִים) אֲשֶׁר-בְּשׁוּשָׁן, נִקְהֲלוּ בִּשְׁלוֹשָׁה עָשָׂר בּוֹ, וּבְאַרְבָּעָה עָשָׂר, בּוֹ; וְנוֹחַ, בַּחֲמִשָּׁה עָשָׂר בּוֹ, וְעָשֹׂה אֹתוֹ, יוֹם מִשְׁתֶּה וְשִׂמְחָה.  18 But the Jews that were in Shushan assembled together on the thirteenth day thereof, and on the fourteenth thereof; and on the fifteenth day of the same they rested, and made it a day of feasting and gladness. 
יט  עַל-כֵּן הַיְּהוּדִים הפרוזים (הַפְּרָזִים), הַיֹּשְׁבִים בְּעָרֵי הַפְּרָזוֹת--עֹשִׂים אֵת יוֹם אַרְבָּעָה עָשָׂר לְחֹדֶשׁ אֲדָר, שִׂמְחָה וּמִשְׁתֶּה וְיוֹם טוֹב; וּמִשְׁלֹחַ מָנוֹת, אִישׁ לְרֵעֵהוּ.  19 Therefore do the Jews of the villages, that dwell in the unwalled towns, make the fourteenth day of the month Adar a day of gladness and feasting, and a good day, and of sending portions one to another. 
כ  וַיִּכְתֹּב מָרְדֳּכַי, אֶת-הַדְּבָרִים הָאֵלֶּה; וַיִּשְׁלַח סְפָרִים אֶל-כָּל-הַיְּהוּדִים, אֲשֶׁר בְּכָל-מְדִינוֹת הַמֶּלֶךְ אֲחַשְׁוֵרוֹשׁ--הַקְּרוֹבִים, וְהָרְחוֹקִים.  20 And Mordecai wrote these things, and sent letters unto all the Jews that were in all the provinces of the king Ahasuerus, both nigh and far, 


כב  כַּיָּמִים, אֲשֶׁר-נָחוּ בָהֶם הַיְּהוּדִים מֵאֹיְבֵיהֶם, וְהַחֹדֶשׁ אֲשֶׁר נֶהְפַּךְ לָהֶם מִיָּגוֹן לְשִׂמְחָה, וּמֵאֵבֶל לְיוֹם טוֹב; לַעֲשׂוֹת אוֹתָם, יְמֵי מִשְׁתֶּה וְשִׂמְחָה, וּמִשְׁלֹחַ מָנוֹת אִישׁ לְרֵעֵהוּ, וּמַתָּנוֹת לָאֶבְיֹנִים.  22 the days wherein the Jews had rest from their enemies, and the month which was turned unto them from sorrow to gladness, and from mourning into a good day; that they should make them days of feasting and gladness, and of sending portions one to another, and gifts to the poor. 
כג  וְקִבֵּל, הַיְּהוּדִים, אֵת אֲשֶׁר-הֵחֵלּוּ, לַעֲשׂוֹת; וְאֵת אֲשֶׁר-כָּתַב מָרְדֳּכַי, אֲלֵיהֶם.  23 And the Jews took upon them to do as they had begun, and as Mordecai had written unto them; 
כד  כִּי הָמָן בֶּן-הַמְּדָתָא הָאֲגָגִי, צֹרֵר כָּל-הַיְּהוּדִים--חָשַׁב עַל-הַיְּהוּדִים, לְאַבְּדָם; וְהִפִּל פּוּר הוּא הַגּוֹרָל, לְהֻמָּם וּלְאַבְּדָם.  24 because Haman the son of Hammedatha, the Agagite, the enemy of all the Jews, had devised against the Jews to destroy them, and had cast pur, that is, the lot, to discomfit them, and to destroy them; 
כה  וּבְבֹאָהּ, לִפְנֵי הַמֶּלֶךְ, אָמַר עִם-הַסֵּפֶר, יָשׁוּב מַחֲשַׁבְתּוֹ הָרָעָה אֲשֶׁר-חָשַׁב עַל-הַיְּהוּדִים עַל-רֹאשׁוֹ; וְתָלוּ אֹתוֹ וְאֶת-בָּנָיו, עַל-הָעֵץ.  25 but when she came before the king, he commanded by letters that his wicked device, which he had devised against the Jews, should return upon his own head; and that he and his sons should be hanged on the gallows. 

כז  קִיְּמוּ וקבל (וְקִבְּלוּ) הַיְּהוּדִים עֲלֵיהֶם וְעַל-זַרְעָם וְעַל כָּל-הַנִּלְוִים עֲלֵיהֶם, וְלֹא יַעֲבוֹר--לִהְיוֹת עֹשִׂים אֵת שְׁנֵי הַיָּמִים הָאֵלֶּה, כִּכְתָבָם וְכִזְמַנָּם:  בְּכָל-שָׁנָה, וְשָׁנָה.  27 the Jews ordained, and took upon them, and upon their seed, and upon all such as joined themselves unto them, so as it should not fail, that they would keep these two days according to the writing thereof, and according to the appointed time thereof, every year; 
כח  וְהַיָּמִים הָאֵלֶּה נִזְכָּרִים וְנַעֲשִׂים בְּכָל-דּוֹר וָדוֹר, מִשְׁפָּחָה וּמִשְׁפָּחָה, מְדִינָה וּמְדִינָה, וְעִיר וָעִיר; וִימֵי הַפּוּרִים הָאֵלֶּה, לֹא יַעַבְרוּ מִתּוֹךְ הַיְּהוּדִים, וְזִכְרָם, לֹא-יָסוּף מִזַּרְעָם.  {ס}  28 and that these days should be remembered and kept throughout every generation, every family, every province, and every city; and that these days of Purim should not fail from among the Jews, nor the memorial of them perish from their seed. {S} 
כט  וַתִּכְתֹּב אֶסְתֵּר הַמַּלְכָּה בַת-אֲבִיחַיִל, וּמָרְדֳּכַי הַיְּהוּדִי--אֶת-כָּל-תֹּקֶף:  לְקַיֵּם, אֵת אִגֶּרֶת הַפֻּרִים הַזֹּאת--הַשֵּׁנִית.  29 Then Esther the queen, the daughter of Abihail, and Mordecai the Jew, wrote down all the acts of power, to confirm this second letter of Purim. 

לא  לְקַיֵּם אֶת-יְמֵי הַפֻּרִים הָאֵלֶּה בִּזְמַנֵּיהֶם, כַּאֲשֶׁר קִיַּם עֲלֵיהֶם מָרְדֳּכַי הַיְּהוּדִי וְאֶסְתֵּר הַמַּלְכָּה, וְכַאֲשֶׁר קִיְּמוּ עַל-נַפְשָׁם, וְעַל-זַרְעָם:  דִּבְרֵי הַצּוֹמוֹת, וְזַעֲקָתָם.  31 to confirm these days of Purim in their appointed times, according as Mordecai the Jew and Esther the queen had enjoined them, and as they had ordained for themselves and for their seed, the matters of the fastings and their cry. 

Chapter 10

 
ג  כִּי מָרְדֳּכַי הַיְּהוּדִי, מִשְׁנֶה לַמֶּלֶךְ אֲחַשְׁוֵרוֹשׁ, וְגָדוֹל לַיְּהוּדִים, וְרָצוּי לְרֹב אֶחָיו--דֹּרֵשׁ טוֹב לְעַמּוֹ, וְדֹבֵר שָׁלוֹם לְכָל-זַרְעוֹ.  {ש}  3 For Mordecai the Jew was next unto king Ahasuerus, and great among the Jews, and accepted of the multitude of his brethren; seeking the good of his people and speaking peace to all his seed. {P} 


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Offline MarZutra

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Re: Dr. Baruch Goldstein
« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2007, 01:09:42 AM »
I just got an email from Barry Chamish stating that Goldstein didn't kill anyone and that it was all a setup...
"‘Vehorashtem/Numbers 33:53’: When you burn out the Land’s inhabitants, you will merit to bestow upon your children the Land as an inheritance. If you do not burn them out, then even if you conquer the Land, you will not merit to allot it to your children as an inheritance." - Ovadiah ben Yacov Sforno; Italian Rabbi, Biblical Commentator, Philosopher and Physician.  1475-1550.

Offline judeanoncapta

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Re: Dr. Baruch Goldstein
« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2007, 01:15:50 AM »
I counted 48 Jews, Dexter, in the Book of Esther alone.
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Offline Israeli Mouse

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Re: Dr. Baruch Goldstein
« Reply #41 on: November 21, 2007, 02:49:51 AM »
He sure killed a lot of Arabs for a one man operation. Theres more than one way to kill cockroaches, he used a Galil rifle to do the job as well, my favorite rifle.

When Dr. Baruch Goldstein massacred Arabs why did he expose himself to the Arabs? They ended up beating him to death because of that. He could have snipped them instead. Is it possible he was suicidal and if he were should he be praised? I don't think there is anything wrong with sacrificing your life for a cause but since Judaism forbids suicide should religious Jews view him as a hero?
his gun jammed because it was not cleaned properly and the Arabs turned on him

Nah it wasn't from jamming, galils don't jam, they are based off the AK47 and extremely reliable. My understanding is they subdued him when he was reloading.

At 05:00 on February 25, eight hundred PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazi Muslims passed through the east gate of the cave to participate in Fajr, the first of the five daily Islamic prayers. [3] The cave was under Israeli Army guard, but of the nine soldiers supposed to have been on duty, four were late turning up and only one officer was there. [4]

Shortly afterwards Baruch Goldstein, a Jewish resident of the Kiryat Arba settlement and member of the extremist Kahanist movement, entered the Isaac Hall of the cave. He was dressed in his army uniform and carrying an IMI Galil assault rifle and four magazines of ammunition, which held 35 rounds each. He was not stopped by the guards, who assumed that he was an officer entering the tomb to pray in an adjacent chamber reserved for Jews. [5]

Standing in front of the only exit from the cave and positioned to the rear of the Muslim worshippers, he opened fire with the weapon, killing 29 people and injuring another 125. He was eventually overwhelmed by survivors, who beat him to death. [6] [7] [8] [9]

Reports after the massacre were inevitably highly confused. In particular, there was uncertainty about whether Goldstein had acted alone; it was reported that eyewitnesses had seen "another man, also dressed as a soldier, handing him ammunition." [10] There were also reports that he had thrown grenades into the worshippers. [11] The PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazi leader Yasser Arafat claimed that the attack was the work of up to 12 men, including Israeli troops. However, a preliminary Israeli Army investigation, and the more thorough commission later set up, found that there had been no use of grenades and that Goldstein had acted alone without the assistance or connivance of the Israeli guards posted at the cave. [12]


"only one officer was there."
- That would be my cozen Rich. He was the first one the seen and he's probably the only one who knows the real story from first hand experience. I don't remember the whole thing but I remember quite a bit of it and am planing to type up what i remember tomorrow. I am trying to get him to write up the whole ordeal and send it to the press. When he was interviewed after the whole thing happened the army told him to keep his mouth shut so he had to, but now that it is way over and they really cant do anything to him now I'm trying to get him to, he just needs to find the time.
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Offline Muck DeFuslims

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Re: Dr. Baruch Goldstein
« Reply #42 on: November 21, 2007, 03:03:05 AM »
When Kahanists come to power, a movie should be made honoring Dr. Goldstein. Baruch Goldstein's name should always be mentioned with reverence. A true freedom fighter and hero.

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Re: Dr. Baruch Goldstein
« Reply #43 on: November 21, 2007, 07:47:14 AM »
I counted 48 Jews, Dexter, in the Book of Esther alone.
It isn't part of the Bible (Torah), we are talking about the time befor the exile.
Not a foreign land we took and not with foreign possession but a land that belong to our ancestors that was occupied without a trial. And when we had the opportunity, we took our land back.
-Shimon Maccabee's answer to Antiochus VII Sidetes.

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Offline White Israelite

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Re: Dr. Baruch Goldstein
« Reply #44 on: November 21, 2007, 08:59:47 AM »
Even though some members may differentiate who is Jewish and who isn't, lets not forget Hitler didn't differentiate who was Jewish and who wasn't. He killed anyone with one Jewish parent or a Jewish grandparent. The Neo Nazis today also assume anyone to be of Jewish descent regardless of their religion or if we consider them Jewish to be a Jew and therefore many "half-Jews" face as much anti-semitism as we do today.

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: Dr. Baruch Goldstein
« Reply #45 on: November 21, 2007, 01:43:34 PM »
Even though some members may differentiate who is Jewish and who isn't, lets not forget Hitler didn't differentiate who was Jewish and who wasn't. He killed anyone with one Jewish parent or a Jewish grandparent. The Neo Nazis today also assume anyone to be of Jewish descent regardless of their religion or if we consider them Jewish to be a Jew and therefore many "half-Jews" face as much anti-semitism as we do today.

 Hitler doesn't decide Halacha, G-d and the Hachamim decide what is accepted and not.
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: Dr. Baruch Goldstein
« Reply #46 on: November 21, 2007, 01:44:38 PM »
Also we are not a people defined by our persecution, but the Torah and its laws.
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline mord

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Re: Dr. Baruch Goldstein
« Reply #47 on: November 21, 2007, 01:50:21 PM »
Maybe Hitler would be addmitted to Israel,although many people with a Jewish father in the U.S. would'nt be the same as such a person from the former soviet union
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
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Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: Dr. Baruch Goldstein
« Reply #48 on: November 21, 2007, 01:55:28 PM »
This is actually the core of the problem in the Jewish world today. We are left to decide of where our identity comes from. It will come in one of 2 ways, either "walking in G-d's statutes and keeping his laws" or by persecution by the gentiles and them not letting us assimilate and become them.
 Unfortunatly many have forgotten G-d's laws and so G-d because of his mercy has sent us the persecuters to try to wake us up.
 We can have one of 2 ways, by not choosing the first, we are made to face the second, and thats why and where a lot of the self hatred comes from. Thats basically the leaders of the state of Israel, and the reason why many belive to have Israel for, not a proud strong nation sanctifying G-d's name, but a scared people who have ran away from Europe to get away from the persecutions, soo now the persecutiuons have stopped (supposidly), (in their minds)- what do we need Israel for? Why not slowly shift back to Europe, or to America?
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline mord

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Re: Dr. Baruch Goldstein
« Reply #49 on: November 21, 2007, 01:58:29 PM »
Maybe Hitler would be addmitted to Israel,although many people with a Jewish father in the U.S. would'nt be the same as such a person from the former soviet union


You believe that nonsense that Hitler had Jewish blood?


Well i'm not sure about Hitler but i know they had Fieldmarshalls and generals who had one Jewish parent i read a book by a historian 'Hitlers Jewish Soldiers'   



http://www.bryanrigg.com/hitlers_jewish_soldiers.htm
« Last Edit: November 21, 2007, 02:06:49 PM by mord »
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
Shot at 2010-01-03