To JSullivan: When will Chaim's rules for the dating sections be ready?

[Scriabin]

This is a really interesting discussion, but with all due respect, it kinda makes me glad I am not Jewish.  But I am  married anyhow, so whatever...

Well, I guess it's only fair you feel that way. After all, we Jews thank G-d every morning in 'Birkot Hashachar' for not making us goyim, gentiles. This is how the prayer literally translates from Hebrew.

However, in prayer books with English translations, it is almost always seen as "Blessed are You…..for making me proud to fulfill my obligations as a Jew."

I'm not offended.  And I believe part of the morning blessing also says something like (please forgive me if I mess this up)......."Blessed art Thou for Thou has not made me a woman."  Some have suggested this is anti-woman...prime facie evidence of discrimination...blah, blah, blah........never pausing long enough to consider the possibility that this is a frank recognition that the observant woman has a more difficult job than a man.

My point is that righteous gentiles will not take offense, prefering instead to seek understanding of the real meaning of Judaism.  Please don't self-censor.  We'd like to understand.

I am not Jewish, but after listening to Chaim and later Rabbi Kahane, I began to discover why Jews are such brilliant people:  

Judaism.

[GentileLady]

This is a really interesting discussion, but with all due respect, it kinda makes me glad I am not Jewish.  But I am  married anyhow, so whatever...

Well, I guess it's only fair you feel that way. After all, we Jews thank G-d every morning in 'Birkot Hashachar' for not making us goyim, gentiles. This is how the prayer literally translates from Hebrew.

However, in prayer books with English translations, it is almost always seen as "Blessed are You…..for making me proud to fulfill my obligations as a Jew."

I'm not offended.  And I believe part of the morning blessing also says something like (please forgive me if I mess this up)......."Blessed art Thou for Thou has not made me a woman."  Some have suggested this is anti-woman...prime facie evidence of discrimination...blah, blah, blah........never pausing long enough to consider the possibility that this is a frank recognition that the observant woman has a more difficult job than a man.

My point is that righteous gentiles will not take offense, prefering instead to seek understanding of the real meaning of Judaism.  Please don't self-censor.  We'd like to understand.

I am not Jewish, but after listening to Chaim and later Rabbi Kahane, I began to discover why Jews are such brilliant people:  

Judaism.

Agreed.  I took a class in Jewish Law, Mishpat Ivri, and although it was very difficult,  I thoroughly enjoyed it.  It was personally enriching....not tested on the bar exam.......but very enriching.

[wonderfulgoy]

I just don't know what to do with, or what to make of, women.

Now don't get me wrong, plenty of lustful young maidens walk past me, with their long hair, their seductive smiles, they wink and they thrust forward their supple cleavages for to seduce me; and I look, and behold, their flesh is like fresh milk, their breasts are like two mountains in a grand panoramic landscape, alike to peach-topped valleys of the most splendid kind.  And their rosy cheeks are like two smitten robin-redbreasts in a summer garden, dashing about between the trees as the sun shines down and radiates everything in a golden splendour.

And, behold, the young woman is like unto a comely apple in my sight; and how I long to pluck one from the tree, and sit down by the running river, and delight in all the secret fancies of the world!

Woman is like a Revelation from on High; in fact I suspect that G-d makes His angels manifest in the flesh through the white woman.

And as I type these words, tears fall down around my own cheeks, my pale, hollow cheeks, which are so gaunt by virtue of my concupiscences.

And the young woman - what do I do with her?  What do  I say to her?  She winks at me, and beckons my head to repose in her bosom; and she longs to stroke my head, and to wrap herself around me, and to take me into another world - into another galaxy, to mine new planets and colonize new empires, to make new life, to make the stars shine on my account - but, how now?

Woman confuses me.

Yacov Menashe wrote about the girl he met who had many boyfriends.  You see, women need you for specific things at specific times - and if you play Mr Nice, you don't cut the mustard.

Women demand that you be a man - women don't care for religion as such - which is why woman, above all else, tempts man to life, to life eternal, to a million different wars for a billion different ways to say, 'I love you' ... and Satan himself smiles, and knows that between a woman's legs is the most potent incentive to life known to man, he knows the woman's seductive power, and he lures man into sensual pleasures and away from G-d ... even as a man is estranged from his parents by virtue of his conquest of women, yea, even so is man estranged from his Heavenly Father by virtue of Satan's fruits, viz, the incomparable beauty, splendour, comfort, of woman ... woman is a High Holy Angel, but also a seductress, a comely one yet also an enigma, I so long for woman, and maybe woman longs for me, but what do I say to her? ... Hashem loves me, and He refuses to let me have what I so deeply desire, which is woman, which is the warmth of her body, to lie with her and dream with her, to become a devil in sheep's clothing ... my concupiscences make a castrato out of me, I sing and I lament for the delight of other's ears ... yet I waste away and pine for lack of woman ... woman!  Oh hear, ye angels!  How could G-d have put such a thing on this Earth, the Earth was not worthy of the day woman was made!

Ah, woman!  Heaven forbid such impenetrable mystery, such sweet savour, such LIFE!

[Daniel]

I think that Chaim should check out Frumster and JDate. I've already encountered some women who share his views. I think he could find someone on one of these sites, someone who is of childbearing age.

Daniel

[MarZutra]

Would it not be logical for perhaps seeking the advice of a Rabbi within an Orthodox community.  Rabbis are very good at match making or putting the word out within a spiders web of communities for Jewish Marriages.  Perhaps Chaim might try this?  I do know my Lubavitch Rabbi has no problem with assisting in this area. 

[genteelgentile]

And this brings the discussion back full circle.  I just hope that when it comes down to it, Chaim is happy, or at least satisfied how his life is.

[adam613]

I just wanted to jump in on the comment of the blessing thank g-d for not making me a nonjew, thank g-d for not making me a women, and thank g-d for not making me a slave.

First of all, these are Rabbinic blessings and not biblical one's and since we say Rabbi's today are far from perfect even back them I'm sure they had a few flaws.

Second of all, I am a Yisrael and not a Cohen. A Cohen is at a higher level then a yisrael. How come a Cohen doesn't say a blessing thank g-d for not making me a Yisrael.  To be honest, I think the reason is because some of the Rabbi's who made these blessings were not Cohen's and they could not make a blessing that put themselves in a bad light. But since there were no women and nonjews deciding what blessings to make they had no problem making a blessing thank you for not making me a nonjew and thank you for not making me a women. Even if it was true (and I don't know if it is especially men and women from the same nation or tribe) I honestly don't think you make a blessing like this out loud and it is questionable whose role is more important. This again is especially true with men and women. Men can want children all they want if women don't want to fulfill their role there will be no children.

In terms of dating Frumster has it's problems. Chaim would have to do it all alone as the people working there are not helpful at all. The women that is suppose to help is another feminist and if you complain to her about not being concerned about the guys she will tell you that you need endless therapy. That is what she told me when I complained. And that I hate women.

There also is Saw You at Sinai which also has it's problems but there are some checks and balances in their system although the people running it some of them are not helpful but at least you have many different matchmakers on the site.

[kahaneloyalist]

Those brachos are a requirment to  be said to this day, and the reason we have these Brachot is that men (and Jews) have more Mitzvos and while this means more difficulty it also gives us more oppurtunity to be close to Hashem.

[adam613]

So a Cohen has more Mitzvahs (obligations) then a Yisrael (Noncohen) does. I am not a Cohen and certain obligations don't apply to me. How come a Cohen doesn't say a blessing thank you for not making me a Yisrael. He has more mitzvahs then a Yisrael. Please answer that.

My reasoning again is these are RABBINIC BLESSINGS. They are not biblical. And the Rabbi's didn't want to make a bracha that made themselves look bad since I am sure some of them were not Cohen's. That is why a Cohen does not say a blessing  thank you for not making me a Yisrael even though a Cohen has more Mitzvahs (obligations) and is considered more holy then a Yisrael is.

[Yochanan]

There are good Rabbis who do a lot of work in this area. What about a Shidduch, after all Chaim has quite a broad selection criteria and am sure it will not as much of an issue finding someone as at first glance.

I live in London and know a good Shidduch. They are righteous and frum people who delight in this mitzvah. Her husband is a Talmud chacham and a mohel.

If required I can find their telephone number for Chaim. There are a lot of women who are either divorced or widowed and still of childbearing age. I am sure there has to be one for Chaim. B'ezrat HaShem - hazlacha Chaim!

[kahaneloyalist]

adam, one of the Mitzvos is to obey the great Sanhedrin in any generation, those Brachot were enacted by the Sanhedrin. YOu are correct in that they are not from Hashem in fact only a very few Brachot are.

So we must obey in this regard whether or not we like their rulings

[adam613]

I guess so, Kahaneloyalist, although I would think not dong something is different then lets say marrying multiple wives which the Rabbi's prohibited at a certain point and whether we agree or not we have to obey it.

I was just saying that, yes, we are suppose to obey the sanhedrin but we shouldn't overanalysis a bracha that was made by man and not by g-d. And, yes, these blessing (not making me a women, non-jew, or slave) I don't agree with even though they were made by the Sanhedrin which we are suppose to obey even though we may disagree.

[adam613]

>There are good Rabbis who do a lot of work in this area. What about a Shidduch, after all Chaim has quite a broad selection criteria and am sure it will not as much of an issue finding someone as at first glance.

I know Chaim is very busy and at least I think it would help the cause if Chaim was married. A lot of men don't want to sacrifice because they feel they are giving up being able to be married and have some kind of family if they take too many risks. I also think some may respect Chaim more if he were married. (I guess people would respect me if I were married but that it is a whole other story.) Yeah, Chaim is almost 50 but like I said if some golddigger of 30 women marries that creep Rupert Murdoch who is 70 and had 4 children from 2 other marriages by the way, just because he has money I would think someone sooner or later would take the bad (that Chaim is almost 50 although he g- d willing has many many years left with the very good (that he is responsible for the freedom of soviet Jewry.) At least that is my view although I haven't asked Chaim but I know he has said that he regrets that he has never been married.