Yahshua (Jesus) & Judaism vs. Paul & Christianity

[azrom]

This is a great e book about taking the words of jesus over paul for anyone who is intrested


lots of good articles to:
http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/

[wonderfulgoy]

Christianity owes everything to Paul, the ex-Pharisee.

Paul was even involved in the editorial work of much of the Gospels.  He even wrote the book of Luke, even although he was never around when Jesus was alive.

Paul was the first 'televangelist', as he organized the missionary attempts to pagan Greece and formulated many Christian concepts to suit the decadent, paganistic mindset of the ancient Greeks.

Had the Europeans clung onto the traditions of ancient Greece we would never have had a Dark Age, neither would we have had crusades and a long, insufferable age of Christian intolerance, burning of heretics, Jews, witches, and millions of other innocent people.

[ftfl]

If you must attck my religion, I must defend it.

The holy trinity mentioned by paul is only a formalisation of things that had been mentioned by Jesus, Jesus had talked about himself as the messiah and son of God, and he had talked about the holy spirit as a part of God that would be sent as a helper and supporter for the church, the holy trinity is just a term used to refer to Jesus, God and the holy spirit. Nothing more.

The virgin birth was there from the start as well, the gospels were not written by paul, and they mention it.

Yes, Christianity was orriginally a sect amoung Judaism, but that was wehat it was supposed to be, it was also supposed to grow further, and it did.

Christmas trees as far as I know where a German tradition that later became mainstream.

I have no idea when Jesus was born from what I've heard certain ancient records suggest that it may have been the middle of June, the thing is, it is good to celebrate his coming into the world, and as I do not know the actual date the 25th of december is as good a day as any.

[David Ben-Ariel]

Paul/Shaul would spin in his grave if he knew some mistakenly thought he supported the pagan trinity concept or SUNday or pagan holidays pretending to be Christian! As well as other ideas that completely contradict what he actually did write, but folks wear their traditional blinders and read into his letters what they've been brainwashed to see.

Do You Prefer TRADITION Over Truth?

Sheik Palazzi and the Apostle Paul

Born Again and Heaven and Hell

Jesus Upheld Jewish Dietary Laws!

The Pharisees

Did Jesus Call Jews Children of the Devil?

The Plain Truth about Herbert W. Armstrong & the Worldwide Church of God

Hostility Against "Jewish Holidays" to be History!

[ftfl]

David, tell me what is pagan about the concept of the trinity?

[Christian Zionist]

Many Christians are ignorant about Mishna and Gemara and have false opinions about the Talmud.  Likewise many Jews are ignorant about the extent of Paul's contribution to Christianity and the doctrine of Trinity.

I am from India.  One of Jesus Christ's disciples "doubting" Thomas came to India in and preached Christianity to Indians and he was killed by radical Hindus in my state in 52 A.D.  The descendents of those early Christians who converted to Christianity by Thomas still live in India and they are called as Marthomites.  They believe in Trinity.  Thomas did not even have an opportunity to read Paul's writings.  Therefore saying that Paul introduced the concept of Trinity is not accurate.  I have been to various Christian denominations and I have never heard any reputed Christian preacher distinguishing Pauline Christianity and the Christianity before Paul. Paul wrote nearly 50% of our Christian New Testament. That is the reason many people think that Paul invented the present day Christianity.

Christian concept of Trinity comes from the mention of "Angel Of The Lord" in the Tanak.   In the Tanak one particular angel is totally different from other angels like Michael and Gabriel.  The "Angel Of The Lord" spoke in the first person instead of saying that G-d said so.  The Angel Of The Lord was worshipped and accepted it. The angel of the Lord speaks as G-d, identifies Himself with G-d, and exercises the responsibilities of G-d [Genesis 16:7-12; 21: 17-18; 22:11-18; Exodus 3:2; Judges 2:1-4; 5:23; 6:11-24; 13:3-22; 2 Samuel 24:16; Zechariah 1:12; 3:1; 12:8}. In several of these appearances, those who saw the Angel of the Lord feared for their lives because they had "seen the Lord." Therefore, it is clear that the angel of the Lord is a theophany, that is an appearance of G-d in human form. Christians believe that this "Angel Of The Lord" is Jesus and incarnated into the world in human flesh. Jesus Himself claimed that He existed before Abraham (John 8:56-59)  To worship a man as G-d is totally stupid.  For us the pre-existance of Jesus is very important.   The Angel Of The Lord could not have born to a human father and human mother.  Either He should appear in human form as He did in the Tanak or He should born of a virgin.

I know that the Jewish concept of the Angel of The Lord is different.  One of the most important reasons Jews reject Jesus as Messiah is He did not build the Holy Temple.  He also did not gather all Jews to the Land of Israel.  The Christian concept of Messiah is different.  For us Messiah pre-existed and appeared as the Angel Of The Lord and His appearance ceased after Jesus was born. Messiah's office includes King, Prophet and the High Priest.  Again these are not Paul's inventions. Even before Paul other disciples of Jesus took Christianity to other parts of the world.

Even though the Jewish theology is different from Christian Theology we are boundlessly grateful to the Jews for giving Jesus, Bible and Christianity to the world. 

Let us concentrate on bringing down the common enemy islam.

[David Ben-Ariel]

David, tell me what is pagan about the concept of the trinity?

Everything.

[Rothschild]

Paul most certainly did not write THE BOOK OF LUKE.  The author of LUKE is also the author of THE ACTS OF THE APOSTLES.  Both begin with DEAR THEOPOLIS.

[Jizzepie]

St Paul did not invent Christianity nor did he invent the divinity of Christ:

Jesus: Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my G-d!" Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have come to believe". (John 20:28-29)

Paul: From them, according to the flesh, comes the Messiah, who is over all, G-d blessed forever. (Romans 9:5)

JESUS: You call me Teacher and Lord - and you are right, for that is what I am. (John 13:13)

PAUL: There is... one Lord, Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 8:6)

JESUS: All of them asked, "Are you, then, the Son of G-d?" He said to them, "You say that I am". Then they said, "What further testimony do we need? We have heard it ourselves from his own lips!" (Luke 22:70-71)

PAUL: Immediately he began to proclaim Jesus in the synagogues, saying, "He is the Son of G-d". (Acts 9:20)

JESUS: I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. (Revelation 22:13)

PAUL: He is the beginning. (Colossians 1:18)

JESUS: G-d did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. (John 3:17)

PAUL: The saying is sure and worthy of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. (1 Timothy 1:15)

JESUS: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. (John 14:6)

PAUL: Surely you have heard about him and were taught in him, as truth is in Jesus. (Ephesians 4:21)

I don't believe that the early church was invented by St. Paul either. The Church existed long before the rest of the apostles accepted Paul as an apostle( Acts 9:1-31; 15:1-35; Galatians 1:11-24, 2:1-10; 2 Peter 3:15-16). The disciples were preaching Christ long before St Paul arrived on the scene.

The Johanne school believed in the Trinity. Polycarp says in his epistle "we also ought to forgive: for we are before the eyes of our Lord and G-d, and we must all stand at the judgment-seat of Christ"(6:2). Iranaeus says in Against Heresies "G-d, then, was made man, and the Lord did Himself save us, giving us the token of the Virgin"(3:21:1) and that "the Son, eternally co-existing with the Father, from of old, yea, from the beginning, always reveals the Father to Angels, Archangels, Powers, Virtues..."(2:30:9). Hippolytus says in Against The Heresy Of One Noetus "As far as regards the power, therefore, G-d is one. But as far as regards the economy there is a threefold manifestation, as shall be proved afterwards when we give account of the true doctrine"( 8 ). These three figures carry great apostolic authority since Hippolytus was a student of Iranaeus, who was a student of Polycarp, who was a student of St John, who was a student of Jesus. Yet all of them clearly believed in the divinity of Christ.