Proofs For Young Earth

[Christian Zionist]

1. Earth's Magnetic Field Strength is decaying by half every 1400 years, based on measurements since 1835, according to Thomas Barnes. Extrapolating backwards 10,000 years, earth's magnetic field strength would have been as strong as a magnetic star. 1 million years ago earth's magnetic field strength would be 10215 Tesla, greater than the magnetism of all objects in the universe. All this speaks of a recent creation date less than 10,000 years ago.

Source:T.G. Barnes, "Origin and Destiny of Earth's Magnetic Field",

ICR,1973,p.157

2. Earth's Heat The earth is slowly cooling from the surface inwards according to Stefan's Law of radiation. Lord Kelvin in 1889 calculated that the earth could not be billions of years old because of earth's known rate of cooling, the existing temperature gradient in the earth, and the assumption that the earth could not have been hotter than "white hot" initially.

Source: "Popular lecturers and addresses" (London: MacMillan, 1889), p.415

3. Short lived lunar isotopes Uranium 236 and Thorium 230

If the moon were of great age, these short lived isotopes would have long since decayed away. Yet they are not only present, but are in relative abundance. U-236 half life is 23.9 million years, Thorium-230 half life is 80,000 years. Thus, according to this method, the moon's age should be thousands of years, not millions or billions.

4. Poynting Robertson Effect. All stars have a gravitational field and pull in particles like gas, dust and meteors within their range. O and B type stars radiating energy 100,000 times faster than our sun have a spiralling effect, pulling particles in all the faster. The unexpected thing from an evolutionary old universe viewpoint is that huge O and B stars have huge dust clouds surrounding them. If these stars were millions of years old, every particle in close range would have been pulled in by now.

Source: J.C. Whitcomb, "Origin of the Solar System".

5. HOT "O" type stars are 10,000 times the diameter of our sun, and radiate 100,000 times more energy. Burning down at this rate, and working back in time, the entire universe would have been filled with the mass of these stars 20,000 years ago, not millions of years ago.

Source: H. Slusher, Bible-Science Newsletter, January 1975, p.2

6. Stellar Radiation Small cosmic dust particles are abundant in galactic space. Solar wind (star radiation) tends to push these particles out of the galaxy. If the universe is only a couple of million years old, calculations show that the galaxy should now be swept clean of dust. But the dust exists in abundance in interstellar space, implying a young galaxy. There is no known source of dust replenishment.

7. Delta Filling. The Mississippi river dumps about 300 million cubic metres of sediment into the Gulf of Mexico each year. If this river were millions of years old, the Gulf would have been filled long ago. Since the delta grows about 250 feet per year, it's age calculates to about 4000 years, very close to the flood 4,400 years ago.

Source: B.Allen, Geologic Age of Mississippi,

CRS Vol.9,...p.96-114

8. Hydrogen in the Universe Hydrogen is constantly being converted to Helium throughout the universe. Hydrogen cannot be produced in great quantities. If the universe were very old, by now there should be little Hydrogen left. Fred Hoyle says: "Why does the universe consist almost entirely of hydrogen? If matter was infinitely old, this would be quite impossible. The creation issue simply cannot be dodged".

Source: "The Nature of the Universe ". 1960, p.125

9. Ocean Sediment. There is not enough sediment on the sea floors. Rivers add about 28 billion tons of sediment to the oceans each year. If this had occurred for 1 billion years, the continents would have eroded away hundreds of times. There would be a layer of sediment on the ocean floor over 100 miles thick. In reality there is so much less sediment on the ocean floor (average 800 feet thick), and the continents have not eroded even once yet. All the continents would be worn down to sea level in 14 million years. Sharp angular rock features imply youthfulness.

The Tasman Sea off Australia is not part of a subduction zone of ocean floor being pushed deep into the earth. Subduction zones could not dispose of 10% of incoming sediment. Hence the sea floors seem young.

10. Rapid Stalagmite and Stalactite Formation. Today's slow growth rate of huge stalagmites and stalactites lead some people to conclude that they were formed over millions of years. However, their rate of formation depends on water flow, temperature, and lime concentrations.

This stalactite grew so fast that it encased a bat before decomposition set in. Under the Lincoln Memorial in Washington DC., stalactites had grown to 5 feet in 50 years.

Source: "The World that Perished"

J.C. Whitcomb p.114

11. Radiohaloes shorten geologic ages of millions of years to a few thousand years.

Radiohaloes are colour rings around microscopic radioactive minerals in rock crystals.

    * "Squashed" Polonium -210 radiohaloes indicate that Jurassic, Triassic and Eocene formations in the Colorado Plateau were deposited within months of one another, not from 225-255 million years apart, as evolution suggests.
    * "Orphan" Polonium-218 radiohaloes, having no evidence of their mother elements, imply either instant creation, or drastic changes in radioactive decay rates.

12. Ocean concentrations of elements flowing in from rivers. If we assume, as evolutionists must, that the oceans were 100% freshwater at the beginning of earth's history, and knowing that the rivers wash 450 million tonnes of sodium off the continents into the oceans each year, if we factor in any recycling of salt, and knowing that sodium's concentration in the oceans to be 10,500 mg/m1, then the very maximum number of years required to reach today's sodium concentration level in the oceans are 260 million years.

This means that the oceans, and hence earth could not be older than 260 million years. Most other elements give an age to accumulate to today's level as about 10,000 years. eg. Vanadium (10,000 yr), Cobalt and Nickel (18,000 yr), Copper (50,000 yr), Caesium (40,000 yr). Bismuth (45,000 yr), Calcium (8 million years), Silicon (8,000 yr) etc.

13. Igneous Crystal Build-up Knowing today's volcanic addition of igneous rocks, the entire crust of earth could be produced by volcanoes in 500 million years.

[yephora]

Excellent post, Christian Zionist. I totally concur. The theory of evolution is complete bunk and refuted by true science as you just demonstrated.

[jdl4ever]

I don't like the post.  These theories are very conjecture like made by people who don't understand science and all are laughable.  I'm sure if you speak to a real scientist, he can knock off each one of these theories in a few minutes.  In fact, I only have a college degree in chemistry and know that several of these claims are very stupid.  The real scientific proof points to a universe billions of years old and is based on real scientific data, not based on how much ocean sediment you think should be on the bottom of the ocean (wtf is this crazy idea, when sediment gets millions of years old it turns into rock).  The earth's magnetic field reverses itself ever couple of hundred thousand years (last one was at 785k years ago based on magnetic measurements of iron particles in sediment deposited 785k years ago and before that showed the particles were aligned in the opposite direction) and only transiently weakens when it is about to reverse itself, the weakening is not a steady thing.  In the past 150 years, the magnetic field has weakened 10 percent since scientists say a reversal will happen some time soon.  The weakening of the field is not steady as demonstrated by sediment measurments and navigational recordings from sailors hundreds of years ago.

Both Th-230 and U-236 can be generated through radioactive decay of U-238 -- and U-238 is not short-lived. In point of fact, the half-life of U-238 is a bit less than 4.5 billion years!    These guys should learn some basic chemistry before trying to sound intelligent.

 I won't bother with the other ridiculous claims made by dumb people who never studied science.  If you want to believe the earth is only a few thousand years old then base it on faith and not on science since there is too much scientific proof that it is not so.

[MassuhDGoodName]

I can not speak for anyone else, but the fact that one of the documented scientific articles in the aforementioned post is dated in the 1800's, IS ALL THE PROOF I NEED!

[azrom]

young earth agruments: a second look http://home.entouch.net/dmd/age.htm


more here:


http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html

[Christian Zionist]

jdl4ever:

I won't bother with the other ridiculous claims made by dumb people who never studied science.  If you want to believe the earth is only a few thousand years old then base it on faith and not on science since there is too much scientific proof that it is not so.

Exodus 20:11 - For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
Is this verse a lie? You said you do not like this post!  Do you like the verse Exodus 20:11?

Who is dumb?  The so-called scientists who support the theory of evolution are atheists, G-d hates and Bible haters.  Their aim is to attack and disprove the Bible.  How can a person believe in the Bible and the myth of evolution at the same time?

1. Hitler applied evolution, claiming that his German race with it's superior intellect and Aryan blood was best fitted to survive and control the world. He said: "The whole of nature is a continuous struggle between strength and weakness, an eternal victory of the strong over the weak". This false theory led to his and Germany's shameful defeat in 1945, thus showing the world that his philosophy was a lie, and proved the truthfulness of G-d's Word:

"The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong". Ecclesiastes 9:11.


2. Universal spread of Atheism among the educated masses. Millions of young people have lost their faith in G-d by studying Evolution theory. Huxley said: "Evolution, if consistently accepted, makes it impossible to believe the Bible".

Nietzsche said: "Neither crime, cruelty, sexuality, nor intoxication need be matters of shame or repentance". To him, Christian morality was the chief obstacle preventing the emergence of a superman.

3. Communism. Karl Marx who wrote "Das Capital", the basis of Communism, wrote to Fredrick Engels that Darwin's book "contains the basis in natural history for our views". Marx wished to dedicate his "Das Capital" to Darwin, but Darwin politely declined the offer.

Yeroslavasky, a friend of Joseph Stalin wrote of him:

"Comrad Stalin began to read Darwin and became an atheist". (Landmarks in the Life of Stalin, 1940, p.8}. Stalin killed millions of his own countrymen in World War II by confiscating Ukrainian's food.

I won't bother with the other ridiculous claims made by dumb people who never studied science
So Hitler, Marx, Stalin and Huxley are brilliant and Biblical prophets like Moses and Isaiah are dumb?

I can not speak for anyone else, but the fact that one of the documented scientific articles in the aforementioned post is dated in the 1800's, IS ALL THE PROOF I NEED!

The Tanak was completed (Divinely inspired) approximately 2000 years ago.  Was it not reliable?


Obviously the writers of the Bible who were inspired by the divine Spirit did not study science and they directly got revelation from G-d. Bible did not cause any bad social effects like evolution which inspired Marx, Stalin, Hitler and other evil men in history.

1. "In the beginning G-d created the heaven and the earth". Genesis 1:1

2. "So G-d created man in his own image, ... Male and female". Genesis 1:27

3. "The Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created ..." Genesis 6:7

4. "The day that G-d created man upon the earth". Deuteronomy 4:32

5. "Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might ....." Isaiah 40:26

6. "Hast thou not known? Hast thou not heard, that the everlasting G-d, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? There is no searching of his understanding." Isaiah 40:28

7. "I have created him (humans) for my glory". Isaiah 43:7

8. "I have made the earth, and created man upon it". Isaiah 45:12

9. "Hath not one G-d created us?" Malachi 2:10

[Christian Zionist]

young earth agruments: a second look http://home.entouch.net/dmd/age.htm


more here:


http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html

Crisis in Crater Count Dating:

http://www.icr.org/article/3139/

Articles related to Age of Universe:
http://www.icr.org/article/816/6/

Where Can We See Young-Earth Evidence?
http://www.icr.org/article/2823/



http://www.icr.org/topic/76/

[jdl4ever]

Christian Zionist, the six days menchaned in the bible are not refering to twenty four hour days as we know it.  They refer to a day from G-d's perspective which is billions of years.  Most Jews agree to this, but if you don't, I respect your opinion.  There is absolute proof of this in the bible.  Go no further than the first chapter.  Before the sun and moon were even created and G-d formed the days months and the years, the bible uses the days.  So obviously, they can not refer to 24 hour days that are governed by the sun and the moon since they were not created yet when the days were used! 
Genesis 1: 14:  "And G-d said let there be lights in the empty space of heaven to seperate between day and night and let them be for signs, for festivals and for days and years
Genesis 15:  And let the lights be in the empty space of heaven to give light onto the earth, and it was so
Genesis 16:  And G-d made the two big lights, the big light to rule over the day and the small light to rule over the night, and the stars...
........ to rule between day and night and divide between light and darkness.... and there was evening and morning a fourth day.

BUT the previous verses state that three days have already passed BEFORE the sun and moon was even created and before days even existed as stated by genesiss 1:14!  So obviously, it is impossible for the days to be 24 hour days, since the 24 hour day was only created on the fourth day of creation.  The days  are running at a different time frame, G-d's perspective. 

You have yet to bring scientific proof to your theories, you just got all mad when the claims you brought were proven wrong.  Of course G-d created everything in six days as menchaned by the bible, but the days are not 24 hour days as is clearly derived from the bible.  And just because evil people were inspired by something does not make it bad.  Many evil people were inspired by the bible to do evil since they were demented and demented people get inspired by anything. 

[Christian Zionist]

Christian Zionist, the six days menchaned in the bible are not refering to twenty four hour days as we know it.  They refer to a day from G-d's perspective which is billions of years.  Most Jews agree to this, but if you don't, I respect your opinion.  There is absolute proof of this in the bible.  Go no further than the first chapter. 

Absolute proof in the Bible?

According to Genesis 1:11-13 God created vegetation and all plants and God created the Sun and Moon on the 4th day (1:14-18).  How did plants survive without Sun light for billions of years?  What happened to Photosynthesis?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis#In_plants

How did the earth get rain  (cloud formation) without the heat from the the Sun for billions of years?

God created the animal kingdom on the fifth day (Genesis 1:20-23).  Then how did the plants reproduce?  Without insects for billions of years how did pollination happen?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollen

First of all you answer these questions to prove the Gap theory.

Why would God wait for billions of years in between the "days"?  We do not have to help God by inventing illogical theories like gap and big bang.

The mention of days does not mean days existed before.  Moses wrote them to give us a narrative about what happend during the first 6 days.

[jdl4ever]

Obviously the sun existed before the fourth day but it was not completed until the fourth day; otherwize how could the plants and animals survive.  The reason why the bible goes out of its way to tell you that when the sun was created on the fourth day then there were days and seasons is very obviously to teach us a lesson that the days are not 24 hour days (since it implies that days and seasons were not counted until that point).  This is very obvious. 

The big bang theory and basic evolutionary theory (the inteligent design version which is basically the same thing with G-d) are very logical theories and there are libraries of scientific data showing the beauty of these theories.  Did you know your DNA and mouse DNA is over 90% identical?  My father is an expert in mathematics and physics and he understands some of the mathematical beauty of the big bang theory.   Personally, I have a scientific background and understand much of the beauty of evolutionary theory since it is such a clever process that only G-d could have thought up.   If you understand these theories then you understand why G-d created the universe this way, since it is the most intelligent way to do so.  Let me ask you a question.  Is it a more economical and brilliant way to create everything in the universe seperately in millions of creationary steps; or to design a process where a tiny spec is created and from that everything in the universe until the end of time falls into place exactly the way G-d wanted it to be to the extent that where you are standing now was planned by G-d to occur at the moment he created that tiny spec to expand into the universe.  Amazing.  The powers of G-d are demonstrated by the big bang theory.  Studying science proves the existance of G-d since you see the beauty of his work.  It's not the opposite way around.   

I know the next question you will ask me.  You will ask why didn't G-d create the universe faster, instead of billions of years, why didn't he create it in 6 human days?  The answer is that time is irrelevant since from G-d's perspective there is no time.  Time is a creation of G-d and G-d created time only in this universe.  It is really artificial since before our universe was created by G-d, there was no time.  To G-d and the angels who don't live in our universe there is no such thing as time so time is completely irrelevent.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "...The Tanak was completed (Divinely inspired) approximately 2000 years ago.  Was it not reliable?..."

Oh!

Well, why didn't you say that from the very beginning of your post?

That is all I would have needed to know in order to fully accept your argument.

Case closed.

ALL ARE NOW WARNED!!!... 

Any study of, and or practice of, the scientific method, including but not limited to the following:

-the reading of books based on, or advocating, the practice of scientific methodology (repeated experimentation producing repeatable and identical results which can be documented and verified under controlled laboratory environments), as well as...

-the acquisition of, or advocacy of, any thought processes relating to germ theory, epidemiology, anatomy, physiology, biology, zoology, opthalmology, audiology, heredity, nutrition, geology, astronomy, anthropology, theology, ecology, sociology, including but not limited to those ideations having produced modern medicine, surgery, laser-optics, microwave transmission (including television, radio, internet),
computer technology, space travel and exploration, physics, chemistry, agriculture and horticulture, etc. ...,

~ARE HEREBY TO BE EXCOMMUNICATED FROM ANY AND ALL PARTICIPATION IN THE JEWISH TASK FORCE AND/OR ANY ACTIVITIES RELATED THEREOF~

UNDER PENALTY OF DEATH!

[Christian Zionist]

  Let me ask you a question.  Is it a more economical and brilliant way to create everything in the universe seperately in millions of creationary steps; or to design a process where a tiny spec is created and from that everything in the universe until the end of time falls into place exactly the way G-d wanted it to be to the extent that where you are standing now was planned by G-d to occur at the moment he created that tiny spec to expand into the universe.

Okay, you believe in the Bible of the liberals, humanists, atheists and communists.  I believe in the Bible inspired by the Divine Spirit.  Why do liberal news reporters do not report evidences against evolution? It is their agenda not to report anything against evolution, homosexuality, abortion, global warming etc. I do not trust liberals.  If some theory had inspired hitler, karl marx, stalin and other evil men I cannot believe in that.  The so called scientists are liberals and they give us biased information.

The bottom line is, you do not want to believe in the supernatural miracle working power of G-d.  I believe you also would provide "scientific" proofs  about Noah's flood, 10 plagues in Egypt, parting the red sea, Joshua stoping the Sun and Moon, Elijah ascending to heaven in fiery chariots, Ezekiel's suprenatural visions etc. 

One more important thing about the evolutionists is they focus attacking only the Bible and not the muslim Koran.  They avoid attacking Islam and concentrate on Judaism and Christianity.  This is how the mind of an evolutionist works. You were unhappy and expressed your displeasure when I posted that pig pictures thread.  But when it comes to the truth of Torah you do not want to defend it but try to compromise the Torah truth with the beliefs of liberals.

Here is your reply to my post in the Islam section:

http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?PHPSESSID=e8990dd54dad6fe629a0847b81a42d2d&topic=752.msg6695#msg6695

[jdl4ever]

Christian Zionist, all of your arguments have absolutely zero logical structure to them.  When I argued with you I logically defended my position by bringing excellent proof from the bible and I clearly debunked some of your fake scientific arguements for being wrong.  All you bring to counter my arguments is calling me an evil athiest liberal since I don't accept your interpuitation.  Name calling is not a logical argument.  I am still waiting for that scientific proof of the young earth since so far you provided silly claims.   The so called expert that said the moon has young radioactive isotopes did not know basic high school chemistry that these isotopes are made from radioactive decay of long lived isotopes.  What more do you want?

Just because liberals study science does not mean that it is false.  Richeous people are also scientists. Would you not take your child to get vaccinated against hepatitis A because it was achieved through scientific discovery?  I do believe that the flood happened since I believe that the bible is the word of G-d so it must have happened and I do believe there is scientific proof of it occuring.  I saw an episode on channel 13 about this a while ago.  I also don't appreciate you calling me a muslim lover or an athiest since I am a richeous orthodox Jew who believes in Judaism, G-d and the bible and I do not like muslims. 

By the way, the theory of an old earth is not new.  Over a thousand years ago there existed a few ancient jewish commentaries that stated that our world was not the first world and one day to G-d is like a thousand of our years etc.  Rashi (10th century) even says that G-d created everything on the first day and put everything into place afterwards (this is exactly like the big bang theory).  Maimonites said that the biblical account of creation is allegorical and the real meaning is a deep secret which no one can completely understand and this is derived from the talmud.

[Muck DeFuslims]

Anyone that believes the Earth is less than 10,000 years (as measured by man's perspective on planet Earth) old is ignorant.
If you believe the universe is less than 10,000 years old you're a fool.

A thorough, comprehensive understanding of Genesis as depicted in the Bible indicates the universe is approximately 16 billion years old.

The account of creation in Genesis doesn't contradict modern science's version or timetable of creation, it supports it.

Don't take my word for it.
Take the word of the Rambam, Ramban and other sages.
Take the word of reknown physicist and religious Jew, Dr. Gerald Schroeder.

Listen and learn for yourself:
mms://ra.colo.idt.net/simpletoremember/misc/Dr_Gerald_Schroeder-Genesis_and_the_Big_Bang.mp3

[yephora]

Jewish opinion, no matter how revered, is not divinely inspired. Only the Bible (not ‘bible’) is.

[jdl4ever]

Cohanaechai, in my experience over 90% of Misnagdim believe the earth is billions of years old and if you speak to most educated Charedim who went to college, half of them would tell you the same.  You are the marginal group, not me.  The Catholics though mostly believe that it is not billions of years old in my experience. 

[azrom]

I am a christian. I agree with jdl4ever about the earth being billions of years old. I don't agree with darwinism though.

[jdl4ever]

well i wont argue with your impressions about the orthodox.

but tell me, what about the midrashic teaching that the world would only last for 6000 years, followed by 1000 years of rest?

The midrash has many different opinions, many of which contradict.  One such opinion states that there were several worlds in existance before our world and another one says that at first G-d created a world with only judgement and destroyed it because the world needed mercy as well or everyone would suffer immediate retribution and die.  The quote you brought has nothing to do with anything since who says it is starting from creation, maybee it's starting from the end of creation when man was formed.

[jdl4ever]

i agree. (by the way, explain how you can put a quote in a text box?).

but if the 6000 years refer to since man's creation, then that alone would disprove evolution, since they say men have existed for millions of years! 

I'm sure you can figure this one out.  Modern man may have been around for millions of years, but Adam was special and he was the first biblically modern man.  Biblically, before Adam, ancient man was considred animals like apes and Adam was the first real man.  Either you can say that Adam was a separate creation because G-d gave him a soul (but physically was no different than ancient man living at that time) which I like OR you can say that Adam was somehow a unique evolutionary product that the bible considered to be a separate creation called man.  You can also combine the two into one belief and put some spin on it.   For example, all of ancient man was created by G-d to eventually evolve into Adam.  When he evolved, the language gene was formed and he had a mental capacity above any of his precursors.  Then G-d gave him a soul and he was became a new person since no creature had a soul.   Maybee all others similar to Adam died out so he was the only one at his time and could not find a mate.