What Do You Think Of Pre-Marital Intimacy And/Or Touching?

[Dr. Dan]

It's no fair to the woman if a man touches her because he gets sexual enjoyment from touching her. I will not shake an attractive woman's hand because I don't want to use her for enjoyment and because it is a sin to have such enjoyment from a woman other than my wife.

I didn't realize men thought of sex when they shook someone's hand.

What concerns me is that women would be the ones being disadvantaged professionally because much of the business world is male and much of the medical profession is male. So if you're a female businessperson or doctor and you can't shake hands with a colleague or examine someone of the opposite gender then you're going to be severely disadvantaged compared to your male counterparts.

Don't worry rubystars..I don't think of sex when a shake a woman's hand...However, if i"M holding my girlfriend's hand and we come across haredi or any yamulka wearing jew, we let go of each other out of respect.

I never said that men think of sex when shaking a woman's hand. I said they feel a sexually pleasureful feeling in their body. It is a body reaction, not a thought.

A rather broad generalization I think............

Perhaps for a guy who is never around women and barely dates that might be true.

Well Jewish men are not allowed to kiss women before marriage so any physical contact with a woman can be a sexual experience.

I have a problem with this theology. It makes no sense to me.  If a Jewish man is technically not supposed to kiss a woman before marraige then what stops him from having sex which is really "eating from from the tree of knowledge"...and kissing simply means "touching that fruit."

The idea of not kissing a woman before marraige is a fence that is built around the Torah. To all those who can uphold that rule, my blessings to them...But certainly, kissing is not sex...

[Dr. Dan]

It's no fair to the woman if a man touches her because he gets sexual enjoyment from touching her. I will not shake an attractive woman's hand because I don't want to use her for enjoyment and because it is a sin to have such enjoyment from a woman other than my wife.

I didn't realize men thought of sex when they shook someone's hand.

What concerns me is that women would be the ones being disadvantaged professionally because much of the business world is male and much of the medical profession is male. So if you're a female businessperson or doctor and you can't shake hands with a colleague or examine someone of the opposite gender then you're going to be severely disadvantaged compared to your male counterparts.

Don't worry rubystars..I don't think of sex when a shake a woman's hand...However, if i"M holding my girlfriend's hand and we come across haredi or any yamulka wearing jew, we let go of each other out of respect.

I never said that men think of sex when shaking a woman's hand. I said they feel a sexually pleasureful feeling in their body. It is a body reaction, not a thought.

A rather broad generalization I think............

Perhaps for a guy who is never around women and barely dates that might be true.

Well Jewish men are not allowed to kiss women before marriage so any physical contact with a woman can be a sexual experience.

No, a sexual experience is having sex, not for example shaking a womans hand. Thinking about sex isn't a sexual experience either.

But if I shake a very attractive woman's hand, I will get a sexual feeling in my body. So therefore I refrain from doing so.

What if you look at an attractive women and have sexual feelings as a result; would you ban looking at attractive women? This is likely the origin of the dress code amongst muslime women.

According to Judaism, you're not supposed to gaze at a woman's beauty unless the intent is marriage and then you can even smile at her. So Judaism already banned it although I personally only refrain from touching. Men listening to women sing is also banned in Judaism but I don't obey by that either.

last i checked, Judaism didn't ban any of those things...Simply, certain rabbis urged fellow Jews to avoid these things..but to ban them? hahahaha...it's not Judaism..not the Torah that I understand...nor the Gd i know.  Nor the compassion we are supposed to have for life...So, no, this isn't the Torah I know and loved and grew up with..But feel free from banning yourself from these things if it is going to lead you to sin.

So to clarify..there is no ban, but recommendations.  I understand them and it makes sense...things like gazing at a very attractive woman is something that for me can be avoided out of respect for my wife...so i want you to understand that i appreciate these recommendations...but they definately aren't bans.

[Dr. Dan]

It's no fair to the woman if a man touches her because he gets sexual enjoyment from touching her. I will not shake an attractive woman's hand because I don't want to use her for enjoyment and because it is a sin to have such enjoyment from a woman other than my wife.

I didn't realize men thought of sex when they shook someone's hand.

What concerns me is that women would be the ones being disadvantaged professionally because much of the business world is male and much of the medical profession is male. So if you're a female businessperson or doctor and you can't shake hands with a colleague or examine someone of the opposite gender then you're going to be severely disadvantaged compared to your male counterparts.

Don't worry rubystars..I don't think of sex when a shake a woman's hand...However, if i"M holding my girlfriend's hand and we come across haredi or any yamulka wearing jew, we let go of each other out of respect.

I never said that men think of sex when shaking a woman's hand. I said they feel a sexually pleasureful feeling in their body. It is a body reaction, not a thought.

A rather broad generalization I think............

Perhaps for a guy who is never around women and barely dates that might be true.

Well Jewish men are not allowed to kiss women before marriage so any physical contact with a woman can be a sexual experience.

I have a problem with this theology. It makes no sense to me.  If a Jewish man is technically not supposed to kiss a woman before marraige then what stops him from having sex which is really "eating from from the tree of knowledge"...and kissing simply means "touching that fruit."

The idea of not kissing a woman before marraige is a fence that is built around the Torah. To all those who can uphold that rule, my blessings to them...But certainly, kissing is not sex...

Kissing can be as pleasureful as sex. You can get the same feeling in your body without having intercourse. Kissing is mouth sex and therefore is wrong before marriage.

therefore, if one kisses, then he might as well have actual intercourse...I think when the Rabbis discussed this, they knew better than to say that both were equal...it's not very rabbinical to me.  Rather, the rabbis would say, Kissing can lead to sex and tehrefore it is recommended to avoid that kind of contact in order to prevent the actual sin.  But Kissing...no it's not sex...otherwise well...we would all be sluts by now wouldn't we?

[Zelhar]

Judaism actually allows sex without marriage, it is permissible for a man to have a Pilegesh, and it is permissible for a woman to be a man's pilegesh.

[DownwithIslam]

Yacov, it will be pretty hard to find jewish girls that have no been immoral. Even many religious ones are involved in promiscuity. This is not only a male problem but a female one as well. In todays world, you are thinking about a perfect situation which doesnt happen often. I am sure you are right that it would be better if people were more moral.

[Zelhar]

Judaism actually allows sex without marriage, it is permissible for a man to have a Pilegesh, and it is permissible for a woman to be a man's pilegesh.

But a modern day girlfriend is not a pilegesh.

It's true. However Jews that are in the process of teshuva, or just can't stop themselves and yet fear of sinful behaviour could implement the pilegesh solution which is better than a hasty marriage.

[DownwithIslam]

Yacov, it will be pretty hard to find jewish girls that have no been immoral. Even many religious ones are involved in promiscuity. This is not only a male problem but a female one as well. In todays world, you are thinking about a perfect situation which doesnt happen often. I am sure you are right that it would be better if people were more moral.

I don't care what she did as long as she's a virgin. I've kissed girls on the cheek in the past too and I've hugged and slow danced with them so I'm not perfect either but now I refrain from that. But never did I have sex and I expect that from a wife too. I've never kissed a girl on the lips but I'm willing to marry a woman who has kissed a man on the lips in the past.

Yacov, I am pretty certain that by todays standards, you are pretty much perfect as your life has been very moral till now. As far as finding a girl like that, you will need to go to a chasidic home to find it. Most women cant be qualified as such past the age of 15. Even in the religious world, it will be hard to find what you are looking for. You may want to lower the standard as it is hard to find perfection.

[DownwithIslam]

There are Modern Orthodox Machmir women that are also Shomrot Negiah. All I want in a woman is that she be religious, a virgin, attractive, no multiple piercings (One earring in each ear only.), and no tattoos. I prefer a woman with brown hair and blue or green eyes but it's not required but only extra. I'm not going to reject a woman because she has brown eyes. My girlfriend when I was 13 had blonde hair but now I don't want a blonde wife.

Yacov, you are setting your standards too high for any regular person. What you are asking for is basically perfection. Most girls that are attractive will not be virgins. I am being honest with you.

[White Israelite]

There are Modern Orthodox Machmir women that are also Shomrot Negiah. All I want in a woman is that she be religious, a virgin, attractive, no multiple piercings (One earring in each ear only.), and no tattoos. I prefer a woman with brown hair and blue or green eyes but it's not required but only extra. I'm not going to reject a woman because she has brown eyes. My girlfriend when I was 13 had blonde hair but now I don't want a blonde wife.

Yacov, you are setting your standards too high for any regular person. What you are asking for is basically perfection. Most girls that are attractive will not be virgins. I am being honest with you.

Won't disagree with that.

[Dr. Dan]

There are Modern Orthodox Machmir women that are also Shomrot Negiah. All I want in a woman is that she be religious, a virgin, attractive, no multiple piercings (One earring in each ear only.), and no tattoos. I prefer a woman with brown hair and blue or green eyes but it's not required but only extra. I'm not going to reject a woman because she has brown eyes. My girlfriend when I was 13 had blonde hair but now I don't want a blonde wife.

yaacov, i pray for you and wish you all the luck to find that perfect match...bless you!

[White Israelite]

It's no fair to the woman if a man touches her because he gets sexual enjoyment from touching her. I will not shake an attractive woman's hand because I don't want to use her for enjoyment and because it is a sin to have such enjoyment from a woman other than my wife.

I didn't realize men thought of sex when they shook someone's hand.

What concerns me is that women would be the ones being disadvantaged professionally because much of the business world is male and much of the medical profession is male. So if you're a female businessperson or doctor and you can't shake hands with a colleague or examine someone of the opposite gender then you're going to be severely disadvantaged compared to your male counterparts.

Don't worry rubystars..I don't think of sex when a shake a woman's hand...However, if i"M holding my girlfriend's hand and we come across haredi or any yamulka wearing jew, we let go of each other out of respect.

I never said that men think of sex when shaking a woman's hand. I said they feel a sexually pleasureful feeling in their body. It is a body reaction, not a thought.

A rather broad generalization I think............

Perhaps for a guy who is never around women and barely dates that might be true.

Well Jewish men are not allowed to kiss women before marriage so any physical contact with a woman can be a sexual experience.

I have a problem with this theology. It makes no sense to me.  If a Jewish man is technically not supposed to kiss a woman before marraige then what stops him from having sex which is really "eating from from the tree of knowledge"...and kissing simply means "touching that fruit."

The idea of not kissing a woman before marraige is a fence that is built around the Torah. To all those who can uphold that rule, my blessings to them...But certainly, kissing is not sex...

Kissing can be as pleasureful as sex. You can get the same feeling in your body without having intercourse. Kissing is mouth sex and therefore is wrong before marriage.

I don't think kissing is mouth sex as it doesn't constitute as a sexual organ. Scripture forbids wasting of the seed but I don't recall anything about kissing.

[Dr. Dan]

It's no fair to the woman if a man touches her because he gets sexual enjoyment from touching her. I will not shake an attractive woman's hand because I don't want to use her for enjoyment and because it is a sin to have such enjoyment from a woman other than my wife.

I didn't realize men thought of sex when they shook someone's hand.

What concerns me is that women would be the ones being disadvantaged professionally because much of the business world is male and much of the medical profession is male. So if you're a female businessperson or doctor and you can't shake hands with a colleague or examine someone of the opposite gender then you're going to be severely disadvantaged compared to your male counterparts.

Don't worry rubystars..I don't think of sex when a shake a woman's hand...However, if i"M holding my girlfriend's hand and we come across haredi or any yamulka wearing jew, we let go of each other out of respect.

I never said that men think of sex when shaking a woman's hand. I said they feel a sexually pleasureful feeling in their body. It is a body reaction, not a thought.

A rather broad generalization I think............

Perhaps for a guy who is never around women and barely dates that might be true.

Well Jewish men are not allowed to kiss women before marriage so any physical contact with a woman can be a sexual experience.

I have a problem with this theology. It makes no sense to me.  If a Jewish man is technically not supposed to kiss a woman before marraige then what stops him from having sex which is really "eating from from the tree of knowledge"...and kissing simply means "touching that fruit."

The idea of not kissing a woman before marraige is a fence that is built around the Torah. To all those who can uphold that rule, my blessings to them...But certainly, kissing is not sex...

Kissing can be as pleasureful as sex. You can get the same feeling in your body without having intercourse. Kissing is mouth sex and therefore is wrong before marriage.

I don't think kissing is mouth sex as it doesn't constitute as a sexual organ. Scripture forbids wasting of the seed but I don't recall anything about kissing.

It's possible that kissing can lead to the wasting of seed due to the pleasureful feeling of the kissing and I have heard of such a case. I asked a rabbi on Ask Moses about that and he said if it is an issue in a marriage, then the husband should only kiss his wife while having intercourse.

Listen..i have a lot of respect for those who wish to wait till they get married before they kiss...And i agree 100% that kissing can lead to other unholy things. THerefore, i respect those who feel they are weak on this account and prefer to wait. However, this "fence" is not a commandment..it is a matter of choice for a Jew who feels he needs this safeguard from sinning.  Not all will kiss and feel like wasthing his seed or going further to have sex.  But some men are very weak and they should follow this prohibition if it is important to them to not have sex before marraige or simply masturbate.

[White Israelite]

It's no fair to the woman if a man touches her because he gets sexual enjoyment from touching her. I will not shake an attractive woman's hand because I don't want to use her for enjoyment and because it is a sin to have such enjoyment from a woman other than my wife.

I didn't realize men thought of sex when they shook someone's hand.

What concerns me is that women would be the ones being disadvantaged professionally because much of the business world is male and much of the medical profession is male. So if you're a female businessperson or doctor and you can't shake hands with a colleague or examine someone of the opposite gender then you're going to be severely disadvantaged compared to your male counterparts.

Don't worry rubystars..I don't think of sex when a shake a woman's hand...However, if i"M holding my girlfriend's hand and we come across haredi or any yamulka wearing jew, we let go of each other out of respect.

I never said that men think of sex when shaking a woman's hand. I said they feel a sexually pleasureful feeling in their body. It is a body reaction, not a thought.

A rather broad generalization I think............

Perhaps for a guy who is never around women and barely dates that might be true.

Well Jewish men are not allowed to kiss women before marriage so any physical contact with a woman can be a sexual experience.

I have a problem with this theology. It makes no sense to me.  If a Jewish man is technically not supposed to kiss a woman before marraige then what stops him from having sex which is really "eating from from the tree of knowledge"...and kissing simply means "touching that fruit."

The idea of not kissing a woman before marraige is a fence that is built around the Torah. To all those who can uphold that rule, my blessings to them...But certainly, kissing is not sex...

Kissing can be as pleasureful as sex. You can get the same feeling in your body without having intercourse. Kissing is mouth sex and therefore is wrong before marriage.

I don't think kissing is mouth sex as it doesn't constitute as a sexual organ. Scripture forbids wasting of the seed but I don't recall anything about kissing.

It's possible that kissing can lead to the wasting of seed due to the pleasureful feeling of the kissing and I have heard of such a case. I asked a rabbi on Ask Moses about that and he said if it is an issue in a marriage, then the husband should only kiss his wife while having intercourse.

Listen..i have a lot of respect for those who wish to wait till they get married before they kiss...And i agree 100% that kissing can lead to other unholy things. THerefore, i respect those who feel they are weak on this account and prefer to wait. However, this "fence" is not a commandment..it is a matter of choice for a Jew who feels he needs this safeguard from sinning.  Not all will kiss and feel like wasthing his seed or going further to have sex.  But some men are very weak and they should follow this prohibition if it is important to them to not have sex before marraige or simply masturbate.

If I recall, masturbation is also against Judaism. Some have said it's worse than murder.

[White Israelite]

It's no fair to the woman if a man touches her because he gets sexual enjoyment from touching her. I will not shake an attractive woman's hand because I don't want to use her for enjoyment and because it is a sin to have such enjoyment from a woman other than my wife.

I didn't realize men thought of sex when they shook someone's hand.

What concerns me is that women would be the ones being disadvantaged professionally because much of the business world is male and much of the medical profession is male. So if you're a female businessperson or doctor and you can't shake hands with a colleague or examine someone of the opposite gender then you're going to be severely disadvantaged compared to your male counterparts.

Don't worry rubystars..I don't think of sex when a shake a woman's hand...However, if i"M holding my girlfriend's hand and we come across haredi or any yamulka wearing jew, we let go of each other out of respect.

I never said that men think of sex when shaking a woman's hand. I said they feel a sexually pleasureful feeling in their body. It is a body reaction, not a thought.

A rather broad generalization I think............

Perhaps for a guy who is never around women and barely dates that might be true.

Well Jewish men are not allowed to kiss women before marriage so any physical contact with a woman can be a sexual experience.

I have a problem with this theology. It makes no sense to me.  If a Jewish man is technically not supposed to kiss a woman before marraige then what stops him from having sex which is really "eating from from the tree of knowledge"...and kissing simply means "touching that fruit."

The idea of not kissing a woman before marraige is a fence that is built around the Torah. To all those who can uphold that rule, my blessings to them...But certainly, kissing is not sex...

Kissing can be as pleasureful as sex. You can get the same feeling in your body without having intercourse. Kissing is mouth sex and therefore is wrong before marriage.

I don't think kissing is mouth sex as it doesn't constitute as a sexual organ. Scripture forbids wasting of the seed but I don't recall anything about kissing.

It's possible that kissing can lead to the wasting of seed due to the pleasureful feeling of the kissing and I have heard of such a case. I asked a rabbi on Ask Moses about that and he said if it is an issue in a marriage, then the husband should only kiss his wife while having intercourse.

Listen..i have a lot of respect for those who wish to wait till they get married before they kiss...And i agree 100% that kissing can lead to other unholy things. THerefore, i respect those who feel they are weak on this account and prefer to wait. However, this "fence" is not a commandment..it is a matter of choice for a Jew who feels he needs this safeguard from sinning.  Not all will kiss and feel like wasthing his seed or going further to have sex.  But some men are very weak and they should follow this prohibition if it is important to them to not have sex before marraige or simply masturbate.

Masturbation is worse than pre-marital kissing. It always wastes seed while pre-marital kissing doesn't always waste seed. When I said kissing can waste seed, I meant that it comes out by itself while kissing because of the sexual feeling involved with the kiss. I didn't mean that there was any below the waste contact between the two. Someone told me that this happened to him the first and only time time he kissed a woman.

I guess if their like making out or passionate kissing, but if it's a simple kiss, I don't see how it could cause someone to make a mess of themselves. This is a very odd discussion.

[DownwithIslam]

It's no fair to the woman if a man touches her because he gets sexual enjoyment from touching her. I will not shake an attractive woman's hand because I don't want to use her for enjoyment and because it is a sin to have such enjoyment from a woman other than my wife.

I didn't realize men thought of sex when they shook someone's hand.

What concerns me is that women would be the ones being disadvantaged professionally because much of the business world is male and much of the medical profession is male. So if you're a female businessperson or doctor and you can't shake hands with a colleague or examine someone of the opposite gender then you're going to be severely disadvantaged compared to your male counterparts.

Don't worry rubystars..I don't think of sex when a shake a woman's hand...However, if i"M holding my girlfriend's hand and we come across haredi or any yamulka wearing jew, we let go of each other out of respect.

I never said that men think of sex when shaking a woman's hand. I said they feel a sexually pleasureful feeling in their body. It is a body reaction, not a thought.

A rather broad generalization I think............

Perhaps for a guy who is never around women and barely dates that might be true.

Well Jewish men are not allowed to kiss women before marriage so any physical contact with a woman can be a sexual experience.

I have a problem with this theology. It makes no sense to me.  If a Jewish man is technically not supposed to kiss a woman before marraige then what stops him from having sex which is really "eating from from the tree of knowledge"...and kissing simply means "touching that fruit."

The idea of not kissing a woman before marraige is a fence that is built around the Torah. To all those who can uphold that rule, my blessings to them...But certainly, kissing is not sex...

Kissing can be as pleasureful as sex. You can get the same feeling in your body without having intercourse. Kissing is mouth sex and therefore is wrong before marriage.

I don't think kissing is mouth sex as it doesn't constitute as a sexual organ. Scripture forbids wasting of the seed but I don't recall anything about kissing.

It's possible that kissing can lead to the wasting of seed due to the pleasureful feeling of the kissing and I have heard of such a case. I asked a rabbi on Ask Moses about that and he said if it is an issue in a marriage, then the husband should only kiss his wife while having intercourse.

Listen..i have a lot of respect for those who wish to wait till they get married before they kiss...And i agree 100% that kissing can lead to other unholy things. THerefore, i respect those who feel they are weak on this account and prefer to wait. However, this "fence" is not a commandment..it is a matter of choice for a Jew who feels he needs this safeguard from sinning.  Not all will kiss and feel like wasthing his seed or going further to have sex.  But some men are very weak and they should follow this prohibition if it is important to them to not have sex before marraige or simply masturbate.

If I recall, masturbation is also against Judaism. Some have said it's worse than murder.

Meir, you are not correct there. It is a sin but Murdering another person is a capital crime according to judaism. You can repent for waisting seed but you cannot bring a human back.

[Dr. Dan]

It's no fair to the woman if a man touches her because he gets sexual enjoyment from touching her. I will not shake an attractive woman's hand because I don't want to use her for enjoyment and because it is a sin to have such enjoyment from a woman other than my wife.

I didn't realize men thought of sex when they shook someone's hand.

What concerns me is that women would be the ones being disadvantaged professionally because much of the business world is male and much of the medical profession is male. So if you're a female businessperson or doctor and you can't shake hands with a colleague or examine someone of the opposite gender then you're going to be severely disadvantaged compared to your male counterparts.

Don't worry rubystars..I don't think of sex when a shake a woman's hand...However, if i"M holding my girlfriend's hand and we come across haredi or any yamulka wearing jew, we let go of each other out of respect.

I never said that men think of sex when shaking a woman's hand. I said they feel a sexually pleasureful feeling in their body. It is a body reaction, not a thought.

A rather broad generalization I think............

Perhaps for a guy who is never around women and barely dates that might be true.

Well Jewish men are not allowed to kiss women before marriage so any physical contact with a woman can be a sexual experience.

I have a problem with this theology. It makes no sense to me.  If a Jewish man is technically not supposed to kiss a woman before marraige then what stops him from having sex which is really "eating from from the tree of knowledge"...and kissing simply means "touching that fruit."

The idea of not kissing a woman before marraige is a fence that is built around the Torah. To all those who can uphold that rule, my blessings to them...But certainly, kissing is not sex...

Kissing can be as pleasureful as sex. You can get the same feeling in your body without having intercourse. Kissing is mouth sex and therefore is wrong before marriage.

I don't think kissing is mouth sex as it doesn't constitute as a sexual organ. Scripture forbids wasting of the seed but I don't recall anything about kissing.

It's possible that kissing can lead to the wasting of seed due to the pleasureful feeling of the kissing and I have heard of such a case. I asked a rabbi on Ask Moses about that and he said if it is an issue in a marriage, then the husband should only kiss his wife while having intercourse.

Listen..i have a lot of respect for those who wish to wait till they get married before they kiss...And i agree 100% that kissing can lead to other unholy things. THerefore, i respect those who feel they are weak on this account and prefer to wait. However, this "fence" is not a commandment..it is a matter of choice for a Jew who feels he needs this safeguard from sinning.  Not all will kiss and feel like wasthing his seed or going further to have sex.  But some men are very weak and they should follow this prohibition if it is important to them to not have sex before marraige or simply masturbate.

Masturbation is worse than pre-marital kissing. It always wastes seed while pre-marital kissing doesn't always waste seed. When I said kissing can waste seed, I meant that it comes out by itself while kissing because of the sexual feeling involved with the kiss. I didn't mean that there was any below the waste contact between the two. Someone told me that this happened to him the first and only time time he kissed a woman.

Yaacov..i know what you meant. the sexual feeling of a kiss might make a man want to masturbate afterwards..I get it...

[Dr. Dan]

It's no fair to the woman if a man touches her because he gets sexual enjoyment from touching her. I will not shake an attractive woman's hand because I don't want to use her for enjoyment and because it is a sin to have such enjoyment from a woman other than my wife.

I didn't realize men thought of sex when they shook someone's hand.

What concerns me is that women would be the ones being disadvantaged professionally because much of the business world is male and much of the medical profession is male. So if you're a female businessperson or doctor and you can't shake hands with a colleague or examine someone of the opposite gender then you're going to be severely disadvantaged compared to your male counterparts.

Don't worry rubystars..I don't think of sex when a shake a woman's hand...However, if i"M holding my girlfriend's hand and we come across haredi or any yamulka wearing jew, we let go of each other out of respect.

I never said that men think of sex when shaking a woman's hand. I said they feel a sexually pleasureful feeling in their body. It is a body reaction, not a thought.

A rather broad generalization I think............

Perhaps for a guy who is never around women and barely dates that might be true.

Well Jewish men are not allowed to kiss women before marriage so any physical contact with a woman can be a sexual experience.

I have a problem with this theology. It makes no sense to me.  If a Jewish man is technically not supposed to kiss a woman before marraige then what stops him from having sex which is really "eating from from the tree of knowledge"...and kissing simply means "touching that fruit."

The idea of not kissing a woman before marraige is a fence that is built around the Torah. To all those who can uphold that rule, my blessings to them...But certainly, kissing is not sex...

Kissing can be as pleasureful as sex. You can get the same feeling in your body without having intercourse. Kissing is mouth sex and therefore is wrong before marriage.

I don't think kissing is mouth sex as it doesn't constitute as a sexual organ. Scripture forbids wasting of the seed but I don't recall anything about kissing.

It's possible that kissing can lead to the wasting of seed due to the pleasureful feeling of the kissing and I have heard of such a case. I asked a rabbi on Ask Moses about that and he said if it is an issue in a marriage, then the husband should only kiss his wife while having intercourse.

Listen..i have a lot of respect for those who wish to wait till they get married before they kiss...And i agree 100% that kissing can lead to other unholy things. THerefore, i respect those who feel they are weak on this account and prefer to wait. However, this "fence" is not a commandment..it is a matter of choice for a Jew who feels he needs this safeguard from sinning.  Not all will kiss and feel like wasthing his seed or going further to have sex.  But some men are very weak and they should follow this prohibition if it is important to them to not have sex before marraige or simply masturbate.

If I recall, masturbation is also against Judaism. Some have said it's worse than murder.

If masturbation is worse than murder then I might as well kill a handful of people I don't like, Gd forbid...there is no Jewish theological logic to that.  I'm not condoning masturbation by all means...however...it definately isn't worse than murder...and certainly it is a terrible terrible sin if a husband purposely withdraws when his wife wants to bear children.

[Archie]

I got a question for you...

If the ''girl'' did something to you, but, you didn't do it back, did you technically commit a sin?

When I go to my hairdresser, she clips my hair very short, and then she shampoo my head to remove all the little cut hairs.

It's part of the procedure. I mean, I never touch her, but she touches me...

This whole hair washing thing feel frikkin good. It's not a sexual feeling per se, but, I enjoy it a lot.

I'm I commiting a sin?

[Dr. Dan]

It's no fair to the woman if a man touches her because he gets sexual enjoyment from touching her. I will not shake an attractive woman's hand because I don't want to use her for enjoyment and because it is a sin to have such enjoyment from a woman other than my wife.

I didn't realize men thought of sex when they shook someone's hand.

What concerns me is that women would be the ones being disadvantaged professionally because much of the business world is male and much of the medical profession is male. So if you're a female businessperson or doctor and you can't shake hands with a colleague or examine someone of the opposite gender then you're going to be severely disadvantaged compared to your male counterparts.

Don't worry rubystars..I don't think of sex when a shake a woman's hand...However, if i"M holding my girlfriend's hand and we come across haredi or any yamulka wearing jew, we let go of each other out of respect.

I never said that men think of sex when shaking a woman's hand. I said they feel a sexually pleasureful feeling in their body. It is a body reaction, not a thought.

A rather broad generalization I think............

Perhaps for a guy who is never around women and barely dates that might be true.

Well Jewish men are not allowed to kiss women before marriage so any physical contact with a woman can be a sexual experience.

I have a problem with this theology. It makes no sense to me.  If a Jewish man is technically not supposed to kiss a woman before marraige then what stops him from having sex which is really "eating from from the tree of knowledge"...and kissing simply means "touching that fruit."

The idea of not kissing a woman before marraige is a fence that is built around the Torah. To all those who can uphold that rule, my blessings to them...But certainly, kissing is not sex...

Kissing can be as pleasureful as sex. You can get the same feeling in your body without having intercourse. Kissing is mouth sex and therefore is wrong before marriage.

I don't think kissing is mouth sex as it doesn't constitute as a sexual organ. Scripture forbids wasting of the seed but I don't recall anything about kissing.

It's possible that kissing can lead to the wasting of seed due to the pleasureful feeling of the kissing and I have heard of such a case. I asked a rabbi on Ask Moses about that and he said if it is an issue in a marriage, then the husband should only kiss his wife while having intercourse.

Listen..i have a lot of respect for those who wish to wait till they get married before they kiss...And i agree 100% that kissing can lead to other unholy things. THerefore, i respect those who feel they are weak on this account and prefer to wait. However, this "fence" is not a commandment..it is a matter of choice for a Jew who feels he needs this safeguard from sinning.  Not all will kiss and feel like wasthing his seed or going further to have sex.  But some men are very weak and they should follow this prohibition if it is important to them to not have sex before marraige or simply masturbate.

Masturbation is worse than pre-marital kissing. It always wastes seed while pre-marital kissing doesn't always waste seed. When I said kissing can waste seed, I meant that it comes out by itself while kissing because of the sexual feeling involved with the kiss. I didn't mean that there was any below the waste contact between the two. Someone told me that this happened to him the first and only time time he kissed a woman.

Yaacov..i know what you meant. the sexual feeling of a kiss might make a man want to masturbate afterwards..I get it...

You still don't get it. You're a man. You should know how men's bodies work. I'm saying the kiss itself would cause the seed to spill during the kiss. Why masturbate when he is touching a woman's body? The feeling of touching a woman's body without wasting seed is more sexually satisfying than wasting seed by yourself  without a woman.

When I was 13, I had a girlfriend in Israel and it was the greatest feeling in The World just to hug her and kiss her on the cheek. I also slow danced with a girl when I was 16. The only feelings that can surpass the feelings of hugging a woman are to French Kiss or to have sex, neither of which I have done, Baruch Hashem, but I can only imagine how turned on I would feel from kissing a woman on the lips. But all I can do is dream about the day I'll do it. Even if I was not against doing it before marriage, I also could only dream about it. It is not something realistic at this point in my life and it never has been. I thought I would get to do it with my French Internet girlfriend when I was 18 but she returned to her old boyfriend before we ever met and I only got to kiss her on the cheek and she kissed me on the cheek the one time I met her and after that she never wanted to see me again. But that kiss she gave me was the best kiss I ever received. The only other times were when I was 13 and 14 with the blonde Israeli in Israel and when I blackmailed a girl to kiss me in 8th Grade when I was 13. The first time I kissed the Israeli was in a pool and someone from the forum told me on the phone "You're bad.". I cherish the memories and find it amazing I was able to do so at such as young age only a few months after I started liking girls but at the same time I know it was wrong and I will never do it again.

That little tiny bit of seminal fluid that comes out...really...to be honest that stuff sometimes comes out when you wake up in the morning...so...i don't by it that when i kiss a girl a significant amount of sperm is lost by drippage...

[Archie]

It's no fair to the woman if a man touches her because he gets sexual enjoyment from touching her. I will not shake an attractive woman's hand because I don't want to use her for enjoyment and because it is a sin to have such enjoyment from a woman other than my wife.

I didn't realize men thought of sex when they shook someone's hand.

What concerns me is that women would be the ones being disadvantaged professionally because much of the business world is male and much of the medical profession is male. So if you're a female businessperson or doctor and you can't shake hands with a colleague or examine someone of the opposite gender then you're going to be severely disadvantaged compared to your male counterparts.

Don't worry rubystars..I don't think of sex when a shake a woman's hand...However, if i"M holding my girlfriend's hand and we come across haredi or any yamulka wearing jew, we let go of each other out of respect.

I never said that men think of sex when shaking a woman's hand. I said they feel a sexually pleasureful feeling in their body. It is a body reaction, not a thought.

A rather broad generalization I think............

Perhaps for a guy who is never around women and barely dates that might be true.

Well Jewish men are not allowed to kiss women before marriage so any physical contact with a woman can be a sexual experience.

I have a problem with this theology. It makes no sense to me.  If a Jewish man is technically not supposed to kiss a woman before marraige then what stops him from having sex which is really "eating from from the tree of knowledge"...and kissing simply means "touching that fruit."

The idea of not kissing a woman before marraige is a fence that is built around the Torah. To all those who can uphold that rule, my blessings to them...But certainly, kissing is not sex...

Kissing can be as pleasureful as sex. You can get the same feeling in your body without having intercourse. Kissing is mouth sex and therefore is wrong before marriage.

I don't think kissing is mouth sex as it doesn't constitute as a sexual organ. Scripture forbids wasting of the seed but I don't recall anything about kissing.

It's possible that kissing can lead to the wasting of seed due to the pleasureful feeling of the kissing and I have heard of such a case. I asked a rabbi on Ask Moses about that and he said if it is an issue in a marriage, then the husband should only kiss his wife while having intercourse.

Listen..i have a lot of respect for those who wish to wait till they get married before they kiss...And i agree 100% that kissing can lead to other unholy things. THerefore, i respect those who feel they are weak on this account and prefer to wait. However, this "fence" is not a commandment..it is a matter of choice for a Jew who feels he needs this safeguard from sinning.  Not all will kiss and feel like wasthing his seed or going further to have sex.  But some men are very weak and they should follow this prohibition if it is important to them to not have sex before marraige or simply masturbate.

Masturbation is worse than pre-marital kissing. It always wastes seed while pre-marital kissing doesn't always waste seed. When I said kissing can waste seed, I meant that it comes out by itself while kissing because of the sexual feeling involved with the kiss. I didn't mean that there was any below the waste contact between the two. Someone told me that this happened to him the first and only time time he kissed a woman.

Yaacov..i know what you meant. the sexual feeling of a kiss might make a man want to masturbate afterwards..I get it...

You still don't get it. You're a man. You should know how men's bodies work. I'm saying the kiss itself would cause the seed to spill during the kiss. Why masturbate when he is touching a woman's body? The feeling of touching a woman's body without wasting seed is more sexually satisfying than wasting seed by yourself  without a woman.

When I was 13, I had a girlfriend in Israel and it was the greatest feeling in The World just to hug her and kiss her on the cheek. I also slow danced with a girl when I was 16. The only feelings that can surpass the feelings of hugging a woman are to French Kiss or to have sex, neither of which I have done, Baruch Hashem, but I can only imagine how turned on I would feel from kissing a woman on the lips. But all I can do is dream about the day I'll do it. Even if I was not against doing it before marriage, I also could only dream about it. It is not something realistic at this point in my life and it never has been. I thought I would get to do it with my French Internet girlfriend when I was 18 but she returned to her old boyfriend before we ever met and I only got to kiss her on the cheek and she kissed me on the cheek the one time I met her and after that she never wanted to see me again. But that kiss she gave me was the best kiss I ever received. The only other times were when I was 13 and 14 with the blonde Israeli in Israel and when I blackmailed a girl to kiss me in 8th Grade when I was 13. The first time I kissed the Israeli was in a pool and someone from the forum told me on the phone "You're bad.". I cherish the memories and find it amazing I was able to do so at such as young age only a few months after I started liking girls but at the same time I know it was wrong and I will never do it again.

That little tiny bit of seminal fluid that comes out...really...to be honest that stuff sometimes comes out when you wake up in the morning...so...i don't by it that when i kiss a girl a significant amount of sperm is lost by drippage...

This is one steamy thread !

I can't believe what I'm reading here!

hihihi...

[White Israelite]

It's no fair to the woman if a man touches her because he gets sexual enjoyment from touching her. I will not shake an attractive woman's hand because I don't want to use her for enjoyment and because it is a sin to have such enjoyment from a woman other than my wife.

I didn't realize men thought of sex when they shook someone's hand.

What concerns me is that women would be the ones being disadvantaged professionally because much of the business world is male and much of the medical profession is male. So if you're a female businessperson or doctor and you can't shake hands with a colleague or examine someone of the opposite gender then you're going to be severely disadvantaged compared to your male counterparts.

Don't worry rubystars..I don't think of sex when a shake a woman's hand...However, if i"M holding my girlfriend's hand and we come across haredi or any yamulka wearing jew, we let go of each other out of respect.

I never said that men think of sex when shaking a woman's hand. I said they feel a sexually pleasureful feeling in their body. It is a body reaction, not a thought.

A rather broad generalization I think............

Perhaps for a guy who is never around women and barely dates that might be true.

Well Jewish men are not allowed to kiss women before marriage so any physical contact with a woman can be a sexual experience.

I have a problem with this theology. It makes no sense to me.  If a Jewish man is technically not supposed to kiss a woman before marraige then what stops him from having sex which is really "eating from from the tree of knowledge"...and kissing simply means "touching that fruit."

The idea of not kissing a woman before marraige is a fence that is built around the Torah. To all those who can uphold that rule, my blessings to them...But certainly, kissing is not sex...

Kissing can be as pleasureful as sex. You can get the same feeling in your body without having intercourse. Kissing is mouth sex and therefore is wrong before marriage.

I don't think kissing is mouth sex as it doesn't constitute as a sexual organ. Scripture forbids wasting of the seed but I don't recall anything about kissing.

It's possible that kissing can lead to the wasting of seed due to the pleasureful feeling of the kissing and I have heard of such a case. I asked a rabbi on Ask Moses about that and he said if it is an issue in a marriage, then the husband should only kiss his wife while having intercourse.

Listen..i have a lot of respect for those who wish to wait till they get married before they kiss...And i agree 100% that kissing can lead to other unholy things. THerefore, i respect those who feel they are weak on this account and prefer to wait. However, this "fence" is not a commandment..it is a matter of choice for a Jew who feels he needs this safeguard from sinning.  Not all will kiss and feel like wasthing his seed or going further to have sex.  But some men are very weak and they should follow this prohibition if it is important to them to not have sex before marraige or simply masturbate.

Masturbation is worse than pre-marital kissing. It always wastes seed while pre-marital kissing doesn't always waste seed. When I said kissing can waste seed, I meant that it comes out by itself while kissing because of the sexual feeling involved with the kiss. I didn't mean that there was any below the waste contact between the two. Someone told me that this happened to him the first and only time time he kissed a woman.

Yaacov..i know what you meant. the sexual feeling of a kiss might make a man want to masturbate afterwards..I get it...

You still don't get it. You're a man. You should know how men's bodies work. I'm saying the kiss itself would cause the seed to spill during the kiss. Why masturbate when he is touching a woman's body? The feeling of touching a woman's body without wasting seed is more sexually satisfying than wasting seed by yourself  without a woman.

When I was 13, I had a girlfriend in Israel and it was the greatest feeling in The World just to hug her and kiss her on the cheek. I also slow danced with a girl when I was 16. The only feelings that can surpass the feelings of hugging a woman are to French Kiss or to have sex, neither of which I have done, Baruch Hashem, but I can only imagine how turned on I would feel from kissing a woman on the lips. But all I can do is dream about the day I'll do it. Even if I was not against doing it before marriage, I also could only dream about it. It is not something realistic at this point in my life and it never has been. I thought I would get to do it with my French Internet girlfriend when I was 18 but she returned to her old boyfriend before we ever met and I only got to kiss her on the cheek and she kissed me on the cheek the one time I met her and after that she never wanted to see me again. But that kiss she gave me was the best kiss I ever received. The only other times were when I was 13 and 14 with the blonde Israeli in Israel and when I blackmailed a girl to kiss me in 8th Grade when I was 13. The first time I kissed the Israeli was in a pool and someone from the forum told me on the phone "You're bad.". I cherish the memories and find it amazing I was able to do so at such as young age only a few months after I started liking girls but at the same time I know it was wrong and I will never do it again.

That little tiny bit of seminal fluid that comes out...really...to be honest that stuff sometimes comes out when you wake up in the morning...so...i don't by it that when i kiss a girl a significant amount of sperm is lost by drippage...

Your referring to wet dreams? That is true.

[Zelhar]

It's no fair to the woman if a man touches her because he gets sexual enjoyment from touching her. I will not shake an attractive woman's hand because I don't want to use her for enjoyment and because it is a sin to have such enjoyment from a woman other than my wife.

I didn't realize men thought of sex when they shook someone's hand.

What concerns me is that women would be the ones being disadvantaged professionally because much of the business world is male and much of the medical profession is male. So if you're a female businessperson or doctor and you can't shake hands with a colleague or examine someone of the opposite gender then you're going to be severely disadvantaged compared to your male counterparts.

Don't worry rubystars..I don't think of sex when a shake a woman's hand...However, if i"M holding my girlfriend's hand and we come across haredi or any yamulka wearing jew, we let go of each other out of respect.

I never said that men think of sex when shaking a woman's hand. I said they feel a sexually pleasureful feeling in their body. It is a body reaction, not a thought.

A rather broad generalization I think............

Perhaps for a guy who is never around women and barely dates that might be true.

Well Jewish men are not allowed to kiss women before marriage so any physical contact with a woman can be a sexual experience.

I have a problem with this theology. It makes no sense to me.  If a Jewish man is technically not supposed to kiss a woman before marraige then what stops him from having sex which is really "eating from from the tree of knowledge"...and kissing simply means "touching that fruit."

The idea of not kissing a woman before marraige is a fence that is built around the Torah. To all those who can uphold that rule, my blessings to them...But certainly, kissing is not sex...

Kissing can be as pleasureful as sex. You can get the same feeling in your body without having intercourse. Kissing is mouth sex and therefore is wrong before marriage.

I don't think kissing is mouth sex as it doesn't constitute as a sexual organ. Scripture forbids wasting of the seed but I don't recall anything about kissing.

It's possible that kissing can lead to the wasting of seed due to the pleasureful feeling of the kissing and I have heard of such a case. I asked a rabbi on Ask Moses about that and he said if it is an issue in a marriage, then the husband should only kiss his wife while having intercourse.

Listen..i have a lot of respect for those who wish to wait till they get married before they kiss...And i agree 100% that kissing can lead to other unholy things. THerefore, i respect those who feel they are weak on this account and prefer to wait. However, this "fence" is not a commandment..it is a matter of choice for a Jew who feels he needs this safeguard from sinning.  Not all will kiss and feel like wasthing his seed or going further to have sex.  But some men are very weak and they should follow this prohibition if it is important to them to not have sex before marraige or simply masturbate.

Masturbation is worse than pre-marital kissing. It always wastes seed while pre-marital kissing doesn't always waste seed. When I said kissing can waste seed, I meant that it comes out by itself while kissing because of the sexual feeling involved with the kiss. I didn't mean that there was any below the waste contact between the two. Someone told me that this happened to him the first and only time time he kissed a woman.

Yaacov..i know what you meant. the sexual feeling of a kiss might make a man want to masturbate afterwards..I get it...

You still don't get it. You're a man. You should know how men's bodies work. I'm saying the kiss itself would cause the seed to spill during the kiss. Why masturbate when he is touching a woman's body? The feeling of touching a woman's body without wasting seed is more sexually satisfying than wasting seed by yourself  without a woman.

When I was 13, I had a girlfriend in Israel and it was the greatest feeling in The World just to hug her and kiss her on the cheek. I also slow danced with a girl when I was 16. The only feelings that can surpass the feelings of hugging a woman are to French Kiss or to have sex, neither of which I have done, Baruch Hashem, but I can only imagine how turned on I would feel from kissing a woman on the lips. But all I can do is dream about the day I'll do it. Even if I was not against doing it before marriage, I also could only dream about it. It is not something realistic at this point in my life and it never has been. I thought I would get to do it with my French Internet girlfriend when I was 18 but she returned to her old boyfriend before we ever met and I only got to kiss her on the cheek and she kissed me on the cheek the one time I met her and after that she never wanted to see me again. But that kiss she gave me was the best kiss I ever received. The only other times were when I was 13 and 14 with the blonde Israeli in Israel and when I blackmailed a girl to kiss me in 8th Grade when I was 13. The first time I kissed the Israeli was in a pool and someone from the forum told me on the phone "You're bad.". I cherish the memories and find it amazing I was able to do so at such as young age only a few months after I started liking girls but at the same time I know it was wrong and I will never do it again.

That little tiny bit of seminal fluid that comes out...really...to be honest that stuff sometimes comes out when you wake up in the morning...so...i don't by it that when i kiss a girl a significant amount of sperm is lost by drippage...

Right, that fluid is practically seedless and its biological role is not insemination, I don't think that one needs to pray amendment over this .

[Dr. Dan]

Wet dreams are caused by impure thoughts. They are also said to be caused by being seduced by the demon Lilit at night although Chaim says this is allegorical.

Umm, what planet do we live on?  Impure thoughts?  Aren't we human that have hormones that spike when we go through puberty? 

Also, if we didn't have these so called "impure thoughts" esepcially during that time period or in our adult life, we men would be called, ummm, a HOMO (that is in homosexual!!!)

yah... um...oh yeh, Gd forbid!

Drippage is drippage...sometimes over night as the bladder fills up, we tend to get erections...also known as "morning wood"...yeh..that's not always due to impure thoughts but becuase we have to pee really badly and subconciously hold the urge to pee while we are asleep.

[Ben Yehuda]

It's no fair to the woman if a man touches her because he gets sexual enjoyment from touching her. I will not shake an attractive woman's hand because I don't want to use her for enjoyment and because it is a sin to have such enjoyment from a woman other than my wife.

I didn't realize men thought of sex when they shook someone's hand.

What concerns me is that women would be the ones being disadvantaged professionally because much of the business world is male and much of the medical profession is male. So if you're a female businessperson or doctor and you can't shake hands with a colleague or examine someone of the opposite gender then you're going to be severely disadvantaged compared to your male counterparts.

Don't worry rubystars..I don't think of sex when a shake a woman's hand...However, if i"M holding my girlfriend's hand and we come across haredi or any yamulka wearing jew, we let go of each other out of respect.

I never said that men think of sex when shaking a woman's hand. I said they feel a sexually pleasureful feeling in their body. It is a body reaction, not a thought.

A rather broad generalization I think............

Perhaps for a guy who is never around women and barely dates that might be true.

Well Jewish men are not allowed to kiss women before marriage so any physical contact with a woman can be a sexual experience.

I have a problem with this theology. It makes no sense to me.  If a Jewish man is technically not supposed to kiss a woman before marraige then what stops him from having sex which is really "eating from from the tree of knowledge"...and kissing simply means "touching that fruit."

The idea of not kissing a woman before marraige is a fence that is built around the Torah. To all those who can uphold that rule, my blessings to them...But certainly, kissing is not sex...

Kissing can be as pleasureful as sex. You can get the same feeling in your body without having intercourse. Kissing is mouth sex and therefore is wrong before marriage.

I don't think kissing is mouth sex as it doesn't constitute as a sexual organ. Scripture forbids wasting of the seed but I don't recall anything about kissing.

It's possible that kissing can lead to the wasting of seed due to the pleasureful feeling of the kissing and I have heard of such a case. I asked a rabbi on Ask Moses about that and he said if it is an issue in a marriage, then the husband should only kiss his wife while having intercourse.

Listen..i have a lot of respect for those who wish to wait till they get married before they kiss...And i agree 100% that kissing can lead to other unholy things. THerefore, i respect those who feel they are weak on this account and prefer to wait. However, this "fence" is not a commandment..it is a matter of choice for a Jew who feels he needs this safeguard from sinning.  Not all will kiss and feel like wasthing his seed or going further to have sex.  But some men are very weak and they should follow this prohibition if it is important to them to not have sex before marraige or simply masturbate.

Masturbation is worse than pre-marital kissing. It always wastes seed while pre-marital kissing doesn't always waste seed. When I said kissing can waste seed, I meant that it comes out by itself while kissing because of the sexual feeling involved with the kiss. I didn't mean that there was any below the waste contact between the two. Someone told me that this happened to him the first and only time time he kissed a woman.

Yacov,

As a physician, I can add that medical theory dictates that seed [sperm] is constantly recycled within the male, whether it leaves his body or not. Old gametes are resorbed and new gametes produced. So, if it is not used for fertilization, it is destroyed or wasted, so to speak, inside the body or out. Hence sex without fertilization, or masturbation, in this sense, is logically no more a waste of seed than abstinence.

I am not trying to make a point for one sort of behavior or another just pointing out the apparent inconsistency of "wasting the seed" argument. If G-d commands a behavior then there need be no argument what an observant Jew need do, logic and medical theory aside. I am sure on what G-d commands regarding this according to Torah. Are there direct passages regarding this in Torah?

[Nic Brookes]

It's no fair to the woman if a man touches her because he gets sexual enjoyment from touching her. I will not shake an attractive woman's hand because I don't want to use her for enjoyment and because it is a sin to have such enjoyment from a woman other than my wife.

I didn't realize men thought of sex when they shook someone's hand.

What concerns me is that women would be the ones being disadvantaged professionally because much of the business world is male and much of the medical profession is male. So if you're a female businessperson or doctor and you can't shake hands with a colleague or examine someone of the opposite gender then you're going to be severely disadvantaged compared to your male counterparts.

Don't worry rubystars..I don't think of sex when a shake a woman's hand...However, if i"M holding my girlfriend's hand and we come across haredi or any yamulka wearing jew, we let go of each other out of respect.

I never said that men think of sex when shaking a woman's hand. I said they feel a sexually pleasureful feeling in their body. It is a body reaction, not a thought.

A rather broad generalization I think............

Perhaps for a guy who is never around women and barely dates that might be true.

Well Jewish men are not allowed to kiss women before marriage so any physical contact with a woman can be a sexual experience.

I have a problem with this theology. It makes no sense to me.  If a Jewish man is technically not supposed to kiss a woman before marraige then what stops him from having sex which is really "eating from from the tree of knowledge"...and kissing simply means "touching that fruit."

The idea of not kissing a woman before marraige is a fence that is built around the Torah. To all those who can uphold that rule, my blessings to them...But certainly, kissing is not sex...

Kissing can be as pleasureful as sex. You can get the same feeling in your body without having intercourse. Kissing is mouth sex and therefore is wrong before marriage.

I don't think kissing is mouth sex as it doesn't constitute as a sexual organ. Scripture forbids wasting of the seed but I don't recall anything about kissing.

It's possible that kissing can lead to the wasting of seed due to the pleasureful feeling of the kissing and I have heard of such a case. I asked a rabbi on Ask Moses about that and he said if it is an issue in a marriage, then the husband should only kiss his wife while having intercourse.

Listen..i have a lot of respect for those who wish to wait till they get married before they kiss...And i agree 100% that kissing can lead to other unholy things. THerefore, i respect those who feel they are weak on this account and prefer to wait. However, this "fence" is not a commandment..it is a matter of choice for a Jew who feels he needs this safeguard from sinning.  Not all will kiss and feel like wasthing his seed or going further to have sex.  But some men are very weak and they should follow this prohibition if it is important to them to not have sex before marraige or simply masturbate.

Masturbation is worse than pre-marital kissing. It always wastes seed while pre-marital kissing doesn't always waste seed. When I said kissing can waste seed, I meant that it comes out by itself while kissing because of the sexual feeling involved with the kiss. I didn't mean that there was any below the waste contact between the two. Someone told me that this happened to him the first and only time time he kissed a woman.

Yaacov..i know what you meant. the sexual feeling of a kiss might make a man want to masturbate afterwards..I get it...

You still don't get it. You're a man. You should know how men's bodies work. I'm saying the kiss itself would cause the seed to spill during the kiss. Why masturbate when he is touching a woman's body? The feeling of touching a woman's body without wasting seed is more sexually satisfying than wasting seed by yourself  without a woman.

When I was 13, I had a girlfriend in Israel and it was the greatest feeling in The World just to hug her and kiss her on the cheek. I also slow danced with a girl when I was 16. The only feelings that can surpass the feelings of hugging a woman are to French Kiss or to have sex, neither of which I have done, Baruch Hashem, but I can only imagine how turned on I would feel from kissing a woman on the lips. But all I can do is dream about the day I'll do it. Even if I was not against doing it before marriage, I also could only dream about it. It is not something realistic at this point in my life and it never has been. I thought I would get to do it with my French Internet girlfriend when I was 18 but she returned to her old boyfriend before we ever met and I only got to kiss her on the cheek and she kissed me on the cheek the one time I met her and after that she never wanted to see me again. But that kiss she gave me was the best kiss I ever received. The only other times were when I was 13 and 14 with the blonde Israeli in Israel and when I blackmailed a girl to kiss me in 8th Grade when I was 13. The first time I kissed the Israeli was in a pool and someone from the forum told me on the phone "You're bad.". I cherish the memories and find it amazing I was able to do so at such as young age only a few months after I started liking girls but at the same time I know it was wrong and I will never do it again.

An immoral schvarza reading this would be laughing so much at this!