On a mission to the gentiles

[Fruit of thy loins]

http://www.convertingtojudaism.com/Photograph-Album.htm

[Lisa]

Interesting site, Fruit.

[Fruit of thy loins]

Thank you Lisa.  I thought it interesting to see all of those Anglo-Americans (and a few [censored]) joining conversion seminars.

Perhaps they are spouses being converted for marriage purposes.  Seems most likely to me.  None of them look like great rabinical scholars in the making.   

[Lisa]

I think there's something to be said for voluntarily converting to Judaism.  From what I understand, conversion is not a quick and easy undertaking.  These people are probably doing more than many non-observant Jews who were simply born Jewish. 

On another note, I used to work with a Jewish woman (not observant) who ended up marrying a non-Jew.  The man converted (in a Reform type of ceremony).  So when I saw her years later, she was telling me about how her husband asked her not to do errands on the Sabbath.  Now I realize that many on this forum believe that Reform anything doesn't count. But I just thought it was a nice story to hear from her. 

[Fruit of thy loins]

Does that mean a person must follow ALL of the commandments or that they must be striving to do so all the time?

Does a converted person stop being Jewish if they cut away their sideburns for example?  I wonder how many converts have allowed their sideburns to grow.  Not many I shouldn't imagine.

[Fruit of thy loins]

I think there's something to be said for voluntarily converting to Judaism.  From what I understand, conversion is not a quick and easy undertaking.  These people are probably doing more than many non-observant Jews who were simply born Jewish. 

On another note, I used to work with a Jewish woman (not observant) who ended up marrying a non-Jew.  The man converted (in a Reform type of ceremony).  So when I saw her years later, she was telling me about how her husband asked her not to do errands on the Sabbath.  Now I realize that many on this forum believe that Reform anything doesn't count. But I just thought it was a nice story to hear from her. 

Dear Lisa

Good news indeed.  Of course from the Orthodox point of view the man's actions are irrelevant, because his children are Jewish anyway.  In a sense that poor man's children probably belong more to the Jewish community in terms of ties and affection than to him. 

In my very humble opinion the idea of conversion does not sound very tempting.  Reform syngagogues appear to require extreme left-wing views more than anything else from their acolytes which is probably why they are easier to join.

[Lisa]

Fruit, as I see it, children, first and foremost, belong to their parents.  I don't see how it's possible for a child to "belong to a community" before belonging to his/her parents.  If someone converts to Christianity, their children don't automatically belong to the community more than they do their parents.  That sounds like something Hillary Clinton would come up with. 

Also remember, once a person converts, he is she is as Jewish as anyone who is born Jewish.  So I don't think I agree about the man's children belonging "to the Jewish community" more than to their father.  (For that matter, I don't know if they have children, as I haven't seen the couple in years.)

Another thing is, there is no compulsion in converting to Judaism.  Like Yacov said in an earlier post, potential converts are often discouraged initially.  This is to make sure that the convert is sincere in his intentions.  Also, conversion is not a simple process.  There is a lot of studying and learning involved.  And from what my friend told me, the Reform conversion (not that I'm advocating anything Reform) was not that quick and easy either.  So I think it's safe to say, the young man, whose name I forget, converted of his own free will. 

And for whatever it's worth, they appeared to me to very happy together. 

[jazzloversinc]

I am a Christian and I consider Christians extensions of the Jews.  Our roots are in Judeism...my Lord was a Jewish Carpenter.   (HIS mission was to bring the true God to the Gentile...He said he came to save the lost children of Israel but he came to bring God to the gentile and I am very thankful for that through St. Paul and the apostles)  jazz

[kahaneloyalist]

I am a Christian and I consider Christians extensions of the Jews.  Our roots are in Judeism...my Lord was a Jewish Carpenter.   (HIS mission was to bring the true G-d to the Gentile...He said he came to save the lost children of Israel but he came to bring G-d to the gentile and I am very thankful for that through St. Paul and the apostles)  jazz

We do not accept Christianity as an extension of Judaism, while it is better then pure avodah zara it is imperfect.

[jazzloversinc]

Well, I would never convert to anything.  I am a Christian.  We have many things in common with the Jews and we need to stand together against those who really want us all dead. 

[kahaneloyalist]

If a person converts to Judaism, and accepts the Torah but later becomes confused and rebels they are still Jews.

[jazzloversinc]

I could never denounce my Lord Jesus.  jazzz.