Author Topic: Gaza Strip is a concentration camp, says Vatican (Read 2143 times)

Maimonides · « **on:** January 07, 2009, 10:06:03 PM »

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24886733-12335,00.html

Quote

THE Gaza Strip has been turned into a "concentration camp" by two weeks of Israeli bombardments, said a senior Vatican official.

Cardinal Renato Martino, the Vatican's justice and peace minister, was quoted by the online Italian daily Il Sussidiario.

"Let's look at the conditions in Gaza: these increasingly resemble a big concentration camp," said Cardinal Martino.

Cardinal Martino said it was in neither parties interest to carry on fighting and urged both to show more willingness to hold peace talks.

"If they can't come to an agreement, then someone else should do it (for them). The world cannot sit back and watch without doing anything.

"We Christians are not the only ones to call this land 'holy', Jews and Muslims do so too. The fact that this land is the scene of bloodshed seems a great tragedy," he added.

Israel's offensive on Gaza has killed almost 700 Palestinians, including 220 children, and injured 3000 since December 27, according to Gaza medics.

Aid agencies have declared a total humanitarian crisis in Gaza, owing to the ailing stocks of basic food, water and medical supplies.

In response Israel said the comments were "based on Hamas propaganda".

"Making remarks that seem to be based on Hamas propaganda while ignoring its numerous crimes ... does not bring the people closer to truth and peace," foreign ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor told AFP.

Tzvi Ben Roshel1 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 07, 2009, 10:09:40 PM »

Its funny, how can that be when the vatican denies that their is a state of Israel? If it doesn't exist how can it oppress the poor "palistinkins"

Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks · « **Reply #2 on:** January 07, 2009, 10:12:53 PM »

What pigs. But many Protestant denominations have been just as bad or worse.

zachor_ve_kavod · « **Reply #3 on:** January 07, 2009, 10:20:23 PM »

I wonder if the Pope feels the same way. He has been pretty outspoken about the problem of Islam. I'd like to see him make a statement blaming Hamas for this in a day or two, which is not far-fetched. Regardless, this Cardinal is a Pius XII type.

muman613 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2009, 10:24:44 PM »

Quote from: Maimonides on January 07, 2009, 10:06:03 PM

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24886733-12335,00.html

Quote
THE Gaza Strip has been turned into a "concentration camp" by two weeks of Israeli bombardments, said a senior Vatican official.

Cardinal Renato Martino, the Vatican's justice and peace minister, was quoted by the online Italian daily Il Sussidiario.

"Let's look at the conditions in Gaza: these increasingly resemble a big concentration camp," said Cardinal Martino.

Cardinal Martino said it was in neither parties interest to carry on fighting and urged both to show more willingness to hold peace talks.

"If they can't come to an agreement, then someone else should do it (for them). The world cannot sit back and watch without doing anything.

"We Christians are not the only ones to call this land 'holy', Jews and Muslims do so too. The fact that this land is the scene of bloodshed seems a great tragedy," he added.

Israel's offensive on Gaza has killed almost 700 Palestinians, including 220 children, and injured 3000 since December 27, according to Gaza medics.

Aid agencies have declared a total humanitarian crisis in Gaza, owing to the ailing stocks of basic food, water and medical supplies.

In response Israel said the comments were "based on Hamas propaganda".

"Making remarks that seem to be based on Hamas propaganda while ignoring its numerous crimes ... does not bring the people closer to truth and peace," foreign ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor told AFP.

maybe someone should remind the church of the bloodshed in the 'Holy Land' perpetrated by the Church during the Crusades... And how about the innocent blood shed during the Inquisitions... The Church has more than enough blood on its hand and I think it is humorous that the Church is making such ridiculous statements.

Deleted by Lisa

Muman, I completely agree with you about the RCC doing some very bad things in the past. But I don't think you want to get that worked up over them now. In a way, it doesn't matter what they say. As Jews, it's our destiny to be separate from the other nations. It's also our duty as Jews to defend ourselves, and not to rely on others to do it for us. So let that cardinal say whatever he wants. Israel has the strongest military in the Middle East. And she needs to unleash her military might so that no one will think of ever messing the with Jews. That's the most important thing.

q_q_ · « **Reply #5 on:** January 07, 2009, 10:32:15 PM »

Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on January 07, 2009, 10:09:40 PM

Its funny, how can that be when the vatican denies that their is a state of Israel? If it doesn't exist how can it oppress the poor "palistinkins"

Given the subject, "Re: Gaza Strip is a concentration camp, says Vatican"

It is not fitting to start a sentence with "It's funny" and make some remark regarding some supposed logical fallacy.

This is a sick disgusting remark from the vatican..

BTW, the church has had to rethink their position since jews got a state, because it attacks their theology of a new nation of israel through them. But I don't think that the vatican denies that there is a state of israel. I think they accept it, they don't oppose its existance. They are just pro palestinian - probably wanting a 2 state solution.

Tzvi Ben Roshel1 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 07, 2009, 10:58:10 PM »

"BTW, the church has had to rethink their position since jews got a state, because it attacks their theology of a new nation of israel through them. But I don't think that the vatican denies that there is a state of israel. I think they accept it, they don't oppose its existance. They are just pro palestinian - probably wanting a 2 state solution."

No they actually responded to a group of Rabbis (I think Rabbi Mizrachi included- he is the one who said this) on the question of the prophecy (actually outside of the gospels, but part of the church teachings for centuries) that the Jews will never return to the Land of Israel because they rejected yeshu. The Rabbis said, but look now the Jews did return in large numbers to the Holy Land. The church responded- we do not recognize the state of Israel

Lets speak the truth- they want Israel destroyed.

q_q_ · « **Reply #7 on:** January 07, 2009, 11:34:38 PM »

Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on January 07, 2009, 10:58:10 PM

"BTW, the church has had to rethink their position since jews got a state, because it attacks their theology of a new nation of israel through them. But I don't think that the vatican denies that there is a state of israel. I think they accept it, they don't oppose its existance. They are just pro palestinian - probably wanting a 2 state solution."

No they actually responded to a group of Rabbis (I think Rabbi Mizrachi included- he is the one who said this) on the question of the prophecy (actually outside of the gospels, but part of the church teachings for centuries) that the Jews will never return to the Land of Israel because they rejected yeshu. The Rabbis said, but look now the Jews did return in large numbers to the Holy Land. The church responded- we do not recognize the state of Israel
Lets speak the truth- they want Israel destroyed.

who of the church responded..

For example.
(I have a link but don't want to advertise it here, I will PM you if you'd like).
A religious jewish group, wrote to the Vatican asking them to resolve certain contradictions. They wrote a latter back referring the jewish group to one of their scholars. Remember, the vatican is meant to be infallible.
The scholar of theirs said that the gospels have contradictions.
NOW.. The Pope would have NEVER said that!!
What it shows (this is the argument in that article anyway!) is a problem with believing that the vatican is infallible. From a realistic perspective it's not really a statement from the vatican! Theologically perhaps it is. He with his infallibility referred them to the scholar whose answer is or would be good with him.
I think that represents the article I read, it was a while back that I read it.

Do you think the vatican wants genocide of jews? I wouldn't say that.

I hate to tell you, but some and perhaps all anti-zionists (not NK) wish the state of israel never existed, but now that it does, they deal with it. Because it won't go away, and they don't want jews murdered.

Tzvi Ben Roshel1 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 07, 2009, 11:41:22 PM »

Quote from: q_q_ on January 07, 2009, 11:34:38 PM

Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on January 07, 2009, 10:58:10 PM
"BTW, the church has had to rethink their position since jews got a state, because it attacks their theology of a new nation of israel through them. But I don't think that the vatican denies that there is a state of israel. I think they accept it, they don't oppose its existance. They are just pro palestinian - probably wanting a 2 state solution."

No they actually responded to a group of Rabbis (I think Rabbi Mizrachi included- he is the one who said this) on the question of the prophecy (actually outside of the gospels, but part of the church teachings for centuries) that the Jews will never return to the Land of Israel because they rejected yeshu. The Rabbis said, but look now the Jews did return in large numbers to the Holy Land. The church responded- we do not recognize the state of Israel
Lets speak the truth- they want Israel destroyed.

who of the church responded..

For example.
(I have a link but don't want to advertise it here, I will PM you if you'd like).
A religious jewish group, wrote to the Vatican asking them to resolve certain contradictions. They wrote a latter back referring the jewish group to one of their scholars. Remember, the vatican is meant to be infallible.
The scholar of theirs said that the gospels have contradictions.
NOW.. The Pope would have NEVER said that!!
What it shows (this is the argument in that article anyway!) is a problem with believing that the vatican is infallible. From a realistic perspective it's not really a statement from the vatican!
I think that represents the article I read, it was a while back that I read it.

I heard something similar also (maybe it was something else). But also a group of Rabbis asked the vatican questions, they said they cant answer them (Maybe I can even get the questions to you), but they said to contact the priest (or someone not sure about the title) in Bethlehem. First off, if they are the top, why cant they answer these questions.
Anyway appointing a scholar to answer on your behalf is like you speaking. It would be like sending an embassador to the U.N. and saying that he doesn't speak for the government of the country that he is representing.
And yes send me.

Daleksfearme · « **Reply #9 on:** January 07, 2009, 11:47:12 PM »

Why aren't they condeeming the murder of so many Innocent Jews since 1948 when the State Of Israel was founded? Of course the Vatican is merely a political organisation. It really has nothing to do with the spiritual concept of religion. The Vatican is only concerned with maintaining its own power base.

q_q_ · « **Reply #10 on:** January 07, 2009, 11:47:29 PM »

Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on January 07, 2009, 11:41:22 PM

Quote from: q_q_ on January 07, 2009, 11:34:38 PM
Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on January 07, 2009, 10:58:10 PM
"BTW, the church has had to rethink their position since jews got a state, because it attacks their theology of a new nation of israel through them. But I don't think that the vatican denies that there is a state of israel. I think they accept it, they don't oppose its existance. They are just pro palestinian - probably wanting a 2 state solution."

No they actually responded to a group of Rabbis (I think Rabbi Mizrachi included- he is the one who said this) on the question of the prophecy (actually outside of the gospels, but part of the church teachings for centuries) that the Jews will never return to the Land of Israel because they rejected yeshu. The Rabbis said, but look now the Jews did return in large numbers to the Holy Land. The church responded- we do not recognize the state of Israel
Lets speak the truth- they want Israel destroyed.

who of the church responded..

For example.
(I have a link but don't want to advertise it here, I will PM you if you'd like).
A religious jewish group, wrote to the Vatican asking them to resolve certain contradictions. They wrote a latter back referring the jewish group to one of their scholars. Remember, the vatican is meant to be infallible.
The scholar of theirs said that the gospels have contradictions.
NOW.. The Pope would have NEVER said that!!
What it shows (this is the argument in that article anyway!) is a problem with believing that the vatican is infallible. From a realistic perspective it's not really a statement from the vatican!
I think that represents the article I read, it was a while back that I read it.

I heard something similar also (maybe it was something else). But also a group of Rabbis asked the vatican questions, they said they cant answer them (Maybe I can even get the questions to you), but they said to contact the priest (or someone not sure about the title) in Bethlehem. First off, if they are the top, why cant they answer these questions.
And yes send me.

Maybe the pope is too busy.

If you forward a question to the leading rabbi of the generation, I doubt he'd respond himself. And if he did , it would be a one-off.

It's also possible that he couldn't answer it off hand.. Or was afraid to offer an explanation too directly.

They were referred by the vatican to a group in jerusalem , so, not bet-lechem.

And this was nothing about the state of israel not being recognized!

it sounds like a different incident.

I've sending you the link in a minute, so you'll have it by the time you read this sentence.

mord · « **Reply #11 on:** January 08, 2009, 07:05:11 AM »

Maybe someone should get this guy films of real concentration camps.No Red cross trucks getting 3 hrs to distribute food and medicine and where 6'2'' men after their liberation were 110 pounds

Kahane-Was-Right BT · « **Reply #12 on:** January 08, 2009, 07:08:12 AM »

The Vatican is once against stating its utter hatred for Jews. There is simply no other explanation.

✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ · « **Reply #13 on:** January 08, 2009, 08:50:44 AM »

They have a history of being anti-Jew right from the nazi days

syyuge · « **Reply #14 on:** January 08, 2009, 09:19:44 AM »

At least those who can forget, shall try to forget it all like a horror dream, I mean if it is forgettable.

AsheDina · « **Reply #15 on:** January 08, 2009, 12:42:16 PM »

Churches- not Christians are NOT obeying their OWN book. Hence, they are WIDE OPEN for indoctrinating- same in the 3rd Reich. Since America is NO MORE the nation it is suppose to be- we can ALL look forward to a lot of persecution, just like the real born again people will. Same as in Germany in the 30's. There were Christians that stood out from amongst the rest, survived and saved many Jews.
I hate to say that all of this anti-semitism is started by leftist Jews- but it is. We will all suffer for their treachery. I also know that MANY preists got executed, by Hilers SS, and Catholics are the 1st now to stand with Israel & Jews. As much as people HATE to hear about this, NikMatDam talked about this very thing.

Dr. Dan · « **Reply #16 on:** January 08, 2009, 05:35:17 PM »

disgusting

Tzvi Ben Roshel1 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 08, 2009, 05:54:12 PM »

"I hate to say that all of this anti-semitism is started by leftist Jews- but it is."

q_q_ · « **Reply #18 on:** January 08, 2009, 06:02:26 PM »

Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel

"I hate to say that all of this anti-semitism is started by leftist Jews- but it is."

Tzvi, it looked a bit like you wrote that.

You didn't. Ashdina did. I know you put quotes around it, but it still was not clear.

You should have said
Ashdina wrote:
So that we know you are quoting her.

OR better. Use the quote button and quote her. Just quoting that relevant bit.

Or, if you can get syntax right (it takes skills similar to spelling) you can type in the forum's markup language yourself. You know the square bracket, the word quote, the equals sign. or square bracket the word quote space author equals authorname close square bracket. e.t.c.

Ithaca-37 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 08, 2009, 06:07:28 PM »

Some perspective is perhaps warranted when considering the postings showing Hitler meeting with church officials in the early 1930s: First, Hitler was a freely elected official in the heart of Catholic Europe, and a lot of people even beyond Germany had hopes that he would somehow grow-up from his Mein Kampf writings and become a pragmatic leader. I've read some really interesting quotes attributed to no less than Franklin Roosevelt from the early 1930s that went more or less like this: "Hitler is the kind of leader that Germany needs, and I think that we'll be able to negotiate with him okay."

And if you think that this sort of thinking died out, let me remind you that no less than Yassar Arafat once won a Nobel Peace Prize.

37

cjd · « **Reply #20 on:** January 08, 2009, 07:13:23 PM »

People should really get a book that tells them how the power structure is set up in the Vatican because it would help them understand how and who sets Vatican policy . As large an organization as the RCC church is if people take the rantings of every Bishop or Priest as Vatican policy you end up with crazy stories like this by the dozens. The Vatican has become way to sophisticated to release a blundering statement like that as policy. I am sure they do support a two state solution however I think that their reasons are not the ones stated in this post. I think the Pope saw that Israel was under constant rocket fire and something needed to be done. I am sure he will put out a statement for peace and sadness about the loss of life however to be honest I have not even seen that. As far as the church and Hitler goes in the start of the war Hitler could have easily taken over the Vatican and not much could have been done to stop him. In the closing days it could have been a different picture since by then the church could have had the upper hand. Lastly I think FDR's quote needs to be looked at in context of when it was said. In Hitlers early days FDR may have said something like that however by around 1938 FDR had a very good picture of what Hitler was and knew America would be going to war with him very soon.

yeshuadisciple · « **Reply #21 on:** January 09, 2009, 02:00:40 AM »

The majority of the church, Catholic Protestant and Eastern Orthodox, is rotten to the core. I fear that the church may soon return to an openly anti semitic stance as Bible believing Christians wane in their influence. A return to church tradition is not a good thing for Jews or Christians. The crusades not only killed many Jews but wiped out whole Christian communities by the millions who opposed the mainline church's doctrines. I can't help but feel that the world is descending into madness. I never would have thought that people could again be so openly anti semitic only 60 years after the holocaust. It's sickening. I just want to scream about the total lack of reason when it comes to the hostility towards Israel, a free and democratic society and support for a gang of thugs in Gaza.