Serbs in Turkey

[Serbian_Radical_Party]

REPUBLIC OF SERBIAN KRAJINA GOVERNMENT IN EXILE
11.080 Земун, Магистратски трг бр. 3
Тел. 3077-028, факс: 3077-247, [email protected]
Number: 1112/09 – 02. 10. 2009.


Muslim Serbs of Turkey against the assimilation of Catholic and Muslim Serbs  in new nations, [the Croatian and Bosniak].

The president of the Serbian-Turkish friendship association ‘’Inat’’, sir Dragoslav Milosavljevic, surprised the media by stating that 9 million Islamic Serbs currently live in Turkey. This statement can easily be verified upon visiting many of the local stores and markets in Turkey where many of the owners can be heard speaking in Serbian. "We are not dealing with Turks who learned Serbian language, we are dealing with Serbs who still speak their native language" – says the Serbian-Turkish friendship association ‘’Inat’’.

When the genocide against the Serbs and the disintegration of Yugoslavia occurred in the former Yugoslav federal units of Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina, as well as during NATO’s terror campaign against Serbian territories (1994, 1995 and 1999), the Islamic Serbs of Turkey took the side of their relatives from the Balkans. Their forefathers arrived from Bosnia and Herzegovina to Turkey in 1878 after the Austro-Hungarian empire began their occupation of Bosnia and Herzegovina. But they also arrived from other former Yugoslav areas after the Balkan wars and World wars. Islamic Serbs from Turkey are well aware of the fact that the Vatican and the western-European countries did everything to divide Serbs by religion and to assimilate some Serbs into the new nations.

The fact that Serb Catholics are now Croatians and Serbian Muslims Bosniaks attests to this assimilation of Serbs. The representatives of the so called Bosniak nation [form Sarajevo and Novi Pazar] responded to the statements made by the Muslim Serbs from Turkey by reiterating to them that the Serbs of Turkey are actually ethnically Bosniaks. The Serbs from Turkey rejected this claim and responded by saying that they are of Serbian heritage.


Government RS Krajina
Ratko Licina, minister

[Spectator]

Are there really 9 million of Serbs in Turkey? Is it officially confirmed? Do they have an organization of their own?

Why didn't they assimilate among the Turks?

[Serbian_Radical_Party]

Are there really 9 million of Serbs in Turkey? Is it officially confirmed? Do they have an organization of their own?

Its of course confirmed. This has been known since 1918.
http://www.srpskadijaspora.info/vest.asp?id=11585

Do they have an organization of their own?

It is writting in the above text.. Please read it in the text.

Why didn't they assimilate among the Turks?

Why did not the luzicki Serbs [who still live in Germany]
assimilate among Germans? The same counts for the Serbs in Turkey. 

[Spectator]

Are there really 9 million of Serbs in Turkey? Is it officially confirmed? Do they have an organization of their own?

Its of course confirmed. This has been known since 1918.
http://www.srpskadijaspora.info/vest.asp?id=11585

I didn't see where this article says about it. Still this is a very interesting article that also says Serbian was one of four official languages of the Ottoman Empire and there were many Serbian high-ranking political and military officials.

[Spectator]

Do they have an organization of their own?

It is writting in the above text.. Please read it in the text.

Do you mean Inat? Inat is the Association of Serbian-Turkish friendship based in Belgrade. It is not the organization of Turkish Serbs.

http://www.inat.org.rs/Engleski/Index_s.html
http://www.inat.org.rs/Engleski/Kontakt.html

[Serbian_Radical_Party]

I didn't see where this article says about it. Still this is a very interesting article that also says Serbian was one of four official languages of the Ottoman Empire and there were many Serbian high-ranking political and military officials.

I will ask the author of the text about the sources.

It seems that you know to read Serbian very well 

[Spectator]

Why did not the luzicki Serbs [who still live in Germany]
assimilate among Germans? The same counts for the Serbs in Turkey. 

I think the difference is that while Luzice Serbs have always lived in their own land (even though it is inside Germany for many centuries), Muslim Serbs emigrated to Turkey because they viewed it as a better place than Serbia proper, besides Turkey offered better conditions to practice their Muslim religion.

[Serbian_Radical_Party]

I think the difference is that while Luzice Serbs have always lived in their own land (even though it is inside Germany for many centuries),

Many Germans of Eastern-Germany are germanized Serbs.
1000 years ago the population of Luzicki Serbs was much higher as it is today.

[Spectator]

It seems that you know to read Serbian very well 

Thank you. It is not my merit. It is because Russian was highly influenced with South Slavic lexics and grammar in medieval times. In some aspects, Russian is more similar to Bulgarian and Serbian than to Ukrainian and Belarussian.

[Spectator]

SRP, what do you think about one of the comments to the article by Dejan:

Kakva je razlika izmedju Srba u Srbiji i Srba u Turskoj.DRASTICNA.Srbi koji zive u Turskoj imaju turska imena i prezimena i vise ne govore Srpski.Oni su identicni sa Turcima. U proslosti su se borili za ropstvo Srbije pod Turskom vlascu,a ne za oslobadjanje od Turske vlasti.

What is the difference between Serbs in Serbia and Serbs in Turkey? Drastic one. Serbs who live in Turkey have Turkish first and last names and don't speak Serbian anymore. They are identical to Turks. In past, they struggled for Serbian slavery to Turks, not for liberation from Turkish rule.

 

[Serbian_Radical_Party]

Dejan is looking at this all from an other (hostile) perspective.
That kind of perspective is not understadable in this case. This because the article is stating that we are dealing with Serbs who emigrated to Turkey; that happend because of certain factors. Their emigration to Turkey is explained and understandable.

Of course many Serbs who were converted into Muslims and Catholics became extremely hostile towards their original relatives, Orthodox Serbs.
Those ex-Serbs have their own names and identity. This does not count for all Serbs of the Muslim religion, what is clearly confirmed by the article.
The Muslim Serbs who became loyal to Turks and fought for Turkish interest against Serbia, integrated [assimilated] a long time ago into other nations, Croatian and Bosniak. The Muslim Serbs who have been aware of their Serbian heritage, still identify them selves with Serbs..

So I reject Dejan's statement that all Muslim Serbs are to be compared with those Muslim Serbs who accepted a new nationality. Muslim Serbs of Turkey openly declared that they are Serbs and not Bosniaks! We must respect that!
We must be strictly aware of the fact that there are also Serbian Muslims who did not want to assimilate into new nations. 

Dejan is not right when he claims that Serbs in Turkey are not speaking Serbian.
Somebody who is informed about facts, facts claim that Serbs of Turkey speak Serbian, will reject Dejan's claim.

[Mehmetce]

There is no serbs in Turkey at all,never existed.
This is lie.

[Serbian_Radical_Party]

Mehmetce 

What about those people who still speak Serbian in Turkey and still maintain Serbian tradition in a certain degree?

What about the Serbian-Turkish organization of Enat, who maintains friendly ties between Serbs and Turks?

What about the Muslim Serbs who emigrated to Turkey during the collapse of the Ottomanic Empire and the occupation Austro-Hungary?

[voo-yo]

"Serbs in Turkey", if there really are any, are NOT our brothers. I don't care if their blood is pure and their genes perfect, they are MUSLIMS.
Their ancestors left Bosnia in 1878 and Serbia in 1912, because they considered Turkey to be their country. As the matter of fact, we expelled a lot of them. They can't be our brothers, they sold their faith for a piece of bread, they sided with the occupier, they helped the Turks to keep is in chains for 400 years. If there still is some sense of serbian nationality in them, it is a serbian muslim nationality. They would like Serbia to become a muslim country. Now, if you are not really religious, that would be ok with you. But, if you really believe in God, you would do anything to not let that happen. This means we must send the remaining muslims out of Serbia and Bosnia, or they must convert, like Kusturica.
Now, go read some epic serbian poetry, and learn who is your brother, and who isn't.

[Serbian_Radical_Party]

Brother,

They were forced to accept Islam under extreme circumstances.
Not all of them accepted voluntarily Islam. Some of them did that in order to survive, others did it in order to gain career. So you can not generalize them like that..

Its better that they are aware of their Serbian heritage.
If you condemn them like that, than they may assimilate in Bosniaks, for example.

[voo-yo]

I don't care where they assimilate. We don't accept muslims.

[Spectator]

It must be a great tragedy of Serbian people that so many Serbs were forced to abandon their nationality and/or religion.

[Mehmetce]

Well ok,as far as I know there is no Serbs because I don't see them.
There are some Albanians,Bosnaks,Macedonians,Bulgarians,Greeks and all the others.
You may describe muslim serbs (bosnaks) as serbs but I don't.If they are not chrsitian,they are not serbs.
But no Serbs,This is maybe becuase of the war and violent acts which took place in 1990s and Turkish media showed the Serbs as evil.

[voo-yo]

It must be a great tragedy of Serbian people that so many Serbs were forced to abandon their nationality and/or religion.

It's similar to Jewish fate, I think. How many of them are now muslim Arabs, or Catholics?

[Serbian_Radical_Party]

I don't care where they assimilate. We don't accept muslims.

Come on Vojoo.
Please brother.

If for example Serbs who emigrated to America, after 1945, became protestants or atheists. They may lost their Serbian religion, but genetically they are Serbs, our own flesh and blood. So if we tolerate Serbian atheists of America and Serbian Catholics of Germany, why can not we also tolerate Serbian Muslims, who live in Turkey and are aware of their Serbian roots?

Serbian people who assimilated into Croats and Roman-Catholics have placed Orthodox Serbs in extermination camps during WW2. But still we do not condemn all Catholics. We do not do that. Why hating Muslim Serbs of Turkey who were victims of colonial powers, which converted them, and who are aware of their Serbian heritage?

[voo-yo]

Well ok,as far as I know there is no Serbs because I don't see them.
There are some Albanians,Bosnaks,Macedonians,Bulgarians,Greeks and all the others.
You may describe muslim serbs (bosnaks) as serbs but I don't.If they are not chrsitian,they are not serbs.
But no Serbs,This is maybe becuase of the war and violent acts which took place in 1990s and Turkish media showed the Serbs as evil.

Exactly! You're a Turk, right?
Those Turks of serbian origin will never say they are of serbian origin. They will always say they are Bosnians, Bosniaks etc.
It's because we feel great hostility towards them, and they to us. We fought bitterly between each other for hundreds of years, unlike Greeks, Bulgarians and other Balkan nations.

[Spectator]

It must be a great tragedy of Serbian people that so many Serbs were forced to abandon their nationality and/or religion.

It's similar to Jewish fate, I think. How many of them are now muslim Arabs, or Catholics?

Yes, Jews have lost millions of people because of forced or voluntary assimilation. There we many such Jews in Ancient Assyria (only 2 tribes remained while 10 were taken captive and disappeared), Roman Empire, in Spain, later in Eastern Europe and Russia and now in US.

[Serbian_Radical_Party]

Well OK,as far as I know there is no Serbs because I don't see them.
There are some Albanians,Bosnaks,Macedonians,Bulgarians,Greeks and all the others.
You may describe Muslim Serbs (bosnaks) as Serbs but I don't.If they are not chrsitian,they are not Serbs.
But no Serbs,This is maybe because of the war and violent acts which took place in 1990s and Turkish media showed the Serbs as evil.

So you are ignoring the existence of the Serbian-Turkish friendship organization [Enat], which is also active on Turkish soil? You are not informed enough. You can go to Istanbul and encouter these Muslim Serbs.

Serbs are originally Christians, but on Serbian occupied territories colonial powers forced local Serbs to accept the religion of the occupying forces.

Do you really think that during the 500-year long Turkish occupation, Turkish authorities were not able to convert Serbs into Muslims? Of course they were able to conduct that. Where are those Muslim Serbs today? Most of them assimilated into new nations. They call them selves Bosniaks today. But they still speak Serbian. This confirms the assimilation of some Serbs.

On the other side, Catholic Empires ruled 1000 years long with Serbian territories and converted many Serbs into Catholics, who were later convinced to assimilate into Croatians.

So you have besides Orthodox Serbs, also Muslim and Catholic Serbs.
Muslim and Catholic Serbs from the Balkans were assimilated into new nations [Croatian and Bosniak]. Muslim Serbs from Turkey, condemn that and their representatives state that that is an immoral action.

[voo-yo]

If for example Serbs who emigrated to America, after 1945, became protestants or atheists.

I don't need to cut them off, they cut themselves off, and won't be returning here.

So if we tolerate Serbian atheists

They are bad Serbs, but still Serbs.

Serbian Catholics of Germany

Never heard of such a case.

why can not we also tolerate Serbian Muslims, who live in Turkey and are aware of their Serbian roots?

They are not bad Serbs, they are good Turks.

Serbian people who assimilated into Croats and Roman-Catholics have placed Orthodox Serbs in extermination camps during WW2. But still we do not condemn all Catholics. We do not do that.

My opinion on them is the same, if not worse.

Why hating Muslim Serbs of Turkey who were victims of colonial powers, who converted them, and who are aware of their Serbian heritage?

Don't make me laugh. They willingly accepted Islam, and to this day they didn't convert back.

[Serbian_Radical_Party]

Don't make me laugh. They willingly accepted Islam, and to this day they didn't convert back.

If we hate them than they will not return to their original roots.
We who remained Orthodox Serbs must be an example. Problem is that current Orthodox Serbs are not behaving like real Orthodox Christians and that's why converted Serbs can not take example from us.

Serbian Catholics of Germany
Never heard of such a case.

They are called luziciki Serbs and were Catholized during the establishment of the Vatican in 1054.