Is Israeli Supreme Court Really This Wicked?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Ben, it would be a waste of time trying to explain to you how Hashem created the universe. At this time all we know is what Hashem told us, and science is trying to observe as much as it can. We can say that Hashem certainly existed before the 'big bang' which physics has been theorizing is the start of all physicality which we know. Hashem existed before time and before space, as they were some of the first things created according to the Torah.

http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48951136.html

we surely don't need G-d to explain the big bang.

Of course we don't, but that wasn't what Muman claimed.  In fact, he claimed exactly the opposite.  He is pointing out a very important point which is that G-d preceded the physical world.   So a physical phenomenon such as the Big Bang which occurred in time and space, is quite obviously after G-d's creation of the world.  And to seek to explain that in any other way than scientific explanations of the physical world would be foolhardy misguided.   So Muman was correct, and you haven't offered anything here.

acording to steven hocking godthe big bang is the beginingof time.and surely the begnining of space.

What existed before the 'big bang'?

Clearly time and space did, but since the big bang as postulated by scientists occurred by the laws of Einstein's equations, then apparently Einstein's equations existed too, and according to a very confused person who wants to conflate the big bang with G-d's act of creation of the world from nothing (which the "big bang" event most certainly is NOT), then Einstein's laws created the universe 

I say clearly time and space did because most physicists today believe in the multiverse theory.

[muman613]

I think we have gone entirely off topic. I think we should discuss physics and Torah in the Torah section again...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

This should help discern the truth:

Laloum in his own words:

http://www.haaretz.com/magazine/week-s-end/a-man-where-there-are-no-men-1.296953


Rabbi Yakov Yosef exits struggle due to physical threats to his children and grandchildren (he himself was attacked physically twice at his yeshiva).

http://vidyid.com/rabbi-yaakov-yosef-quits-emmanuel-school-struggle-after-being-threatened.html

JPost took down their original article or else I would have cited that. 

I can quote you the original text though, before jpost altered the article and removed reference to Rabbi Yosef.

It was here.  http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=178909
Rabbi leaves activity against racism after receiving threats.
By JONAH MANDEL, ABE SELIG AND JPOST.COM STAFF

Rabbi Ya'acov Yoseph, the spiritual mentor of the group that filed the petition against the Emmanuel school, has decided to stop his activities against racial discrimination, after he and his family have been threatened. In addition, the High Court of Justice on Sunday will decide whether to enforce its order to imprison the mothers from Emmanuel, who did not show up on Thursday for the beginning of their two-week incarceration.

Rabbi Ya'acov Yoseph announced on Saturday night that he was ceasing his activities against racial discrimination in the Emmanuel Beit Ya'acov school, following a recent influx of threats on members of his family, including his children and grandchildren. “So long the threats were aimed at me, I continued my struggle. But now that my family members are being targeted, I'm quitting,” he was quoted by Kikar Hashabat as saying.

Yoseph is the spiritual mentor of Yoav Laloum, who along with his NGO Noar Kahalacha filed the original petition against the segregation at the Emmanuel school. He is also the son of Shas spiritual leader and senior Sepharadi adjudicator Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, who repeatedly spoke out against turning to a secular court for arbitration, rather than to a rabbinical court. Haredi assailants had also affronted Ya'acov Yosef on more than one occasion on Thursday, but he was not harmed.

Israel Radio cited Ya'acov Yosef as saying that there remain 33 rabbis dedicated to fighting racial discrimination in the haredi world, but they will remain anonymous to ensure their safety and steadfastness in their struggle.

Twenty-two mothers and thirty-five fathers were supposed to begin two-week jail terms for holding the court in contempt, after they refused to return their daughters to the school, once the walls dividing between the “hassidic track” and the rest of the schools were removed at the court's order. Most of the fathers involved showed up at the police station on Thursday and began serving their time.

The court ruled that the segregation within the school was illegal as it was racially motivated, evident in the fact that it divided between Sephardi girls and the Ashkenazi ones from Slonim hassidut families. The Slonim parents insisted that the motivation behind the separation was religious stringency, and as proof cited the fact that a number of Sephardi girls were accepted to the hassidic track. Three Sephardi fathers were among those imprisoned on Thursday.

A few of the missing mothers are pregnant, some are breastfeeding, and most have many children. Devora Fuksman, one of them, gave birth to a girl on Thursday night. Her husband, Yehuda, stayed by his wife during the birth of his twelfth child, and reported to the Maasiyahu Prison on Friday morning. Two more fathers still have not reported to jail.

After the parents' lawyer requested that the mothers not be jailed, the Attorney-General met with representatives of the Ministry of Welfare and Social Services, who advised him to take the children's welfare into consideration. The ministry is prepared to take care of the 250 children whose parents were sentenced, and has appointed a social worker to each family.

Attorney-General Yehuda Weinstein has already recommended that the Court waive its order to incarcerate the mothers of Beit Ya'acov school pupils.

Late Thursday night, Weinstein held a meeting at the Justice Ministry, in which he praised the police on their non-violent behavior during the protests accompanying the jailing of the Emmanuel fathers.

On Friday, Yoav Laloum and the Noar Kahalacha NGO that originally petitioned the court against the racist division in the Beit Ya'acov school, requested of the High Court to free the fathers.

"Incarceration is not an effective way to enforce the High Court's decision in this matter," they wrote in their new petition. The court did not convene for a discussion on the matter on Friday, and said it would debate the issue on Sunday.

Later that Friday, the young boys whose fathers are imprisoned showed up at the gates of the Ma'asiyahu Prison in their Shabbat finest, to strengthen the spirit of their missing parents. The boys and adults who brought them there held signs wishing the fathers a “git Shabbos” and expressing their support. They also sang traditional Slonim Shabbat tunes and danced. Their request to enter the prison to meet the fathers was turned down by the Prisons Service.

MK Yohanan Plessner (Kadima) called on Saturday for the prime minister and the education minister to remove Deputy Education Minister Meir Porush (United Torah Judaism) from office, who on Tuesday had announced that he would move his offices to the gates of the jail where the fathers are being held. Plessner said that it was unacceptable that MK Porush would use his office and government resources to lead a protest against a ruling of the High Court.

In a similar reaction to Porush's expression of discontent from the court's ruling, MK Nitzan Horowitz issued a statement inviting “Porush and his friends, who hold the Zionist State and its rules in contempt, to leave the government and put an end to the suffering they undergo when accepting fundings and supports from the state they do not recognize.”

“Porush's stance does not represent the Ministry's,” Education Minister Gideon Sa'ar told Channel Two on Saturday, in response to his deputy minister's stance against the court's ruling and in support of the parents right to heed their rabbi. Sa'ar further noted “the quiet and non-violent demonstrations” on Thursday, which were “a manifestation of the legitimate right of protest.”

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

When people are bullying and threatening and physically attacking, it is almost a guarantee that the truth is not on their side.   The thuggary has become commonplace for the meaningless and destructive UTJ political "struggles."

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3906845,00.html

[muman613]

I dont have time now to look deeply into the issue. My initial response is that all the media which you cite are considered, at least by me, to be left wing publications {Ha'aretz, Ynet, and Jpost}...

But I will leave an open mind and look at what has been written. I am very unhappy that this schism has to occur when Israel really needs unity in the face of mounting world pressure.

Let me also add that any attack on a Rabbi like this is a serious issue. I hope that the Chassidic Rabbis condemn this activity. Nowhere does Torah {in my understanding} give the right to act in such a manner.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I dont have time now to look deeply into the issue. My initial response is that all the media which you cite are considered, at least by me, to be left wing publications {Ha'aretz, Ynet, and Jpost}... 

It doesn't make a difference.  Read the actual articles.  They interviewed the person who logged the complaint to the Supreme Court.  He answers the questions in his own words.  The notion of media bias is hardly a factor there.   So do you think the person who made the original complaint would have some idea what the complaint was about?   It doesn't matter if jpost, ynet, or an alien interviewed him.  It's an interview.

And reporting on the attacks on Rabbi Yakov Yosef, or his own comments related to the issue, also have little to do with the media outlet's bias.  Unless you can somehow show in what way that is relevant particularly here.  I don't see it.   

Let me also add that any attack on a Rabbi like this is a serious issue. I hope that the Chassidic Rabbis condemn this activity. Nowhere does Torah {in my understanding} give the right to act in such a manner.

I have not seen any condemnation whatsoever, from hasidic or any other rabbi.    The Shastitute party was too busy condemning bringing the case to secular courts though....  Where can they find the time to defend human dignity?

[Maimonides]

When people are bullying and threatening and physically attacking, it is almost a guarantee that the truth is not on their side.   The thuggary has become commonplace for the meaningless and destructive UTJ political "struggles."

Just because people are emotional and threatening to be violent does not mean there is no truth in their arguments. After all, HaRav Kahane would always threaten to get violent with Nazis and refuse to debate them, so does that mean there was no truth in his arguments.

[Maimonides]

I dont have time now to look deeply into the issue. My initial response is that all the media which you cite are considered, at least by me, to be left wing publications {Ha'aretz, Ynet, and Jpost}... 

It doesn't make a difference.  Read the actual articles.  They interviewed the person who logged the complaint to the Supreme Court.  He answers the questions in his own words.  The notion of media bias is hardly a factor there.   So do you think the person who made the original complaint would have some idea what the complaint was about?   It doesn't matter if jpost, ynet, or an alien interviewed him.  It's an interview.

And reporting on the attacks on Rabbi Yakov Yosef, or his own comments related to the issue, also have little to do with the media outlet's bias.  Unless you can somehow show in what way that is relevant particularly here.  I don't see it.   

Let me also add that any attack on a Rabbi like this is a serious issue. I hope that the Chassidic Rabbis condemn this activity. Nowhere does Torah {in my understanding} give the right to act in such a manner.

I have not seen any condemnation whatsoever, from hasidic or any other rabbi.    The Shastitute party was too busy condemning bringing the case to secular courts though....  Where can they find the time to defend human dignity?

Take a look at this article by Moshe Feiglin

http://jewishisrael.org/eng_contents/articles/article7044.html

The demonization campaign against the Haredim is pre-meditated – no doubt about it. Suddenly, everyone is very concerned over what subjects the Haredim are teaching their students. Suddenly the leftist, secular, Ashkenazi elites wake up and bemoan the small numbers of Sephardic girls in the Chassidic schools.

It is not too difficult to figure out where the source of this ugly wave of anti-Semitism hides. Those people who have everything to gain from the "secular" name-brand are Tzippy Livni and media-personality and aspiring politician Yair Lapid. The politics of hate are very effective. Ehud Barak waged an anti-Haredi campaign and became prime minister. Tommy Lapid won an amazing election victory with anti-Semitic tactics, Tzippy Livni also won over incited voters in the last elections and Tommy's son, Yair wants a piece of the action, as well.

The promotional firms and their well-funded clients are cooking up a political big-bang for the Israeli public. Recent history has proven that when Israeli society moves Right, hatred for the settlers does not bring in the votes. So who will be the bad guy? Which witch will the raging mob learn to hate and hunt down? Who else but the Haredim?

The problem in Emanuel is not Ashkenazi discrimination against Sephardic Jews. 30% of the students in the school in question are Sephardic. The real question in this case is: Who determines what education our children will receive – the parents, who ostensibly have the right to educate their children according to their beliefs, or the State and its justice system?

Manhigut Yehudit has always been an egalitarian movement that does not differentiate between Ashkenazic or Sephardic, observant or non-observant Jews. But this open approach must be a product of free choice and not of coercion. We believe that schools should unconditionally accept all children who would like to learn. But we can certainly honor the desire of parents who, in this age of permissiveness and rebelliousness, choose to keep their children in a more closed learning environment.

In Israel today, the Education Minister is the supreme authority over our children's education and can expropriate the parents' rights to determine the type of education they want for their children. This abnormal reality creates distortions, such as the attempt to force parents to send their daughters to an educational track that does not meet their educational/spiritual standards under the threat of fines and imprisonment.

There are thousands of children who illegally do not attend school in Israel. Some of them even illegally work for their parents, or work with their active consent. But these children are mostly Bedouin or Arabs, so no public storm clouds will burst over the issue and the "rule of law" will not have its way. But when the parents in question are Haredi and are doing their utmost so that their daughters attend school, the court will not hesitate to show them who is the boss. The media will accuse the parents of racism, the war drums will beat and the public atmosphere will become hateful and closed-minded.

Essentially, we are all in the same boat. The Supreme Court, which has nowhere near 30% representation of Sephardic Jews on its lofty bench, should not be allowed to force its values on the parents of Emanuel. Manhigut Yehudit is not in favor of segregation, but we are totally opposed to coercion of values in any realm - and certainly in the all-important educational realm.

The educational "seminar in jail" that the Supreme Court has imposed upon the Emanuel parents for their refusal to send their daughters back to school is reminiscent of the "educational seminar" to which the Jews opposed to the Expulsion from Gush Katif were treated by the courts. Now, when the media is hunting down witches and the flames of hatred are being fanned high, we must stand united with the Haredi public. This struggle is the struggle of every Jew who cares about individual liberties and the Jewish nature of this country.