Beth Hamikdash (The Temple)

[Mizrahi 4 LIFE]

i say wait for Moshiach

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

i say wait for Moshiach

Why?

I say do what the halacha compels us to do.   Just as Jews do in every situation.

Now can I ask how you will recognize the moshiach ?  Isn't one of his duties to build the temple and only then we determine that he has fulfilled the criteria of being moshiah?   In that case it makes no logical sense to wait for anything.  Someone has to initiate building this thing. 

[Mizrahi 4 LIFE]

i say wait for Moshiach

Why?

I say do what the halacha compels us to do.   Just as Jews do in every situation.

Now can I ask how you will recognize the moshiach ?  Isn't one of his duties to build the temple and only then we determine that he has fulfilled the criteria of being moshiah?   In that case it makes no logical sense to wait for anything.  Someone has to initiate building this thing. 

the Talmud, the Rambam and other great rabbis have said we cant build it ourselves. were not even allowed by Halacha to go to the Temple Mount

[JTFenthusiast2]

Welcome Mizrahi,

I hope you enjoy your time here and I jope that you are not a troll.  I think you deserve the benefit of the doubt

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

i say wait for Moshiach

Why?

I say do what the halacha compels us to do.   Just as Jews do in every situation.

Now can I ask how you will recognize the moshiach ?  Isn't one of his duties to build the temple and only then we determine that he has fulfilled the criteria of being moshiah?   In that case it makes no logical sense to wait for anything.  Someone has to initiate building this thing. 

the Talmud, the Rambam and other great rabbis have said we cant build it ourselves. were not even allowed by Halacha to go to the Temple Mount

The Rambam said no such thing.  The Talmud said no such thing.   You are lying.   Do not distort the Torah here.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

were not even allowed by Halacha to go to the Temple Mount

Oh yeah, what "halacha" would that be?

There are rabbis going up there all the time.   The Rambam himself went up.   Did he break the halacha to do so?   You are speaking nonsense.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Rambam

הִלְכּוֹת בֵּית הַבְּחִירָה.  יֵשׁ בִּכְלָלָן שֵׁשׁ מִצְווֹת--שָׁלוֹשׁ מִצְווֹת עֲשֵׂה, וְשָׁלוֹשׁ מִצְווֹת לֹא תַעֲשֶׂה; וְזֶה הוּא פְּרָטָן:  (א) לִבְנוֹת מִקְדָּשׁ;

The first halacha he lists in Beit Habechira in Sefer Avoda is a misswath aseh to build the Temple.

Look in the Sefer Hamisswoth.

Aside from the Rambam whom you fraudulently misrepresented, Rabbi Benyamin Kahane ZT"L also wrote about the fact that we, men, people, will build the Temple, as I'm sure his father agreed with him, and there are plenty of Acharonim after the Rambam who also did not subscribe to the view that the Temple will fall from the sky.     Even those who do subscribe to that view, where in the world did you get the idea that it is "FORBIDDEN" to build it?    It's an explicit  Talmud Yerushalmi which says we will build it.   So how can it be forbidden?     Oh, and I didn't invent that logic or come up with that point of view.   No, the credit belongs to Rav Kook ZT"L who answered this way in a teshuva.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Done lying now?

[muman613]

We can surely build the Third Temple...

You realize both of our Holy Temples were built by the hands of man, and so will the Third one... There is no such thing as it coming down from heaven, this was made up by Rabbis in the Galut...

Rabbi Richman from A7 just yesterday spoke of the necessity for the Temple to be rebuilt by man...

I voted "tear down the ugly mosque and build the Temple"!

[eb22]

We can surely build the Third Temple...

You realize both of our Holy Temples were built by the hands of man, and so will the Third one... There is no such thing as it coming down from heaven, this was made up by Rabbis in the Galut...

Rabbi Richman from A7 just yesterday spoke of the necessity for the Temple to be rebuilt by man...

I voted "tear down the ugly mosque and build the Temple"!

muman613,    would you happen to know what the consensus opinion from Chabad is?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

We can surely build the Third Temple...

You realize both of our Holy Temples were built by the hands of man, and so will the Third one... There is no such thing as it coming down from heaven, this was made up by Rabbis in the Galut...

Well, it is hinted at in the Talmud Bavli and Rashi explains that it will fall from the sky.  So yes, he is technically a rabbi of the galut, but moreso, I think his view there (likewise the Talmudic opinion that suggests or hints at this is) is a product of his time and place - that he could realistically think that is possible or that that is how God interacts in the world is a product of where he lives and in what time period and the theological viewpoints and influences that had become prominent.  (Yes, galut influences).   I think in the modern world this view is completely unbelievable, and I don't think many of its proponents in history would still cling to this view if they lived in our time.   

But it's not really true to say "there's no such thing as..." because that opinion does exist, and many people today among the masses mistakenly/blindly believe in it, but I agree with you if you assert it is mistaken.

[muman613]

We can surely build the Third Temple...

You realize both of our Holy Temples were built by the hands of man, and so will the Third one... There is no such thing as it coming down from heaven, this was made up by Rabbis in the Galut...

Well, it is hinted at in the Talmud Bavli and Rashi explains that it will fall from the sky.  So yes, he is technically a rabbi of the galut, but moreso, I think his view there (likewise the Talmudic opinion that suggests or hints at this is) is a product of his time and place - that he could realistically think that is possible or that that is how G-d interacts in the world is a product of where he lives and in what time period and the theological viewpoints and influences that had become prominent.  (Yes, galut influences).   I think in the modern world this view is completely unbelievable, and I don't think many of its proponents in history would still cling to this view if they lived in our time.   

But it's not really true to say "there's no such thing as..." because that opinion does exist, and many people today among the masses mistakenly/blindly believe in it, but I agree with you if you assert it is mistaken.

Then I stand corrected...

But listen to Rabbi Richman talk about this topic @ http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/138679

Rabbi Richman on the 9th of Av: Stop Mourning, Start Yearning
by Yoni Kempinski

Many tens of thousands spend Tisha B’Av, or parts of it, at the Western Wall – which, together with the Temple Mount, is the sole remnant of the Second Temple. Visitors, as do Jews the world over, spend hours mourning the destruction, the Exile of the Divine Presence and the unredeemed state of the Nation of Israel by reciting and studying the traditional Tisha B’Av lamentations and the Scroll of Eichah (Lamentations).
 
The Temple Institute of Jerusalem calls for rebuilding the Temple now that Israel is an independent state as a proactive way of bringing the Redemption.
 
In the following video, Rabbi Chaim Richman of the Temple Institute in Jerusalem vehemently calls on marking the fast of the 9th of Av as a day of prayer, yearning and looking ahead to the future.
 
Rabbi Richman says that the Jewish people has become so associated with mourning, destruction and loss that people today feel that action is not necessary and that the next temple will fall from the sky. The prayer should be not "may G-d build our Temple speedily in our days" but rather "may we merit, by G-d's will, to build the Temple". The interview ends with a clear statement for action by the Rabbi: "Let's stop mourning on Tisha B'av," by which he means that we must not just mourn, we must turn the day into one of yearning for the Temple service that is translated into action.

INN adds that despite the sadness of the day, the saddest part of the regular daily prayers - tachanun - is not recited, in the anticipation of the final joyous Redemption that will render Tisha B'Av a day of joy.
 
Years ago, it was the custom of  Jerusalem residents in the old quarters of the city  to whitewash and clean their homes to prepare for the Messiah as the fast drew to a close, in the hope that the Redemption would occur before sundown. Today, at the yearly reading of Eichah at the Mount Scopus ampitheatre overlooking the Old City by the Neve Orot Congregation of Ramot, Jerusalem, a bottle of wine is brought to greet the Messiah who it is hoped will arrive during the reading.
 

[muman613]

We can surely build the Third Temple...

You realize both of our Holy Temples were built by the hands of man, and so will the Third one... There is no such thing as it coming down from heaven, this was made up by Rabbis in the Galut...

Rabbi Richman from A7 just yesterday spoke of the necessity for the Temple to be rebuilt by man...

I voted "tear down the ugly mosque and build the Temple"!

muman613,    would you happen to know what the consensus opinion from Chabad is?

I am sorry to report that I have not discussed the particulars of the rebuilding of the Temple with my good Chabad Rabbis.... Last night I spent the evening listening to Rabbi Kagan reading the Eichah scroll to a dirgeful melody.

I know that Chabad is very positive that Moshiach is here, or he could be here if we are able to merit it through the observance of Mitzvot. Every Chabad Rabbi will do everything in his power in order to facilitate a Jew to observe the mitzvot. I got my Tefillin through a Chabad Rabbi and most of the good Rabbis I know are from Chabad {I know 4 Chabad Rabbis currently} and a few Modern Orthodox.

I know that the Chabad Rabbis I know are very supportive of Israel, have family in Israel, visit Israel regularly, know Rabbis who live there. Chabad Rabbis are not Kahanists, for sure, but they do support Jews in Israel and I have never heard them talk badly about the state.

That is about all I can say about this... I love Chabad and all they are doing for Jews all over the world. I believe we would be losing so many more Jews to assimilation and destruction.

One more story about Chabad. At the beginning of 2010 my father succumbed to pancreatic cancer. The evening of Jan 1, 2010 was a Friday night. I came to visit my father at his death bed that weekend, upon urgent notice. It being Erev Shabbat I needed to find a Chabad in Thousand Oaks California where my father lived with his wife. I was fortunate to find that there was a Chabad house within walking distance of my fathers house.

It was before sunset Friday and I drove to the Chabad center which was in a shopping center. When I went inside there was nobody there except the wonderful Rabbi. He asked me how I was, could he get me a drink, did I want to sit down, he was the living example of hachnasat orchim [ http://www.darchenoam.org/discussion/chesed2.htm ] .

It turned out there was not going to be a minyan at the center that night. I was a little sad to hear that but then the good Rabbi extended an invitation to have Shabbat dinner at his home. I took up his offer and we hurried to his home before sunset. His father was there and his wife and kids, and his beautiful home on the hill overlooking the city, and a library full of Talmud and Mishnah. I davened Minchah and then waited for dinner. While waiting I paged through some Talmud Gemaras I had heard about.

The dinner was spectacular and the company was brilliant. I had a magnificent time with the Rabbi and his family. Of course he invited me to stay over at his home after the meal because he did not want me to drive to my fathers house. It also turned out that the Rabbis house was only 12 blocks or so from my dads house. I walked to my fathers house and got some rest for Saturday. Saturday I walked to the Chabad center and waited outside the locked door because I had arrived early... But I saw the Rabbi coming down the road and I smiled broadly... I love Chabad and their Rabbis...

[muman613]

I would like to hope that we all can do Hachnasat Orchim some day... At this time I am unable to host people at my house because I need to do some major housecleaning...

http://www.darchenoam.org/discussion/chesed2.htm

Chesed Part 2: Hachnasat Orchim & Shabbat

The Special Connection between Shabbat and Inviting Guests:
There is something special about hachnasat orchim, hosting guests, on Shabbat. Even people who host infrequently during the other six days of the week, often feel something is missing if they do not have Shabbat guests at their table.

What is the explanation for this special connection between hachnasat orchim and Shabbat? There certainly are practical reasons – 1. There is more time available for hosting on Shabbat than during the rest of the week; 2. It is convenient to invite guests on the day that we are anyways preparing special meals; 3. The mitzva of eating the Shabbat meals is often more joyfully fulfilled in a larger group and in a family setting.

A suggestion for explaining this phenomenon: Perhaps Shabbat is especially aligned with hachnasat orchim (not only a practically appropriate time to fulfill the mitzva of hachnasat orchim). Shabbat has a unique aspect that other mitzvot do not – "Kabbalat Shabbat", Greeting the Shabbat. The Rambam (Mishneh Torah, Hilkhot Shabbat 30:2) describes how the mitzva of honoring Shabbat includes washing, dressing up, and “sitting seriously as one waiting to greet the King. The early sages would gather their disciples, cloaked in talitot and say, ‘Let us go out to greet the Shabbat the King.’”

We relate to Shabbat as a personality, not just as a particular mitzva performed on a particular day (this theme is developed by the author of "Shabbat Malketa" in his chapter on Kabbalat Shabbat). On Shabbat there is a special revelation of the Divine Presence, and the personality we welcome is the Shechina. [In a yahrzeit shiur in memory of his father (published in Shiurim L’zekher Avi Mori) Rav Soloveitchik points out the parallels between Shabbat preparations and preparations for prayer. He then shows how the distinction between Shabbat and Yom Tov is parallel to that between a synagogue and the Beit Hamikdash.]

Shabbat is defined as hosting the honored Divine guest visiting our home. It is, in a way, hachnasat orchim for the Shechina. Inviting guests, then, is the essence of Shabbat.

Inviting Guests is Greater than Receiving the Divine Presence
Inviting in human guests might even go a step beyond welcoming the Divine Presence. Chazal teach us, based on Avraham’s seemingly offbeat conduct, that receiving guests is greater than receiving the Divine Presence. Avraham interrupts his prophetic experience to run and greet the three guests. Why did Avraham do this and what is behind Chazal's seemingly radical statement?

The Nesivos Shalom explains: One shows a good friend how beloved he is by inviting him in to his home, showing him great hospitality. However, if a friend is especially dear, even if the friend's son shows up at your door you receive him with open arms, merely because he is your friend’s son. Inviting in guests, people who are G-d’s creations, His children, is an even greater sign of our love of G-d than actually receiving the Divine Presence. We love G-d so much that we are always ready to open up our homes to His children. This is why inviting in guests is greater than receiving the Divine Presence.

[eb22]

muman613,    thanks for the info.       Any time you do speak to one or more Chabad Rabbis about the conditions pertaining to building the Third Temple,   I would be very interested in reading what they mentioned.      I agree with your thoughts about Chabad.      From what I heard on my recent trip to Israel,   the Rebbe put a great emphasis on male Jews putting on Tefillin.      

If you do have the opportunity to go to Israel,    one place that I think you would really enjoy seeing is the town of Kfar Chabad.     They have a replica of 770 Eastern Parkway,   Brooklyn  (  Chabad Headquarters )  in Kfar Chabad.     One thing that stands out about Kfar Chabad is there are NO street signs in the town.    That's something I never saw prior to my visit to Israel.  

[muman613]

muman613,    thanks for the info.       Any time you do speak to one or more Chabad Rabbis about the conditions pertaining to building the Third Temple,   I would be very interested in reading what they mentioned.      I agree with your thoughts about Chabad.      From what I heard on my recent trip to Israel,   the Rebbe put a great emphasis on male Jews putting on Tefillin.      

If you do have the opportunity to go to Israel,    one place that I think you would really enjoy seeing is the town of Kfar Chabad.     They have a replica of 770 Eastern Parkway,   Brooklyn  (  Chabad Headquarters )  in Kfar Chabad.     One thing that stands out about Kfar Chabad is there are NO street signs in the town.    That's something I never saw prior to my visit to Israel.  

Wow...

Another interesting thing... Last night while saying goodnight to Rabbi Kagan an Israeli guy walks past and says something about "Uman" to him... Rabbi Kagan goes "Nachman Nachman MeUman" but I don't think he remembers that it is my last name. He said something about having gone to Uman a couple of times. I ask him about any local Breslov shuls and he jests to me that this shul {his Chabad house} is a Breslov shul... I am the only one at Chabad house who lets his peyos grow long but I am not ashamed of it. It is a Breslov custom and I believe that my ancestors used to let theirs grow too.

My Peyot are about this long..

[eb22]

It's great to see the positive impact that Chabad has made on you.           

One thing I've noticed is the variety of Jews who take part in Chabad activities.     The word that comes to mind that I believe best defines Chabad is  'OUTREACH '.   

[muman613]

It's great to see the positive impact that Chabad has made on you.           

One thing I've noticed is the variety of Jews who take part in Chabad activities.     The word that comes to mind that I believe best defines Chabad is  'OUTREACH '.   

Thank you, Baruch Hashem!