State of Judea - Yes or No?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

lets face it, 2 jews-5 opinions.

how about we just have a federation. where the main government handles the really important stuff, like borders, wars, foreign policy, naturalization/aliyah, currency, and have the provinces do everything else. we can have the religious people of judea-samaria have a religious government, and the leftists of tel-aviv have a leftist government.

The "main government" composed of the same traitors who are currently deciding Judea and Samaria's border shrink and disappear, while tel aviv's remain the same, and while they decide foreign policy of forming an enemy arab state in our heartland?   No thanks.

Either way your scenario is a pipe dream because the need for a state of Judea centers on the fact of life that the current regime and its controllers will not simply cede its power to another group or give up part of the control it has over Israeli society.   

The strength of a state of Judea concept is the following - if this ruling elite decides that Judea and Samaria is no longer part of "Israeli" society as they see it and which they rule over, then fine, we now offer them an alternative - Instead of arming arabs in place of Israeli presence, arm Jews in place of Israeli presence.  And instead of having a growing religious zionist population as enemy #1, the attempted destruction of which motivates many of the elites' decisions , and as a growing political rival who are a serious danger of democratically eroding the current elites' power base, this all-important sector will instead secede from the "israeli" nation (Disengage, if you will) and form their own, with their own military and government power, in locations where the "Israeli" elites have no interest governing and have no interest occupying.   They don't lose their power-grip over Israeli society in this scenario - in fact, their control grows.   (but ultimately, the borders of Judea would expand in the longterm, while the medinat Israel would shrink shrivel and die over the next generations - something that the elites will be in denial about til the end).

[Chai]

which is the flag for Judea



or this



which do you like more?

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

This one is very nice to look at.

[Meerkat]

looks OK, i still like the medinat israel flag a little more though. probably because im use to it.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

which is the flag for Judea



or this



which do you like more?

I like the second a lot better - much simpler.

Are there other types of menora designs out there?

[MassuhDGoodName]

I would like to see a large blue Lion of Judea added underneath the menorah.

[דוד בן זאב אריה]

Yes but we need the arabs out.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Yes but we need the arabs out.

Needless to say, there will be no "purity of arms" bureaucratic shackles to handcuff troops of the Judean military.  They will deal with problems as problems need to be dealt with.   The only moral code for the troops will be the one called for by Torah and halacha.   (Rambam is one of the few sources with detailed elaborations on the laws of Jewish military, but other sources exist as well).

[Meerkat]

lets face it, 2 jews-5 opinions.

how about we just have a federation. where the main government handles the really important stuff, like borders, wars, foreign policy, naturalization/aliyah, currency, and have the provinces do everything else. we can have the religious people of judea-samaria have a religious government, and the leftists of tel-aviv have a leftist government.

The "main government" composed of the same traitors who are currently deciding Judea and Samaria's border shrink and disappear, while tel aviv's remain the same, and while they decide foreign policy of forming an enemy arab state in our heartland?   No thanks.

Either way your scenario is a pipe dream because the need for a state of Judea centers on the fact of life that the current regime and its controllers will not simply cede its power to another group or give up part of the control it has over Israeli society.   
.....

of course i dont want the current israeli establishment to stay in power. we can just use something like the great compromise. 2 Knessets, one is representation based on population, the other, each province gets 6 senators regardless. (i know the original great compromise had the senate be 2/state, but i don't expect Israel to have to many provinces). judea and samaria each get 6 senators while tel-aviv ha-merkaz, also get 6 each, so that the leftists and the religious Zionists cannot interfere with eachother that much.

[Chai]

I like the second a lot better - much simpler.

Are there other types of menora designs out there?
[/quote]

Yes there are, and with Yawehs name



Its a shame the Jewish states flag isn't more Jewish

It can be bought there.




I for one would fly any of those over the star of 'David'
I think Rabbi Kahane wanted the flag to change as well does  anyone have pic of it please?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I like the second a lot better - much simpler.

Are there other types of menora designs out there?

Yes there are, and with Yawehs name 

Yaweh?

[muman613]

I like the second a lot better - much simpler.

Are there other types of menora designs out there?

Yes there are, and with Yawehs name 

Yaweh?

Come on... Some respect for the 'name' if you know what I mean....

BTW, we do not pronounce it... like that either..

What most say is "Yud Kay Vav Kay"

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I like the second a lot better - much simpler.

Are there other types of menora designs out there?

Yes there are, and with Yawehs name 

Yaweh?

Come on... Some respect for the 'name' if you know what I mean....

BTW, we do not pronounce it... like that either..

What most say is "Yud Kay Vav Kay"

That was why I asked my question.   (for some reason, you quoted me)

"Yaweh?"   

Maybe you can let him answer?

[IsraelForever]

I voted "No".  I don't believe that there should be an "Eretz Y'Israel" for this group and another "Eretz Y'Israel" for that group.  We should all be Jews living in one land -- i.e., our homeland, the land of Israel.  I believe it's really bad news if even Jews can't live with Jews.

[Chai]

I purposely used an incorrect  spelling of the name of god with English letters. That's what the letters o. The flag mean. . And I know most memebers are unaware of the ykvk way of saying it

If I'm mistaken I would love to learn more, I have allways been interested in that as well as the when the shemhamaforshim
I would never use the lords name in vane

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I voted "No".  I don't believe that there should be an "Eretz Y'Israel" for this group and another "Eretz Y'Israel" for that group.  We should all be Jews living in one land -- i.e., our homeland, the land of Israel.  I believe it's really bad news if even Jews can't live with Jews.

It sounds like you are confusing Eretz Yisrael with medinat Yisrael.   There is only one Eretz Yisrael no matter who is in power over what parcel of land.

If there is a Judean state, then medinat Israel is simply a foreign occupier who currently resides on part of Eretz Yisrael while Judea controls Eretz Yisrael's heartland.

It sure would be nice to live together and all, but it seems that the medinat Israel would rather kill us and live with muslim terrorists than to live with real Jews.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I purposely used an incorrect  spelling of the name of G-d with English letters. That's what the letters o. The flag mean. . And I know most memebers are unaware of the ykvk way of saying it

If I'm mistaken I would love to learn more, I have allways been interested in that as well as the when the shemhamaforshim
I would never use the lords name in vane

Oh.  People usually will say "yud kay vav kay"   or I guess you could say God's name and we'd know you refer to the 4-letter name.   I just thought it was odd that you used "Yaweh" because in grade school the textbooks used to describe God's name as "Hashem" and that Jews were a "cult of Hashem" - yet this pronunciation has pretty much nothing to do with the actual hebrew and I always found that odd too.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

We are forbidden to pronounce/say Hashem's Name. A HUGE sin.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

I would not support a permanent state of Judea.  I would only support a transitional state of Judea it if it was a Torah government that had the intent of expanding into all of Greater Israel.  Something like this would have to start out as a Maccabee-like movement that would not be afraid to execute Muslim terrorists and self-hating Jews because they have the conviction that G-d would fight their battles like with the Maccabees and the Jews of ancient times.  They would have to be willing to take on the IDF and not sell out to foreign influences or theories of government.  They would have to be righteous--G-d does not fight battles for people who aren't righteous.  I really don't think there is a group like that yet so.

One point I should make clear is knowing the Communist elite in Israel, it will never recognize Judea. Their problem
is the very existence of Jews in their historical homeland, where the Temple was shining from glory, where the Jews
lightened the Nations.

If somebody thinks Israel will just let the Jews have Judea and Samaria, he's doing a huge mistake and basic misunderstanding
of the situation. Israel will even go to war with Judea and Judea will not rest until it destroys the Israeli Defense Forces in warfare,
thus creating fear among the Communists from continuing their war against Judaism and right-wingers.

The choice is between a response to the war the Left (=The State of Israel) declared on us, which will be the creation of the State of Judea,
hence the continuation of a civil war (which is not always bad in its essence as the Maccabees showed us) - or unity in the huge graveyard
the State of Israel will become by own her creation - the State of Palestine (which is already, de facto, existing).

It's a choice between more Altalenas and a Second Holocaust on the one hand, and the Maccabee redemption on the other.

[Rubystars]

We are forbidden to pronounce/say Hashem's Name. A HUGE sin.

Even though I'm not Jewish when I saw the pronunciation key I scrolled past it quickly because I don't want to know how to pronounce it correctly because I don't want to say it in my sleep or something and be disrespectful.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I would not support a permanent state of Judea.  I would only support a transitional state of Judea it if it was a Torah government that had the intent of expanding into all of Greater Israel.  Something like this would have to start out as a Maccabee-like movement that would not be afraid to execute Muslim terrorists and self-hating Jews because they have the conviction that G-d would fight their battles like with the Maccabees and the Jews of ancient times.  They would have to be willing to take on the IDF and not sell out to foreign influences or theories of government.  They would have to be righteous--G-d does not fight battles for people who aren't righteous.  I really don't think there is a group like that yet so.

One point I should make clear is knowing the Communist elite in Israel, it will never recognize Judea. Their problem
is the very existence of Jews in their historical homeland, where the Temple was shining from glory, where the Jews
lightened the Nations.

If somebody thinks Israel will just let the Jews have Judea and Samaria, he's doing a huge mistake and basic misunderstanding
of the situation. 

There is no "letting" involved.   The Jews will achieve territorial concessions in a matter similar to the way the Arabs did.   That or be destroyed.    A tough choice to make - what they call, "between a rock and a hard place."

The choice is between a response to the war the Left (=The State of Israel) declared on us, which will be the creation of the State of Judea,
hence the continuation of a civil war (which is not always bad in its essence as the Maccabees showed us)

   

There is a way to avoid an all-out civil war and I think that should be a goal of any such movement.

[Rubystars]

If there is a civil war in Israel, many Jewish people will die, and that is something that should be avoided. Israel was supposed to be a safe place for Jews to live, away from the hatred of the Gentile nations. It's really a shame that even there, there is so much conflict and hatred against Jews that they can't even feel safe there.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Speaking of a state of Judea, here is the latest from Virtual Medinat Yehudah at http://virtualjudah.wordpress.com/

http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,49911.0.html

As you can see with the graphic at the header of that site, this fellow recommends a simple Chai symbol inside horizontal black bars as the provisional flag.   This makes it easy to spraypaint in propaganda efforts, requiring only a few quick strokes so the culprit can then run away.

[Malchut]

I voted not sure. A State of Judea should only come into existence at a time when either an Israeli pullout from the West Bank is a for sure thing, or the religious movement in Israel has absolutely no chance. Both of these conditions are not yet met. To the contrary I think the religious movement is getting more powerful. God willing we will see a religious government in all the Eretz Yisrael soon.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I voted not sure. A State of Judea should only come into existence at a time when either an Israeli pullout from the West Bank is a for sure thing, or the religious movement in Israel has absolutely no chance. Both of these conditions are not yet met. To the contrary I think the religious movement is getting more powerful. G-d willing we will see a religious government in all the Eretz Yisrael soon.

The religious factions in Israel will not get more powerful because the regime will not allow  them to.   Witness the current round of "peace talks" and surrender plans which are designed to uproot the religious nationalist society and rip apart the fabric of their communities by the shreds.    We have already witnessed this among the Aza population, whose lives were destroyed and some of whom are still wandering and looking for jobs.   There is no way to lead a political revolution or demographic-power transition when the members of the sector are all trying to put the pieces of their lives back together and simply survive.   Especially not with a tyrannical regime like the one we are dealing with who will use every trick in the book including illegal and antidemocratic measures to make sure that they do not lose their own power over their own type of state that they prefer.