Faggots and Fruit of Thy Loins

[mord]

You guys are talking apples and oranges.   

Yes i going to get a glass of orange juice

[ftf]

Avodah Zara? What is that? Is this something to do with the Babylonian talmud saying that Jesus was executed for being a sorceror?

[mord]

I think it has to do with the statues in churches and photos of saints

[Allen-T]

I think it has to do with the statues in churches and photos of saints

He said Christianity, those are exclusively Catholic ideas that are unbiblical. The 2nd Commandent says no graven images. 

[mord]

I think it has to do with the statues in churches and photos of saints

He said Christianity, those are exclusively Catholic ideas that are unbiblical. The 2nd Commandent says no graven images. 

Yes i was going to say that,but 1800 yrs ago the Orthodox and Catholics had a monopoly

[Dissenter]

I think it has to do with the statues in churches and photos of saints

He said Christianity, those are exclusively Catholic ideas that are unbiblical. The 2nd Commandent says no graven images.

This is one of those tricky areas where, in the words of Chaim, "we have to agree to disagree."

On another thread, someone attacked Jerry Falwell for believing in Israel not for the sake of the Jews, but for the sake of the Jews who will convert to Christianity.

However that may be, we must seek to rise above these differences. Otherwise, we'll leave ourselves wide open to a deliberate troublemaker like Fruit, who delighted in pointing them out in the hope of seeing us fight.

Whenever I see discussions like this one escalate into arguments, I'm reminded of the old story (repeated in The Hobbit, by J.R.R. Tolkien) of a hero who slew a gaggle of demons by throwing a stone into their midst, causing each demon to think that his neighbor had struck him. When all was said and done, every demon lay dead on the ground, and the hero emerged triumphant from his hiding place in the bushes.

We must try not to act like demons, lest our enemies destroy all of us.

[mord]

Fruit was funny a bit eccentric but funny as well as a good writer

[Lisa]

Dissenter is right.  I do not want to see fighting on this forum over religion.  We are all good people here.  So I don't see any point in criticizing each other's beliefs.  Let's direct our anger at the moosie fanatics who want to destroy America and Israel instead. 

[Dr. Dan]

I think it has to do with the statues in churches and photos of saints

He said Christianity, those are exclusively Catholic ideas that are unbiblical. The 2nd Commandent says no graven images.

This is one of those tricky areas where, in the words of Chaim, "we have to agree to disagree."

On another thread, someone attacked Jerry Falwell for believing in Israel not for the sake of the Jews, but for the sake of the Jews who will convert to Christianity.

However that may be, we must seek to rise above these differences. Otherwise, we'll leave ourselves wide open to a deliberate troublemaker like Fruit, who delighted in pointing them out in the hope of seeing us fight.

Whenever I see discussions like this one escalate into arguments, I'm reminded of the old story (repeated in The Hobbit, by J.R.R. Tolkien) of a hero who slew a gaggle of demons by throwing a stone into their midst, causing each demon to think that his neighbor had struck him. When all was said and done, every demon lay dead on the ground, and the hero emerged triumphant from his hiding place in the bushes.

We must try not to act like demons, lest our enemies destroy all of us.

OOO, what a great strategy...Throw a stone at a bunch of Muslims and blame it on the Shiite and then throw a stone at a bunch of Shia and blame it on the sunnis...and then throw a stone at the Chinese communists and blame it on Putin...hmmm...

[Joe Schmo]

There is NO reason to attack or bash anyone who is not attacking or bashing us. And I am speaking from the perspective of someone who studies (and applies) psychological warfare as more than a hobby.

I wasn't aware that 'psychological warfare' was a hobby.

[Dr. Dan]

I don't think we should be using words like f*****. I am a heterosexual, but what gay people do in private is none of my business, or anyone else's.

if gays were private about what they do, then I would agree. But way too many come out and are "proud" to be gay..making it not private anymore..so let the rebuking of homosexuality continue.

[Dr. Dan]

Re: if gays were private about what they do, then I would agree. But way too many come out and are "proud" to be gay..making it not private anymore..so let the rebuking of homosexuality continue.

Condemnation should focus on lewd public behavior and not on sexual orientation. While the idea of two men or women making out in the middle of the street is disgusting, the phrase "get a [motel] room" has often been directed at heterosexual couples who get too frisky in public.
[/quote]

It's not a matter of just being frisky... Homosexuality is against Judaism and Christianity.  Those who follow scriptures are required to consider the act homosexuality a sin. It's that simple.  Albiet, if someone is practicing homosexuality quietly in the privacy of their home, they may still be doing something against Gd, but no one has a right to go in their home and say something.  In addition, if someone i cared about confided in me, one should rebuke what they do, but are also required to be compassionate and offer help.

However, when a homosexual marches in a gay pride parade or are simply open about it and have no problem with it, they have permitted me and everyone else in their bed room.

Homosexuality is a type of kinky behavior.  It's like me annoucing to the whole world the way I like to have sex...that kind of talk shoudl be kept private..and actions like those do not need to be revealed.

And teh same goes with homosexuality..it is a type of sexual behavior that nobody needs to know about..and it is not something that shoudl be announced in a parade. That's evil!

[kahaneloyalist]

This is a religious Jewish forum, so the forum's position in regard to Homosexuality is that of the Torah.

There is NO reason to attack or bash anyone who is not attacking or bashing us. And I am speaking from the perspective of someone who studies (and applies) psychological warfare as more than a hobby.

I wasn't aware that 'psychological warfare' was a hobby.

Well, if you don't get paid for doing it, it might be considered one. I took enormous personal satisfaction, though, in using its techniques to destroy the original Million Mom March (even the NRA couldn't do that) and to cripple MoveOn.org last year--all legally and nonviolently. Hint; you don't attack the other side's rank and file, you persuade them that their own leaders are using and exploiting them, and lying to them. Another technique is to use the other side's own purported issues and positions against it. Want to get left-leaning women to stop supporting the PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis? Educate them on how the PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis kill women for "dishonoring" themselves, which includes being a rape victim.

Re: if gays were private about what they do, then I would agree. But way too many come out and are "proud" to be gay..making it not private anymore..so let the rebuking of homosexuality continue.

Condemnation should focus on lewd public behavior and not on sexual orientation. While the idea of two men or women making out in the middle of the street is disgusting, the phrase "get a [motel] room" has often been directed at heterosexual couples who get too frisky in public.

This is very interesting about the psychological warfare where did you learn about it?

[mord]

Winged Hussar  are you the famous Bill L

[Daniel]

Is there such a thing as gay Anti-Semitism?

If yes, do you think it is because Torah was the first holy book to condemn homosexuality officially, and both Christians and Muslims had no other choice but to adapt the same concept later?

Oh yes, we Christians just had no other choice but to adopt that "philosophy". Who would rationally reject the concept of a man jamming his [deleted] up another man's [deleted] where [deleted] is excreted from? Are you a butt bandit Zulu ben? 

My father once told me that since homosexuality was a big part of the Greek culture, Judaism then needed to condemn homosexuality in order to make themselves different. But then again, he's just a leftist reconstructionist. So what does he know?

[Daniel]

I don't think we should be using words like f*****. I am a heterosexual, but what gay people do in private is none of my business, or anyone else's.

We can use the militant "Islamic" world's oppression of gay people, which includes torturing and killing them, to undermine and even demolish anti-Israel "progressive" coalitions. I made a real mess of SF Bay Area Indymedia by posting articles about the PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazi Authority beating gay people, throwing them into raw sewage, and the like. As expected, the moderators censored my posts, which I promptly reposted on IsraPundit as proof that Indybay.org's support for gay rights ends where the militant Islamic world begins--hopefully causing them enormous credibility damage with their own gay constituents. I did the same with the militant "Islamic" world's treatment of women, and the women's rights issue.

There is NO reason to attack or bash anyone who is not attacking or bashing us. And I am speaking from the perspective of someone who studies (and applies) psychological warfare as more than a hobby.

I'm not so sure you were censored for criticizing the Muslims as much as it was for using the term "throwing them into raw sewage." I wonder what would happen if anyone were to write something like, "throw all the Zionists into raw sewage." There's a chance this still might be censored. But I'm not sure. Perhaps it would be something to experiment with and see what happens.

[Daniel]

If yes, do you think it is because Torah was the first holy book to condemn homosexuality officially, and both Christians and Muslims had no other choice but to adapt the same concept later?

What is this about Christians/Muslims "having no choice but to adapt?"

I think it's a matter of carrying on the concepts/laws they agreed with.  No one forced them.

I think that they have no choice but to adapt to the extent that if they don't conform to these behavioral practices, they'd probably get their heads lopped off.

[Daniel]

With my own personal experiences, I have known a few people who were gay. They all said the same thing, that they never elected to be this way. This is just the feelings that they experience. This is something that they needed to struggle with for a very long before realizing that they were in fact gay. This is still something they need to struggle with. It's not like they just woke up one day and decided to be rebellious and said, "Hey, ya know what? I think I'll be gay!" Anyone who does something like that or decides to experiment with homosexuality isn't truly gay.

I think it's important to differentiate between homosexual feelings and behavior. There are a good number of people who by no choice of their own, have homosexual feelings. But because of the religious, cultural, and societal pressures, they choose not to follow through with homosexual behavior. On the other hand, there are heterosexuals who experiment with homosexuality. But that in itself doesn't make them homosexual.

I often wonder what the solution is for gays. If they stay true to their feelings and have romantic relations with someone from their same gender, then they are "leading a disgusting lifestyle." However, if they deny their true feelings and end up having romantic relations and marrying someone of their opposite gender, then eventually, their homosexual feelings are going to compromise the relationship where the marriage will eventually come to an end. At that point, they would be accused of "breaking up the family unit." So what's the solution for them? Just stay in the closet for their entire lives and have no romantic relations?

I'm not trying to sound like Tonicali here and would see no point in trying to ask these questions or have these debates with Chaim since he views homosexuality as being equivalent to having sex with cows. I mean, really! It's one thing to be against it for religious purposes. But equating it with cows? There's no way you can have any type of rational debate when someone thinks like this!

[ftf]

I've jeard  of people who claim to be attracted to cows, horses, and even dogs, so what's the difference?

[Daniel]

I've jeard  of people who claim to be attracted to cows, horses, and even dogs, so what's the difference?

Bestiality is a fetish. Homosexuality is NOT a fetish! But as I stated before, anyone who equates homosexuality with cows cannot be rationally reasoned with on this issue.

[Dr. Dan]

Is there such a thing as gay Anti-Semitism?

If yes, do you think it is because Torah was the first holy book to condemn homosexuality officially, and both Christians and Muslims had no other choice but to adapt the same concept later?

Oh yes, we Christians just had no other choice but to adopt that "philosophy". Who would rationally reject the concept of a man jamming his [deleted] up another man's [deleted] where [deleted] is excreted from? Are you a butt bandit Zulu ben? 

My father once told me that since homosexuality was a big part of the Greek culture, Judaism then needed to condemn homosexuality in order to make themselves different. But then again, he's just a leftist reconstructionist. So what does he know?

The Torah is older than Greece.

[Dr. Dan]

With my own personal experiences, I have known a few people who were gay. They all said the same thing, that they never elected to be this way. This is just the feelings that they experience. This is something that they needed to struggle with for a very long before realizing that they were in fact gay. This is still something they need to struggle with. It's not like they just woke up one day and decided to be rebellious and said, "Hey, ya know what? I think I'll be gay!" Anyone who does something like that or decides to experiment with homosexuality isn't truly gay.

I think it's important to differentiate between homosexual feelings and behavior. There are a good number of people who by no choice of their own, have homosexual feelings. But because of the religious, cultural, and societal pressures, they choose not to follow through with homosexual behavior. On the other hand, there are heterosexuals who experiment with homosexuality. But that in itself doesn't make them homosexual.

I often wonder what the solution is for gays. If they stay true to their feelings and have romantic relations with someone from their same gender, then they are "leading a disgusting lifestyle." However, if they deny their true feelings and end up having romantic relations and marrying someone of their opposite gender, then eventually, their homosexual feelings are going to compromise the relationship where the marriage will eventually come to an end. At that point, they would be accused of "breaking up the family unit." So what's the solution for them? Just stay in the closet for their entire lives and have no romantic relations?

I'm not trying to sound like Tonicali here and would see no point in trying to ask these questions or have these debates with Chaim since he views homosexuality as being equivalent to having sex with cows. I mean, really! It's one thing to be against it for religious purposes. But equating it with cows? There's no way you can have any type of rational debate when someone thinks like this!

Daniel, I do not disagree with you on this.  I, too, have known a few homosexuals and all wonderful people otherwise.  If one decides to do act on a certain sexual behavior in the privacy of their home, it is not up to me to rebuke such behavior.  When one even acts in that way confides in me, I do have a right to rebuke it if i disagree with it, but they are entitled to my compassion as well.

But you have those, whether by choice or no choice go announcing what they like to do in the privacy of their home and are proud of it.  That, to me, is messed up! An openly proud homosexual is doing an evil thing.

[Daniel]

I don't think we should be using words like f*****. I am a heterosexual, but what gay people do in private is none of my business, or anyone else's.

if gays were private about what they do, then I would agree. But way too many come out and are "proud" to be gay..making it not private anymore..so let the rebuking of homosexuality continue.

The gays that I know aren't any more "proud" to be gay anymore than the rest of us are proud to be hetero.

[Dr. Dan]

I've jeard  of people who claim to be attracted to cows, horses, and even dogs, so what's the difference?

Bestiality is a fetish. Homosexuality is NOT a fetish! But as I stated before, anyone who equates homosexuality with cows cannot be rationally reasoned with on this issue.

Homosexual might as well be a fetish...We do not know for a fact if homosexuality is nature or nuture.  And even if someone were born with it, the wrong thing to do is say, "oh well, so be it." the Right thing to do is talk it out and figure out a way to fix it...

[Daniel]

With my own personal experiences, I have known a few people who were gay. They all said the same thing, that they never elected to be this way. This is just the feelings that they experience. This is something that they needed to struggle with for a very long before realizing that they were in fact gay. This is still something they need to struggle with. It's not like they just woke up one day and decided to be rebellious and said, "Hey, ya know what? I think I'll be gay!" Anyone who does something like that or decides to experiment with homosexuality isn't truly gay.

I think it's important to differentiate between homosexual feelings and behavior. There are a good number of people who by no choice of their own, have homosexual feelings. But because of the religious, cultural, and societal pressures, they choose not to follow through with homosexual behavior. On the other hand, there are heterosexuals who experiment with homosexuality. But that in itself doesn't make them homosexual.

I often wonder what the solution is for gays. If they stay true to their feelings and have romantic relations with someone from their same gender, then they are "leading a disgusting lifestyle." However, if they deny their true feelings and end up having romantic relations and marrying someone of their opposite gender, then eventually, their homosexual feelings are going to compromise the relationship where the marriage will eventually come to an end. At that point, they would be accused of "breaking up the family unit." So what's the solution for them? Just stay in the closet for their entire lives and have no romantic relations?

I'm not trying to sound like Tonicali here and would see no point in trying to ask these questions or have these debates with Chaim since he views homosexuality as being equivalent to having sex with cows. I mean, really! It's one thing to be against it for religious purposes. But equating it with cows? There's no way you can have any type of rational debate when someone thinks like this!

Daniel, I do not disagree with you on this.  I, too, have known a few homosexuals and all wonderful people otherwise.  If one decides to do act on a certain sexual behavior in the privacy of their home, it is not up to me to rebuke such behavior.  When one even acts in that way confides in me, I do have a right to rebuke it if i disagree with it, but they are entitled to my compassion as well.

But you have those, whether by choice or no choice go announcing what they like to do in the privacy of their home and are proud of it.  That, to me, is messed up! An openly proud homosexual is doing an evil thing.

So then I suppose it's better for them to be closed and ashamed about this.