Author Topic: Liberal Reform Rabbis care more about Arabs than Jewish continuity  (Read 2192 times)

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Offline muman613

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I wish Israel would get rid of all these anti-Jewish 'rabbis' from the land. I realize that the Real Rabbis are the ones being picked on by the Israeli government but the day will come when things are turned on their heads {just like during the Purim story}...


A letter recently written by the wives of 27 Orthodox Rabbis in Israel urges Jewish women to marry only Jewish men. Of course the media and the Israeli government is reading 'non-Jew' to mean Arab, and thus this issue becomes what they term racism. The Jewish belief has always been that a Jew must marry a Jew, this is the Halacha which was given to Moses at Sinai and the Jewish people have kept this for 1000s of years {over 3000 years}...

But so-called liberal reform rabbis are rabid to make pronouncements such as:

Yehiel Grenimann from the organisation Rabbis for Human Rights:

"Personally if someone wants to marry out of the faith that's their choice," he said.

"I deeply believe that God gave us freedom and any repression of freedom is to me anti-God; anti the most essential element of what I understand faith to b




Maybe this Rabbi has never celebrated Pesach/Passover.... During that holiday we concentrate on exactly what FREEDOM means, and it DOES NOT mean doing whatever you want whenever you want it.... We were taken out of slavery in order to serve Hashem through observance of the commandments. If this came down to doing what you want when you want to, the Jews would still be slaves in Egypt...

I cannot believe that there are people with the label 'rabbi' who are permitted to say such heretical things to the world media.

A Jew must marry a Jew, if a Jewish man marries a non-Jew he his cut off from his people, and his children are not Jewish. There is no wiggle-room nor any exemptions. A Rabbi should know better. Of course this Rabbi may be an erev rav who is working on destroying the Jewish nation from within... If so I wish nothing but pain and suffering on this wretched 'rabbi'.



http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/12/30/3103750.htm?section=justin


'Don't date Arabs' letter sparks Israeli controversy
By Middle East correspondent Anne Barker
Posted 43 minutes ago

A letter published by a group of rabbis in Israel has sparked calls for their dismissal.

The letter, signed by the wives and daughters of prominent rabbis, instructs Jewish women not to date or even work with Arab men.

Human rights groups and more liberal rabbis say the letter whips up hatred and are calling for those behind it to be sacked.

The letter was published in some of Israel's mainstream papers and is signed by the wives and daughters of 27 of Israel's most senior and prominent rabbis, among them Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, who is the spiritual leader of the ultra orthodox Shas party - a key partner in Israel's coalition government.

It urges Jewish women not to date or even work with non-Jews - read Arabs - or even serve alongside them in the Israeli Army.

"They ask to be close to you and try to find favour with you," the letter reads, "and give you all the attention in the world. But their behaviour is only temporary. The moment you are in their hands, in their village, under their control, everything changes."

Rabbi Levi Chazen represents the organisation which drafted the letter - Lahava - which works to prevent Jewish assimilation.

"Throughout the ages the Jewish people always kept the fine line of marrying amongst themselves and not intermarrying amongst other peoples, otherwise we wouldn't be here today," he said.

"And so it's very unfortunate that we do come back to the land of Israel after 2,000 years of exile and we find ourselves with a problem of assimilation with Jewish women and Arab men."

On its own, critics might dismiss the letter as the rant of a group that does not represent the Israeli majority, most of whom are secular Jews.

But human rights groups say it is part of a growing tide of anti-Arab sentiment in Israeli society.

Earlier this month another letter by municipal rabbis urged Israeli Jews not to rent properties to non-Jewish residents.

And another group of rabbis have lobbied an Israeli hospital to abandon plans for a prayer room for its Muslim patients.

In a country where 20 per cent of Israelis are Arabs, the letter has shocked many, including other liberal rabbis such as Yehiel Grenimann from the organisation Rabbis for Human Rights.

"Personally if someone wants to marry out of the faith that's their choice," he said.

"I deeply believe that God gave us freedom and any repression of freedom is to me anti-God; anti the most essential element of what I understand faith to be."

Israeli Labour Party leader Ehud Barak has warned the rabbis' letter could lead to a wave of racism that threatens to take over Israeli society.

But a survey published on the same day suggests Israelis are evenly divided - 44 per cent of Israeli Jews it says supported the rabbis' calls while 48 per cent were opposed.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Liberal Reform Rabbis care more about Arabs than Jewish continuity
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2010, 07:49:11 PM »
Idiot israeli left wing media.  Anyone who agrees with then will disappear very quickly.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Liberal Reform Rabbis care more about Arabs than Jewish continuity
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2010, 08:12:28 PM »
I don't see how they are any worse than Lieberman, who you defend and call "misguided".

Offline muman613

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Re: Liberal Reform Rabbis care more about Arabs than Jewish continuity
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2010, 08:13:20 PM »
I don't see how they are any worse than Lieberman, who you defend and call "misguided".

Lieberman IS NOT A RABBI DBF!!!

A Rabbi is responsible for guiding his congregation. If a Rabbi misleads his congregation he is liable for all of their sins... This is not the case for Mr. Lieberman..

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Liberal Reform Rabbis care more about Arabs than Jewish continuity
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2010, 08:17:58 PM »
See Halacha #1 from Rambams Mishne Torah Sefer Madda Chapter #4:



http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/911898/jewish/Chapter-Four.htm

Halacha 1

There are 24 deeds which hold back Teshuvah: Four are the commission of severe sins. God will not grant the person who commits such deeds to repent because of the gravity of his transgressions.

They are:

a) One who causes the masses to sin, included in this category is one who holds back the many from performing a positive command;

b) One who leads his colleague astray from the path of good to that of bad; for example, one who proselytizes or serves as a missionary [for idol worship];

c) One who sees his son becoming associated with evil influences and refrains from rebuking him. Since his son is under his authority, were he to rebuke him, he would have separated himself [from these influences]. Hence, [by refraining from admonishing him, it is considered] as if he caused him to sin.

Included in this sin are also all those who have the potential to rebuke others, whether an individual or a group, and refrain from doing so, leaving them to their shortcomings.

d) One who says: "I will sin and then, repent." Included in this category is one who says: "I will sin and Yom Kippur will atone [for me]."
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Liberal Reform Rabbis care more about Arabs than Jewish continuity
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2010, 08:20:52 PM »
Halacha 4

Also among the [24] are five [transgressions] for which it is unlikely that the person who commits them will repent. Most people regard these matters lightly. Hence, [by committing such a transgression,] a person will sin without realizing that he has. They are:

a) One who eats from a meal which is not sufficient for its owners. This is a "shade of theft." However, the person who [partook from this meal] will not realize that he has sinned, for he will rationalize: "I only ate with his permission."

b) One who makes use of a pledge taken from a poor person. The pledge taken from a poor person would be his axe or plow. He rationalizes: "Their value will not depreciate and, hence, I haven't stolen anything from him."

c) One who looks at women forbidden to him. He considers the matter of little consequence, rationalizing: "Did I engage in relations with her? Was I intimate with her?" He fails to realize how looking [at such sights] is a great sin, for it motivates a person to actually take part in illicit sexual relations as implied by [Numbers 15:39] "Do not follow after your heart and your eyes."

d) One who takes pride in his colleague's shame. He tells himself that he has not sinned, for his colleague was not present. Thus, no shame came [directly] to his colleague, nor did he humiliate him. He merely contrasted his good deeds and wisdom against the deeds or wisdom of his colleague in order that, out of that comparison, he would appear honorable, and his colleague, shameful.

e) One who suspects worthy people. He will also say to himself "I haven't sinned," for he will rationalize: "What have I done to him? All I did was raise a doubt whether he committed the wrong or not." He does not realize that this is a sin, for he has considered a worthy person as a transgressor.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Liberal Reform Rabbis care more about Arabs than Jewish continuity
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2010, 08:22:27 PM »
If Yimach-Schmo Lieberman (ys) isn't a rabbi, it should be even more acceptable for me to curse him, but you believe that it's a sin for me to do so even after Chaim gave you the explanation for why he does indeed deserve it. So you can't be arguing out of both sides of your mouth. PS: Deform "rabbis" are not rabbis either.

Offline muman613

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Re: Liberal Reform Rabbis care more about Arabs than Jewish continuity
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2010, 08:33:36 PM »
If Yimach-Schmo Lieberman (ys) isn't a rabbi, it should be even more acceptable for me to curse him, but you believe that it's a sin for me to do so even after Chaim gave you the explanation for why he does indeed deserve it. So you can't be arguing out of both sides of your mouth. PS: Deform "rabbis" are not rabbis either.

I think you fail to understand what I am saying...

Once again:

It is a greater sin when a person in a position of religious authority uses that authority to lead others astray. Such a heretic deserves being cursed, and as I pointed out, he is unable to REPENT.

Lieberman, on the other hand, is not in a position of religious authority. He cannot distort Torah in the name of Judaism and lead Jews astray. As such any sin he does is capable of being annulled through a process called Teshuva..


Do you understand now?


And regarding your comment about Reform rabbis not being rabbis. That is beside the point. They are leaders of their congregations and are directly responsible for the sins of their congregants...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Liberal Reform Rabbis care more about Arabs than Jewish continuity
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2010, 08:46:19 PM »
More dodges from the cut-paste guru. Explain to me why I am not allowed to curse Yimach Schmo Lieberman.

Offline muman613

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Re: Liberal Reform Rabbis care more about Arabs than Jewish continuity
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2010, 08:47:56 PM »
More dodges from the cut-paste guru. Explain to me why I am not allowed to curse Yimach Schmo Lieberman.

DBF

Go curse whoever you want. You are the MASTER of curses {as Soton is}.... Nobody will stop you from cursing anyone.

I just said I would not join you in cursing him... Is that too hard for you to comprehend? Or do you require everyone to curse the people you curse?

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Liberal Reform Rabbis care more about Arabs than Jewish continuity
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2010, 08:49:17 PM »
Explain why it is a sin to curse him. But since you can't even admit to saying things that I have screenshotted and posted, I'm asking for a lost cause.

Offline muman613

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Re: Liberal Reform Rabbis care more about Arabs than Jewish continuity
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2010, 08:55:46 PM »
Explain why it is a sin to curse him. But since you can't even admit to saying things that I have screenshotted and posted, I'm asking for a lost cause.

When did I say it was a sin to curse him?

http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,51280.msg484263.html#msg484263

I said that it is not imperative to curse him...

What happened to your promise to forever ignore my posts?

When you spread deceit I will speak up... The fact that Lieberman is against the Wikileaks speaks nothing about him being a Kapo and does not rise to the level of cursing him.

It is easy for a non-Jew to curse Jews... While Lieberman is not perfect he is not doing anything wrong by opposing the Wikileaks. It was a violation of law, hurt the ability of this country to negotiate on the world stage, and rises to the level of criminal action against America. I think Assflange should be executed.



I am not defending Lieberman here. He is to be rebuked for his stand on the Pollard matter, amongst other issues which he has done wrong. But as a Jew I find it difficult to curse him because of the laws of Lashon Hara and because I believe that he may do repentence eventually.
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What else don't you understand?

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Liberal Reform Rabbis care more about Arabs than Jewish continuity
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2010, 09:01:34 PM »
You don't think accusing me of "spreading deceit" against Lieberman, and saying that he has not risen to the level of being cursed is saying it is a sin to curse him?

I'd still like to see the "deceit" against Lieberman (yimach schmo) that I committed. I asked for that in the thread and you never delivered.

Offline Yaacov Ben Yehuda

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Re: Liberal Reform Rabbis care more about Arabs than Jewish continuity
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2010, 09:10:15 PM »
I wouldnt curse so loosely either.. especially Leiberman because he never fully did anything that horrible to warrant serious cursing... now ehud barak... thats another story!


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Re: Liberal Reform Rabbis care more about Arabs than Jewish continuity
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2010, 09:38:28 PM »
These deformed so-called "rabbis" are idiots.  There's nothing Jewish about them.  No doubt, they're nothing but aging, hippie red diaper doper babies.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Liberal Reform Rabbis care more about Arabs than Jewish continuity
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2010, 08:00:27 PM »
I wouldnt curse so loosely either.. especially Leiberman because he never fully did anything that horrible to warrant serious cursing... now ehud barak... thats another story!


He lobbied hard for Jonathan Pollard to get the death penalty.

Offline muman613

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Re: Liberal Reform Rabbis care more about Arabs than Jewish continuity
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2010, 08:35:38 PM »
I wouldnt curse so loosely either.. especially Leiberman because he never fully did anything that horrible to warrant serious cursing... now ehud barak... thats another story!


He lobbied hard for Jonathan Pollard to get the death penalty.

Are you sure about that? I just did some research and I have not been able to find any reference to Lieberman wanting the death penalty for Pollard... The worst he did was work against clemency for Pollard...

http://www.jonathanpollard.org/lieberman.htm

Quote
    Lieberman Hints on Pollard
    Senator Joseph Lieberman suggested that, if elected president, he would not support a pardon of convicted spy Jonathan Pollard. Speaking Wednesday to Jewish senior citizens in Pembroke Pines, Fla., Lieberman said that Pollard, the former Navy intelligence officer who spied for Israel, "did get an unfair sentence when compared to others, but that's sometimes how the system works." Lieberman also said he avoids interfering in criminal cases and noted that he has done nothing in the Senate on Pollard's behalf. Lieberman, who discussed Social Security and Medicare with the seniors, will travel to Dearborn, Mich., on Friday to speak to the Arab American Institute. He said he hopes his outspoken views on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will be received in the Arab community for what it is, an honest statement of personal beliefs.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Liberal Reform Rabbis care more about Arabs than Jewish continuity
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2010, 08:37:13 PM »
Is that supposed to be a good thing?

Offline muman613

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Re: Liberal Reform Rabbis care more about Arabs than Jewish continuity
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2010, 08:39:01 PM »
Is that supposed to be a good thing?

No... But there is a big difference between actively lobbying for the death penalty to be applied and not actively seeking his pardon... I have said I oppose Liebermans stance on the issue because I believe a Jew must act to redeem a Jewish captive {this is one of the 613 mitzvot}... So it is not a good thing what Lieberman does, but it doesn't rise to the level which you implied in your response.

Indeed Mr. Lieberman is not acting as a Jew in this instance..

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Liberal Reform Rabbis care more about Arabs than Jewish continuity
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2010, 08:43:46 PM »
Is that supposed to be a good thing?

No... But there is a big difference between actively lobbying for the death penalty to be applied and not actively seeking his pardon... I have said I oppose Liebermans stance on the issue because I believe a Jew must act to redeem a Jewish captive {this is one of the 613 mitzvot}... So it is not a good thing what Lieberman does, but it doesn't rise to the level which you implied in your response.

Indeed Mr. Lieberman is not acting as a Jew in this instance..
Gee, ya think?