Author Topic: Nazism, a leftist concept or a right wing concept?  (Read 1749 times)

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Offline christians4jews

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Nazism, a leftist concept or a right wing concept?
« on: February 06, 2011, 03:06:53 PM »
What do you think, do feel Hitler deserves to be called by the left wing media as extreme right, or was this an urban myth and he was actually a Socialist?

Discuss.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Nazism, a leftist concept or a right wing concept?
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2011, 03:10:26 PM »
There were elements of both used. Nationalism is a right wing philosophy, but socialism if a left wing philosophy. If someone tries to push 'national socialism' into one philosophy, then of course it's going to be confusing and turn out very, very badly. I think it was just something for evil people of the whole spectrum to attach themselves to.

Offline Yaakov Mendel

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Re: Nazism, a leftist concept or a right wing concept?
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2011, 04:04:30 PM »

I think it is neither leftist nor right wing. It is a unique, intrinsically German, extreme form of dementia. Indeed, the distinctive features of the Nazi ideology are :

1) The belief in the supremacy of an Aryan master race
2) The claim that Germans represent the most pure Aryan nation
3) The belief that Jews are the greatest threat to the Aryan race and the German nation and that they must be exterminated

There is nothing inherently leftist or right wing in this. I would rather call this ideology "racial German supremacism". Nazis hated liberalism, democracy, capitalism and communism all together.

Offline briann

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Re: Nazism, a leftist concept or a right wing concept?
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2011, 04:31:46 PM »
The best way to answer this is its mostly left-wing but since the leftists control academia and the media, they have push it as a right-wing movement

But this is nonsense.

1) The left is anti-JudeoChristian  (Polls show twice as many Dems have negative views of Jews than Repubs)
Nazis hated and tried to kill off Jews, and tried to replace Christianity with Paganism

2)  The left supports statism and larger more intrusive government
Nazis took this to the extreme

3)  Left supports Gun-control, higher taxes, redistribution of wealth
Nazis implemented all of these

4)  The Left supports killing off unwanted babies
Nazis took this to the extreme

5)  The left supports race based laws (Though not quite as malevolent)
Nazis took this to the extreme with the Nuremburg Laws

Yes, the Nazi's promoted/advertised themselves as a populist Nationalist movement that would bring freedom to the people (Which is what the left points to as it being a right-movement) BUT, these were lies used to get them elected.

Offline Yaakov Mendel

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Re: Nazism, a leftist concept or a right wing concept?
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2011, 05:12:37 PM »
The best way to answer this is its mostly left-wing but since the leftists control academia and the media, they have push it as a right-wing movement

But this is nonsense.

1) The left is anti-JudeoChristian  (Polls show twice as many Dems have negative views of Jews than Repubs)
Nazis hated and tried to kill off Jews, and tried to replace Christianity with Paganism

2)  The left supports statism and larger more intrusive government
Nazis took this to the extreme

3)  Left supports Gun-control, higher taxes, redistribution of wealth
Nazis implemented all of these

4)  The Left supports killing off unwanted babies
Nazis took this to the extreme

5)  The left supports race based laws (Though not quite as malevolent)
Nazis took this to the extreme with the Nuremburg Laws

Yes, the Nazi's promoted/advertised themselves as a populist Nationalist movement that would bring freedom to the people (Which is what the left points to as it being a right-movement) BUT, these were lies used to get them elected.

There are at least two main reasons why Nazism cannot be consistently qualified as a leftist ideology. First, the racial supremacist assumption at the core of Nazism is not a left-wing concept. Second, the ideal of equality at the center of left-wing ideology is not compatible with Nazism.
Also, it’s true that the left supports more government but the moderate left does not support a totalitarian government as the one the Nazis set up (only communists do). The moderate left supports government intervention in the economy for more "social justice" (basically wealth redistribution), not total government control over society.
Also, the left supports the right to abortion but not the eugenism of the Nazis.

Offline Zelhar

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Re: Nazism, a leftist concept or a right wing concept?
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2011, 06:02:09 PM »
I place Nazism, Communism, Fascism and Islam under one category of Totalitarianism. All make the individual unimportant, demand sacrifice form their subject, extremely aggressive and expansionist, ruthless, mind controlling the population and use ceaseless propaganda, and I am sure I can continue with more similarities. 

Technically they all prefer different economic systems, but that's a technically cause anyway in their the economy is completely subjugated to their military needs.


Offline briann

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Re: Nazism, a leftist concept or a right wing concept?
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2011, 11:04:06 PM »
Quote
There are at least two main reasons why Nazism cannot be consistently qualified as a leftist ideology. First, the racial supremacist assumption at the core of Nazism is not a left-wing concept. Second, the ideal of equality at the center of left-wing ideology is not compatible with Nazism.
Also, it’s true that the left supports more government but the moderate left does not support a totalitarian government as the one the Nazis set up (only communists do). The moderate left supports government intervention in the economy for more "social justice" (basically wealth redistribution), not total government control over society.
Also, the left supports the right to abortion but not the eugenism of the Nazis.


I dissagree.  Naziism was obsessed with Egalitarianism and 'social justice' (for those who were suitable Germans), far more than today's moderate leftists of course, but as much as the far left is; I realize it was a pseudo-egalitarianism, where many unwanted were executed, and there were still an extreme elite and untouchable class, but it was a push nonetheless, and this is completely ignored by today's leftist academia.

For those who were part of their 'Reich', Naziism utopia wanted Germany to be a 'classless' society.  They constantly preached about this.   People regardless their wealth and upbringing were enlisted in labor groups, so that all 'Germans' would do manual labor.  Much of this came from the fact that the originators of Naziism always wanted it to be 'workers' party where everyone would be required to do what the poorest did.   They specifically beleived this was part of 'social justice'   Naiziism thrived on class envy because it fueled their hatred of Jews, which were were so over-represented in professional and high-paying jobs and never did the low paying manual labor in their minds.

Naziism had always originally pushed itself as a socialist party. which is why it always kept the word Socialist in its name, and also kept the word 'worker' in its name.  I realized that they were also obsessed with hating Communism, but in reality, they were idiots, and were very similar.

Im not saying moderate leftists are Naziis.  Thats rediculous and like saying moderate Rightist are anarchists or Militia members.  What Im saying is that Naziism IS a leftist movement.  Its a FAR leftist movement, but its still a leftist movement nonetheless; and there is FAR more in common with Naziism with today's leftists than today's rightists.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 11:39:16 PM by briann »

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Nazism, a leftist concept or a right wing concept?
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2011, 11:10:53 PM »
I don't think that "nationalism" is strictly right-wing. Maybe it is in the modern sense but the Bolsheviks were very definitely nationalists in the extreme.

Offline briann

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Re: Nazism, a leftist concept or a right wing concept?
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2011, 11:40:05 PM »
Quote
Racial supremacist assumption at the core of Nazism is not a left-wing concept. Second, the ideal of equality at the center of left-wing ideology is not compatible with Nazism.
Also, the left supports the right to abortion but not the eugenism of the Nazis.

You are right, No other movement was so obsessed with 'race', not modern-liberalism, not anything else, they certainly thought it was the first and foremost key.

However, there are NO rightist politicians I know that want laws and policy that use 'race', they are all leftists.  Its absurd to think about laws that treat people better or worse based upon racial aspects, but it exists, and those who push is ARE racist.   

Modern leftism allows for it based upon a similar justification to Naziism.   

Blacks and Browns should have their race taken into consideration, because white's and yellows have an advantage through some sort of nonsense institutionalized conspiracy.  If you ask a white leftist, they will often admit that they know in their heart its wrong, BUT they do it because the Leftist racist Blacks and Browns push the propganda and Leftists (and some rightists) are paralyzed by political correctness.

The Nazis said Jews were over-represented in wealthy and professional jobs, because of rediculous nonsense about Jewish cabals keeping the 'Aryan's' down.   They used the same kind of crap about Jews keeping Aryans down, that modern Racist blacks and browns use.  The wording is frighteningly similar, and it brings up social justice with both movements.

Again, this is NOT the primary purpose of leftism, the way it is in Naziism, not even close,.. Im just saying it DOES exist in the left.

Offline Ari Ben-Canaan

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Re: Nazism, a leftist concept or a right wing concept?
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2011, 12:41:22 AM »
"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." - Adolf Hitler

"The whole of national socialism is based on Marx." - Adolf Hitler

"basically National Socialism and Marxism are the same." - Adolf Hitler

"Policy manifesto written by Adolph Hitler, 1925:

    9. All citizens of the State shall be equal as regards rights and duties.

    10. The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. The activities of the individual may not clash with the interests of the whole, but must proceed within the frame of the community and be for the general good.

    Therefore we demand:

    11. That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.

    12. Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in life and property, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as a crime against the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits whether in assets or material.

    13. We demand the nationalization of businesses which have been organized into cartels.

    14. We demand that all the profits from wholesale trade shall be shared out.

    15. We demand extensive development of provision for old age.

    16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a healthy middle-class, the immediate communalization of department stores which will be rented cheaply to small businessmen, and that preference shall be given to small businessmen for provision of supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.

    17. We demand a land reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to confiscate from the owners without compensation any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land."

"Environmentalism

Andrew Bolt, emphases mine:

    Hitler also banned medical experiments on animals, but not, as we know to our grief, on Jewish children. And he created many national parks, particularly for Germany's "sacred" forests.

    This isn't a coincidence. The Nazis drew heavily on a romantic, anti-science, nature worshipping, communal and anti-capitalist movement that tied German identity to German forests. In fact, Professor Raymond Dominick notes in his book, The Environmental Movement in Germany, two-thirds of the members of Germany's main nature clubs had joined the Nazi Party by 1939, compared with just 10 per cent of all men.

    The Nazis also absorbed the German Youth Movement, the Wandervogel, which talked of our mystical relationship with the earth. Peter Staudenmaier, co-author of Ecofascism: Lessons from the German Experience, says it was for the Wandervogel that the philosopher Ludwig Klages wrote his influential essay Man and Earth in 1913.

    In it, Klages warned of the growing extinction of species, the destruction of forests, the genocide of aboriginal peoples, the disruption of the ecosystem and the killing of whales. People were losing their relationship with nature, he warned."

"Gun Control

John Ray:

    But surely Hitler was at least like US conservatives in being a "gun nut"? Far from it. Weimar (pre-Hitler) Germany did have restrictions on private ownership of firearms but the Nazis introduced even further restrictions when they came to power. The Nazi Weapons Law (or Waffengesetz), which restricted the possession of militarily useful weapons and forbade trade in weapons without a government-issued license, was passed by the Reichstag ("State Assembly" -- i.e. the German Federal Parliament) on March 18, 1938."

"Nationalism

Hitler's party was the National Socialist Party -- its aim was to be (unsuprisingly) both national and socialist.

Some claim is that since Hitler was a nationalist (patriot), he couldn't possibly be a socialist. This is amusing, given the recent effort in the US of many of our left-leaning citizens to earnestly assert the opposite: That leftism is not unpatriotic.

Ray:

    With the Nazis you could be both a socialist and a full-blooded nationalist. Hitler was thus simply the most effective figure in showing that socialism and nationalism, far from being intrinsically opposed, could be very successfully integrated into an electorally appealing whole.

And:

    Although many modern-day US Democrats often seem to be anti-American, the situation is rather different in Australia and Britain. Both the major Leftist parties there (the Australian Labor Party and the British Labour Party) are perfectly patriotic parties which express pride in their national traditions and achievements. Nobody seems to have convinced them that you cannot be both Leftist and nationalist."

"Alliances

Ray, on support from German labor unions:

    The fact that Hitler appealed to the German voter as basically a rather extreme social democrat is also shown by the fact that the German Social Democrats (orthodox democratic Leftists who controlled the unions as well as a large Reichstag deputation) at all times refused appeals from the German Communist party for co-operation against the Nazis.

On opposition from conservatives:

    Both in Germany and Britain he despised them and they despised him. Far from being an ally of Hitler or in any way sympathetic to him, Hitler's most unrelenting foe was the arch-Conservative British politician, Winston Churchill and it was a British Conservative Prime Minister (Neville Chamberlain) who eventually declared war on Hitler's Germany. Hitler found a willing ally in the Communist Stalin as long as he wanted it but at no point could he wring even neutrality out of Churchill."

---

Sure Nazis were opposed to Stalinists.  Stalinists were opposed to Trotskyites.  And Russia and China had their split as well.

Stalin was a Nationalist, and Mao was a Nationalist.  Just exactly which famous "Communists" were Internationalists!




http://marxwords.blogspot.com/

Here is a website to see Marx own words.  They are very similar to those of Hitler. [YS"V to both of them]
"You must keep the arab under your boot or he will be at your throat" -Unknown

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Offline Ari Ben-Canaan

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Re: Nazism, a leftist concept or a right wing concept?
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2011, 12:43:57 AM »
You are right, No other movement was so obsessed with 'race', not modern-liberalism, not anything else, they certainly thought it was the first and foremost key.

However, there are NO rightist politicians I know that want laws and policy that use 'race', they are all leftists.  Its absurd to think about laws that treat people better or worse based upon racial aspects, but it exists, and those who push is ARE racist.   

Modern leftism allows for it based upon a similar justification to Naziism.   

Blacks and Browns should have their race taken into consideration, because white's and yellows have an advantage through some sort of nonsense institutionalized conspiracy.  If you ask a white leftist, they will often admit that they know in their heart its wrong, BUT they do it because the Leftist racist Blacks and Browns push the propganda and Leftists (and some rightists) are paralyzed by political correctness.

The Nazis said Jews were over-represented in wealthy and professional jobs, because of rediculous nonsense about Jewish cabals keeping the 'Aryan's' down.   They used the same kind of crap about Jews keeping Aryans down, that modern Racist blacks and browns use.  The wording is frighteningly similar, and it brings up social justice with both movements.

Again, this is NOT the primary purpose of leftism, the way it is in Naziism, not even close,.. Im just saying it DOES exist in the left.


The Ku Klux Klan was founded as the military wing of the Democratic party.
"You must keep the arab under your boot or he will be at your throat" -Unknown

"When we tell the Arab, ‘Come, I want to help you and see to your needs,’ he doesn’t look at us like gentlemen. He sees weakness and then the wolf shows what he can do.” - Maimonides

 “I am all peace, but when I speak, they are for war.” -Psalms 120:7

"The difference between a Jewish liberal and a Jewish conservative is that when a Jewish liberal walks out of the Holocaust Museum, he feels, "This shows why we need to have more tolerance and multiculturalism." The Jewish conservative feels, "We should have killed a lot more Nazis, and sooner."" - Philip Klein

Offline mord

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Re: Nazism, a leftist concept or a right wing concept?
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2011, 07:52:22 AM »
In strict political terms it's Socialism it believes in welfare in communism the companies were owned by the 'people' [in other words the govt] in nazism the companies were 'privately owned but worked for the  Govt.[again we have govt control] Rohm and many SA members were killed or imprisoned by nazis because they were very close  to communism they hated the industrialists.They left socialism and were bordering on communism
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
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Offline Debbie Shafer

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Re: Nazism, a leftist concept or a right wing concept?
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2011, 08:51:32 AM »
I believe that Communism and Nazism is a Left Wing Concept, and Ideology.   The hypocricy of the leftists claim to champion the principles of freedom, democracy, liberalism, and feminism yet support both Communist and Islamist Dictatorships.  (They are United in Hate.)  They all lie which is a key tactic for bending a population to your will---and creating a crisis.  A crisis throws us off our guard and upsets us, and inclines us to make decisions and accept solutions we normally would reject.

Egypt is being Community Organized into chaos to push Mubarak out, and bring in a Radical Regime.    No mystery here, once you know the concept of Islam, (Deception) and the Communists to exploit a crisis you can pretty much predict whats is coming down the Pike.