Author Topic: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women  (Read 29344 times)

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Offline briann

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Re: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women
« Reply #175 on: August 17, 2012, 10:44:54 PM »
AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!  :fright:

See it works... And it makes me appreciate my wife all the more.

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women
« Reply #176 on: August 18, 2012, 12:39:15 PM »
I'm done with this topic. We'll all agree to disagree. I'm glad that Dr. Dan, at the very least, at least sees where I am coming from.

I mentioned this story to my wife and here was her comment: "this is news?  They ridicule orthodox Jewish men wanting to wear blurry glasses?!  Why not print stories of outrage of homosexual acceptability on daytime tv?  There should be outrage about those things in the newspaper.  Not blurry glasses."

I really liked that response.  That's a true jtf response.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

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Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women
« Reply #177 on: August 18, 2012, 01:33:57 PM »
I want to make another point.  Everything in moderation.  That means I can understand a rabbi suggesting these glasses when a haredi is doing business in tel aviv where there are a lot of scantily clad women.  But would have a problem when they suggest its use in mea sharim.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline ✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ

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Re: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women
« Reply #178 on: August 18, 2012, 01:49:18 PM »
If any body feels i shudnt have posted this news, I am sorry for that.

ps: This thread went towards a way i did not intend to.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women
« Reply #179 on: August 18, 2012, 01:57:24 PM »
If any body feels i shudnt have posted this news, I am sorry for that.

ps: This thread went towards a way i did not intend to.

I can't speak for anyone else but I thought it was an interesting thread.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women
« Reply #180 on: August 18, 2012, 03:41:45 PM »
It might be good to post bad news. Thinking is part of it. This story which I'd bet involved the sale of at most a few thousand funny glasses to probably not even looney people, but very gullible Hasidim who surely got hit up with some ads for it, and if those were any good, they would play to their want to be better Jews with less effort, because of a great new becoming-a-better-person technology. I wouldn't be surprised if it was planned too publish the story in the first place (but know nothing whatsoever about the company), though the point is that this is probably not a phenomenon that's going to go on very many places, and no sane rabbi would encourage this, though you can still go through a silly phase now and again. It's kind of like closing your eyes to G-d for a second so as not to take anything about him for granted. There is a distinct possibility that people might learn to get used to not looking at scantily clothed women with them, but they'll probably stop after one of the zillion things that could go wrong when operating with less visual capacity then they're used to happens, and hopefully they learn from it. Fear not brothers, this will pass, nor will it be recorded as Jewish history. You're right though it's pretty high up on a scale from one to useless. That's why I talked about other things. I'm not gonna tell my grand-kids that I wasted my time on taking something like this real seriously.
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Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women
« Reply #181 on: August 19, 2012, 04:21:49 AM »
Any thread that reaches these many pages and includes a great debate between Kwrbt, muman, and mo, is a really good thread.  We need more like these.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Sveta

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Re: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women
« Reply #182 on: August 19, 2012, 05:02:58 AM »
They can wear these glasses but in the end I am more concerned that they may damage their eyesight.
Wearing the wrong glasses is bad but wearing glasses that severely distort ones surroundings can have worse consequences on the eyes as they try to adjust to this. Even if one wears them all the time, how healthy can it be to go from normal to distortion every day.

For the sake of health concerns, I would not recommend it. What good is this if you end up blinding yourself.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women
« Reply #183 on: August 19, 2012, 11:34:35 AM »
No this thread is not good. It's bad, but here for a good reason, though should have been dealt with quicker. I figured it out your welcome, I second thread closed. Or I just keep spamming it with drug-induced ideas.
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Offline muman613

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Re: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women
« Reply #184 on: August 19, 2012, 02:09:45 PM »
No this thread is not good. It's bad, but here for a good reason, though should have been dealt with quicker. I figured it out your welcome, I second thread closed. Or I just keep spamming it with drug-induced ideas.
:::D

1175 views!!!
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline ✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ

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Re: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women
« Reply #185 on: August 19, 2012, 02:38:01 PM »
just wondering if there is a related thread on the Hebrew forum. Would be interesting to know how the discussion there went about. anybody?

I love the passion and the curiousness the Cheridis show in their faith. always trying. If at all the next generation of israeli youth had even 1% of that passion.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women
« Reply #186 on: August 19, 2012, 02:43:07 PM »
I love the passion and the curiousness the Cheridis show in their faith. always trying. If at all the next generation of israeli youth had even 1% of that passion.

 We do not want or need to promote such fanaticism.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women
« Reply #187 on: August 19, 2012, 02:44:32 PM »
just wondering if there is a related thread on the Hebrew forum. Would be interesting to know how the discussion there went about. anybody?

I love the passion and the curiousness the Cheridis show in their faith. always trying. If at all the next generation of israeli youth had even 1% of that passion.

Passion for the right intentions.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline muman613

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Re: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women
« Reply #188 on: August 19, 2012, 04:03:01 PM »
The intentions are correct. But as I stated originally, the method is questionable. Several of the comments in the threat seem to belittle the intentions, which is to avoid thoughts which are immodest or will lead to sin. As I said initially, I do believe firmly that avoiding these thoughts are beneficial to the Jewish mind and soul. I do know that these thoughts do lead to actions, even in slight ways, which are immodest. Everyone says, "But just seeing a nice looking woman immodestly dressed will not make me go out and rape women".... Fine, but that is not the point. That, to me, is a straw man argument...

The point of not looking is not to prevent you from going out and raping all these 'good looking women'. It is also not the point of this to 'look down' on women all together and try to impose on them. The issue is a matter of a mans ability to control these desires.

Some may argue that we are not able to tame these desires and that we are always just the animal which deals with physical needs in various ways. But to take the entirely Jewish view that we are not just animals, and we are capable of controlling these desires, and that the Torah has told us that the way to do so is by not following after our eyes, and our imagination.... That there is the ability to avoid these thoughts, which do have a negative spiritual energy. And as a man gets more and more righteous, in his study of Torah, and his observance of the mitzvahs done with joy. There will always be the yetzer hara which will attempt to tempt the man to go off his righteous path. For a man who has worked on attaining a high level, he must put up fences which prevent him from ever even contemplating being tempted by the physicality. It is this kind of story which highlights the attempt to create these fences.

All together I suspect that these glasses will not achieve their desired goal. As the ability to control the desire for viewing immodesty only comes from deep within the soul. As with anything else in this physical world, a man can figure out ways around the fences which they have created.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women
« Reply #189 on: August 19, 2012, 04:34:35 PM »

Some may argue that we are not able to tame these desires and that we are always just the animal which deals with physical needs in various ways. But to take the entirely Jewish view that we are not just animals, and we are capable of controlling these desires, and that the Torah has told us that the way to do so is by not following after our eyes, and our imagination.... That there is the ability to avoid these thoughts, which do have a negative spiritual energy. And as a man gets more and more righteous, in his study of Torah, and his observance of the mitzvahs done with joy. There will always be the yetzer hara which will attempt to tempt the man to go off his righteous path.

I can say since I started following Torah, my thought process has changed. I listen to my inner voice more, for example, I work on a university campus a lot so I try to avoid areas with young woman just because I think that's what G-d would want me to do. Also I find some of the things my coworkers say about women to be very offensive!
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline The One and Only Mo

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Re: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women
« Reply #190 on: August 19, 2012, 05:08:18 PM »
It just means people have different beliefs. Even if all of JTF disagrees with each other about this particular topic, we still agree on the important things.

Offline nessuno

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Re: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women
« Reply #191 on: August 19, 2012, 08:17:33 PM »
It just means people have different beliefs. Even if all of JTF disagrees with each other about this particular topic, we still agree on the important things.
True.
Be very CAREFUL of people whose WORDS don't match their ACTIONS.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women
« Reply #192 on: August 20, 2012, 04:40:43 PM »
I can say since I started following Torah, my thought process has changed. I listen to my inner voice more, for example, I work on a university campus a lot so I try to avoid areas with young woman just because I think that's what G-d would want me to do. Also I find some of the things my coworkers say about women to be very offensive!

See that's the thing with intentions again. While you can pitch loving G-d as the intention of not seeing women, I don't think G-d asked you to do that nor tells people to avoid women. Avoid doing bad. Go in front of these women. Observe your mind. If something depraved shows up, figure out what it is. Now you're level 3.
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Offline muman613

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Re: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women
« Reply #193 on: August 20, 2012, 05:22:02 PM »
See that's the thing with intentions again. While you can pitch loving G-d as the intention of not seeing women, I don't think G-d asked you to do that nor tells people to avoid women. Avoid doing bad. Go in front of these women. Observe your mind. If something depraved shows up, figure out what it is. Now you're level 3.

You are not correct. The Torah clearly says that a man should not have immodest thoughts. What you are saying is strictly your opinion only and it runs contrary to the Torah. I really think you are not well enough versed in the teachings of the Torah to make such a statement as you made above.

The relationship between a man and a woman is sacred and not something which can be trivialized {although you try over and over to do so}. The husband wife relationship IS HARMED when a mans thoughts are drawn toward illicit thoughts. The actions are bad, but the thoughts are bad also.

No man is permitted to be alone with a woman he is not married to... Examine the laws of Yichud... Why do we have these laws if it is A-OK for men and women who are not related to be together? Because according to our belief it is not proper for men and women to co-mingle and do-what-they-want together.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3246/jewish/Why-Is-Torah-Law-So-Restrictive-of-Contact-Between-the-Genders.htm


Why Is Torah Law So Restrictive of Contact Between the Genders?
By Manis Friedman


I understand that Torah law forbids all physical contact between a man and a woman -- or even for them to be alone in a room together -- unless they are first-degree relatives or married to each other. This applies to any man and any woman, regardless of their ages or whether or not  they are sexually attracted to each other. And then there are all those rules about "modest" dress. Isn't that carrying it a bit far? Are we really such animals?

Answer:

When a man and woman are together in a room, and the door closes, that is a sexual event. Not because of what is going to happen, but what has already happened. It may not be something to make novels of, but it is a sexual occurrence, because male and female is what sexuality used to be all about.

It is true that in our world today, in the "free world" certainly, people have, on the whole, stopped thinking in these terms. What happened was that we started putting up all these defenses, getting steeled, inured, against the constant exposure and stimulation of men and women sharing all sorts of activities -- co-educational school, camps, gyms -- is that we started blocking out groups of people. We can't be as naturally sexual as G-d created us to be. When a man says, "I have a woman friend, but we're just friends, nothing more, I'm not attracted to her in any sexual way, she's not my type," you've got to ask yourself what is really going on here. Is this a disciplined person? Or is this a person who has died a little bit?

What does he mean "she's not my type?" When did all this typing come into existence? It's all artificial. It's not true to human sexuality. And it really isn't even true in this particular context because given a slight change of circumstance, you could very easily be attracted. After all, you are a male, she's a female. How many times does a relationship begin that is casual, neighborly, and then suddenly becomes intimate? The great awakening of this boy and girl who are running around, doing all sorts of things, sharing all sorts of activities, and lo and behold, they realize -- what drama, what drama -- that they are attracted to each other. These are grown-ups, intelligent human beings, and it caught them by surprise. It's kind of silly.

So closing a door should be recognized as a sexual event. And you need to ask yourself: Are you prepared for this? Is it permissible? Is it proper? If not, leave the door open. Should men and women shake hands? Should it be seen as an intimate gesture? Should any physical contact that is friendly be considered intimate? Hopefully, it should.
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http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/the-laws-of-yichud/05.htm

Quote
A. The Definition of Yichud

Yichud is defined as the seclusion of a man with a woman.[23] Such seclusion is prohibited even for a short while.[24]
B. The Reason for the Prohibition of Yichud

The seclusion of a man and a woman is the first step towards a forbidden relationship; hence, the Torah forbids Yichud. However, let it be made absolutely clear that if a man and a woman are in a Yichud situation, even though nothing improper takes place, they are still in violation of the prohibition of Yichud.[25]
Even if a person is "absolutely sure" of him/herself, believing that "nothing will happen," there still exists a serious prohibition of Yichud. Furthermore, there is a rule: "There is no guarantee when it comes to Arayos." When a person places himself in a Yichud situation, the Yetzer Hara is extremely powerful, and no person can be absolutely sure that under such conditions he or she will withstand temptation.

C. Where is Yichud Prohibited?

Yichud is not only prohibited in a closed room or house, but Yichud also applies in any secluded area such as a quiet country spot, beach, park or forest. As long as the man and woman cannot be seen by other people and they are not afraid of intrusion, then Yichud applies.[26]
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You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women
« Reply #194 on: August 20, 2012, 08:33:36 PM »
Muman, spot on!

It's all about being less an animal.  That's what makes Judaism so perfect in my eyes.

It's when things start to get over trivialized let alone by men who over think when I start getting the headaches.  For me its the editing out of women or blurry glasses.  That's where I have to draw the line and say wait a second.  It's the forest, dummy; not the trees.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

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Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women
« Reply #195 on: August 22, 2012, 12:18:06 AM »
Isn't that impossible?  Really? 
Forget the glasses.
That sounds like we should have women walking around in burqas.  Maybe even the new 'one eyed burqa' so they can't wink at you. 
That is said with great respect to the Jewish religion.  I just don't understand that statement at all.  How is that even possible in every day life?  People have to have a little self control.  Temptation exists all day. Every day.  For everyone.
It's hard to correct for all of it.

I think your confusion is justified, and I think it stems from the fact that he is mistaken about what Judaism actually requires.   But it is not entirely his own fault (or maybe not at all) because this mindset is being ingrained in people from the top down, and increasingly so.   The leadership is at fault IMO.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women
« Reply #196 on: August 22, 2012, 12:20:10 AM »
Haven't you heard of "frumkas"?
http://blogs.jta.org/telegraph/article/2008/02/08/999793/the-frumka-orthodox-women-find-religion



Extreme modesty seems to be the trend.

Well, in the picture it might look like a "trend" because they took a picture of several women wearing this at the same time (both of them part of the same cult).

In reality, this burka-lady cult was an extremely small group of women following one nutjob woman who started it.

If you are saying that things are generally trending toward more stringency in the laws of modesty, then I agree with that, but this burka insanity is definitely NOT a trend!   It is an outgrowth of the same messed up mindset though, but still extremely rare.

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women
« Reply #197 on: August 22, 2012, 08:07:49 AM »
Those pics were taken on a cold winter day in Israel.  These might not be anything more than dressing warmly.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

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Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women
« Reply #198 on: August 22, 2012, 11:35:31 AM »
Those pics were taken on a cold winter day in Israel.  These might not be anything more than dressing warmly.


 No its real unfortunately, but its extremely rare. I think about 50 of them in Beit Shemesh.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women
« Reply #199 on: August 22, 2012, 01:00:18 PM »
OK so it's not a sin to do that, but it can tempt you, so because spirits apparently are not good and bad, but test and directly help you, then just get so good at beating this test that you don't have to think twice about it. If the owner of a company is a woman that  wants to sell you her company for a low price, would you not meet her over loosing the sale?
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge