Shalom

[Dan Ben Noah]

Shalom

[Zelhar]

I hope it reaches everyone who thinks of following Asher Meza and stop people from stepping into his trap.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

About time. I have been saying that Meza is not promoting true Torah values. As a Jew and someone as a Noahide should be repulsed.

 I also told you that Meza wasn't born Jewish, in the article it says soo and has a link to this

 "I wasn't trying to make a statement, but a statement was made," said Meza, a former Baptist preacher who converted to Judaism and studied to be a rabbi. "

[muman613]

This shmutz-bag was held up here by some members a few months ago. Only after Chaim pointed out how much of a hater of Israel and how much he goes against Jewish tradition {claiming that the whole world should convert to Judaism} do some people see through this heretics ruse.

My name for this joker is 'Acher Metzora'... Roughly translated as 'The Other Leper'...


I want to know if he ever got Smicha, if so from whom, and that person should lose their ability to teach Torah...

[USAReturn2GodNow1776]

I wonder is his desire to mass convert has anything to do with his Hispanicness

[muman613]

Well it was probably more influenced by the fact that he was a Baptist minister.  Baptists are big into missionary work, and as Protestants, have no qualms about rejecting the greater Christian community based on their own independent interpretation of the Christian Bible, which is what Asher Meza is doing with the Mishneh Torah.

I do like his videos exposing Christianity, Islam, the black Hebros, and Chabad though.  They are lashon ha-awesome.

You realize Lashon Hara is a aveirah, a transgression.... So you like Rabbis which engage in prohibited activity? Very strange... Maybe if he advised Jews to eat non-Kosher you would like him even more?

What he said about Chabad was not awesome, it was shameful... Even Chaim pointed out how evil and sick your Acher Metzora is... Do you just pick and choose those commandments which suit your desire? If he offends the people you offend then he is cool? What a joke...

[muman613]

It is sickening that pukes like this Acher Metzora speak ill about good Jews when this punk is a convert who's understanding of Torah is sick and twisted and yet people like Dan Ben Noach hang on his every hateful and twisted word. He is about as bad as that German kid who thinks he runs JDL Germany and calls himself a Rabbi...

I know Chabad and what has been said about them is utter rubbish. Isn't it odd these neo-Jews are the ones who inspire the most hatred between Jews?

[Zelhar]

It is irrelevant if Asher Meza is Jew by birth or by conversion. His actions of heresy and fraud are the issue. He is misleading Jews and righteous gentiles from true Judaism to his crazy distortion.

Also, there is a way to conduct discussion within Judaism with mutual respect and without strife.

[muman613]

It is irrelevant if Asher Meza is Jew by birth or by conversion. His actions of heresy and fraud are the issue. He is misleading Jews and righteous gentiles from true Judaism to his crazy distortion.

Also, there is a way to conduct discussion within Judaism with mutual respect and without strife.

Amen... I hope that this putz gets the message that he is not wanted by the Jewish people...

[muman613]

The stuff I was talking about was not lashon hara.  It is not wrong to expose Chabad mystical doctrines any more than it's wrong for any Jew to expose the black Hebros or Christians.  There are other people besides him doing this which I don't necessarily agree with everything they say.  Asher Meza is wrong for the misuse of Mishneh Torah which this Yemenite rabbi is accusing him of along with his anti-Zionist sentiment, not for exposing Chabad.  And I'm no follower of his, if I were I would not have brought this article to the forum.

There is nothing wrong with Chabad using Kabbalah, as it is a form of Chassidic Judaism and there are several strains of Chassidic Judaism {Breslov and Belz are two examples}. So your problem is with Chassidic Judaism in general? Or is it because some people claim that Chabad believes that their Rebbe was Moshiach {which as I have said many times does not represent the majority of Chabad Rabbis (and none of the Chabad Rabbis I know personally)}.

It makes sense that anti-Zionists would attack Chabad considering how much great pro-Zionist work the Rebbe engaged in. And Chabad today is a proud Zionist organization which encourages all Chabad members to visit or make aliyah to Israel. It is because of this that that troll from a couple months ago came here to besmirch Chabad... It is clear that most of the opposition to Chabad which came from Jewish quarters all came from anti-Zionist jews...

The Chabad organization is considered very helpful to Jewish causes around the world. It is because of Chabads being on the forefront of Jewish issues around the world which make them a target of many enemies of the Jewish people.

I really cant see any reason why anyone would stand against Chabad. They are an organization which goes to great lengths to bring Jews back into observance of the mitzvot. Just yesterday my Chabad Rabbi performed the mitzvah of Pidyen HaBen {Redemption of the Firstborn son} on me and we had a great feast in the afternoon {Seudah}... I love my Chabad Rabbis and there is no disinformation in this world which can make me speak anything against them.
http://www.aish.com/jl/l/b/Pidyon_Haben_-_Redemption_of_First_Born.html

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Yes but Meza is not attacking Chabad from an anti-Zionist perspective but because they are mystics and the Tanya is Jewish supremacist.

That is plain falsehood. The Tanya is not a Jewish supremacist book. That is pure garbage he was saying. Chabad also do outreach to non-Jews and they show great respect to all. That is the real reason he was attacking them- because they teach the 7 Mitzwoth Bnai Noah, which supposedly is an evil thing to do? You yourself are a Bnai Noah you should be outraged with the guy since he is attacking you for being a non-Jew. That is the true "Jewish supremacy"- (which is not even Jewish) that he is preaching. 

Muman  " And Chabad today is a proud Zionist organization which encourages all Chabad members to visit or make aliyah to Israel."

 Actually the stance of the previous Rebbe was you either go to Israel and stay or you don't go to Israel at all, soo be careful when different people will twist this in their different ways (ether say see how anti-zionist he was because he did not even go to Israel once, or see how zionist he was in that he said one cannot leave Israel if they go there- but whatever I know a Chabad girl who was in Israel and then went back to hutzlaaretz.

[muman613]

I'm sure that there are many good people in Chabad just as there are in many groups that aren't doctrinally sound.

LOL.... According to your opinion...

Chabad is full of Good Jews who keep the 613 commandments according to Shulchan Aruch...

[muman613]

The Tanya is derived from the Talmud, as the quote you posted above points out... Actually portions of that Tanya are derived from King Solomons Proverbs/Mishlei...


http://www.kby.org/hebrew/torat-yavneh/view.asp?id=3582

The souls of the nations of the world, however, emanate from the other, unclean kelipot which contain no good whatever, as is written in Etz Chayim, Portal 49, ch. 3, that all the good that the nations do, is done from selfish motives. So the Gemara comments on the verse, "The kindness of the nations is sin,"— that all the charity and kindness done by the nations of the world is only for their own self-glorification, and so on.

http://www.kby.org/hebrew/torat-yavneh/view.asp?id=3582

In order to explain this, we need to understand the nature of Avraham Avinu's chesed. King Shlomo says, "Charity will uplift a nation, but the kindness of nations is a sin." (Mishlei 14:34) The charity that Am Yisrael does uplifts it, but the kindness of the other nations is a sin. Why?

"Chesed" in Judaism does not flow just from mercy and compassion for the other, but from desire to benefit and help another. "Chesed" - doing good, is a goal to itself, because it is an expression of going in the way of Hashem, as Chazal say: "Just as he is merciful, you also be merciful; just as He does kindness, you also do kindness." (cf. Shabbat 133b) Through doing kindness, a person connects to his Creator, and therefore there is a natural, inner desire, to do kindness with others. Thus, Avraham Avinu seeks to do chesed even though there were no guests outside; he aspires to express his inner desire to go in the way of Hashem. This kind of chesed is only in Judaism. However, the nations of the world who do kindness do so only because of a feeling of compassion and mercy to help the other, and about this it says, "the kindness of nations is a sin" - this is not ideal and complete chesed.

[muman613]

I hope it is not a shock to some people that the Talmud does mention that Jews have a special relationship {even a special soul} compared to the non-Jew...

http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/192,2172582/Can-you-describe-the-Jewish-soul.html

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

Enough you two! Muman, you started this with your very first post! Dan, I don't understand your negative stance on mysticism? It has been part of Judaism from the beginning, maybe not all sect but some! And some mysticism from Israel has been past down in secret, including the seven Noachide laws!

[muman613]

Enough you two! Muman, you started this with your very first post! Dan, I don't understand your negative stance on mysticism? It has been part of Judaism from the beginning, maybe not all sect but some! And some mysticism from Israel has been past down in secret, including the seven Noachide laws!

I didn't start this thread.... I responded to it..

[muman613]

Enough you two! Muman, you started this with your very first post! Dan, I don't understand your negative stance on mysticism? It has been part of Judaism from the beginning, maybe not all sect but some! And some mysticism from Israel has been past down in secret, including the seven Noachide laws!

Mysticism has been a part of Judaism since before there were Jews on the planet. The 1st books of Kabbalah are attributed to Adam, and others are attributed to Abraham...

Look into the concept of the Torah existing for 2000 years before the creation of the world.... Which comes from..... The Talmud...

The Midrash tells us that Hashem created the Torah two thousand years before He created the universe (Midrash Beraishis Rabbah, 8). When the time came to create the universe, Hashem used the Torah as a blueprint. Just as a builder places walls where the blueprint says to put them, and doors where the blueprint says to put them, Hashem created the Torah and used that as a blueprint. (Midrash Beraishis Rabbah 1:1)

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

I didn't start this thread.... I responded to it..

No! Muman your first response was directed at Dan!

[muman613]

No! Muman your first response was directed at Dan!

Not exactly true.... I only reacted when Dan started his attack on Chabad...

My first response on this thread was just agreeing that Acher Metzora has gone 'off-the-derek' so to speak..

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,63320.msg556998.html#msg556998

In response to this:

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,63320.msg557029.html#msg557029

I do like his videos exposing Christianity, Islam, the black Hebros, and Chabad though.  They are lashon ha-awesome.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

Not exactly true.... I only reacted when Dan started his attack on Chabad...

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,63320.msg556998.html#msg556998

In response to this:

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,63320.msg557029.html#msg557029

OK, but this seemed directed at two members"This shmutz-bag was held up here by some members a few months ago."

And I have to say this Meza is a total piece of garbage!

[muman613]

I have no problem with people questioning or even not approving of Chabad. But when it becomes a broken record and the person repeats the same incorrect accusations against them, then I begin to get upset.

I have clearly said that Meshichism in Chabad is wrong. The issue of whether the Rebbe is Moshiach is mute. There is no argument that could make me believe that he was the Moshiach at this time. My experience is that Chabad doesn't teach this, and of all the Chabad Rabbis I know they don't believe it themselves. The issue, which I have explained before, is concerning Sparks of Moshiach. This concept I understand and I believe as part of my emmunah {we are to believe that Moshiach can come at any moment}.

AS I am a descendant of Chassidic Jews I naturally have an affinity to Chassidic beliefs. I have not seen any Chassidic belief which opposes the Tanakh or the Talmud, and while Minhag {customs} may be different between various Jewish sects this is acceptable. There are differences in Minhag between Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews also, and each one keeps their minhagim...

[muman613]

Proverbs 14:34 isn't talking about souls of individuals, but the deeds of nations.  As Rashi comments, it's talking about regimes that rob from one group in order to dispense "kindness" to others.

Study a little more and you will discover the true nature of the difference between the Jewish nation and the nations of the world.

We are a special nation... This cannot be taken from us...

[muman613]

The interpretation of that verse in Mishlie goes far beyond what Rashi points out:

http://www.shemayisrael.co.il/parsha/review/archives/haazinu59.htm
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All this proceeds from a judgement whose goodness is intense, whose purpose is that the light of holiness and goodness will grow stronger and increase.

In regard to entire nations, every good deed carried out by an evil nation strengthens the universal evil. "The mercy of nations is a sin" (Proverbs 14:34) [because they act solely out of self-interest (Bava Basra 10b)].

The nation of Israel, on the other hand, is "a righteous nation, keeping good faith" (Is. 26:2). And the Holy One is exacting with those who surround Him. This is true of the entire nation of Israel: "Only you have I known from all the families of the earth; therefore, I will visit upon you all your sins" (Amos 3:2).

When the greater part of a source is good, this indicates that really in its inner being it is entirely good. Every sin that comes from such a source actually contains in the wealth of its inner being great light and vast salvation.
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[muman613]

I assume that you would agree that Judaism at one time was united, and sects only came into being after the Jews were dispersed.  So in the beginning there were no sects.  If this is true, how could mysticism, if it was there in the beginning, only have been a part of Judaism for some?  If it was authentic Torah it would have been passed down with the rest of the Torah along with the written Scriptures and the Talmudic literature.  The fact is that what is referred to as Jewish mysticism today is a later innovation that was not passed on by the prophets.  Any secret knowledge that was passed on by them has been lost.  Also the Noahide laws are not secret.  They are part of the oral tradition and the covenant with Noah can be seen in scripture.  Mysticism and Kabbalah are different from Oral Torah.  Kabbalah is based on Zohar and various other texts that came into being much later.

Not exactly true... There are many sources of Kabbalah, not just the Zohar... And these texts are discussed in Talmud. The facts concerning the mystical nature of the Torah are that not everyone was privy to learning them. The start of studying Kabbalah was after a man turned 40 years old.

There are many mystical passages in Talmud and Medrash.... Why don't you believe the Talmud?

[muman613]

Special nation doesn't mean superior souls.  If this is the case, Ezekiel wouldn't have included Noah and Job in the list of people who could have saved themselves by their righteousness, because, as the Tanya puts it, Noah and Job were only righteous because of selfish motives.

In fact Noah was not on as high of level as Jews are. While he was 'the most righteous' at his time he did not pray for the well-being of the world as our father Abraham prayed for the residents of Sodom and Amora.