Author Topic: Self-hating coward Avigdor Miller calls for Israel's destruction  (Read 1986 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Sally613

  • New JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Note from Chaim Ben Pesach: I changed the title of this thread to better reflect what is being written here by this self-hating cowardly troll who has signed on to this forum a million times and been banned a million times. This troll just cuts and pastes portions of what the mental case Avigdor Miller said about how we should not have a Jewish state or a Jewish homeland and how we should all live with the shvartzes in Brooklyn. Below is what this sick troll cut and pasted:

"Zionism is the opposite of Torah...in some ways...even further than Christianity from the truth...The Zionists claim no form of religion...Does not Zionism, or the State of Israel, present an ideology which could preserve the Jewish identity?  Even if it did, this would be a purely artificial ideology and could not appeal to a rational and truth-seeking mind.  What right do atheists have to claim a land, unless by force of arms?  It is not an ideology but an organization, and it cannot logically demand allegiance.  There is no reason, according to such an artificial ideology why Jews should not lose themselves among the gentiles by assimilation and that is why a number of their leaders took gentile wives.  It is [a] logical result of this lack of rational foundation that so many of the Israeli-born youth leave the country and are lost among the nations.  The State of Israel presents the greatest peril to Jewish existence in history...Never before were Jews under the influence of such a powerful group of Jewish atheists.  The Yevsekzia (Jewish communists) in Russia combated Judaism and urged assimilation, and they ruined millions of souls.  But the leaders of the State of Israel speak Hebrew and proclaim themselves the true Jews, and they declare that no belief in G-d and in a Torah is necessary to be genuine Jew.  Then gentiles who settle in the State of Israel and support it are also to be considered as Jews.  This is precisely what the Government of Israel is doing.  To facilitate matters, they have arranged (by means of the "religious" Zionists) for easy conversion-procedures whereby non-Jews are certified as genuine Jews.  Thus the world becomes flooded not only with Jewish atheists who speak Hebrew and are supremely confident in their genuine Jewishness, but also with an unlimited number of true gentiles who speak Hebrew and are certified as Jews by the Israeli government.  What Haman and Titus could not do, the Israelis are attempting:  the first could only attempt to destroy the physical existence of Israel, but the State of Israel is attempting to counterfeit the term Jew and to erase all boundaries between Jew and non-Jew.  No true seeker is deceived by these men; it is solely the self-seekers or those who seek to escape from the Torah who have any interest in Zionism or secular Hebraism.  The assimilated Jew seeks a sedative for his conscience, and he therefore welcomes Zionism and Israel as an easy and meaningless substitute for true Judaism.  Actually, the State of Israel solves nothing.  All "problems" remain the same, and new ones are created.  For example:  1)The Arabian lands have been rendered uninhabitable for Jews; 2) constant wars with neighbors must be waged, incurring huge military expenditures and loss of many lives, in addition to constant peril; 3)  it has exacerbated Jew-hatred in the nations, due to Arab influence and also to embroilment with the foreign policy of the nations; 4) and the proponents of the State of Israel attempt to kindle a fire under the Jews in all lands in order to make their position untenable so that they emigrate to augment the population of the new State.  (For example, Ben Gurion's statement in the N.Y. Times 4/22/1963 "Jews are in truth a separate element in the midst of the peoples among whom they live, an element that cannot be completely absorbed by any nation.  For this reason no nation can calmly tolerate it in its midst.")."    -----Rabbi Avigdor Miller, Sing You Righteous

"To fill the hollow caused by the lack of Torah, the straying multitude created a substitute in the form of Zionism.  This counterfeit of Judaism, together with Marxism and Bundism, overwhelmed the last generation of Eastern Europe; and since the emergence of the State of Israel the Zionists have made themselves the spokesmen for the Jewish people and claim to be their saviors.  Let us see what they have accomplished.  They have succeeded in gaining for Jews the hostility of the entire Arab world and of most of the "Third World" nations.  They have fomented bad relations with Russia and to some extent with France and Mexico.  They have created animosity in the United States and elsewhere.  These achievements are of small benefit to Jews, but the Israelis and their Zionist proponents are persistent, because they hope to make all lands untenable for Jews (as they did in all Moslem countries) so that Jews be forced to settle in the State of Israel which is losing the population race against the local Arabs (one million Jewish babies have been slain by abortion in the State of Israel from 1948 to 1976, equal to the number of Jewish children slain by Hitler).  It is not surprising that the Israelis have so little interest in universal Israel and in historic Israel, and many are disloyal even to their own State.  The first of May has been enthusiastically celebrated in Israel from its outset, because the leading parties (with the largest organisation and most institutions and periodicals) are followers of Karl Marx.  It is ridiculous to expect of Marxists that they should have loyalty to an ethnic or religious state, or to have loyalty to anything but Power.  Those who disbelieve in a Creator have not the slightest logical inhibition against betraying their own countrymen, or against pocketing public funds for themselves, or against any form of moral perversion or social injustice.  Atheists, and disbelievers in a Torah from Sinai, are obviously insincere in any declarations of principles of any kind; they can have no more principle than birds and insects.  The charlatan "idealists" ridicule the materialists for seeking ease and luxury, and for neglecting the noble aspirations of "social justice."  They themselves are truly ridiculous, for insects or plants need no aspirations other than their own desires.  These men are actually the least interested in any idealism.....A heavy blood-guilt lies on the heads of the leaders of the Zionist organisations, together with the Jewish Agency and the heads of the State of Israel.  Their conspiracy of intentional silence was instrumental in foiling the attempts to rescue Jews from the Nazi annihilation, and they also actively frustrated the efforts of the rescuers.  The Zionists betrayed their people and forsook them to their fate, because the Zionists had also betrayed their people's ideals.  They have so completely falsified the genuine attitude of historic Israel that today the Israelis and their sympathisers have more in common with the most depraved gentiles than with Jews.  "Entering the army at 18, for most young women means their first experience away from home and their introduction to sexual intercourse...At headquarters there is much socialising, encouraged by regular army officers.  Frequent parties are held, and the easy-going familiarity promotes an eroticism that is distinctly Jewish" (A History of the Israeli Army, by Zeev Schiff, p. 124).  "Jewish eroticism" is a new concept which does not exist outside of the minds of Zionists and Israelis.  In a poll of Israeli youth, the majority declared that had they not been born as Jews they would prefer to be non-Jews.  "In Israel, prior to the legalisation of abortions, the vast number of abortions were performed on unmarried girls mainly in the army" (Jewish Press, Oct. 6, 78).  Today the slaughter of Jewish babies is even greater.  A generation has developed in the State of Israel which hates Judaism, and a large class of serious criminals also exists.  Pornography and every form of degradation are now available in the Holy Land.  The venom of the Israeli press against observant Jews is unequalled anywhere.  Like all substitutes for Torah-Judaism, Zionism has proved a dismal failure; and like all false systems, it should be easy to recognise its hollowness and its malignity....The Zionist leaders together with the Reform "rabbis" aided substantially in the destruction of the European Jews.  In July 1938 President Roosevelt convened the Evian Conference to consider the problem of Jewish refugees.  At that time a German offer was made to release Jews at $250 per person.  The Jewish Agency, headed by Golda Meir, decided to ignore the offer.  At this conference, the delegation from the Jewish Agency made no effort to influence the United States or any of the 32 other participating nations to open their gates to admit German Jews.  When a shipload of Jewish refugees on the Danube river were refused permission to disembark anywhere, Henry Montor the leader of the United Jewish Appeal explained that they could not be allowed to sail to the Holy Land because "Palestine cannot be flooded with...old people or with undesirables" (Feb. 1, 1940).  On Nov. 25, 1940 the Haganah commanders ordered the blowing up of the ship Patria in Haifa Harbor as a protest against England's plan to send refugees to Mauritius instead of to Palestine, and thus 272 Jewish refugees perished.  On Dec. 17, 1942 both houses of the British Parliament declared readiness to afford temporary residence for endangered persons, but on Jan. 27 a spokesman for the Zionists stated that the Jews opposed the motion because Palestine was omitted.  The New York papers (Feb. 16, 1943) publicised Roumania's offer of 70,000 Jews of Trans-Dniestria at the price of $50 each.  On Feb. 24 Stephen Wise of the president of the American Jewish Congress and leader of U.S. Zionists publicly denied the authenticity of the offer and declared that no collection of funds "would seem justified."  The Jewish Agency in England also ridiculed the news of the Roumanian offer.  But Undersecretary of State A.A. Berle affirmed privately that the Roumanian government had actually made such an offer to the State Department.  Some time later, when all the Jews who could have been rescued had been annihilated, the facts of the offer were confirmed by Bartley Crum, an expert on affairs of the Near East, who declared that the 70,000 Jews could easily have been transported through Turkey by a few days' travel in trucks, but the State Department had refrained from publicising the news of the offer due to Jewish (Zionist) pressure.  On Feb. 18, 1943 Yitzchak Greenbaum, chairman of the "Rescue" Committee of the Jewish Agency declared at a Zionist Executive Council in Tel-Aviv: "When they asked me: Could you not give money from the United Jewish Appeal funds for the rescue of Jews in Europe?  I said No!  And I say again, No!  One should resist this wave which pushes the Zionist activities to secondary importance."  In 1944 the Emergency Committee to Save the Jewish People called upon the United States to establish a War Refugee Board.  Stephen Wise came before an especial committee of Congress to object to this proposal.  In 1948 President Roosevelt planned to open the gates of America to 150,000 refugees, and Great Britain agreed to follow suit.  When Roosevelt's emissary Morris L. Ernst came to England, the Zionist leaders declared:  "This is treason.  You are undermining the Zionist movement."  As a result, Roosevelt informed Great Britain that the project must be abandoned:  "We cannot put it over because the dominant vocal Jewish leadership won't stand for it."  In 1947 Congressman William Stratton sponsored a bill to grant immediate entry to the U.S. of 400,000 displaced persons.  The bill was publicly denounced by the Zionist leaders, and it was therefore not passed.  On Feb. 24, 1956 J.W. Pickersgill the minister of immigration was asked in the Canadian House of Commons:  "Would he open the doors of Canada to Jewish refugees?"  He replied: "The government has made no progress in that direction, because the government of Israel...does not wish us to do so."  On July 15, 1971 the Zionist leaders, through Herman Weissman the president of the Zionist Organisation of America, successfully opposed an effort in the U.S. Congress to allow 30,000 Russian refugees to enter the United States.  But when we turn to view the deeds of the true leaders of Israel we see an entirely different picture.  The Sages of our people, following the principles of Torah, concentrated all their thoughts and efforts on the saving of Jewish lives.  The Vaad Hatzalah was organised by the Torah-leaders, and they toiled to raise money and to carry on negotiations and to send help to their suffering and imperilled brethren.  They were not supported by the wealthy, they were ignored by the big "Jewish" organisations, and they were opposed and slandered by the irreligious.  But it was they, and only they, who actually succeeded in rescuing many Jews and bringing them to a safe haven.  Had Jews in America, Canada, England, Australia, South Africa and Switzerland and elsewhere followed the Torah-leaders, the story would have been entirely different.  Rabbi Weismandel of Nitra poured out his heart's blood in the effort to save Jewish lives, but the "reform" (assimilationist) and Zionist leaders of the deluded Jewish masses in the free countries turned a deaf ear to his impassioned entreaties.  Because the Jewish populace of Eastern Europe, like those elsewhere, had ceased to regard the Gedolei-Torah as their leaders and spokesmen, and they had given prestige and power to atheists and enemies of the Torah, now in their hour of bitter need they were given a taste of the bitterness of non-Torah leadership.  At the famed Kastner trial it was revealed that the Zionist leaders in Hungary, in cooperation with the world Zionist leaders, had betrayed the Jewish masses and had prevented them from taking steps to save themselves by flight over the nearby border.  At the same trial it was also revealed that Joel Brand, the emissary who went to meet the Zionist leaders, in Turkey and Palestine, to plead for a relatively small ransom fund to save many Jews from annihilation, was deceived by the chief Zionist leaders and was maneuvered by their trickery into a British prison, where he languished in despair until all those that had sent him were wiped out.  Rabbi Weismandel sent urgent and impassioned appeals for small funds to stave off the deportation of thousands.  The assimilationists and Zionists of Switzerland and other neutral countries and of the rich communities overseas refused his request.  The Reform "Rabbis" and the disloyal, to whom the public Jewish funds were entrusted, scorned the messages which Rabbi Weismandel smuggled out at the risk of his life, and they allowed the masses of Slovakian and Hungarian Jews to be transported to the German killing-centers.  It was because European Jews put their trust in atheistic Zionist leaders that these leaders everywhere became the lackeys of the Nazis in all the Ghettos.  They were the machinery which served efficiently in the task of keeping the Jews docile and of persuading and coercing them to be sent off to their deaths.  No Torah-leader ever cooperated with the Nazis in the destruction machinery...."In the way that a man measures, so is it measured to him" (Megillah 12 B).  The masses (many of them still observant) that read the periodicals of the Zionists and looked up to the anti-Torah spokesmen, now saw how these same leaders were the implements of the people's destruction.  The ugly face that the errant leaders display is the result of looking up to the nations for guidance, and these non-Torah spokesmen usually mimic the worst elements of the gentile world....It is important to ascertain with whom the child associates (even in the best schools there is, relatively speaking, an "underworld").  There should be no going out at night at all.  Children should not visit alone with modern-orthodox relatives."          ----Rabbi Avigdor Miller, Awake My Glory
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 02:36:16 PM by Chaim Ben Pesach »

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller זצ״ל on Zionism
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2013, 11:07:03 PM »
Hogwash.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5462
Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller זצ״ל on Zionism
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2013, 11:51:03 PM »
I read the first part. He is dead wrong. The state wasn't just created in a vacuum. Do they forget the pogroms and holocaust that happened? The religious Zionist conversions are more then enough in halahic standards and they cannot invent new humrot and then expect everyone to abide by what they think or what is in fashion for them. and about the character of the state we agree it needs to be more jewish that is why you need to support the positions of Kach which actually would and will Israel a fully jewish state.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5462
Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller זצ״ל on Zionism
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2013, 12:02:22 AM »
Also let us hear what you propose?  Okay you won't associate with and prevent your children from speaking to modern orthodox and dati eliminate Jews. Then what? What is your solution ? To just sit and wait, that is your big plan and ideology?   
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12593
Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller זצ״ל on Zionism
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2013, 06:21:19 AM »
Gd showed he was a Zionist by promising Abraham avinu, yitzahk, yaacov and their offspring all of the land of caanan.


FYI, the original poster was a troll that was banned a million times for simply cutting and pasting on threads and calling a man homosexual if he incidentally found a black female attractive.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Yerusha

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1365
Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller זצ״ל on Zionism
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2013, 07:33:01 AM »

Online Chaim Ben Pesach

  • Administrator
  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5777
Re: Self-hating coward Avigdor Miller calls for Israel's destruction
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2013, 02:47:00 PM »
בס''ד

This idiot mentions Kastner, who was the head of the traitorous "Jewish Agency" in Hungary and who helped the German Nazis murder hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews. What this mental midget does not mention is that the anti-Zionist Satmar rebbe whom Avigdor Miller adored also sold out Hungarian Jewry and even his own Satmar followers just to save himself during the holocaust. The Satmar rebbe was on the Kastner train of Judenrat traitors who made a deal with the German Nazis to get out of Hungary and save themselves at the expense of Hungarian Jews. Kastner convinced Hungarian Jews to obey the German Nazis and to go peacefully to the Nazi death camps where they were brutally murdered.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5462
Re: Self-hating coward Avigdor Miller calls for Israel's destruction
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2013, 05:07:08 PM »
I don't agree with that haskaffa, but I would be careful with that title of him since I know a lot of good people who talked positively about him. I personally don't know much about him though.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: Self-hating coward Avigdor Miller calls for Israel's destruction
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2013, 09:38:00 PM »
Although hashkaficallly twisted, Miller's tutelage has helped produce chashuv rebbeim, one of whom I met and I say without hesitation is a big tzaddik.  Luckily he does not subscribe to all of his rebbe's political commentary.  But I think to be fair although on some of these matters Miller oversimplified and propagates very inaccurate polemic, just from knowing one rabbinical "outcome" of his teachings I simply cannot accept that R Miller was all bad or a bad guy at all.  It seems impossible.   Unless this rabbi just gives too much credit to his rebbe in his own character refinement?  But I don't think so.