An ancient Gold Medallion with a Menora (curved branches)Found Near Temple Mount

[edu]

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/171717#.Ui9lQtLimSo

In summer excavations at the foot of the Temple Mount, Hebrew University of Jerusalem archaeologist Dr. Eilat Mazar made a stunning discovery: two bundles of treasure containing thirty-six gold coins, gold and silver jewelry, and a gold medallion with the menorah (Temple candelabrum) symbol etched into it. Also etched into the 10-cm medallion are a shofar (ram’s horn) and the image of a Torah scroll.

The medallion may be the oldest Torah ornament ever found in archaeological digs.

A third-generation archaeologist working at the Hebrew University’s Institute of Archaeology, Dr. Mazar directs excavations on the City of David’s summit and at the Temple Mount’s southern wall. Calling the find “a breathtaking, once-in-a-lifetime discovery,” Dr. Mazar said: “We have been making significant finds from the First Temple Period in this area, a much earlier time in Jerusalem’s history, so discovering a golden seven-branched Menorah from the seventh century CE at the foot of the Temple Mount was a complete surprise.”

The discovery was unearthed just five days into Mazar’s latest phase of the Ophel excavations, and can be dated to the late Byzantine period (early seventh century CE).  The gold treasure was discovered in a ruined Byzantine public structure a mere 50 meters from the Temple Mount’s southern wall.

The vast majority of archaeological discoveries as well as ancient diagrams of the menora by Rishonim (although Rambam's view is subject to debate), indicate that the menorah had curved branches (except for the middle branch). This is in contrast to the strong campaign that Chabad wages, trying to convince the public that all the menorah branches were straight.

[muman613]

What is to debate about Rambams view. His view was clearly that the menorah had straight branches...


In stark contrast to the above finds is the image shown here of a drawing attributed to the hand of Rambam (Maimonides). Unlike the previous pieces of evidence which may or may not have been depicting the actual Menorah of the Temple, this drawing does just that. It is intended to be an accurate rendering of what the Menorah looked like, and while it is not drawn to scale, all of its components and dimensions are labelled. From the fact that the curvature of the base is drawn so precisely, most likely with the aid of a compass, it is apparent that the artist could just have easily drawn curved branches had he so desired. We may conclude that, in the view of Rambam, the Menorah of the Temple had straight branches. Below is a 3-D rendering of what the Rambam Menorah would have looked like.


For more information on the question of the shape of the Menorah see:

http://www.torah.org/learning/templetour/chanukah-4.html

I have not watched yet, but this video explains the reasons of Rambam's for the straight branched menorah..

http://theyeshiva.net/Video/View/372/What-Was-the-Real-Shape-of-the-Menorah

[edu]

Go To http://www.biu.ac.il/jh/parasha/veyakhel/shni.html and you will find 2 pre-printing press drawings of the menorah that accompanied Rashi's commentary on the Torah. Both have curved branches.
Go to printed Gemaras of our times to Menachot 98b. There you will see a curved branch Menorah.
Some people were thrown off about Rashi's view, not having seen the ancient manuscripts and also because they wrongly misunderstood what Rashi meant by the Hebrew word
אלכסון  in one place in his commentary.
I will bli neder try to deal with that another time.

[edu]

Muman613
Go to Hebrewbooks.org and download Rambam's Hebrew commentary on Mishnayot for Tractate Middot as well as other parts of Kodshim
Here's a link http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=37948&pgnum=1
Once you press the download button there go to page 373
It has a diagram of the Mikdash attributed to the Rambam with a curved branched menora.
Furthermore in the Rambam's own synagogue they had drawings of curved branched menoras which existed from a hundred years before his time and lasted till modern times.
Such I read, but have to double check.
There are other reasons which might lead one to dispute this view concerning Rambam's opinion.
So at this point in time I just said Rambam's view is debateable.

[edu]

According to our sages, the area called Banias (or very nearby) in modern times is  the source or start of the Jordan River
If you understand the Hebrew you can read the article at
http://www.daat.ac.il/encyclopedia/value.asp?id1=3873
explaining why this is so.
For an english map tracing the Jordan River going from Banias to the Sea Of Galilee (the Kinneret)
see http://www.passia.org/publications/bulletins/water-eng/pages/water04.pdf
Although the path of the water from the Banias is not in a straight line but rather a curved line as the Jordan River starts and makes it way to the Sea of Galilee (Kinneret) it is described in Rashi's commentary on the Torah, namely to Bamidbar (Numbers) 34:11, as going in an
אלכסון
direction . We see from that statement that this Hebrew word as defined by Rashi includes curved lines.
So when Rashi describes the branches of the menorah in his commentary to Exodus (Shmot) 25:32
as going up in an
אלכסון
direction, he does not necessarily mean in straight diagonal lines. He also would allow curved lines. And indeed the diagrams that went along with Rashi's commentary on the Torah (before the invention of the printing press) showed the branches of the menorah going up in curved lines from the central base. Not straight lines.

[edu]

The above picture is a from Rambam's commentary to Mishna Menachot
Rabbi Yisrael Ariel head of Machon Hamikdash points out
בספרו מנורת זהב טהור
10 contradictions between details of the menorah in the above sketch versus what Rambam writes should be in the menorah.
Rabbi Ariel's conclusion that the above sketch was never meant to be an exact representation of the menorah but just as a rough sketch to provide an easy way to remember the quantity of "Gviim, Prachim, and Caftorim" in the menorah and roughly where they are located.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

What is to debate about Rambams view. His view was clearly that the menorah had straight branches...

And clearly wrong.

There are 100's of artifacts depicting curved branches. See, the thing about a debate is that one side has to be wrong.

[muman613]

And clearly wrong.

There are 100's of artifacts depicting curved branches. See, the thing about a debate is that one side has to be wrong.

Of course I realize that. I was not arguing that. My question was on Edus statement that Rambams position was 'debatable'. He explained that there does appear to be a misunderstanding as to what that drawing was meant to represent.

That was my question. I am also sure that Chabad doesn't presume that the Chanukahiah which they use is the actual design of the menorah in the Temple.