Author Topic: The concept of democracy  (Read 4430 times)

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Offline RationalThought110

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The concept of democracy
« on: August 02, 2007, 07:38:06 AM »
I read the following in an archived JTF article:

   "One of the Torah commandments is: "You shall not follow a multitude to do evil." (Exodus 23:2)" 

   "But even if we were to adopt the very un-Jewish concept of "democracy," Rubin's argument is absurd."     

   This last part was in reference to Irv Rubin's declaration that all Jews must support Ariel Sharon. 

 
So since "democracy" is an un-Jewish concept, what type of government fits Judaism? 

newman

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Re: The concept of democracy
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2007, 09:09:14 AM »
That one needs a Rabbi, but I think a system of 'Judges' like Samson and Deborah would be good. At least you get the most outstanding of each generation then.

Offline kahaneloyalist

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Re: The concept of democracy
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2007, 09:51:48 AM »
That is a Makhloket between the Ibn Ezra, and the Abarbanel on side, who hold that a weak Sanhedrin that appoints dictators as needed, like in the time of the Shoftim.

The Rambam and Sefer HaChinuch hold that a Malkhut(Kingship) that rules with the Sanhedrin with specific powers given to each is the correct system.

Mind you this is on the national level local government is Democratic
"For it is through the mercy of fools that all Justice is lost"
Ramban

newman

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Re: The concept of democracy
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2007, 09:56:01 AM »
That is a Makhloket between the Ibn Ezra, and the Abarbanel on side, who hold that a weak Sanhedrin that appoints dictators as needed, like in the time of the Shoftim.

The Rambam and Sefer HaChinuch hold that a Malkhut(Kingship) that rules with the Sanhedrin with specific powers given to each is the correct system.

Mind you this is on the national level local government is Democratic

What do they do if the dictator goes out of control?

Didn't G_d counsel against having Kings some time after the book of Judges?

Offline kahaneloyalist

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Re: The concept of democracy
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2007, 10:36:10 AM »
The dictator would be deposed under such circumstances, and no Hashem was against having a King in order to be like the other nations, when done for the correct reasons, Malchut is a Mitzvah
"For it is through the mercy of fools that all Justice is lost"
Ramban

Offline RationalThought110

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Re: The concept of democracy
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2007, 03:01:46 AM »
That is a Makhloket between the Ibn Ezra, and the Abarbanel on side, who hold that a weak Sanhedrin that appoints dictators as needed, like in the time of the Shoftim.

The Rambam and Sefer HaChinuch hold that a Malkhut(Kingship) that rules with the Sanhedrin with specific powers given to each is the correct system.

Mind you this is on the national level local government is Democratic


Could you explain what is meant by Sanhedrin?

Offline kahaneloyalist

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Re: The concept of democracy
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2007, 04:25:07 PM »
The Sanhedrin is a body of the 70 greatest Jewish sages of the day.
"For it is through the mercy of fools that all Justice is lost"
Ramban

Offline q_q_

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Re: The concept of democracy
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2007, 10:31:35 PM »
That is a Makhloket between the Ibn Ezra, and the Abarbanel on side, who hold that a weak Sanhedrin that appoints dictators as needed, like in the time of the Shoftim.

The Rambam and Sefer HaChinuch hold that a Malkhut(Kingship) that rules with the Sanhedrin with specific powers given to each is the correct system.

Mind you this is on the national level local government is Democratic

What do they do if the dictator goes out of control?

Didn't G_d counsel against having Kings some time after the book of Judges?

I think G-d appoints the king, with some sign.
It'd be a good one to ask askmoses.com, if you get a good rabbi! (if you use it enough you'll know who is good!)

BTW, there is some audio about it here...
http://www.dovidgottlieb.com/Rabbi_Gottlieb_Tapes.html
under Democracy 1 and 2.
As you say, a Torah state with a king, is not democracy
Prophets , The King, the Sanhedrin each have their role.