Exodus 4:24?

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

Someone asked about this... Why was HaShem going to kill Moses? What do the Rabbis say?


.24 And it came to pass on the way at the lodging-place, that the LORD met him, and sought to kill him.

[Dr. Dan]

what happened on Exodus 4:23 and 4:22 and 4:21.. How about that whole section so we can understand why it's written that way.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

I think it might of been because of Zipporah and he had not circumcised their son....

EXODUS CHAPTER 4

1 And Moses answered and said: 'But, behold, they will not believe me, nor hearken unto my voice; for they will say: The LORD hath not appeared unto thee.' 2 And the LORD said unto him: 'What is that in thy hand?' And he said: 'A rod.' 3 And He said: 'Cast it on the ground.' And he cast it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from before it.4 And the LORD said unto Moses: 'Put forth thy hand, and take it by the tail—and he put forth his hand, and laid hold of it, and it became a rod in his hand5 that they may believe that the LORD, the God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath appeared unto thee.' 6 And the LORD said furthermore unto him: 'Put now thy hand into thy bosom.' And he put his hand into his bosom; and when he took it out, behold, his hand was leprous, as white as snow.7 And He said: 'Put thy hand back into thy bosom.—And he put his hand back into his bosom; and when he took it out of his bosom, behold, it was turned again as his other flesh.—8 And it shall come to pass, if they will not believe thee, neither hearken to the voice of the first sign, that they will believe the voice of the latter sign. 9 And it shall come to pass, if they will not believe even these two signs, neither hearken unto thy voice, that thou shalt take of the water of the river, and pour it upon the dry land; and the water which thou takest out of the river shall become blood upon the dry land.' 10 And Moses said unto the LORD: 'Oh Lord, I am not a man of words, neither heretofore, nor since Thou hast spoken unto Thy servant; for I am slow of speech, and of a slow tongue.' 11 And the LORD said unto him: 'Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh a man dumb, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? is it not I the LORD? 12 Now therefore go, and I will be with thy mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt speak.'13 And he said: 'Oh Lord, send, I pray Thee, by the hand of him whom Thou wilt send.' 14 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Moses, and He said: 'Is there not Aaron thy brother the Levite? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee; and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart. 15 And thou shalt speak unto him, and put the words in his mouth; and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do. 16 And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people; and it shall come to pass, that he shall be to thee a mouth, and thou shalt be to him in God's stead. 17 And thou shalt take in thy hand this rod, wherewith thou shalt do the signs.'

18 And Moses went and returned to  a Jethro his father-in-law, and said unto him: 'Let me go, I pray thee, and return unto my brethren that are in Egypt, and see whether they be yet alive.' And Jethro said to Moses: p. 69 'Go in peace.' 19 And the LORD said unto Moses in Midian: 'Go, return into Egypt; for all the men are dead that sought thy life.' 20 And Moses took his wife and his sons, and set them upon an ass, and he returned to the land of Egypt; and Moses took the rod of God in his hand. 21 And the LORD said unto Moses: 'When thou goest back into Egypt, see that thou do before Pharaoh all the wonders which I have put in thy hand; but I will harden his heart, and he will not let the people go. 22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh: Thus saith the LORD: Israel is My son, My firstborn. 23 And I have said unto thee: Let My son go, that he may serve Me; and thou hast refused to let him go. Behold, I will slay thy son, thy first-born.'—24 And it came to pass on the way at the lodging-place, that the LORD met him, and sought to kill him. 25 Then Zipporah took a flint, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet; and she said: Surely a bridegroom of blood art thou to me.' 26 So He let him alone. Then she said: 'A bridegroom of blood in regard of the circumcision.'

27 And the LORD said to Aaron: 'Go into the wilderness to meet Moses.' And he went, and met him in the mountain of God, and kissed him. 28 And Moses told Aaron all the words of the LORD wherewith He had sent him, and all the signs wherewith He had charged him. 29 And Moses and Aaron went and gathered together, all the elders of the children of Israel. 'And Aaron spoke all the words which the LORD had spoken unto Moses, and did the signs in the sight of the people. 31 And the people believed; and when they heard that the LORD had remembered the children of Israel, and that He had seen their affliction, then they bowed their heads and worshipped.

[Israel Chai]

He was going to kill his son, not him. His father in law was like the pope of all types of idolatry in the world, and wanted Moses son to work for him, so he didn't want him to be circumcised, and Hashem knew if he wasn't, he'd be an extremely evil person, but then Moses' wife circumcised her son at the last second, and the angel didn't have to kill him.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

That's really good! That makes total sense!

[muman613]

http://www.jewishanswers.org/?p=2407

Moses and His Uncircumcised Son

Question: Why was G-d trying to kill Moses (Exodus 4:24-26) on his return to Egypt with his wife and son? Was it due to him not circumcising his son yet?

Answer: Moses was in a bit of a quandary – his new born son was due to have his circumcision on the same day that G-d commanded Moses to return to Egypt – There were 3 options:

a) Moses could have circumcised his son and left for Egypt immediately – but traveling within 3 days of the circumcision would be dangerous for the baby’s health

b) He could have performed the circumcision and then waited for 3 days until the baby was out of danger, but that would delay carrying out G-d’s command to return to Egypt.

c) He could begin traveling, thus fulfilling G-d’s command and then perform the circumcision at an inn along the way.

Moses’ choice of the 3rd option seems to be a reasonable compromise and its hard to understand how that choice would warrant a death sentence. Thus the Midrash tells us that the real reason for G-d’s anger was that when Moses arrived at an inn, he first involved himself getting settled in, rather than immediately performing the circumcision.

Yours sincerely,
Ari Lobel

[muman613]

http://www.jewishanswers.org/?p=1424

Moses, Circumcision, and Penalty of Death
Please explain Exodus 4:24 to 4:27. Thanks

The Torah describes a very unusual course of events in these passages. Moses stops off at an inn on his way back to Egypt. Suddenly, we find that G-d seeks to kill him, and that Zipporah, the wife of Moses, averts this attack by quickly circumcising their son, and touching the removed foreskin to her husband’s feet. Zipporah cries out, “You caused my bridegroom’s bloodshed.” He (the angel) releases Moses, and Zipporah cries out, “A bridegroom’s bloodshed was because of circumcision”.

The commentary on the Artscroll Stone Chumash explains this episode so beautifully that I thought to quote part of it:

Moses set out for Egypt with his family, including his newborn son, who had not yet been circumcised, and, because he was unconcerned about performing the circumcision in time, an angel was about to kill him. R’ Yose taught: Heaven forbid that Moses did not care about the circumcision. He was faced with a dilemma. Should he perform the circumcision before he went, and then take the child with him? – But the infant would be in danger for the first three days after the circumcision! Should he perform the circumcision and delay the trip for three days? – But G-d had commanded him to go! He decided to travel immediately [since G-d knew about the baby when He commanded him to go]; nevertheless he was held culpable because, when they arrived at an inn, he began making arrangements for his lodging instead of performing the circumcision without delay (Rashi from Nedarim 31b-32a). Even though he would have had to resume his trip to Egypt after the circumcision – thus putting the infant into new danger and justifying further delay – the inn was close enough to Egypt that the short trip would not endanger the child’s health (Ran, ibid).

An angel grasped Moses in such a way as to make Zipporah understand that the danger had been caused by Moses’ failure to circumcise the baby. Seeing that her husband was about to die because of his sin of omission, Zipporah circumcised the child, saving Moses’ life.

Although failure to perform a circumcision does not incur the death penalty, the most righteous people, such as Moses, are held to a higher standard of Divine accountability (Maharsha).


Yochai Robkin
Project Genesis

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

See Frog, you have something good, you just spread light to two people, and some. I have been trying to get a Christian to read the Torah more. Then he came asked me about something I never even noticed. I didn't have a clue.

Thanks!

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

Thanks Muman!

[Dr. Dan]

Good ask jtf question.

It's not the simple answer which gets to me. It's why all of a sudden at this point of the story was it mentioned. What is the deeper meaning? 

What does circumcision have to do with this important quest to save Israelites with Gd's miracle? 

It's like "get ready and go and fight pharaoh. Oh and go circumcise your son or else I'll kill you." 

[muman613]

Good ask jtf question.

It's not the simple answer which gets to me. It's why all of a sudden at this point of the story was it mentioned. What is the deeper meaning? 

What does circumcision have to do with this important quest to save Israelites with Gd's miracle? 

It's like "get ready and go and fight pharaoh. Oh and go circumcise your son or else I'll kill you."

I suspect the answer is simple...

Hashem was establishing a relationship with Moses. At the burning bush Moshe was a bit reluctant to go on the mission which Hashem gave him. Hashems previous relationship with Abraham was one in which Abraham would do what Hashem said without asking many questions, to the point of bringing Yitzak to the akedah, and Abraham passed the ten tests which were presented to him. Hashem commanded Moses to circumcise his son, so this was a test to see if Moses would do what he was commanded to do.

Many times the Torah relates 'G-d spoke to Moses saying, speak to the Children of Israel, X Y & Z... And Moses did as Hashem commanded him...' This is because Moses was acting in the name of Hashem... When Moses deviated from the plan (except for the incident of breaking the tablets which Hashem approved of) he was rebuked. Remember the incident of the 'hitting of the rock' which seems to be a small transgression, yet for Moses was the reason his lifes dream of entering the land of Israel was denied.

Moses was being tested and if he was unable to carry out Hashems word, he would be destroyed...

[muman613]

This explanation is similar to my explanation (I believe)...


http://www.shemayisrael.com/parsha/solomon/archives/shemos68.htm

As Moses followed G-d's call to return to Egypt from his refuge in Midyan, in order to lead the Exodus:

G-d encountered (Moses) in a… lodging, and wanted to kill him. Zippora (Moses' wife) took a sharp stone and cut of the foreskin of his son… (4:24-25).

This very sudden incident moves the story into different direction. The narrative relates how G-d appeared to Moses with directives to promote and lead the Exodus. Moses views his Call from G-d with apprehension:

(a) 'Who am I that I should go before Pharaoh, and take the Israelites out of Egypt?' (3:11)

(b) 'The (Israelites) will not believe me, and they will not listen to my voice' (4:1).

(c) 'I am not a speaker… I am heavy of mouth and heavy of speech' (4:10).

(d) 'Please G-d: send me through whoever you will send' (4:13).

In each case, Moses - 'the humblest of all people' (Num. 12:3) - was entreated by G-d to act against his own nature of reticence and humility. Each time, G-d reassures him - which keeps him on his mission ultimately leading to the foundation of the Israelites as a 'People treasured above all peoples' and a 'Holy Nation' (19:5-6). And Moses, as always, acceded to G-d's guarantee however anxious he might have been.

Yet Moses' omission in circumcising his own son - when he was far away from contact with his own people, incurred G-d's displeasure to the degree that 'He met (Moses) and wished to kill him'. There is no death penalty or even excision for non-circumcision on the part of the father (Gen. 17:12-14). Why was G-d prepared to do just that to Moses?

In response, the Maharal brings the following insight into circumcision. He relates it to the natural order of the Creation. That involves cycles of seven, such as seven days of the week, and seven years of the Shemitta agricultural cycle. In this context, the number eight suggests going 'beyond the limitations of nature'. By commanding the Israelites to circumcise male children on the eighth day, G-d teaches that one's ability to remove the barriers to spiritual ascent to transcend the natural order of life. Nevertheless, G-d gives Man the ability to do it, and since he can, he must.

G-d, as we have noted, commanded Moses to go beyond the limits of human nature. He was to suspend nature with His support and collaboration in effecting the miracles leading to, and accompanying the Exodus. But G-d required Moses' support, as it were. Moses, with misgivings, conceded G-d's demand to act publicly to act on His behalf. Would his private life match his public life? He had not 'suspended his nature' by going out of his way to circumcise his son as soon as it was feasible. He could not expect G-d to go out of His way if he would not do the same. And that was the lesson that G-d taught Moses… through his wife Zippora… so that when he subsequently arrived in Egypt 'the people believed…' (4:31).

[Israel Chai]

Good ask jtf question.

It's not the simple answer which gets to me. It's why all of a sudden at this point of the story was it mentioned. What is the deeper meaning? 

What does circumcision have to do with this important quest to save Israelites with Gd's miracle? 

It's like "get ready and go and fight pharaoh. Oh and go circumcise your son or else I'll kill you."

One kosher Jew came before the entire Jewish people.

[muman613]

This article is interesting in relation to this question...

http://www.torah.org/learning/ravfrand/5759/yisro.html

Accepting Torah As A Command Rather Than As A Choice

The Torah teaches that Moshe's son was called Gershom "because he said, 'I was a stranger (Ger) in a foreign land'" [Shmos 18:3]. The other [son] was called Eliezer "for the G-d of my father has come to my aid (Ezer) and he has saved me from the sword of Pharoh" [Shmos 18:4]. The Baal HaTurim is bothered by the change of wording between these two verses. Why does the reason for naming the first son Gershom contain the extra expression "because he said" (ki amar)?

The Baal HaTurim relates a fascinating comment, based on a Medrash in Parshas Shmos. The Medrash says there that when Moshe asked Yisro for permission to marry his daughter Tzipporah, Yisro agreed, on condition that their first-born son would be a priest to Avodah Zarah [Idolatry]. The Medrash says that Moshe Rabbeinu accepted this condition.

The Baal HaTurim here in Yisro, and in Shmos, explains that when Gershom was born, Moshe Rabbeinu purposely did not circumcise him. An Angel came to kill Moshe for this negligence. At that point Tzipporah released him from his condition and circumcised Gershom.

The extra words "because he said" are Moshe's explanation. "Do you know why I had to wait before circumcising my son Gershom?" "Because he said, 'I was a stranger in a foreign land.'" In other words, the reason was why I had to delay circumcising Gershom was because I was a stranger in a foreign land, and therefore I was forced into Yisro's terrible condition before I could marry my wife.

Perhaps we have heard of fathers-in-law demanding strange things from their prospective son-in-laws, but to make such a demand -- that his grandchild should be an idol worshipper -- and for Moshe to accept such a condition is hard to fathom. The Ba'al HaTurim explains Moshe's calculation. Moshe believed that this was the way to bring Yisro to Teshuva. He felt that as a result of marrying Tzipporah, even though doing so meant agreeing to this terrible condition, ultimately Yisro would "come around". Nonetheless, Moshe Rabbeinu was punished for agreeing to such a condition and his own grandson became an idolater [Shoftim 18:30; see commentaries there].

There is another aspect of this Medrash that is hard to understand. The Medrash says that Yisro demanded that condition -- that his grandson be dedicated to Avodah Zara -- after Yisro himself had already given up on Avodah Zara. It is taught that Yisro was a great man of truth. He traveled throughout the world searching for the truth by experimenting with all types of Avodah Zara. Yisro finally determined that it was all nothing. He relinquished his priesthood and renounced Avodah Zara. Yet, according to this Medrash, even after this point in Yisro's life, he still demanded that his grandson should become an idolater. This is wondrous! If someone is a man of truth, who "tried it all out," and determined that it was false, then how can he come back and ask that his grandson should be an idolater? It does not make any sense!

The Mir Rosh Yeshiva, Rav Chaim Shmuelevitz zt"l, says that Yisro was indeed a truth seeker, but he made a big mistake. Yisro believed that the proper method for arriving at the truth was through the process that he had used to arrive at the truth. Yisro reasoned "I did not discover the truth as a result of someone forcing it down my throat. I chose the truth. I traveled around and tasted everything and came to the conclusion through my own free will and my own convictions that Judaism is the true religion. Certainly I know that G-d is True, but I want my grandson to have that same beautiful experience of tasting things and seeing other possibilities. If in the end he too will choose Judaism, that will be wonderful. But I do not want him brought up in a house of Judaism, which would preclude him from CHOOSING Judaism -- since it would be forced upon him. G-d forbid we do not want him to be forced. We want him to pick it of his own free will."

This means that Yisro was (l'havdil elef havdolos) a "sixties person". In the sixties we had these kind of people that refused to take anything for granted. Everyone had to experiment and do his or her own thing. So even though Yisro had personally found the truth, he wanted his grandson to find the truth by himself, just as he (Yisro) had done.

This, says the Mir Rosh Yeshiva, goes against what Judaism is all about. A basic fact of Judaism is that we are servants of G-d. The highest level that a Jew can reach is not that he does Mitzvos out of his own free will, but that he does Mitzvos because he realizes that this is what G-d wills. He realizes that G-d is the Master and he is the servant. "I do Mitzvos, not necessarily because I WANT to do them, but because I HAVE to do them." Judaism is about being a metzuveh v'oseh (one who is commanded and therefore observes). We do not do Mitzvos because they SEEM right, they SEEM ethical, or they SEEM moral. We do Mitzvos because we KNOW and accept that they are G-d's commandments.
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[Dr. Dan]

I like this previous post by muman.

This is how the Israelites accepted Torah. No questions. Just said they would do it.